Thai pm verses farangs

[mrvietnam2001]

Mr Bush,

Please resign.

Vote Libertarian

http://www.lp.org

http://www.fff.org

Mr Vietnam  

[Pinkster]

In my experiance the 'vote' dosnt matter  

[mrvietnam2001]

Pinkster, I don't know what "your experience" has to do with it but if you are implying that voting has no meaning, I would be inclined to agree to a point with that statement.

Further, I believe that if the democrats, republicans et'al believed that a threat to the power structure would be possible by a large turnout of people actually voting en masse for the party that most closely resembles the greatness of freedom and the Constitution ( ie: the LP), they would find a way to ban voting altogether.

My point therefore is to hopefully create that wave and let the inevitable happen as soon as possible.

Then we'll see what we'll see.

Mr Vietnam  

[Pepe']

GW Bush jr.  I know you were there in spirit. LOL.  Thanks for the additional perspective/clarification and the friendly welcome to the board.

After many extended trips to Thailand now that I am considering moving there I am having some second thoughts based on some experiences I had during my last trip.

Previously my trips had always been for "pleasure" down south in the islands.

This last trip was all business.  My wifes' mom just finished a three story commercial building.  We are preparing to build a 49 room studio apartment building in Samutsakorn.  During a walk through on the first building I saw a few major problems and pointed them out to my wife to relay to her mom.

I come from a family of builders and was in the business with my father and grandfather in New York.  I know commercial and residential construction from top to bottom.

When the problems were pointed out the builder almost walked off the job.  We were considering using him for our project.  Needless to say we will be getting numerous other bids.

Any reccomendations?

I was told by my wife it was better to say nothing unless it was directly my business.  That is if I was paying for the job.

I was warned by by brother inlaw, originally from the UK, who has been doing business in Thailand for about 6 years how to deal with Thais.  The concept of "face" and how no can mean yes and yes can mean no etc, etc..

I apparantly made several major faux pas despite what I thought was my best attempt to communicate in a polite and straightforward manner.  I definitely didn't make any new friends and came away with a suprising culture shock.

I thought I knew how to behave but my attemtps to communicate my concerns about the job based on my extensive experiene were considered simply bragging on my part.  It was bewildering to say the least.  

My conclusion for now is as I was advised, just always smile and say crap or nothing.  

It's going to be tough though when a larger project gets rolling and there's a 100 grand plus on the line.

Any input would be appreciated.  

 

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is it Bud ???    

[mrvietnam2001]

Hi Pepe,

Be VERY exact with your specifications and what you want, and expect up front.

I'm nowhere near what you're contemplating but I did have a building renovated in Vietnam and that included a knock down of a bathroom and complete renovations including electric, plumbing, glass block, marble etc.

The Viets are way more dilligent in this but a very similar situation exists with the saving face crap. I found that doing all the in your face negotiations before anything started or was paid worked wonders.

A similar scenario on a much smaller scale existed for me in South Thailand but it involved an American contractor person so it worked out a lot easier, but again, that was only simple stuff ( booster pump for the plumbing, new a/c installed, screwed up german water heater needed fixing ( this was a trip and a half), concrete stairway built on side going down the mountain. The phones were always problematic.

Tit

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam  

[Pepe']

The Viets are way more dilligent in this but a very similar situation exists with the saving face crap. I found that doing all the in your face negotiations before anything started or was paid worked wonders.

Mr V,

Thanks, I think that is a crucial piece of information.  Get everything clear and on the table while they are still waiting for your money/contract.

[mrvietnam2001]

Pepe, better off throwing all the negatives out right upfront rather than letting that be an "excuse" for them later on ( he's such a rude man etc etc).

Good luck and remember, they've been negotiating for thousands of years before we were even a twinkle on the planet.

Good luck and regards

Mr Vietnam  

[taxexile]

my suggestions would be

if your wife(thai) is a competent person then let her do all the negotiations,and let her  be the one in direct contact with the builders or foreman or architect's man on site.

you stay home in front of the tv and just sign the cheques.and if possible

if possible,dont even let them know a foriegner with $$$$$$$ is involved.

become as hands off as possible i.e.invisible.

but do all your direction through your wife.

face is  important to thais and a "new york attitude",whilst appropriate for new york,will cause all sorts of problems here.

a disagreement with the foreman in front of his crew would be a big setback.

i'm about to start a house on a difficult site in samui,and i would love to be fully involved with it during the building,however i'm under strict insructions from mrs taxexile to keep it shut or go fishing or preferably both whilst the construction is ongoing.

my inspections will only be allowed in the dead of night.

good luck.

[Begs]

Words of Wisdom Tax.

 

[Butterfly]

In my experiance the 'vote' dosnt matter  

It's who does the vote counting that is important, not the vote itself.

Mr V is a Libertarian !!!! OMG, this is worse than being a NeoCon. Couldn't be further to the right. I am not surprised.

[Butterfly]

It's going to be tough though when a larger project gets rolling and there's a 100 grand plus on the line.

Any input would be appreciated.  

 

If you are trying to have US standards to build contruction here, you can start packing up now. Look how buildings age here ? between the weather conditions and the poor construction materials, don't hold your breath for high quality standard. The truth is that it's VERY difficult to build in Thailand, even for locals.

Now having your wife in charge is going to be worse news. As a polite woman, she might have a hard time to raise her voice with the developer, and if she has never conducted projects like this before, I don't see how she is going to catch any early problems.

Most Thai developers walk out if they don't have their way. A sad fact, but they are in charge, so you are their bitch. Having everything planned before construction begins is a good start, but that won't stop the developer from messing up the construction if he is not good. Also Thais are very good at getting paid for little work they do. If you don't give their "minimum", they will walk out.

[taxexile]

she might have a hard time to raise her voice with the developer,

have to disagree there butterfly,

thai women can certainly make their point when required to do so.and they certainly know how to deal with thai men better than falangs do.

this country is run by women,it just doesn't seem like it is.

:laugh:  :laugh:

generally speaking thai women are the most capable women i have ever encountered,and can usually get things done with the minimum of fuss and bluster.

[Butterfly]

she might have a hard time to raise her voice with the developer,

have to disagree there butterfly,

thai women can certainly make their point when required to do so.and they certainly know how to deal with thai men better than falangs do.

this country is run by women,it just doesn't seem like it is.

:laugh:  :laugh:

generally speaking thai women are the most capable women i have ever encountered,and can usually get things done with the minimum of fuss and bluster.

Well, not all Thai women are alike. Did she ever managed projects like this ? if she has no skills in that department, what are you going to do when things will go wrong because you were not there to catch them early.

[taxexile]

well..........yes .... and no ........and maybe.

its going to be a bit of a gamble for anyone to invest big money here in a building project ,and at the end i suppose you just have to go on your gut feeling and hope.

but if you are going to let your wife take charge,just make sure she is not taking advice from the fortune teller,as a lot of thais are wont to do.

because once those characters get involved,then all reason flies out of the window !!

[ChiangMaiThai]

A long time ago there was a place where college students, dope dealers, dropouts, beaver hunters, heavy drinkers, players and wheeler dealers would go in South Florida. It's called Ft Lauderdale and it's where I spend over half my life.

After hurricane Andrew wiped out the beach, over a billion dollars were spent rebuilding and the locals as well as business people decided we were really sick and tired of half crazed no money loonies coming to our fair city and certainly we weren't about to continue with these people after having to ante up over a Bil for the beach.

So all kinds of way out laws were enacted including an "open container" law which meant that if you were seen east of federal highway in Lauderdale with an open can of beer, or a mixed drink, you would be arrested. We even had horse cops walk theu traffic so as to look into the cars to see if anyone was drinking.

There were all kinds of complaints from the entire country.

But soon all the classes on the lower socio-economic scale were gone and now, even a tiny 2 bedroom 2 bath condo will cost you a couple hundred grand. Money moved in and it's now a very fashionable high end city with houses near the beach selling for upwards of 20-30 million dollars.

Does anybody care about the loss of the guys and gals who can't afford it? Not hardly.

And that's the way it is. Get it?

Mr Vietnam  

Oh, I get it. So what we need to do is separate the haves from the have nots. So those with money don't have to think about or be bothered by those without. Of course there will be no ramifications. No fear. No anger. No greed. No violence. No racism. No hatred. No ignorance.

No, no ramifications at all. Avoid taking the wrong exit on the highway. Double lock your doors. Don't talk to strangers. Get yourself a beer. Select a channel. Sit back and relax. All is well. And that is the way it is.

[Pepe']

Many thanks for all the valuable input.  I glad because all of you guys are confirming and clarifying what I already have been told and suspected.

My wife is very competant and assertive in her own right.  She was top sales person with Mercedes Benz in BKK for many years.  She also managed a couple of the larger hotels as well.

However this is very different than being a project manager on a commercial construction site.

As fer as materials go.  "I think" concrete is concrete.  As long as the proportions are right and the footings are correct.

I allways over build, especially foundations so heavier gauge rebar and more of it would be the order of the day.

I want to bring in trucks to pour but her mom has my wife convinced it's cheaper and just as good to have the laborers mix it in batches on the deck.

After reading your recent posts. I'm becoming convinced that I must be there and oversee this from a distance.

Oh yeah I also thought about this forieng $$$ being involved idea as a possible problem.

Got to go.  I do appreciate the ongoing discussion and looking forward to meet some of you guys soon.

Did somebody say "New York attitude." Are you saying I got a New York attitude?!  LOL  

I love it...

[plachon]

A long time ago there was a place where college students, dope dealers, dropouts, beaver hunters, heavy drinkers, players and wheeler dealers would go in South Florida. It's called Ft Lauderdale and it's where I spend over half my life.

After hurricane Andrew wiped out the beach, over a billion dollars were spent rebuilding and the locals as well as business people decided we were really sick and tired of half crazed no money loonies coming to our fair city and certainly we weren't about to continue with these people after having to ante up over a Bil for the beach.

So all kinds of way out laws were enacted including an "open container" law which meant that if you were seen east of federal highway in Lauderdale with an open can of beer, or a mixed drink, you would be arrested. We even had horse cops walk theu traffic so as to look into the cars to see if anyone was drinking.

There were all kinds of complaints from the entire country.

But soon all the classes on the lower socio-economic scale were gone and now, even a tiny 2 bedroom 2 bath condo will cost you a couple hundred grand. Money moved in and it's now a very fashionable high end city with houses near the beach selling for upwards of 20-30 million dollars.

Does anybody care about the loss of the guys and gals who can't afford it? Not hardly.

And that's the way it is. Get it?

Mr Vietnam  

Oh, I get it. So what we need to do is separate the haves from the have nots. So those with money don't have to think about or be bothered by those without. Of course there will be no ramifications. No fear. No anger. No greed. No violence. No racism. No hatred. No ignorance.

No, no ramifications at all. Avoid taking the wrong exit on the highway. Double lock your doors. Don't talk to strangers. Get yourself a beer. Select a channel. Sit back and relax. All is well. And that is the way it is.

Steady there CMT, or you too might get yourself on Mr V's "must ignore list", which as everyone knows, is worse than being kicked out of kindergarten or heaven forbid, sent to Coventry. Just don't go and blow it with the man from Nam.

[ChiangMaiThai]

A long time ago there was a place where college students, dope dealers, dropouts, beaver hunters, heavy drinkers, players and wheeler dealers would go in South Florida. It's called Ft Lauderdale and it's where I spend over half my life.

After hurricane Andrew wiped out the beach, over a billion dollars were spent rebuilding and the locals as well as business people decided we were really sick and tired of half crazed no money loonies coming to our fair city and certainly we weren't about to continue with these people after having to ante up over a Bil for the beach.

So all kinds of way out laws were enacted including an "open container" law which meant that if you were seen east of federal highway in Lauderdale with an open can of beer, or a mixed drink, you would be arrested. We even had horse cops walk theu traffic so as to look into the cars to see if anyone was drinking.

There were all kinds of complaints from the entire country.

But soon all the classes on the lower socio-economic scale were gone and now, even a tiny 2 bedroom 2 bath condo will cost you a couple hundred grand. Money moved in and it's now a very fashionable high end city with houses near the beach selling for upwards of 20-30 million dollars.

Does anybody care about the loss of the guys and gals who can't afford it? Not hardly.

And that's the way it is. Get it?

Mr Vietnam  

Oh, I get it. So what we need to do is separate the haves from the have nots. So those with money don't have to think about or be bothered by those without. Of course there will be no ramifications. No fear. No anger. No greed. No violence. No racism. No hatred. No ignorance.

No, no ramifications at all. Avoid taking the wrong exit on the highway. Double lock your doors. Don't talk to strangers. Get yourself a beer. Select a channel. Sit back and relax. All is well. And that is the way it is.

Steady there CMT, or you too might get yourself on Mr V's "must ignore list", which as everyone knows, is worse than being kicked out of kindergarten or heaven forbid, sent to Coventry. Just don't go and blow it with the man from Nam.

Thanks. Just calling it as I see it. If I am ignored by Mr. Nam, so be it. But any one with open eyes would have to see some truth in what I have written.

[pnustedt]

As fer as materials go.  "I think" concrete is concrete.  As long as the proportions are right and the footings are correct.

But you won't know that the mix is right unless you are on site counting every shovel full.

I would also make staged payments on completion of certain levels of construction - perhaps pay for the materials yourself and get the builder to pay for wages. That way you can be more confident of getting what you want.

This thread seems to have gone way off topic doesn't it?

[Butterfly]

Oh, I get it. So what we need to do is separate the haves from the have nots. So those with money don't have to think about or be bothered by those without. Of course there will be no ramifications. No fear. No anger. No greed. No violence. No racism. No hatred. No ignorance.

No, no ramifications at all. Avoid taking the wrong exit on the highway. Double lock your doors. Don't talk to strangers. Get yourself a beer. Select a channel. Sit back and relax. All is well. And that is the way it is.

You should know that Mr V is a libertarian. This alone should tell you how far on the right he is. I am not surprised of his comments. Kind of sad to see people that ignorant politically today.

[Butterfly]

PS Is that job offer you once made me still open by the way? :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :cool:

What ?? you actually did a bid on his pet websites ? man, what were you thinking ?  

[Pepe']

But you won't know that the mix is right unless you are on site counting every shovel full.

This thread seems to have gone way off topic doesn't it

Pnustedt,

Interesting thought but scary to think that you have to count shovels to get a good mix.  How about footings fondation and soil testing.

There are two very different opinions now.  

One person said remain invisible and as separate as is possible, visiting the job only at night.  I thought on one hand this was good advice.

Now though I'm not sure.  Definitely have something to think about.

The good news is that my wife's cousin is major local polititian

and her brother high up in the police department.

Apparently they over saw her mom's last job from a distance and everything went fine.

Who really knows though unless core samples are taken from concrete and commpession tested.  I don't believe that soil testing was done.

I thought the business  area was a good place to post this topic initially.  If I have more questions maybey it would be better to start a new "Building in Thailand" thread.

Pepe'

But you won't know that the mix is right unless you are on site counting every shovel full.

This thread seems to have gone way off topic doesn't it

Pnustedt,

Interesting thought but scary to think that you have to count shovels to get a good mix.  How about footings fondation and soil testing.

There are two very different opinions now.  

One person said remain invisible and as separate as is possible, visiting the job only at night.  I thought on one hand this was good advice.

Now though I'm not sure.  Definitely have something to think about.

The good news is that my wife's cousin is major local polititian

and her brother high up in the police department.

Apparently they over saw her mom's last job from a distance and everything went fine.

Who really knows though unless core samples are taken from concrete and commpession tested.  I don't believe that soil testing was done.

I thought the business  area was a good place to post this topic initially.  If I have more questions maybey it would be better to start a new "Building in Thailand" thread.

Pepe'

[mrvietnam2001]

Pepe,

remember they do NOT use whatever chemical is used to prevent cracking either. I don't know why, other than cost (?)

More good luck to ya!

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam