Smoking Ban Pattaya

[homeless007]

Hi there

Anybody out there who knows the details of this Smoking Ban Law? What about outdoor restaurants? What about pool areas in condos or hotels? What about beer bars? There seems to be a total mess here in Pattaya!

You call City Hall or other Hotlines, you get conflicting info!

Please anybody clarify!

Thanks Tom

[sweetchariot]

There was alot of confusion over this in February when it was initially announced.

Basically the military Junta introduced a law that was to become effective from the 17th Feb banning smoking only in aircon establishments. Then the newly elected government decided to steal their thunder by introducing a further reaching law banning smoking in all public places from the 11th Feb.

Nobody really knew which was correct, so most places introduced an all out ban from 11th Feb, which lasted approx 36 hours until the Government declared the would not be fining anyone until the 31st May, to give them a few months to get used to the idea. That was seen as a green light by almost everywhere to allow smoking until the 31st.

Officially the law introduced by the current government (ie ban in all public places) superceeded the air-con only ban, and should be the one in force, but as you said nobody seems to know, especially the Police!

It seems that unofficially they are only worried about air-con places, but it's fascinating to see the different interpretations of the law, some outdoor places have bans, some won't allow you to smoke sat at the bar, and others just ignore it.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out, I think that once the initial fuss dies down it will only be air-con places in busy areas like Walking Street that will enforce it, plus air-con restaurants (which I agree with even as a fervent pro smoker).

[Guest Reimar]

I'll move this thread to the Pattaya Forum.

[Crow Boy]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

[begsaresponse]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

[sweetchariot]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

I see a few bars have put notices up, informing the fine amounts and stating that the customer will be held liable for BOTH. Not sure if it would stick legally, but might be enough to deter some of us naughty smokers from trying to have a sly one.

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

I think he was talking about his own bar ooop north (CM is it?)

EDIT/ BTW, before you accuse me of posting whilst pished at 2-40am, I haven't had a drink tonight, just got woken up by a bloody big storm and can't get back to sleep now

Edited June 3, 2008 by sweetchariot

[Mobi]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

The Office Bar in Bangkok (soi 33) has a sign along one side of the bar saying that smoking is permitted there but that smokers are liable for the fine. It doesn't spell out how much is the fine, and in particular that the smoker would be liable for the bar owner's fine of 20,000 Baht. There are also plenty of ash trays provided on that side of the bar. The rest of the place is strictly no smoking with signs everywhere.

I find this policy very dubious, and actually quite misleading to "innocent" punters who assume it is OK to smoke.

[homeless007]

Hi everybody

Thanks for the (few) answers. I am still hoping that somebody out there might actually have the exact wording of this new law....!!!??? The handling of it by the authorities seems to be unfair towards venues that enforce the smoking ban. Is it really not possible for them to inform the millions of foreign visitors and the many foreign investors in straightforward, understandable language? Thanks for some feedback helping to answer the many questions we all seem to have.

Tom

[Basil B]

Could be a good little earner for a bar owner.

Bar cought with 5 smokers, each smoker fined 2K, bar owner fined 20k, then bar owner demands 20K from each smoker ...

BB

[Phil Conners]

Hi everybody

Thanks for the (few) answers. I am still hoping that somebody out there might actually have the exact wording of this new law....!!!??? The handling of it by the authorities seems to be unfair towards venues that enforce the smoking ban. Is it really not possible for them to inform the millions of foreign visitors and the many foreign investors in straightforward, understandable language? Thanks for some feedback helping to answer the many questions we all seem to have.

Tom

What nonsense, what is there to not understand about "NO SMOKING"?

I enjoy going out again, being able to breathe and coming home with clothes that doesn't stink like an ashtray and need to be washed twice to get it out. The few whiners who can't cut their addiction will eventually have to get used to it.

[homeless007]

Hi everybody

Thanks for the (few) answers. I am still hoping that somebody out there might actually have the exact wording of this new law....!!!??? The handling of it by the authorities seems to be unfair towards venues that enforce the smoking ban. Is it really not possible for them to inform the millions of foreign visitors and the many foreign investors in straightforward, understandable language? Thanks for some feedback helping to answer the many questions we all seem to have.

Tom

What nonsense, what is there to not understand about "NO SMOKING"?

I enjoy going out again, being able to breathe and coming home with clothes that doesn't stink like an ashtray and need to be washed twice to get it out. The few whiners who can't cut their addiction will eventually have to get used to it.

Hi Phil

As a non-smoker I fully agree with your points. However I would still like to know if anybody actually knows the details of this law and furthermore the enforcement, especially in Pattaya. So do certainly many legitimate business people (hotel owners, restaurant owners etc.) I am not talking about the average beer bar owners who probably could care less...Looking around Pattaya there seem to be very few places that have adjusted yet...There is smoking on every corner in almost every kind of public area and business. So, since this has been going on since February or longer...is this another Thai joke? Anybody that can offer some facts. There must be some law professionals out there...???

Thanks. Tom

[sweetchariot]

Hi everybody

Thanks for the (few) answers. I am still hoping that somebody out there might actually have the exact wording of this new law....!!!??? The handling of it by the authorities seems to be unfair towards venues that enforce the smoking ban. Is it really not possible for them to inform the millions of foreign visitors and the many foreign investors in straightforward, understandable language? Thanks for some feedback helping to answer the many questions we all seem to have.

Tom

Which words in my first post (no. 2) did you not understand. I did alot of research back in January, and that's pretty much as concise as it gets. If some of the words were too long for you then let me know, and I will try and break them down.

I enjoy going out again, being able to breathe and coming home with clothes that doesn't stink like an ashtray and need to be washed twice to get it out. The few whiners who can't cut their addiction will eventually have to get used to it.

Enjoy it whilst it lasts Phil, cos it won't last long.

BTW, if you have noticed that much of a difference then you are spending far too long in the air conditioned 'dancing establishments'. You can keep those non smoking for the next 20 years, until I get old and sad enough to consider that an 'evening out'.

[Crow Boy]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

I am the manager - not owner

CB

[Crow Boy]

I think he was talking about his own bar ooop north (CM is it?)

In CM it has been enforced for since February.

I have now relocated to Pattaya and loving it. Still have ties up to the North including the forums there but physically in Pattaya.

CB

[Crow Boy]

To be honest as a never smoker I have a real problem with this law. It has nothing to do with reducing smoking or health related issues. It is purely in response to overseas pressure. My personal view is that smoking is a decision made by the person involved. If the person makes the decision to smoke then that is up to them. Smoking is legal and taxed by the government of the day. By making smokers second class citizens does little or nothing to reduce it. Education and taxation of the product will suffice. I hope that upcoming generations will choose not to smoke but for existing smokers it is harsh. I set up areas in every bar I have worked for the last 25 years and allow smoking in some and a free air space in others. I understand and respect the fact that for many non smokers it is distasteful or even dangerous to their health to be in enclosed spaces with smokers. I don't know what the solution is but the current law makes no sense other than as a money making exercise for the police.

CB

[Phil Conners]

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

I am the manager - not owner

CB

I guess congratulations are in place ... so does that mean the Friday Night Gang have their own private hangout now? :D

I enjoy going out again, being able to breathe and coming home with clothes that doesn't stink like an ashtray and need to be washed twice to get it out. The few whiners who can't cut their addiction will eventually have to get used to it.

Enjoy it whilst it lasts Phil, cos it won't last long.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

[funfun]

"Which words in my first post (no. 2) did you not understand. I did alot of research back in January, and that's pretty much as concise as it gets. If some of the words were too long for you then let me know, and I will try and break them down."

ha ha ha ha, go back to bed, and get up out of otherside!!!

however, bang on right and Nobody knows the rules, from memory feb 11th was the start date given by health ministry or whatever and police said they would enforce it from feb 10th??

ere you round midnight sun bbq for g/prix?

chris

[begsaresponse]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

I am the manager - not owner

CB

Exactly as I thought a bit of free advertising for 'your' bar in the context of the smoking topic. Other bar owners like myself would be given a 'warning' or a 'holiday' for such a stunt!

[chuckd]

Doesn't it seem that having a smoking area in a restaurant/bar is a little like having a peeing area in a swimming pool?

[tropo]

My personal view is that smoking is a decision made by the person involved. If the person makes the decision to smoke then that is up to them. Smoking is legal and taxed by the government of the day. By making smokers second class citizens does little or nothing to reduce it.

Allowing indoor smoking turns the non-smokers into "second class citizens" who must just sit there and breathe foul air produced by the smokers.

The smokers have won this battle for many decades. It's about time non-smokers had a win.

3 cheers for non-smoking laws!

[sungod]

The OP asked if anyone had clarification on the law, thats all. Could we please not turn this thread into yet another smoker V non-smoker barrage of drivel.

[tropo]

The OP asked if anyone had clarification on the law, thats all. Could we please not turn this thread into yet another smoker V non-smoker barrage of drivel.

I've always found pretend-moderators to be irritating.

You can keep it on track. Good luck!

[ZZZ]

Which words in my first post (no. 2) did you not understand. I did alot of research back in January, and that's pretty much as concise as it gets. If some of the words were too long for you then let me know, and I will try and break them down.

I did not understand "all public places", does this mean I'm not allowed to smoke anywhere except for in someones private place?

In your research did you find any definition of "public places"?

[sweetchariot]

Which words in my first post (no. 2) did you not understand. I did alot of research back in January, and that's pretty much as concise as it gets. If some of the words were too long for you then let me know, and I will try and break them down.

I did not understand "all public places", does this mean I'm not allowed to smoke anywhere except for in someones private place?

In your research did you find any definition of "public places"?

It was basically means anywhere that the public converge to do business. The obvious one is bars and restaurants, but they did say that it would be extended to markets and such like. This doesn't apply to the street or beach etc, although I do believe that the public parks in Bangkok are no smoking areas.

[Pattaya_Fox]

You are correct with the point that there is a lot of confusion. The Police are interpreting the law as they see fit and many bars including the Outback are taking a safe line of no smoking at the actual bar face. We are open air but the second law says that we must provide a non smoking area and a segregated smoking zone. We, like many other bars are waiting to see how the chips fall while keeping very safe. The personal fine is 2,000 baht but the bar fine is 20,000baht for allowing smoking at the bar. No bar is willing to pay that just so that a couple of guys can have a durrie.

CB

So are you a customer at the Outback bar or one of the owners? Because you use the term "We are open air".

I am the manager - not owner

CB

Exactly as I thought a bit of free advertising for 'your' bar in the context of the smoking topic. Other bar owners like myself would be given a 'warning' or a 'holiday' for such a stunt!

May I remind all business owners, managers or entrepreneurs that advertising or promoting your business interests on this site requires a sponsorship which can be discussed by contacting [email protected].

As far as your bar begs is concerned you have been given plenty of leeway in the past and many a free plug so I don`t think that you have any reason to grumble

[homeless007]

Hi everybody

Just received some translated info for/from the Banglamung/Pattaya District. This clarifies some, but not all of the questions. May be somebody comes up with the "Original Non-Smoking" Laws they are referring to in their amendments. Supposedly most business owners in the district have received this in Thai. I brought this topic up for interested business owners and such, not to start another typical Pattaya- Falang style war of words... Thanks for the positive feedbacks. The next few weeks will show if this law has teeth or if the complying owners of affected businesses have been "fooled"....Talking to several respected Thai owners (some major Hotels i.e.) which are enforcing the ban on their premises, this might be one to stay...Sure don't mind as long as it is applied equally. Interesting to see that this whole issue started as far back as 1997 and interesting to see how it plays out…

This is a translation for reference only and individuals need to check and confirm details themselves with the rsepective authorities.

Thanks. Tom

>>>>>

Ref. Chor.Bor. 062724038 Banglamung District Office

Sukhumvit Road, Chonburi 20150

15th May, 2008

To : The Manager / The Owner of all

Ref : To provide non-smoking area

According to the announcement of The Ministry of Health No. 18 ordering all Restaurant business who sell Food, Beverage, Food & Beverage and all the Banquet Business Place” including Pub and Bar to be non-smoking area, effective from the 11th February, 2008 and will proceed according to the law with the offender from the 31st May, 2008 onwards. Therefore, all the restaurant, bar and pub business have to set up non-smoking and smoking areas as follows :-

1. All restaurants who sell Food, Beverage, Food & Beverage and Banquet Place including Pub and Bar where having air-conditioning, must make such area as non-smoking area. It is not allowed to set a smoking area in those places. The owner has to place a sign of NON-SMOKING showing in Business Place and can’t allow anybody to smoke in those areas. Furthermore, it is prohibited to have smoking availability objects around, such as ash trays or sand buck.

2. Restaurant or Banquet Place including Bar & Pub where without air-conditioning, are able to set a smoking area according to the announcement No. 9 in the Royal Gazette, Book 114, Section 88 Ngor, dated 4th November, 1997 as follows :-

Must have exhaustible system outside the building and within the smoking area with capacity at least 50 cubic foot/minute/person.

Not in the area that can disturb and nuisance to neighbors

Not in the area of entrance and exit of the place where protecting the non-smoking persons.

Not in the area where clearly seen by the clients.

For your acknowledgment to follow accordingly. Upon the due date,

the officer shall examine and proceed according to the law.

Yours Sincerely,

( Mr. Mongkon Thamkittikhun )

Banglamung Sheriff

District Health Office

Tel. 038-221925

Ref. Chor.Bor. 062724038 Banglamung District Office

Sukhumvit Road, Chonburi 20150

ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 18 B.E.2550

MINISTRY OF PUBLIC HEALTH

Subject : Designate name and type of public area where non-smoking person’s health is protected and limit some part or the whole part of such public area to smoking or non-smoking area, including the condition and the standard of smoking and non-smoking area.

According to The Non-Smoking Person’s Health Protection Act B.E. 2535

___________________________

According to the authority in section 4 (1) (2) 93) and section 15 of Health Protection for Non-Smoking Person Act B.E.2535 which is the law concerning limiting some personal right and liberty. In Section 29, 32, 33, 41 and 43 of The National Constitution , prescribed by law to enforce an action that the Minister of Public Health making announcing as follows :-

Clause 1. Abrogate the wording in (22) 22.6 of Clause 2. of the announcement of the Ministry of Public Health ( No. 17 ) B.E. 2549 concerning designating name and type of Public Area where the non-smoking person’s health is protected and limit some or the whole part of such public area to be smoking or non-smoking area, including designating the condition and standard of smoking and non-smoking area according to the Non-Smoking Person’s Health Protection Act B.E. 2535 and replaced by the following statement :-

“22.6 All place selling food, beverage, food and beverage or festal place”

Clause 2. Abrogate the wording in (2) of Clause 3. of the announcement of the Ministry of Public Health ( No. 17 ) B.E. 2549 concerning designating name and type of Public Area where the non-smoking person’s health is protected and limit some or the whole part of such public area to be smoking or non-smoking area, including designating the condition and standard of smoking and non-smoking area according to the Non-Smoking Person’s Health Protection Act B.E. 2535 and replaced by the following statement :-

“(2) Private Office only where with air-conditioning area

Clause 3. Abrogate the wording in (12) of Clause 3. of the announcement of the Ministry of Public Health ( No. 17 ) B.E. 2549 concerning designating name and type of Public Area where the non-smoking person’s health is protected and limit some or the whole part of such public area to be smoking or non-smoking area, including designating the condition and standard of smoking and non-smoking area according to the Non-Smoking Person’s Health Protection Act B.E. 2535 and replaced by the following statement :-

“(12) Public Place in Clause 2. (22) 22.1 to 22.6 everywhere except the air-conditioning area”

Clause 4. Add the following statement as No. (13 ) of Clause 3. of the announcement of the Ministry of Public Health ( No. 17 ) B.E. 2549 concerning designating name and type of Public Area where the non-smoking person’s health is protected and limit some or the whole part of such public area to be smoking or non-smoking area, including designating the condition and standard of smoking and non-smoking area according to the Non-Smoking Person’s Health Protection Act B.E. 2535 and replaced by the following statement :-

“(13) Market means places where preparing for traders to show and sell or exchange their goods, services both permanently and temporally on specific dates.”

Clause 5. This announcement will be effective after 45 days from the publishing date in the Royal Gazette.

Made on 29th November 2007

Nongkon Na. Songkla

Minister of Public Health

[ZZZ]

I'm still confused. How does this affect Beer Bars and outdoor Beer Gardens.

As they sell beverages they are included. As they don't have aircon they can have a smoking area, IF they install an exhaust system???

Does any of these regulations cover outdoor areas apart from markets or maybe they figure Beer Bars are markets

[homeless007]

I'm still confused. How does this affect Beer Bars and outdoor Beer Gardens.

As they sell beverages they are included. As they don't have aircon they can have a smoking area, IF they install an exhaust system???

Does any of these regulations cover outdoor areas apart from markets or maybe they figure Beer Bars are markets

Indeed, totally confusing......TIT

Tom

[funfun]

i think its a law with good intentions that is not easily made to fit all establisments and i think its having the same problems around the world, im 120 a day but i well understand people should not have to have it in thier face, times are a changing and i think the best you can do is seperate different areas to the inconvience of smokers buts thats just the way it is.

if you have a clear def No smoking area, thats not hidden in a toilet, but a big main part of the premises, with a smaller smoking area clearly signed and it is bieng enforced to make it fair, when the smoking police arrive im hoping common sense and fairness should hopefully get you through!

chris

[Phil Conners]

As chuckd put it so eloquently back in post #19:

Doesn't it seem that having a smoking area in a restaurant/bar is a little like having a peeing area in a swimming pool?