Security Tightens At Government House To Block Anti-govt Protesters

[Meerkat]

The current system is neither workable, no representative.

How do you work that out? It is working - it's a fairly typical system based around geographic constituencies. The government's current problems stem from a hangover from Thaksin's administration, but the system itself is robust. These problems are slowly but inexorably grinding their way through the courts and everything will shake itself out, most likely with a different looking cabinet from the one we have now - maybe even with a Democrat-led coalition, but still within the confines of the constitution. It is as representative as any other party politics system. Not perfect as I said, but a good compromise.

Your lesbian rice farmer living off rented land will get to vote four times, what's the problem?

It is complex, no doubt about it, and all sectors of society are not going to be represented equally, and there will be debates about proportions of unions vs lesbians and so on.

Well if they're not going to be represented equally, what's the point of trying to create a system that's supposed to do exactly that? Why should she get 4 votes when her straight neighbour who only makes a living by selling food only gets 2? She is getting more representation in the form of votes. The system is so idiotically complex that it should be a non-starter. To make such a system workable the functional groups would have to be slimmed down so much that they would then cease to be truly representative (like in that bastion of democracy, HK, where there are only 28 groups - there has been lots of commentary about exactly how representative that's turned out to be).

Let's make one thing clear first - there's no way "new politics" is going to become a reality under present conditions, it's all only hypothetical.

Hopefully it will never become a reality under any conditions. Nevertheless, seeing as the PAD has brought it up, the debate is interesting, and helps to show exactly how much in cloud-cuckoo land their leaders really are. Seriously, I really doubt most of the PAD supporters actually know what it is they're giving up their evenings and weekends to support.

Now, back to representation - they can set criteria for getting any number of seats for any interest group. Every couple of years the performance of the current members and new applications reviewed and considered. More vocal and active groups get more seats, less active and redundant once lose their seats. I don't think it's too difficult to design KPI indices for legislators.

Quite apart from who should design and monitor these KPI, again it's just getting more and more convoluted and unworkable. We already have an easily workable and tried-and-tested system of KPI - they're called direct elections.

Let evolution run its course.

The evolution of democracy in Thailand would be great. It's never going to happen though with the military seeing themselves as the ultimate arbiter of government (ultimate under the Monarchy of course) - something that "New Politics" seeks to enshrine.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Meerkat

[Plus]

The current system is neither workable, no representative.

How do you work that out?

The three successive government all have been in the state of crisis for three years now, and five years before that it was only a lead up. So it isn't working. I thought that was pretty much obvious.

And it's also obvious that the current system is not representative.

Well if they're not going to be represented equally, what's the point of trying to create a system that's supposed to do exactly that?

I don't think anyone here is trying to create a system where everyone is equal in all respects. People are not equal, never have been and never will be.

I'm talking about ambitious individuals who feel they should have more say in country's governance, and creating a system where they'd have to prove they deserve it. Under "equal" rights they have to resort to all sorts of crookery or cease and desist, because there's simply no other, legal way to power. 1997 Consitution had this problem in mind and encouraged grassroot politics and activism and lowered the entrance bar to the political arena but failed miserably. "New politics" simply picks up where 1997 version has lost it.

>>>

In light of Hammered's long post on education - under current system teachers will never ever get their representation, EVER. They make up ony 2-3% of the population in any geographical area. Yet ALL voters spend 15-20 of their formative years under their influence. So, who is responsible for managing education in the country? Anyone but educators themselves. Thaksin's cousin is in charge now, he's been to school before, that's the only qualification needed.

The Ministry of Education is staffed with professionals, of course, but politicians always insist that they know better, they write up laws and decrees, get them approved in the parlament where no professionals are allowed, and come back and force Ministry staff to toe the line.

And that happens with every other ministry as well. This is a system that is designed to be a victim of all kinds of abuse. Under "new politics" you'll be assured that only qualified people get into positions of high professional responsibility.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Plus

[Tony Clifton]

Oh, I thought Thaskin was waging the war on the elites. Maybe I've read too many Thaigene's posts.

I think he was in a way, likely in the same way that he vowed to stamp out corruption.

And solved Bangkok's traffic problems in 6 months.

Near the end he wanted 3 more years to completely eradicate poverty after TOTALY eliminating drugs from Thailand.

He is now the laughter of the major part of the population not bent on crime for a living, to the rest he is a hero.

Wait until they haul his ass in jail (IF Coward the Great doesn't run), no one will want to admit they ever voted for the pr!ck.

[^_^]

On News 1 this morning:

A man drove a car into the stage at the PAD rally site in BKK at around 3am early today.

He was immediately detained by the PAD Guards and interrogated him. Having search the man himself and the car he drove, they found:

- some kind of Government ID Card which belong to certain Political Party.

- Bt200,000+ in cash

- wearing a suit worth Bt80,000+

- numerous types of heavy weapons and ammunitions in his car.

(the interrogation, weapons and ammunitions, etc. was all on video)

He claimed that he went to the PAD rally site of his own personal reasons and he just wanted to negotiate with the PAD to disperse their rally.

Having interrogated the man, the PAD Guards handed over the man to the police. The police further interrogated the man and was later Released On Bail and Charged for Careless Driving.

================================================================================

I wonder what would have happened if he managed to do what he was there to do?

Edited July 30, 2008 by ^_^

[jumnien]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

[Moonrakers]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Yeah, it's right up there with brutally attacking unarmed people with weapons isn't it?

[^_^]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Yeah, it's right up there with brutally attacking unarmed people with weapons isn't it?

globalj, there is no need to respond to sunrise07's post.

Having read his/her/it's post for the last couple month, I find that his one-liner-provacative post is what it is...to provoke a respond and he get's a kick out of it.

Don't let him have the satisfaction of members being provoked into a response.

Best solution is to ignore and don't pay any attention to his posts.

[Artisi]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-07-30 11:01:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Yeah, it's right up there with brutally attacking unarmed people with weapons isn't it?

globalj, there is no need to respond to sunrise07's post.

Having read his/her/it's post for the last couple month, I find that his one-liner-provacative post is what it is...to provoke a respond and he get's a kick out of it.

Don't let him have the satisfaction of members being provoked into a response.

Best solution is to ignore and don't pay any attention to his posts.

I agree.

[baanthale]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Spot on Sunrise, and happy birthday

[Siripon]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Undoubtedly more exclamation marks.

In case you hadn't noticed he drove a car into their stage!!!!

The police did nothing when Da torpedo made her very inflammatory speech!!!!!!

The police did nothing when the hooligans attacked the PAD in Udon!!!!!

The PAD don't have much faith in the police at the moment.

BTW, I heard that Kwanchai comes from Suphanburi. What's he doing in Udon?

[hammered]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Undoubtedly more exclamation marks.

In case you hadn't noticed he drove a car into their stage!!!!

The police did nothing when Da torpedo made her very inflammatory speech!!!!!!

The police did nothing when the hooligans attacked the PAD in Udon!!!!!

The PAD don't have much faith in the police at the moment.

BTW, I heard that Kwanchai comes from Suphanburi. What's he doing in Udon?

Well maybe we just found out what his job description for his position in the secretariat of the PMs office entaled. Certainly his academic qualifications werent up to too much shall we say cerebral work but then again clearly he has other qualities that made him a prime appointment a few months back.

[Los78]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

Spot on Sunrise, and happy birthday

Yes, PAD seem to be taking the law into their own hands more and more these days. Police are doing their job, so I can’t see it being justified to interrogate someone. I wonder what provocation will Sondhi's paid goons do next....They are getting more and more desperate in trying to stay in the media and cause divisions.

[sriracha john]

THAI RATH EDITORIAL :

People were shocked by last Thursday's violence in Udon Thani province, where a group of armed men attacked a People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rally in broad daylight. Armed with hammers, knives and clubs, the attackers broke through a 500-strong police cordon and clashed with the PAD demonstrators at Nong Prachak Silapakhom public park in the municipal area. At least 15 people were injured in the melee. The incident was captured by cameramen and part of it was broadcast by several television stations. Nobody can deny that the violent incident did take place. And so the truth must be told. The incident has proven that Thai democracy is still immature. People may resort to violence simply because they do not share the same political beliefs or ideology. Hatred may cause violence on the streets.

Last Thursday's incident was not unique. PAD supporters and their opponents have clashed on some other occasions in northern and northeastern provinces, where the ruling People Power Party (PPP) has a strong support base. Rumour has it that certain local politicians and members of parliament under the coalition government were behind the groups which clashed with PAD supporters in these provinces. If these politicians were indeed behind these acts of violence, they must face legal action and be impeached. For its part, the government must order an investigation into these incidents and bring all wrongdoers to justice. We cannot tolerate politicians who employ thugs to attack their

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/300708_News/30Jul2008_news98.php

[hammered]

THAI RATH EDITORIAL :

People were shocked by last Thursday's violence in Udon Thani province, where a group of armed men attacked a People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rally in broad daylight. Armed with hammers, knives and clubs, the attackers broke through a 500-strong police cordon and clashed with the PAD demonstrators at Nong Prachak Silapakhom public park in the municipal area. At least 15 people were injured in the melee. The incident was captured by cameramen and part of it was broadcast by several television stations. Nobody can deny that the violent incident did take place. And so the truth must be told. The incident has proven that Thai democracy is still immature. People may resort to violence simply because they do not share the same political beliefs or ideology. Hatred may cause violence on the streets.

Last Thursday's incident was not unique. PAD supporters and their opponents have clashed on some other occasions in northern and northeastern provinces, where the ruling People Power Party (PPP) has a strong support base. Rumour has it that certain local politicians and members of parliament under the coalition government were behind the groups which clashed with PAD supporters in these provinces. If these politicians were indeed behind these acts of violence, they must face legal action and be impeached. For its part, the government must order an investigation into these incidents and bring all wrongdoers to justice. We cannot tolerate politicians who employ thugs to attack their

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/300708_News/30Jul2008_news98.php

It is good to see such a forthright statement against politicains who employ thugs. That it comes from Thai Rath is good as it does not have the anti-government reputation that some newspapers do. It seems across quite a broad spectrum of Thai people including government supporters that the premeditated and well organised Udon attack was not acceptable. Lets hope this broad consensus can get something done about action which was clearly unconstitutional or more to the fact just plain criminal.

[sriracha john]

The Stalwart of Justice for sunrise, baanthale, and Los78

Security staff of People Alliance for Democracy try to calm down Sarotekrit Promaksorn, 56, who seemed to be drunk after he drove a Land Rover and hit barricades of PAD protesters, injuring two PAD staff members. Found in the car were 6 guns and a bullet-proof jacket.

[hammered]

The Stalwart of Justice for sunrise, baanthale, and Los78

Security staff of People Alliance for Democracy try to calm down Sarotekrit Promaksorn, 56, who seemed to be drunk after he drove a Land Rover and hit barricades of PAD protesters, injuring two PAD staff members. Found in the car were 6 guns and a bullet-proof jacket.

Sounds like he has a bit of explaining to do and not just for drunken driving.

[sriracha john]

More of the drunk lunatic with a load of weapons in his big vehicle of destruction that he drives into a crowd of people...

[hammered]

More of the drunk lunatic with a load of weapons in his big vehicle of destruction that he drives into a crowd of people...

Guess he's either got a lot of hatred towards someone or he has irreconcilable issues with his stability, self esteem or machoness carrying all that weaponry.

[Los78]

The Stalwart of Justice for sunrise, baanthale, and Los78

Security staff of People Alliance for Democracy try to calm down Sarotekrit Promaksorn, 56, who seemed to be drunk after he drove a Land Rover and hit barricades of PAD protesters, injuring two PAD staff members. Found in the car were 6 guns and a bullet-proof jacket.

Who knows, Most likely Sondhi's just paid him to do it and make PAD look good and give them some attention. Probably PAD staff members also planted the weopons in his car since they interrogated him. Its just PAD (People Against Democracy) up to their same old antics again nothing more... Cause division... Minor news and a publicity stunt... thats it.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Los78

[sriracha john]

The Stalwart of Justice for sunrise, baanthale, and Los78

Security staff of People Alliance for Democracy try to calm down Sarotekrit Promaksorn, 56, who seemed to be drunk after he drove a Land Rover and hit barricades of PAD protesters, injuring two PAD staff members. Found in the car were 6 guns and a bullet-proof jacket.

Who knows, Most likely Sondhi's just paid him to do it and make PAD look good and give them some attention. Probably PAD staff members also planted the weopons in his car since they interrogated him. Its just PAD (People Against Democracy) up to their same old antics again nothing more... Cause division... Minor news and a publicity stunt... thats it.

nice try, but...

[Los78]

The Stalwart of Justice for sunrise, baanthale, and Los78

Security staff of People Alliance for Democracy try to calm down Sarotekrit Promaksorn, 56, who seemed to be drunk after he drove a Land Rover and hit barricades of PAD protesters, injuring two PAD staff members. Found in the car were 6 guns and a bullet-proof jacket.

Who knows, Most likely Sondhi's just paid him to do it and make PAD look good and give them some attention. Probably PAD staff members also planted the weopons in his car since they interrogated him. Its just PAD (People Against Democracy) up to their same old antics again nothing more... Cause division... Minor news and a publicity stunt... thats it.

nice try, but...

YOu should ask some of the PAD protesters how much they earn per rally. They recieve a allowance for each rally they turn up too. I am not saying all of them, but I would say about half get anything from 150-300 Baht to attend. I wouldnt be surprised if this guy got some cash to give them publicity. You should open your eyes up and see that PAD are no angels..... PAD has lost a lot of its geniune supports since they are realising they have lost touch and become a joke to themselves. Enough said.

[sriracha john]

NONE of the people I spoke to at PAD rallies received money... other than pete_r allegations are there any others?

It's true however that I didn't speak to all 20,000 that were at the rally in Chonburi just last week... but if that's indicative of declining interest, I wonder how many would have attended if their support was actually dropping.

But that's ok, the reports of their lessening interest and their demise have been put forth for months... wonder when it will actually occur.

[hammered]

NONE of the people I spoke to at PAD rallies received money... other than pete_r allegations are there any others?

It's true however that I didn't speak to all 20,000 that were at the rally in Chonburi just last week... but if that's indicative of declining interest, I wonder how many would have attended if their support was actually dropping.

But that's ok, the reports of their lessening interest and their demise have been put forth for months... wonder when it will actually occur.

While they remain the only visible group opposed to Thaksin and the government they will continue to garner support at demos. That is just reality. I was told the Chonburi event was extremely well attended, whcih doesnt surprise me as Thaksin is pretty much hated around these parts, maybe not to the level of the way in the south but certainly getting there. I rememeber the whistle stop tour he had when PM and he turned up in Chonburi to like 6 people and a duck and it was so embarrassing the TRT refused to pay the 1000 baht per Songthaew and 300 baht per person they had pomised.

I know personally of quite lot of people around Chonburi who regularly go to Bangkok. They dont get paid. They actually are quite open about how they donate so that food can be provided and merchandise made and information dsibursed upcountry. I dont doubt some people are given money after all it is Thailand but its not easy to find those round these parts.

Persoanlly I dont think the PAD has the right approach with its 30% thing and ever more right wing agenda but it is fairly obvious that while they are the only group standing up against Thaksin they will get a broad spectrum of support from the public who are against Thaksin and the PPP and with every attack on them the support will only go up.

As I said I dont agree with the ever increasing right wing approach of the PAD I better balance it by saying I dont agree with the extreme right wing PM and his government of "gangsters and sleazy politicians" to steal one of Giles Ungpakorn's quotes.

[Los78]

NONE of the people I spoke to at PAD rallies received money... other than pete_r allegations are there any others?

It's true however that I didn't speak to all 20,000 that were at the rally in Chonburi just last week... but if that's indicative of declining interest, I wonder how many would have attended if their support was actually dropping.

But that's ok, the reports of their lessening interest and their demise have been put forth for months... wonder when it will actually occur.

Oh really that explains your totally one sided posts all the time. Well I see you are firmly a proud PAD member... Congratulations.... I didnt say everyone is on the payroll. Now that would be a bit obvious wouldn't it.....

But, just look at the PAD staff and their guards with baseball bats. Im sure they recieve enough from Sondhi's media empire to keep them out there. It's obvous money is exchanged and people are invited to attend these events. And offcoarse no one is going to tell you that they recieve money as they may lose getting it next time. Open your eyes a little bit more. I suggest you go back to your PAD rallies and i am sure you will dig up a little more or you can always go back to your continous posting of ASTV . Now we all now where those factual stories (NOT) come from.... Sondi's I believe.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Los78

[jumnien]

Well, it's certainly nice to see a diversity of opinion here on ThaiVisa. Let's hope it stays that way!

[Tony Clifton]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

You are shocked by the fact that a man was temporarily detained, unhurt, by civilians after ramming a stage with his car where he knows there is a crowd. but not by the fact that he tried killing or injuring people.

[jumnien]

Disgusting story! Now the PAD goon squad is interrogating prisoners before handing them over to the Thai authorities! What's next!

You are shocked by the fact that a man was temporarily detained, unhurt, by civilians after ramming a stage with his car where he knows there is a crowd. but not by the fact that he tried killing or injuring people.

"Killing or injuring people"? Sorry, I thought the incident involved PAD supporters!

[frodo]

Los78

Yes, PAD seem to be taking the law into their own hands more and more these days. Police are doing their job, so I can’t see it being justified to interrogate someone. I wonder what provocation will Sondhi's paid goons do next....They are getting more and more desperate in trying to stay in the media and cause divisions.

Had you forgotten a "T" at the end of your name? The police doing their job? In case you hadn't heard, the police stood idle and allowed pro-government forces to savagely beat, maim, and abuse unarmed protesters. The police are nothing more than government rogues and are not doing their job.

Edited July 30, 2008 by frodo

[jumnien]

Los78

Yes, PAD seem to be taking the law into their own hands more and more these days. Police are doing their job, so I can’t see it being justified to interrogate someone. I wonder what provocation will Sondhi's paid goons do next....They are getting more and more desperate in trying to stay in the media and cause divisions.

Had you forgotten a "T" at the end of your name? The police doing their job? In case you hadn't heard, the police stood idle and allowed pro-government forces to savagely beat, maim, and abuse unarmed protesters. The police are nothing more than government rogues and are not doing their job.

It's a bit of a stretch to call Sondhi's pawns "protesters". Paid naive thugs, perhaps. They have been disturbing and disrupting Thai society for years now and now they're getting a bit of their own medicine. The ultra-conservative right-wing PAD has not listened to the police in the past and isn't about to now.

[sgtpeppers]

Los78

Yes, PAD seem to be taking the law into their own hands more and more these days. Police are doing their job, so I can't see it being justified to interrogate someone. I wonder what provocation will Sondhi's paid goons do next....They are getting more and more desperate in trying to stay in the media and cause divisions.

Had you forgotten a "T" at the end of your name? The police doing their job? In case you hadn't heard, the police stood idle and allowed pro-government forces to savagely beat, maim, and abuse unarmed protesters. The police are nothing more than government rogues and are not doing their job.

It's a bit of a stretch to call Sondhi's pawns "protesters". Paid naive thugs, perhaps. They have been disturbing and disrupting Thai society for years now and now they're getting a bit of their own medicine. The ultra-conservative right-wing PAD has not listened to the police in the past and isn't about to now.

who wants to pay respect or attention to a corrupt police force ?

PAD is the best thing to happen to Thai democracy. Its waking the people up to the realities of the system.