If Chiang Mai Is Becoming Too Busy, Noisy, Dusty ..

[sylviex]

With reference (but not reverence) to the discussion at

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...40&start=40

Where to go ?

Can we move just a few miles down the road into the countryside and expect to manage ?

Which are the best nearby towns ?

[gpdjohn]

This is good..

I just returned from Saigon, Vietnam and my ears are still ringing from all the noise..the horns from cars and motorbikes, etc.

CM is almost too quiet after that!

I love it here!

[PeaceBlondie]

Lots of us expats live in the suburbs, such as Hang Dong, San Kampaeng, San Sai, MaeJo, near Night Safari, etc. It gets quieter and less congested quickly, and further out it must be silent except for the dogs and the geckoes. But then there may be no public transport, and even a tuk-tuk or songtaew does not want to go that far. I would not want to be more than 20 minutes from a really excellent hospital.

[Bluelotus]

Faham is a nice area. Close enough to be convenient and outside of the noise / traffic zone

[sylviex]

But then there may be no public transport, and even a tuk-tuk or songtaew does not want to go that far. I would not want to be more than 20 minutes from a really excellent hospital.

Right. Both are considerations.

Can "farangs" live up the mountain, say, in some quieter place, and still be in reach of these ?

(And, am I asking in the wrong forum ?)

just returned from Saigon, Vietnam and my ears are still ringing from all the noise..the horns from cars and motorbikes, etc.

CM is almost too quiet after that!

Entirely correct. However, we all adjust to our environments and adjust our wishes accordingly. Chiang Mai does seem to be heading down the "just another big city" road awful fast, though.

[bunta71]

Just like gpdjohn says...a few days in BKK, or Saigon, Manila or other metropolises really brings out the appreciation of our dusty lil' town and it's inconsequential traffic

[tigerbeer]

i live out about 20 kms off town in san kampheng and all i hear is birds, geckos and occasional screaming from the missus wonderful place chiang mai.

[anonymouse]

I live out Doi Saket way a yellow songthaew takes about 30/40mins to get into town cost 16baht and the last one leaves Chiang Mai at 10pm. I like it out this way and it saves me from all the distractions of the big smoke

[papajohn]

Hello anony, I have lived in town for 2 years and I take offence at your slander "the big smoke". I have lived in 10 cities around the world and

find Chiang Mai the most enjoyable. If you are a country bumpkin and

can live with 25 Cock A Doodle Doos every morning at 5 AM, and dogs barking at you every 20 feet when you go for a walk in the morning,

and everybody in the village knowing your business and all about your personal life and everything you do, then you found where you belong. For me, CM Citylife is all about being where I can walk to fine resturants, entertainment, and shopping whenever I want. My morning

walk around the moat on the new walkways is so relaxing and energenic. Just to watch this lovely city come alive each morning tells

me I made the right choice to live here. I get energy from these hard working people. I know everybody has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" Chiang Mai with your personal opinions. Thanx.

[miltonbentley]

I think you have misinterpreted Anonymouse PapaJohn. Big Smoke is just a nickname Brits give to a city it doesn't imply anything derogatory.

[papajohn]

Thanx for your reply, I am not a " Brit" can you please explain what the poster was saying with the comment?

[Boksida]

Thanx for your reply, I am not a " Brit" can you please explain what the poster was saying with the comment?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Smoke

[papajohn]

I did look at the link, You are be giving CM a great lie !!!!! What is your intent?

[Rinrada]

I like it out this way and it saves me from all the distractions of the big smoke......qouote...

he is obviously refering to wot many of us who live in the REAL Smoke consider its "delights"...innit...kushty...10 Sovs, bees knees ....et al.....

[papajohn]

Not so obvious to people in the real world or is TV a " Brit" blog.

The cute expressions you folks share can be taken to mean something

more than intended to other readers here.

[miltonbentley]

I live out Doi Saket way a yellow songthaew takes about 30/40mins to get into town cost 16baht and the last one leaves Chiang Mai at 10pm. I like it out this way and it saves me from all the distractions of the big smoke biggrin.gif

Thanx for your reply, I am not a " Brit" can you please explain what the poster was saying with the comment?

Anonymous is saying that he lives out of town and although it is inexpensive to get home by bus the last one leaves fairly early. He goes on to say that he likes it as it saves him from the distractions of the city which following the reference to the time 10pm we can surmise that he is talking about the city's nightlife. The smiley face indicates that he is having a joke with us.

Not so obvious to people in the real world or is TV a " Brit" blog.

The cute expressions you folks share can be taken to mean something

more than intended to other readers here. ohmy.gif

English is an idiomatic language whose meaning cannot always be deduced from a literal definition. In this case you have got the wrong end of the stick (again not literally) by assuming that Anonymouse was being derogatory when he was not.

All countries have their own expressions and language is all the richer for it. For example a Brit is unlikely to use the word 'cute' as you have done in the above quote but we get your drift and can make a reasonable guess as to what you mean.

Keep smiling

[Ulysses G.]

Anonymouse is a good man who loves Chiang Mai and Thailand and is willing to put up with his Yank cousins if they cut him a little slack.

[papajohn]

Anonymouse is a good man who loves Chiang Mai and Thailand and is willing to put up with his Yank cousins if they cut him a little slack.

Never met the good man, he could be the next Gandi

for all I know. My point is the title of the thread is derogatory to the city and his post can easily be read

as another cheap shot. The words big smoke were not in caps or quotes to show it is a "slang" word for the city of London. We who live here are aware of

the news about the "big smoke scare" and its

impact on tourism last year. The numbers are in another thread if you care to look. The internet is a

means of information for people all over the world who are making plans for vacations. It would be

easy to scratch CM from a list of possible destinations

when they read this thread and see that the folks who live and post here have such a low opinion of the city and then you complain about TAT.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree that many tourists are scared off by Chiang Mai's unwarranted reputation for being badly polluted, and, in fact, it has badly hurt my business.

IMHO, "High Season" has shrunk from 6 months to about 3 out of 12 months because of this reputation, which makes it difficult to pay the high rents the rest of the year in the downtown area.

There are a few bad days during March and February when the hills around Chiang Mai are being burned, but not enough for tourists in normal health to avoid the place completely. We did have one particularly bad year, but that seems to be a fluke caused by unusual weather.

However, one post with a witty line is not going to make difference one way or the other, so I think that we can give anonymouse a break, but I do applaud your efforts to attract more tourists to Chiang Mai.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[cloudhopper]

Hello anony, I have lived in town for 2 years and I take offence at your slander "the big smoke". I have lived in 10 cities around the world and

find Chiang Mai the most enjoyable. If you are a country bumpkin and

can live with 25 Cock A Doodle Doos every morning at 5 AM, and dogs barking at you every 20 feet when you go for a walk in the morning,

and everybody in the village knowing your business and all about your personal life and everything you do, then you found where you belong. For me, CM Citylife is all about being where I can walk to fine resturants, entertainment, and shopping whenever I want. My morning

walk around the moat on the new walkways is so relaxing and energenic. Just to watch this lovely city come alive each morning tells

me I made the right choice to live here. I get energy from these hard working people. I know everybody has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" Chiang Mai with your personal opinions. Thanx.

Hello papajohn, I have lived in Pai for many years and I take offense at your slander "country bumpkin". I have lived in many rural areas around the world and find Pai the most enjoyable. If you are a city slicker that can live with constant traffic noise, arguments erupting from the next condo a few inches away, the smell of diesel fumes, and everybody either not giving a shit about you or wanting to steal from you, then you found where you belong. For me, Pai country life is all about being where I can grow organic food, see the stars at night, and enjoy butterflys, fireflies and all sorts of other wildlife whenever I want. My morning walk through the forest in the still morning mist is so relaxing and energetic. Just to watch the village come alive, enjoying the smells of cooking and the sounds of music and children playing tells me I made the right choice to live here. I know eveyone has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" other peoples lifestyle choices with your personal, if not chamber of commerce, opinions. Thanx.

[Carib]

hahahahahaha, another thread going up in "big smoke" ....

[tigerbeer]

Never met the good man, he could be the next Gandi

for all I know.

Its Gandhi. Still don't get where Gandhi fits into your discussion on different slangs used by Americans and the British.

[papajohn]

Hey Tiger,you must be thinking about that guy from India. My Gandi is

the name of a pet that died last year. He was a nice pet that loved Thaland too.

[PeaceBlondie]

The only Gandi I ever met was the young, long-nosed Tojolabal Maya who ran the internet in Comitan, Chiapas. I did meet the grandson of the Indian leader Mohandas Gandhi, and he did not smoke then. "Big Smoke" doesn't sound neutral, it sounds aboriginally derogatory. As for roosters, either Lonely Planet or its competitor said about one guest house in Mae Hong Son Province, "Kill that rooster!" Dogs are very loud in remote, rural Mayan villages in Chiapas, at any time of night. I live in the suburbs of Chiang Mai, where the loudest noises are the Royal Air Force fighter planes and the nightly flight to Inchon, Korea.

[papajohn]

Hello anony, I have lived in town for 2 years and I take offence at your slander "the big smoke". I have lived in 10 cities around the world and

find Chiang Mai the most enjoyable. If you are a country bumpkin and

can live with 25 Cock A Doodle Doos every morning at 5 AM, and dogs barking at you every 20 feet when you go for a walk in the morning,

and everybody in the village knowing your business and all about your personal life and everything you do, then you found where you belong. For me, CM Citylife is all about being where I can walk to fine resturants, entertainment, and shopping whenever I want. My morning

walk around the moat on the new walkways is so relaxing and energenic. Just to watch this lovely city come alive each morning tells

me I made the right choice to live here. I get energy from these hard working people. I know everybody has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" Chiang Mai with your personal opinions. Thanx.

Hello papajohn, I have lived in Pai for many years and I take offense at your slander "country bumpkin". I have lived in many rural areas around the world and find Pai the most enjoyable. If you are a city slicker that can live with constant traffic noise, arguments erupting from the next condo a few inches away, the smell of diesel fumes, and everybody either not giving a shit about you or wanting to steal from you, then you found where you belong. For me, Pai country life is all about being where I can grow organic food, see the stars at night, and enjoy butterflys, fireflies and all sorts of other wildlife whenever I want. My morning walk through the forest in the still morning mist is so relaxing and energetic. Just to watch the village come alive, enjoying the smells of cooking and the sounds of music and children playing tells me I made the right choice to live here. I know eveyone has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" other peoples lifestyle choices with your personal, if not chamber of commerce, opinions. Thanx.

Hi cloudhopper, sorry for the "country bumpkin" phrase, I try to control my slang but it shows its ugly head sometimes. If you Google it you will see it is not a derogatory term, so no offense intended.

I am glad you like butterflies, as I have been called that a number of times Chok Dee

[Rinrada]

Never met the good man, he could be the next Gandi

for all I know.

Its Gandhi. Still don't get where Gandhi fits into your discussion on different slangs used by Americans and the British.

Forger Ghandi..when it came to getting rid of the Big Smoke..in the Smoke.... it was all down to (if me memory serves me well) to an old Tory UK MP called Nab..1-2-3-4 etc.. Sir Gerald Nabarro who raised a private members bill in the H of C in circa 1954-55 which eventually became the "Clean Air Act" of I believe 1956.....sumit about... Global Warming...unwittingly probably saved millions

The Yanks Congress followed on with similar ledgi a few years later....no hurry of course ...bit like Ki-yoto..init

[gpdjohn]

Hello anony, I have lived in town for 2 years and I take offence at your slander "the big smoke". I have lived in 10 cities around the world and

find Chiang Mai the most enjoyable. If you are a country bumpkin and

can live with 25 Cock A Doodle Doos every morning at 5 AM, and dogs barking at you every 20 feet when you go for a walk in the morning,

and everybody in the village knowing your business and all about your personal life and everything you do, then you found where you belong. For me, CM Citylife is all about being where I can walk to fine resturants, entertainment, and shopping whenever I want. My morning

walk around the moat on the new walkways is so relaxing and energenic. Just to watch this lovely city come alive each morning tells

me I made the right choice to live here. I get energy from these hard working people. I know everybody has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" Chiang Mai with your personal opinions. Thanx.

Hello papajohn, I have lived in Pai for many years and I take offense at your slander "country bumpkin". I have lived in many rural areas around the world and find Pai the most enjoyable. If you are a city slicker that can live with constant traffic noise, arguments erupting from the next condo a few inches away, the smell of diesel fumes, and everybody either not giving a shit about you or wanting to steal from you, then you found where you belong. For me, Pai country life is all about being where I can grow organic food, see the stars at night, and enjoy butterflys, fireflies and all sorts of other wildlife whenever I want. My morning walk through the forest in the still morning mist is so relaxing and energetic. Just to watch the village come alive, enjoying the smells of cooking and the sounds of music and children playing tells me I made the right choice to live here. I know eveyone has their own life to live, but please do not "put down" other peoples lifestyle choices with your personal, if not chamber of commerce, opinions. Thanx.

Hi cloudhopper, sorry for the "country bumpkin" phrase, I try to control my slang but it shows its ugly head sometimes. If you Google it you will see it is not a derogatory term, so no offense intended.

I am glad you like butterflies, as I have been called that a number of times Chok Dee

Hey!

I take offense to being called a "city slicker" !!!! and you saying that everybody does not give a shit.

I haven't givena shit for years...

Take it back...!!

[Jefferson]

Can 'farangs' live up the mountain, say, in some quieter place, and still be in reach of these ?

Sure you can live in the hills.. The closest are would probably be somewhere on the Samoeng loop either North or South of town. But then you're more than 20 minutes from town, probably at least 30 minutes. Same for the hills past Sankamphaeng and Doi Saket.

Can we move just a few miles down the road into the countryside and expect to manage ?

Which are the best nearby towns ?

Best nearby town.. Doi Saket probably.. Good road to it that's not very congested, hills and lakes are right next to town, and it's big enough to have a decent market, and there's a nice temple on the hill there. Or Lamphun, actually. Lamphun is cheaper too.

[Rinrada]

25 minutes out of the Mai.....built a wee mountain bar...no customers but nice to watch the sun going down...or come up with an ice cold bottle of Heinee (or 3) and a toasted cheese/bacon/sausage sarnie..with onions....and tom sauce.....init

[Mapguy]

I agree that many tourists are scared off by Chiang Mai's unwarranted reputation for being badly polluted, and, in fact, it has badly hurt my business.

IMHO, "High Season" has shrunk from 6 months to about 3 out of 12 months because of this reputation, which makes it difficult to pay the high rents the rest of the year in the downtown area.

There are a few bad days during March and February when the hills around Chiang Mai are being burned, but not enough for tourists in normal health to avoid the place completely. We did have one particularly bad year, but that seems to be a fluke caused by unusual weather.

However, one post with a witty line is not going to make difference one way or the other, so I think that we can give anonymouse a break, but I do applaud your efforts to attract more tourists to Chiang Mai.

UG, I am sorry to hear that your business has been falling off seriously apparently due to the decline in tourism. Want to know why? You should read the newly published English translation of Sustainable Cities in Chiang Mai: A Case of a City in a Valley. (Ought to be easy for you to get a copy!) The translation is not very good, but the major points are clear. You'll see many reasons why your business is falling off.

One of the major reasons is air pollution, a particular concern of yours. The research shows that this has been going on for quite some time now. It is sad to write about air pollution the day after one of the wonderfully clear days we have experienced this June. It was a brilliant day. Check the PCD readings and you'll see. The problem is that during too much of the year (generally from February – early April during the dry season) air pollution is indeed very high. This is a regular seasonal problem. The year --- 2007 --- was particularly bad, it is true, but not a "fluke." The problem is a serious problem each year.

Regarding air pollution, you should read pp 339 –358 of the book. There are numerous sources of information footnoted. They include research references on cancer as well as other public health problems, such as the high incidence of respiratory disease. And then an various obvious tourist problem is mentioned: You can barely make out, sometimes can't even see the natural beauty of Northern Thailand due to the air pollution, Doi Suthep being everyone's favorite natural landmark. Natural beauty is one of the two major marketing themes of the area! Table 8.8, one of a few graphs offered in the book, high and low PM10 (particles in smoke) levels every month, 1998 – 2006.

The second major marketing theme for Chiang Mai is the cultural heritage of the city. That seems to be increasingly "polluted" as well. The Chiang Mai Night Safari is a classic example of of "Disneyland" development that has encroached on the landscape and has been a colossal economic failure except for those who had a share in building it. "Strip development" along area routes has fragmented agricultural land, despoiled the natural landscape and increased transportation problems while the lack of effective development (including restoration) of the Old City has diminished the city's attractiveness as a cultural center. Take a walk around. See much traditional Lanna architecture? I do indeed think there are more book stores now in Chiang Mai than there are traditional Lanna houses!

Another person who posts on this thread praises Chiang Mai citizens and has expressed outrage at others "bad mouthing" the city. That person should know that the author of the book is a senior researcher at the Institute of Social Research and a fourth generation citizen of Chiang Mai who has been greatly distressed to see the city becoming less and less sustainable. She, among other responsible long-time residents of Chiang Mai, has also been very active in trying to improve public participation in solving the problems.

If you read the book, you'll see some reasons why these caring people have not been as successful as one might wish. One of the reasons is very clear: there are too many people in businesses large and small more interested in making a buck, as they say in America, without enough concern for the consequences of their actions which ultimately can lead to less profit and destroy the habitability of the place. There is an unfortunate tendency among too many people to ignore, play down, or increase the problems rather than to join in solving them or supporting people who work for a sustainable Chiang Mai.