Security Tightens At Government House To Block Anti-govt Protesters

[hammered]

It would be interesting to know exactly who accepted the censure motion yesterday thereby removing Samak's ability to disolve parliament. While the media concentrate on the drama at government house some questions remain. It had to be someone from the government. The timing was also intersting. Can we surmise someone on the government side was worried a house disolution may be called by Samak and didnt want that to happen? The whole government and parlaiment were pretty much enjoying a day off yesterday and yet the only piece of business that got done was the PPP placing the censure motion they didnt want to face on the agenda!

There must be a few walls it would be interesting to be a fly on right now.

Samak cant dissolve parliament and call a democratic election while the censure is in place. Something in the 2007 constitution I believe.

That leaves the only options as Samak to resign or tough it out which would likely lead to violence and a possible coup sometime.

Samak has said he wont resign so it puts the ball in Abhisits court as to whether he wants violence and a coup or another election.

I believe Abahisit has said he would be prepared to negotiate withdrawing the censure motion.

Im more interested to know why someone in the government put it on the agenda yesterday, which means parliament cannot be disolved right now. They didnt have to put it on yesterday. I would see it as more of a play inside the ruling party. The Democrats couldnt get the motion on the agenda and then just as parliament is surrounded and Samak faces criticism one of his weapons is removed by his own side albeit one that some argue he has held over his own side. Now as you say a quick election can only be called through negotiation. Samak could also be removed either by his party or by censure without being able to disolve the house. There are many rumours both public and not public about Samak losing supprot in parts of his own (or maybe I should say not his own) party. There is probably no smoke without fire. The PPP are also not as united as the old TRT used to be.

To me it seems the PPP (or any other party for that matter) dont want another election right at this minute or at least they dont want one thrust on them by a volatile leader that they have not thought through. While eyes turn to the political and demonstrations the clock is ticking on court cases too. I would guess that even though they would probably win another election the PPP does not really want to have delays, the incredible cost or run the risk of a weak caretaker government period when things are out of their hands (and I dont think the old TRT heads trust Samak), and of course the PPP could end up getting disolved after a house disolution and before elections if we want to look at nightmare scenarios.

Persoanlly I feel the current situation is quite unstable and it is not helped now that there are more players with different agendas instead of the old two sides.

[hammered]

Somsak's background:

The Newin faction is seen as the largest clique of the PPP, wielding the support of more than 100 MPs from the Northeast. Upon a closer look at the faction, Newin's loyal allies should be about 40 or less, comprising mostly MPs from the lower Northeast. The rest of the faction members form a loose and occasional alliance with Newin and they drift in accordance with the power flow of the PPP mainstream. These include about 20 MPs from the Northeast Development Group under House Deputy Speaker Somsak Kiartsuranan.

- The Nation

Makes sense if it was Somsak who put it on the agenda. Cant see the Newin group wanting yet another highly expensive election right now and they probably dont care what happens to Samak.

[hammered]

Democrat MP urges Samak to resign, pave way for new PM election

Democrat Party assistant secretary-general Thepthai Senpong Saturday urged Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to resign and have the House of Representatives choose his successor.

Thepthai said Samak had to resign because his opponents had besieged the Government House compound and thus rendering his government unable to work.

He said the next prime minister could be Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa, Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong, or Deputy Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat of the People Power Party.

"Now that the Government House is under siege, how could he remain in office as prime minister. The matter will have to be decided in Parliament and the game will have to be replayed from the beginning," Thepthai said.

The Nation

Oooooh the fun starts. I bet he enjoyed publically mentioning names who he would know would just love to be PM.

[plachon]

Going back to the comments made yesterday by Chavalit about installing an interim govt., I can't understand why the media give his opinions such prominence. After all, when he was PM, everyone was speculating whether he had Alzheimer's Disease or not, and it was a fairly close call. Since then, under TRT and his role as Mr Solve Poverty he became increasingly erratic and irrelevant and lived up to his reputation as a doolally clown at most media shots. The guy acts and thinks like a dinosaur, but still gets big attention from the media.

The question is, does Chavalit speak for himself, or is he used as a conduit for other's opinions, like Prem perhaps? Given the spilt between Prem and Toxin, but Chavlait's buddiness and loyalty to the latter, is he a go-between with a foot in both camps? Somebody please explain where Chavalit stands on the chessboard, as I can't see a clown piece in my chess set?

And do the media do the Thai people a dis-service by reporting his spoutings?

[h90]

Samak cant dissolve parliament and call a democratic election while the censure is in place. Something in the 2007 constitution I believe.

* 1. * That leaves the only options as Samak to resign or * 2. * tough it out which would likely lead to violence and a possible coup sometime.

Samak has said he wont resign so it puts the ball in Abhisits court as to whether he wants violence and a coup or another election.

3. Emergency Decree

take a paid mob. Let them fight with PAD, even if not much happens you can make it very dramatic on TV.

Here we go...violence special news "There is violence and blood on the streets of Thailand so I the Samak of Thailand must declare State of Emergency and the PAD must go home".

Result: They don't do. He may take Chamlong and Sondhi in jail or not. You get a real fighting. The Army stage a coup.....

Hope he is smart enough to see that this is nonsense

[hammered]

Going back to the comments made yesterday by Chavalit about installing an interim govt., I can't understand why the media give his opinions such prominence. After all, when he was PM, everyone was speculating whether he had Alzheimer's Disease or not, and it was a fairly close call. Since then, under TRT and his role as Mr Solve Poverty he became increasingly erratic and irrelevant and lived up to his reputation as a doolally clown at most media shots. The guy acts and thinks like a dinosaur, but still gets big attention from the media.

The question is, does Chavalit speak for himself, or is he used as a conduit for other's opinions, like Prem perhaps? Given the spilt between Prem and Toxin, but Chavlait's buddiness and loyalty to the latter, is he a go-between with a foot in both camps? Somebody please explain where Chavalit stands on the chessboard, as I can't see a clown piece in my chess set?

And do the media do the Thai people a dis-service by reporting his spoutings?

Chavalit the hero of Ban Rom Khlao and the hero of 1997 is famous for being utterly unintelligible and as you say there has been speculation. He has been close to Thaksin for ages having donated a hundred or so unbeatable sitting Isaan MPs to the TRT crusade. He has since 2005 been slightly critical of Thaksin and claimed he didnt learn, but all quite mild stuff. Chavalit was also one of the "sons of Prem" and has seemingly kept the tightrope walk going.

As to his suggestions, personally I thought the national unity government was a good idea. However, who does he speak for. It could be seen as testing the waters or floating an idea that could come from one wing of the Thaksinistas. Chavalit was according to some approached to lead PPP befor Samak but declined due to Thaksins intransigence. He could also be floating his own idea of national unity government led by no other than yes you guessed it old Chavalit himself. He would no doubt rather be remembered as a saviour during a time of crisis rather than the one who led the country over the 1997 precipice and we better not talk about Ban Rom Khlao.

Shoudl the press give his ramblings prominence. Well why not if they are good ideas. Nobody else seems to suggest anything much. The flip side is that while these days he is good for a quote or good to mount his charger in some fantasy of saving the nation, he is rarely listened to and lacks much power with any group. Still I liked his ideas this time and to be honest even if he were a bit doolally he would be eminently preferable to Samak.

Chess Piece. Knight I guess.

[Seneque]

Like it or not PPP won a democratic election

So did Mugabe, and GWB ... is that a reason enough to let hings go south simply in the name of democracy !

I am sorry to say that in most democracies the representatives of the people do not represent the people at all and we still call that a democracy ...

People hide behind democracy like cockroaches in dark corners ...

[Meerkat]

Like it or not PPP won a democratic election

So did Mugabe, and GWB ... is that a reason enough to let hings go south simply in the name of democracy !

I am sorry to say that in most democracies the representatives of the people do not represent the people at all and we still call that a democracy ...

People hide behind democracy like cockroaches in dark corners ...

ve

Sure, as I said a page or so back, it's a crappy system just not as crappy as the other forms of government we've so far tried. What's the alternative?

[ando]

Im more interested to know why someone in the government put it on the agenda yesterday, which means parliament cannot be disolved right now. They didnt have to put it on yesterday.

I suspect it might be to force the Democrats to take some responsibility for finding a way out of the current mess.

As it stands now, the only options are for Samak to resign (which he says he wont) or an eventual violent confrontation which would probably result in another coup that no one outside PAD wants (especially the military).

Even if it comes to another coup, there will eventually be another election which TRT, PPP or what ever their new name will be is going to be the favourite to win. 10,000 or even somewhere between 100,000 to a million votes from PAD supporters in Bangkok are not going to make much difference in a general election comprising up to 35 million actual Thai citizens through out the whole country.

By putting the Democrats in the hot seat with the power to either deny the government the right to call fresh elections or force new elections down the line via another coup, it brings them out into the open re their involvement in the current situation. They can no longer sit on the side lines watching PAD do their dirty work and potentially reaping the political benefits. Its a bit of a gamble for the Democrats though as if they decide to withdraw the censure motion Samak may may decide to tough it out by invoking an emergency order or simply by out waiting PAD.

The Democrats have been pretty good at sitting on the sidelines and complaining about the 4 month old governments performance. This is a call for them to step up to the line and show their true colours for all to see. Do the democrats want to get into power through the back door via another coup or are they prepared to take the PPP on in a general election? They failed to get into government last time (only a few months ago) despite the military setting things up for them. A week is a long time in politics this latest attempt to overthrow the democratic process by PAD may actually work against the Democrats in the long run.

[marshbags]

edited quotes by marshbags

Yet another example of press agency untruths and over exageration.

We,ve had ASTV on live and again i,ve not seen anything of what your article suggests and nor have my Thai family

Go take a look for yourself if you want and come back to me with your observations and alleged unrest that is supposedly taking place.

As for the photo, it isn,t very difficult for even an amateur to make it appear to be confrontational and who is to say if the guy at the fore front is not a paid trouble maker, along with the others.?????

Then again this sort of distortion of reality sells more papers and gets him more for his article.

They,d hardly publish a boring peaceful scenario as this isn,t going to sell their front page press releases.

marshbags

My intention of posting this article, is to allow TV members to see how the international press are refering to the situation.

As at the end of the day, it is usefull to understand how the global audience are informed, thus we can be prepared to counter act such news stories.

Boater

Apologies due Boater, sorry for mis reading your good intentions.

marshbags

Edited June 21, 2008 by marshbags

[george]

About 1,200 policemen guard Government House

About 1,200 policemen were deployed to guard strategic locations around Government House.

The policemen, including anti-riot police and border patrol policemen, stand guarding entrances to the Government House and are stationed inside the compound.

-- The Nation 2008-06-21

[Plus]

Someone quoted one of the Democrats proposing Samak's resignation and replacing him with one of coalition leaders to diffuse the situation.

Samak might try to sit it out until the censure debate and will most certainly lose.

No one knows what will happen to the government coalition. On one hand they can all form a government with Democrats in charge but I doubt they'd risk leaving PPP out in the cold completely.

They'll probably let someone from coalition parties to form their own government, perhaps after consulting with Democrats, a kind of national unity government without calling it by the name. As a result Newin will be forced to back off, at least temporarily. That means no constitution rewrite and less interference with AEC and AG offices.

Only visible and verifiable action on those issues can stop the blockade of the government house. Chamlong won't settle for anything less.

[h90]

Im more interested to know why someone in the government put it on the agenda yesterday, which means parliament cannot be disolved right now. They didnt have to put it on yesterday.

I suspect it might be to force the Democrats to take some responsibility for finding a way out of the current mess.

As it stands now, the only options are for Samak to resign (which he says he wont) or an eventual violent confrontation which would probably result in another coup that no one outside PAD wants (especially the military).

Even if it comes to another coup, there will eventually be another election which TRT, PPP or what ever their new name will be is going to be the favourite to win. 10,000 or even somewhere between 100,000 to a million votes from PAD supporters in Bangkok are not going to make much difference in a general election comprising up to 35 million actual Thai citizens through out the whole country.

By putting the Democrats in the hot seat with the power to either deny the government the right to call fresh elections or force new elections down the line via another coup, it brings them out into the open re their involvement in the current situation. They can no longer sit on the side lines watching PAD do their dirty work and potentially reaping the political benefits. Its a bit of a gamble for the Democrats though as if they decide to withdraw the censure motion Samak may may decide to tough it out by invoking an emergency order or simply by out waiting PAD.

The Democrats have been pretty good at sitting on the sidelines and complaining about the 4 month old governments performance. This is a call for them to step up to the line and show their true colours for all to see. Do the democrats want to get into power through the back door via another coup or are they prepared to take the PPP on in a general election? They failed to get into government last time (only a few months ago) despite the military setting things up for them. A week is a long time in politics this latest attempt to overthrow the democratic process by PAD may actually work against the Democrats in the long run.

If I understood right the Democrats told already that they would take that back. On the other side Samak told already, he won't resign and it seems he don't want to dissolve the parliament. So the Democrats can't do much at the moment.

[h90]

Someone quoted one of the Democrats proposing Samak's resignation and replacing him with one of coalition leaders to diffuse the situation.

Samak might try to sit it out until the censure debate and will most certainly lose.

No one knows what will happen to the government coalition. On one hand they can all form a government with Democrats in charge but I doubt they'd risk leaving PPP out in the cold completely.

They'll probably let someone from coalition parties to form their own government, perhaps after consulting with Democrats, a kind of national unity government without calling it by the name. As a result Newin will be forced to back off, at least temporarily. That means no constitution rewrite and less interference with AEC and AG offices.

Only visible and verifiable action on those issues can stop the blockade of the government house. Chamlong won't settle for anything less.

also possible that a part of the PPP is leaving the PPP and form a coalition lead by the democrats. That seems to be usual in some countries, don't know for Thailand.

[younghusband]

Plachon, the 'Assembly of the Poor ' ... what or whom are you regarding with this statement please??? If it is the protesters currently outside Government House please take a back seat and do some research into what you are talking about... if not, do explain...

I was merely comparing the current relatively short protest with the long and arduous protests of AOP, who had to brave all sorts of tests of endurance to make their point, eventually realising that being fobbed off with false promises by the state authorities was par for the course. The protesters now are more savvy one would like to think and will stay until there is concrete change. This is People Power in action. However, there will be many obstacles placed in their way by the Lord of Darkness and his fawning minions in power at present.

Thanks to Stumonster for the background links on AOP.

The lack of international media coverage is a disappointment and deserves an examination of motives.

The coverage in the international press and media has been fairly comprehensive contrary to your perception.It didn't merit as much coverage as the 2006 coup but I have seen good reports in the FT,BBC,IHT and NYT - and I haven't been looking that hard.In the overall scheme of things Thailand is not a big story these days and there is a general perception that there is third rate political leadership across the board in a still quasi feudal set up.Thaksin is obviously by several miles the dominant political figure but badly flawed, whether fatally remains to be seen.The real battle is about him, his money and who will dominate Thailand:all the rest is irrelevant clutter.Contrary to people who talk in cartoon like terms about "The Lord of Darkness and his minions", I think the best foreign correspondents know the score very well.It's a bit like waiting for Godot.

[marshbags]

Today has been a victory for the people and democracy so far. The people used their democratic right to demonstrate peacefully and that right was upheld by the police (kudos to BIB), without resort to violence or calling in the military. This is a big step forward on the way things have been handled in the past and it looks like some of the lessons of May 1992 might have been internalised.

The unsettling fact is that the previous bloody revolutions started also with peaceful protests. It just takes a few "crazies" (military, police, or protesters) to spark violence. That's why such protests as we see now (massive crowds carrying baseball bats, sticks, shields, etc.; pushing up against police and government buildings) holds such terrible potential for bloody violence.

Thailand has been very, very lucky in 2006, and this week. Let's pray the luck holds, and that the crazies' compatriots continue the peer pressure on those who would destroy peace.

The big tester will be if / when Samak carries out his intentions to return to Gov. House.

I cannot imagine this is going to take place without the peace being disturbed.

HDGAF and obviously wants to force his emergency plans into the scenario ( at the very least ) or innocent blood flowing.

He could of course opt for a temporary venue while the situation is at this telling level and constantly on a knife edge.

Let us hope they find a way to resolve this situation urgently before the certain something takes it over the k. e.

marshbags

Edited June 21, 2008 by marshbags

[ando]

Im more interested to know why someone in the government put it on the agenda yesterday, which means parliament cannot be disolved right now. They didnt have to put it on yesterday.

I suspect it might be to force the Democrats to take some responsibility for finding a way out of the current mess.

As it stands now, the only options are for Samak to resign (which he says he wont) or an eventual violent confrontation which would probably result in another coup that no one outside PAD wants (especially the military).

Even if it comes to another coup, there will eventually be another election which TRT, PPP or what ever their new name will be is going to be the favourite to win. 10,000 or even somewhere between 100,000 to a million votes from PAD supporters in Bangkok are not going to make much difference in a general election comprising up to 35 million actual Thai citizens through out the whole country.

By putting the Democrats in the hot seat with the power to either deny the government the right to call fresh elections or force new elections down the line via another coup, it brings them out into the open re their involvement in the current situation. They can no longer sit on the side lines watching PAD do their dirty work and potentially reaping the political benefits. Its a bit of a gamble for the Democrats though as if they decide to withdraw the censure motion Samak may may decide to tough it out by invoking an emergency order or simply by out waiting PAD.

The Democrats have been pretty good at sitting on the sidelines and complaining about the 4 month old governments performance. This is a call for them to step up to the line and show their true colours for all to see. Do the democrats want to get into power through the back door via another coup or are they prepared to take the PPP on in a general election? They failed to get into government last time (only a few months ago) despite the military setting things up for them. A week is a long time in politics this latest attempt to overthrow the democratic process by PAD may actually work against the Democrats in the long run.

If I understood right the Democrats told already that they would take that back. On the other side Samak told already, he won't resign and it seems he don't want to dissolve the parliament. So the Democrats can't do much at the moment.

"If I understood right the Democrats told already that they would take that back."[i][/i]

Unconditionally? Or with certain concessions?

I don't know whats going on behind closed doors, but I do know this is a game of brinkmanship Thai style.

In the final analysis presented to the public down the line it will be a case of the Democrats allowing Samak to call an early election and letting the people decide, or the Democrats blocking the move and forcing another coup. I reckon the Democrats will blink first. That puts the ball back in Samaks court.

Edited June 21, 2008 by ando

[Plus]

Samak is history, there's no chance whatsoever he'll be able to continue working and ignore blockade of his own office.

The real battle is about him, his money and who will dominate Thailand:all the rest is irrelevant clutter.

A short while ago YH snorted at people who said exactly the same thing, he propagated complexities and social forces and elites pitched against each other and rising democracy and what not.

Fresh elections won't achieve anything, people who rely on this idea will be severely disappointed. Until Thaksin's fate is delegated to the courts, nothing will change for the better. It's not people's business to decide on his guilt or innocence, their majority/plurality carries no weight in the court of law (or should carry no weight, ideally).

[younghusband]

The real battle is about him, his money and who will dominate Thailand:all the rest is irrelevant clutter.

A short while ago YH snorted at people who said exactly the same thing, he propagated complexities and social forces and elites pitched against each other and rising democracy and what not.

The two aspects are not inconsistent, and in fact reinforce each other.

[marshbags]

It,s just been mentioned on Mcot / channel 9 i think that Samak has asked Chuan and others who offered to meet him previously and were arrogantly turned down, to meet him Monday.

They in turn have reciprocated, but in a non arrogant way and turned him down this time.

Guess Samak is now starting to show the panic under the surface.

If only he had agreed in the first instance, just maybe this dire situation would not be what it is today

marshbags

As for the other arrogant backstud Chalerm:-

(Incidently, both had a sick grin on their faces on Mcot but their eyes expressed something different and had a worried look about them )

The Nation Breaking news

Chalerm expresses support of another extraordinary session of Parliament

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday that the opposition should join force with senators to convene another extraordinary session of Parliament for a censure debate.

He said the current extraordinary session does not have enough time for the censure debate for which the opposition has filed a motion.

As a result, he said, the opposition should gather signatures of senators to invoke Article 129 of the Constitution to convene another extraordinary session.

The Nation

Edited June 21, 2008 by marshbags

[nick2k]

Plachon, the 'Assembly of the Poor ' ... what or whom are you regarding with this statement please??? If it is the protesters currently outside Government House please take a back seat and do some research into what you are talking about... if not, do explain...

I was merely comparing the current relatively short protest with the long and arduous protests of AOP, who had to brave all sorts of tests of endurance to make their point, eventually realising that being fobbed off with false promises by the state authorities was par for the course. The protesters now are more savvy one would like to think and will stay until there is concrete change. This is People Power in action. However, there will be many obstacles placed in their way by the Lord of Darkness and his fawning minions in power at present.

Thanks to Stumonster for the background links on AOP.

The lack of international media coverage is a disappointment and deserves an examination of motives.

isn't it obvious? "somebody" doesn't recognize the movement. and my guess is - they are probably wondering - who is in control?

the key word here is instability. and what will come of it.

none of my business. but since you asked...

[ando]

It,s just been mentioned on Mcot / channel 9 i think that Samak has asked Chuan and others who offered to meet him previously and were arrogantly turned down, to meet him Monday.

They in turn have reciprocated, but in a non arrogant way and turned him down this time.

Guess Samak is now starting to show the panic under the surface.

If only he had agreed in the first instance, just maybe this dire situation would not be what it is today

marshbags

As for the other arrogant backstud Chalerm:-

(Incidently, both had a sick grin on their faces on Mcot but their eyes expressed something different and had a worried look about them )

Political brinkmanship is all it is. The political winds are fickle and blow both ways. No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

[Plus]

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

[Nampeung]

What's happening on the ground at the moment then?

Edited June 21, 2008 by Nampeung

[ando]

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

You may be right or you may be wrong. As said earlier, the fickle winds of Thai politics can go either way and there are still a few options on the table which could be played out. Personally I would put my money on it going to a new election within the next few months. No one really has a firm grip on political power at the moment, not PAD, not the military, not the democrats and not even the elected government. I doubt if it will solve anything though.

[nomoretalksin]

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

If Thaksin left the country yesterday, as some rapport, you can be sure he and/or his accused people/family etc., will delay the upcoming courts sheduling once again and be "no-show". Everytime, the court dates are on, they have some excuse (last time he told an English Journalist that 6 times already they tried to kill him, and he had to stay out of the country for security reasons) not to show up, until they are sure they "pastry boxes full of tea-money" found their way through?

How long can we wait until these people stand in the courts, as they claimed they will do?

[Herbs]

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

If Thaksin left the country yesterday, as some rapport, you can be sure he and/or his accused people/family etc., will delay the upcoming courts sheduling once again and be "no-show". Everytime, the court dates are on, they have some excuse (last time he told an English Journalist that 6 times already they tried to kill him, and he had to stay out of the country for security reasons) not to show up, until they are sure they "pastry boxes full of tea-money" found their way through?

How long can we wait until these people stand in the courts, as they claimed they will do?

Cannot Thai politics grow up and act like a civilised Democracy? This is all really pathetic. 'He said this, she said that'. It is so sad....

[h90]

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

If Thaksin left the country yesterday, as some rapport, you can be sure he and/or his accused people/family etc., will delay the upcoming courts sheduling once again and be "no-show". Everytime, the court dates are on, they have some excuse (last time he told an English Journalist that 6 times already they tried to kill him, and he had to stay out of the country for security reasons) not to show up, until they are sure they "pastry boxes full of tea-money" found their way through?

How long can we wait until these people stand in the courts, as they claimed they will do?

Cannot Thai politics grow up and act like a civilised Democracy? This is all really pathetic. 'He said this, she said that'. It is so sad....

not as long as someone pumps a lot money in....

[elation]

Have we ever thought that perhaps Thailand is not 'ready' for a democratic government? A democratic government is based on the assumption that the people have evolved enough to allow disagreements to end after the final ballot is counted and they join together to make things work. Unfortunately, this did not happen and things got worse. Not to say that Thailand alone has this problem. The United States is a prime example where, under democratic rule, its hopelessly deadlocked in politics and fiscal mismangement. Add to that the fact that many want to rig the elections and we have chaos like we see in so many situations.

The reallity is, maybe democracy is not a one shoe fits all type of government...as we westerners have sold it to be. There are many countries that do just fine/have done just fine without democracy.

Are you kidding me!!!! What you are really saying, is that the majority of people disagree with me, so I think that is because they are not mature enough to have a democracy . So we need to put just one person that agrees with my point of view in control. Democracy is a one shoe fits kind of government, it reflects the will of the people, the will of the majority. Where it gets messy is when a minority tries to force their opinion onto a majority. That is why nothing has been solved, actually it has been solved, it is just there is a few people that are not willing to except that what the people want is concrete. There is to many people living outside of Bangkok that support this government for it to fall. Even if they are stealing everything they can get their hands on and the most corupt government ever. Democracy is working, they are a reflection of the people outside of the Bangkok, the majority of Thailand.

Go back to your dictators anonymous meetings and leave the rest of the peaceful world alone!

I hear democracy is working really well for Iraq.

The democracy models (and there is more than one) assumes that the loser of the ballot (the minority) will gracefully roll over and comply with the will of the majority, and that the ballots were fairly cast and counted with integrity. Then the people who win will take responsibility for the interest and welfare of the entire country without self interests. A lot of 'mature' assumptions for countries that will be ruled by a few power hungry politicians who end up ruling the country by proxy anyway.

You don't have government by the people, its government by the people who get elected (that elite group) and their 'special' interests...

[Herbs]

Have we ever thought that perhaps Thailand is not 'ready' for a democratic government? A democratic government is based on the assumption that the people have evolved enough to allow disagreements to end after the final ballot is counted and they join together to make things work. Unfortunately, this did not happen and things got worse. Not to say that Thailand alone has this problem. The United States is a prime example where, under democratic rule, its hopelessly deadlocked in politics and fiscal mismangement. Add to that the fact that many want to rig the elections and we have chaos like we see in so many situations.

The reallity is, maybe democracy is not a one shoe fits all type of government...as we westerners have sold it to be. There are many countries that do just fine/have done just fine without democracy.

Are you kidding me!!!! What you are really saying, is that the majority of people disagree with me, so I think that is because they are not mature enough to have a democracy . So we need to put just one person that agrees with my point of view in control. Democracy is a one shoe fits kind of government, it reflects the will of the people, the will of the majority. Where it gets messy is when a minority tries to force their opinion onto a majority. That is why nothing has been solved, actually it has been solved, it is just there is a few people that are not willing to except that what the people want is concrete. There is to many people living outside of Bangkok that support this government for it to fall. Even if they are stealing everything they can get their hands on and the most corupt government ever. Democracy is working, they are a reflection of the people outside of the Bangkok, the majority of Thailand.

Go back to your dictators anonymous meetings and leave the rest of the peaceful world alone!

We ALL know the reason that there isn't a Democracy in Thailand....we all know why, we all know why it is such a mess...

I hear democracy is working really well for Iraq.

The democracy models (and there is more than one) assumes that the loser of the ballot (the minority) will gracefully roll over and comply with the will of the majority, and that the ballots were fairly cast and counted with integrity. Then the people who win will take responsibility for the interest and welfare of the entire country without self interests. A lot of 'mature' assumptions for countries that will be ruled by a few power hungry politicians who end up ruling the country by proxy anyway.

You don't have government by the people, its government by the people who get elected (that elite group) and their 'special' interests...