Plus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 All kinds of strikes happen in Europe almost on the monthly basis. I bet having railways shut down completely causes a lot more inconvenience than tight traffic around one single bridge. I also just read somewhere that Lindon Johnson decided not to run for the second term because his heavy handed approach to Vietnam war protests backfired. I won't argue about that - it was just someone's opinion. For people living in the vicinity of any road/bridge/BTS/MRT construction, PAD's rally is a minor nuisance by comparison. The proposed bill said that all demonstrations need government approval, and that neither the government nor the police can be held responsible for whatever violence they decide to inflict upon "unapproved" demonstrators. Evil Junta garanteed people more freedom than this "democratic" government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 (edited) Sunrise spent his 50th birthday posting his wind up barbs on Thaivisa, couldn't stop even for a big day.He might had legitimate reasons for his bitterness, initally, but by now his obsitnate desire to make a total ass out of himself and annoy shit out of others is entirely self-inflicted. I'm not sure that ignoring him is going to help him to get out of this cesspit he is drowning himself in, and he NEEDS help. Anyone? Good Samaritans? Jesus? Don't worry; be happy! Cheers; sorry about your bad day! It'll get better, it always does! Any light shed on Samak's desire to have the police stop folks from wearing t-shirts that say "People of Chinese Descent to Save the Country" as reported on page 1 of today's Post would be most appreciated. Why would anti-government protesters wear these shirts? The allusion to that slogan begs some serious media investigation. How popular are these shirts? Does the slogan represent the thinking of a sizeable portion of the PAD- or is it just a trumped up 'issue' to portray the PAD as fundamentally rascist? The story suggests that the writer acknowledges the presence of these t-shirts- yet the only time I have heard of a racial tint to the PAD was when Sonthi L claimed that his constituency was primarly the Chinese middle class. This is a potentially and very dangerous new twist- which will probably- and perhaps reasonably- be taken to mean that those of Chinese descent will save the country- from those of NON-Chinese descent- from, in short- Thais. Samak... My wife is half-Chinese and proud of it (dad moved here when he was 3, 70 years ago) and got upset a few times about my comments towards China until I had to explain to her that I have nothing in particular about her family nor the Chinese people but mainly the way the country is run and how it`s people are trated and abused. She would have surely have reacted to this but it seems she saw absolutely nothing wrong with this, she is well aware of it and we even had a good laugh aboiut it many timesd watching ASTV, Sondhi even sang a famous Chinese song for Samak on stage The t-shirts have all sold in a flash when they were made by the way. Maybe he`s poking at Thaksin and saying that even his proudest zombies are slowly changing their views on the Little Emperor in exile part of the time and are about to change camp en masse now that his court cases are rolling in. The PDA crowd is made of people from all provinces and backgrounds, no controversy there as well as far as I know... Edited August 8, 2008 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 All kinds of strikes happen in Europe almost on the monthly basis. I bet having railways shut down completely causes a lot more inconvenience than tight traffic around one single bridge. I also just read somewhere that Lindon Johnson decided not to run for the second term because his heavy handed approach to Vietnam war protests backfired. I won't argue about that - it was just someone's opinion. For people living in the vicinity of any road/bridge/BTS/MRT construction, PAD's rally is a minor nuisance by comparison. The proposed bill said that all demonstrations need government approval, and that neither the government nor the police can be held responsible for whatever violence they decide to inflict upon "unapproved" demonstrators. Evil Junta garanteed people more freedom than this "democratic" government. Nobody as far as I know denies PAD has a right to demonstrate and protest.That is a fundamental right of a democratic society, the kind incidentally the PAD leadership dislikes so much and would like to undermine.At the same time in every democratic society there are also restrictions imposed on assemblies and demonstrations so there is no due disruption of citizens daily life.Your comparison of PAD's behaviour with construction work disruption is specious.PAD has always sought to test limits and its appalling actions at Government House recently would not have been tolerated in say Western democracies.As a columnist in today's Bangkok Post points out the PAD leadership is becoming "nuttier by the day", and it seems to me perfectly reasonable gatherings they support should be restricted by law so as not to inconvenience the majority.Perhaps the government should take a leaf out of the Chinese Governments book and find some form of deserted field on the outskirts of the city for the PAD rabble, most of whom as Meerkat pointed out recently probably have no real idea of why they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 .Perhaps the government should take a leaf out of the Chinese Governments book and find some form of... How's that for honesty! Way to go, Younghusband. Last year the junta appointed NLA rejected this bill, btw, they were worried about lost freedoms, something obviously lost on you in your search for "democracy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baanthale Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 .Perhaps the government should take a leaf out of the Chinese Governments book and find some form of... How's that for honesty! Way to go, Younghusband. Last year the junta appointed NLA rejected this bill, btw, they were worried about lost freedoms, something obviously lost on you in your search for "democracy". How about you learn how to quote someones posts? Not ripping out a half sentence of text in the middle of a content. At least use full sentences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Would it change anything? I don't see how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baanthale Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Would it change anything? I don't see how. Not change anything? Why did you not quote the full post then? If you don't understand, maybe you should read his post one more time. But I know your strategy by now, not listen to anyone, just continue PAD rally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 If I want to draw attention to one point from the post, I quote that point. There's no need to quote any other stuff, I'm not commenting on that. No matter how many times you read the whole post, parts of the post, right to left or from bottom up - YH's proposal to use Chinese methods to control dissent is a surprising admission of what he thinks should be a fair way to deal with PAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baanthale Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 If I want to draw attention to one point from the post, I quote that point. There's no need to quote any other stuff, I'm not commenting on that. So I was right You are willing to pick out pieces from anyones posts, and just change meanings of it. Not a fair player.No matter how many times you read the whole post, parts of the post, right to left or from bottom up - YH's proposal to use Chinese methods to control dissent is a surprising admission of what he thinks should be a fair way to deal with PAD. You know, I think he wanted to say that democracy is good, very good, but it's not all about rights, it also includes responsibility, and even you should admit that PAD are not really good at the responsibility bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meerkat Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 First of all it looks like the government has quietly dropped the idea, so perhaps the whole point is now moot anyway. One of Samak's many faults is the ease with which he gets goaded into coming up with ill thought-out notions like these IMO. However, whilst freedoms of speech and assembly are central tenets of any aspiring democratic form of government, these rights should not come without certain responsibilities - essentially that the exercising of such freedoms should not impinge upon the freedoms of others. Pretty common sense really. Pundit has done a fairly comprehensive breakdown of how other countries - countries with more mature systems of democracy from where many of us here originate - deal with managing the freedom of assembly. The US, the EU and others all put some restrictions on public gatherings; many countries also demand that notice (6 weeks in Australia's case) be given before public roads are closed for protests. Where's the outrage at these "limits" on our freedoms at home? Limited to the fringes, because as any reasonable person well knows, none of these states are trying to censor debate and limit free speech as PAD supporters would have you believe they are here, just to make sure that the rights of the protestors are balanced by the rights of the public at large. I don't see why Thailand should be any different - indeed I think that's what the constitution's framers had in mind as you can read below. The bizarre thing about Samak's wanting to change the clause in question is that there are already provisions in the very same section of the constitution to limit such gatherings: A person shall enjoy the liberty to assemble peacefully and without arms. The restriction on such liberty under paragraph one shall not be imposed except by virtue of the law specifically enacted for the purpose of public assembling and for securing public convenience in the use of public places or for the maintenance of public order during the time when the country is in a state of war, or when a state of emergency or martial law is declared. The second paragraph seemingly provides grounds to limit protests in public places even without a State of Emergency - I guess that's the sub-section that was in the minds of the judges in the school's case against the PAD. I've read that some of what's said on stage is also slanderous - there are already laws in place to sue for such slander (another example of freedom of speech coming with responsibilities). Rather than attempt to change the constitution, there seems ample grounds for the PAD's adversaries to take some form of action against them within the existing confines of the constitution. One thing I am surprised about is that the PAD are allowed to publicly urge the military and police to overthrow an elected government. That counts as sedition in my book and I'd have expected there to be a provision in law to prevent that, as there is in many other countries including the US. Editing to add in light of the preceding few posts: Personally I'm not a fan of roping off protesters to some forgotten corner, but it's not just the Chinese who do it; just this week in the US a court has ruled that protesters at the DNC conference in Denver must be fenced in because "security needs outweighed curbs on their rights." Funny old world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 .Perhaps the government should take a leaf out of the Chinese Governments book and find some form of... How's that for honesty! Way to go, Younghusband. To be honest I assumed you would have twigged my last sentence was an attempt at comic irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 To be honest I didn't believe you really wanted to ship PAD off to Chatuchak. I understand the need for the law to regulate protests, but now it comes from Samak's mouth, and barely a week after the yet unpunished mob attack in Udon. He obviously got his priorities wrong. Glad the issue has been dropped. And, btw, PAD gets its permissions from BMA, it's not like they are free to block any road they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) Anti-Thaksin group to march to British Embassy The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) plans to march to the British embassy here on Tuesday to rebut critical remarks made by Thailand's fugitive ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra against the Thai judiciary system, a PAD core member said Saturday. Pipop Thongchai, a core leader of the PAD, said the protest coalitions members and supporters would march from the Makkawan Bridge to the British Embassy with the purpose of explaining to the international community that charges made by Thaksin against the Thai judiciary system were untrue. Mr. Pipop said he would also explain to the embassy that Thaksin, his wife Pojaman and the ousted cabinet ministers are also facing charges pending in court. He emphasized that the planned march to the embassy in central Bangkok would be peaceful. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=129695 Edited August 16, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) Thaksin's going to like this one, protests in English from the British Embassy in Bangkok rebroadcast around the world. How he loooved the spotlight... The PAD stage now bears giant arrest warrants pictures of Thaksin and wife. Edited August 17, 2008 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) PPP Spokesman criticizes Sondhi for playing up former PMs arrest warrant Spokesman for the People Power Party Lieutenant Kuthep Saikrajang criticized People's Alliance for Democracy leader Sondhi Limthongkul for publicly presenting with the intent to defame the arrest warrant for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The PPP spokesman stated that the former PM is not evading the warrant as he has clearly stated his address while saying that the PAD Leader has no duty to reveal the details of the matter as it is in the hands of the legal system's of both Thailand the United Kingdom. Lt. Kuthep asked that the deposed premier's rights be respected while reminding that the issue surrounding Doctor Thaksin actually has little impact on the nation's politics. The spokesman affirmed that Doctor Thaksin was not financially supporting the PPP as alleged by the Democrat Party. - ThaiNews / 17-08-08 Edited August 17, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 the former PM is not evading the warrant He's not??? Then what happened? Did he get on the wrong plane accidentily when he left Beijing??? Thaksin actually has little impact on the nation's politics. He doesn't??? History seems to dispel that completely. Thaksin was not financially supporting the PPP He's not??? Then why is the PPP spokesman expending so much energy to protect someone who isn't a member of PPP... and indeed, "has quit politics"??? It's not like Thaksin has a shortage of his own spokespeople. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 There's always hope for Thailand when progress on any level is achieved... No Chaos during PAD Seminar in Udon Thani A planned anti-government gathering in Udon Thani province ran without any disturbances, though there were clashes between the pro and anti-government groups in the area last month. Yesterday's political seminar held by supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD at the city hall of Udon Thani province ran without any problems, though a pro-government group in the area earlier vowed to do every thing possible to bar anti-government rallies from taking place in the province. However, some 700 police officers were assigned to oversee security around the rally site to prevent possible chaos between the pro and anti-government groups. On the stage, several political activists rotated in speaking to the rally-goers about the failures of the Samak Sundaravej administration in handling public administration and presented their viewpoints about political reform. PAD supporters in Udon Thani province had previously planned to hold the seminar at Thung Srimuang public park in the downtown area, but its municipal government did not allow the group to hold its activities and placed ten fire trucks to block the park's entrance. A pro-government group in Udon Thani province last month clashed with PAD supporters during its anti government rally at Nong Prajak public park. The clash injured several PAD supporters. - Thailand Outlook / 18 August 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) I don't know what thread pertains to the PAD now, but since the other one is locked, I will try this one. Hammered, I meant to say that everyone is now talking about Tuesday's final demonstration instead of my typo of everyone is not talking about it. Seems that this one is to be the grand finale. Edited August 23, 2008 by Old Man River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I don't know what thread pertains to the PAD now, but since the other one is locked, I will try this one. Hammered, I meant to say that everyone is now talking about Tuesday's final demonstration instead of my typo of everyone is not talking about it. Seems that this one is to be the grand finale. Has it been said that Tuesday's protest will be the last one? If so, was there any given reason why it would be the last. I guess either the govt will resign or there will be large raffle prizes handed around at the end of the protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 They know something we don`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 somebody's birthday is Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Chamlong says PAD will not halt protest after mass rally on Tuesday Chamlong Srimuang, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Saturday dismissed speculation that the PAD would halt rallies after a mass demonstration planned on Tuesday. Chamlong said the PAD would make a big march to several important locations on Tuesday. He said the PAD would announce the names of the places that day. He said the PAD would continue its rallies after the mass demonstration on Tuesday until its goal to oust the government is achieved. The Nation The Mystery continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 more is revealed... People's Alliance Not to Halt Protest after Mass Rally on Tuesday Core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, Chamlong Srimuang insisted that the final whistle blowing for the rally on Tuesday August 26th does not imply that the group is trying to stop the gathering and the rally is not aimed at political gain. The PAD will continue the rally at Makkhawan Bridge in Bangkok until the Cabinet resigns, following the failure of the government to run the country. Chamlong believes that a large number of the nationwide PAD networks will attend the gathering in the capital on Tuesday, causing the government to react to the group. He said the group will stage a mobile rally harmoniously in several major destinations for the last whistle blowing, to press the government to leave without any violence. The PAD core leader confirmed there is no conflict among the security personnel of the group, as mentioned by Deputy Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua. He said such a claim aims to discredit the PAD. Chamlong also clarified about the opening of a post office box from August 20th to September 5th to provide financial assistance from the public to ASTV. He said the move is his own decision, not a request of PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul, because he wants the TV station to pass its current critical situation. On Monday, August 25th, the PAD mobile rally will gather in the Kiakkai area at 10 am to show their support for Yothinburana School students and nearby residents in protesting the construction of the new Parliament building. - Thailand Outlook / today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) Opposition Leader Urges Government to Accept People's Right to Protest Leader of the opposition Democrat Party Abhisit Vejjajiva stated the major rally against the government by the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, on September 26th *I believe that's an editing mistake and that August 26th is the intended date* must be held under legal framework a peaceful approach. Abhisit said that, meanwhile, the government needs to accept peoples' constitutional rights to hold a peaceful protest and has a responsibility to oversee security for rally-goers. The opposition leader believes the PAD's upcoming major rally will not result in a resignation of Samak Sundaravej's government. The Democrat's Leader also held a meeting today with the party's executives and its Bangkok councilors to discuss the election of Bangkok Governor to be held on October 5th. - Thailand Outlook / today ======================================================================= Abhisit says PAD's rallies cannot lead to changes in politics Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said Saturday that the People's Alliance for Democracy should ensure that its demonstrations will not cause trouble to the public. He said the rallies would not lead to changes in politics because any change should be made in line with the Constitution. - The Nation / today Edited August 23, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 more is revealed...People's Alliance Not to Halt Protest after Mass Rally on Tuesday Core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, Chamlong Srimuang insisted that the final whistle blowing for the rally on Tuesday August 26th does not imply that the group is trying to stop the gathering and the rally is not aimed at political gain. - Thailand Outlook / today Let me see. The final whistle blowing is Tuesday, but that doesn't mean the demonstrations will stop. Huh? They made a call for donations yesterday. Maybe they found a major donor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 more is revealed...People's Alliance Not to Halt Protest after Mass Rally on Tuesday Core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, Chamlong Srimuang insisted that the final whistle blowing for the rally on Tuesday August 26th does not imply that the group is trying to stop the gathering and the rally is not aimed at political gain. - Thailand Outlook / today Let me see. The final whistle blowing is Tuesday, but that doesn't mean the demonstrations will stop. Huh? They made a call for donations yesterday. Maybe they found a major donor. Samak;) He needs them to keep the constitutional ammendments away and keep himself as PM. Seriously as we settle in for long battle and with earstwhile PAD allies now deal making with Samak if they can we will see a change in PAD tactics. The question sremains what can break the logjam as a few more years of this and Tahiland will be in a real mess. right now government is doing nothing and had done nothing for years and bureaucrats are not going to put their necks on the line and do anything until they see a winner emerge. The country really does need to move away from egomaniacal and meglomaniacal power struggles. Central to this is Thaksin. Either he has to win outright, lose outright or a deal be done that satisfies him or we have to wait until the economy collapses totally or there is divine intervetion of the kind that needs no interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 more is revealed...People's Alliance Not to Halt Protest after Mass Rally on Tuesday Core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, Chamlong Srimuang insisted that the final whistle blowing for the rally on Tuesday August 26th does not imply that the group is trying to stop the gathering and the rally is not aimed at political gain. - Thailand Outlook / today Let me see. The final whistle blowing is Tuesday, but that doesn't mean the demonstrations will stop. Huh? They made a call for donations yesterday. Maybe they found a major donor. Central to this is Thaksin. Either he has to win outright, lose outright or a deal be done that satisfies him or we have to wait until the economy collapses totally or there is divine intervetion of the kind that needs no interpretation. Central to this is Thaksin and .... For these other guys there is only one possibility. How they get there doesn't matter, but they will get there. I have no doubt about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Samak has said on NBT TV this afternoon that he can't be responsible if bombs are thrown at demonstrators tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Samak has said on NBT TV this afternoon that he can't be responsible if bombs are thrown at demonstrators tomorrow. The pre-demo talk is usually aimed at scaring people from attending. I am quite sure that if bombs really go off the government are in big trouble. Here in Chonburi there one hel_l of a lot of buses chartered to go to Bangkok. Whether they make it past the roadblocks remains to be seen. I also saw something in todays Post where a southern organization were claiming they would take 100,000. If these all come off it signals a move in tactics by those opposing Thaksin and the PPP who have recently not given so much backing to the PAD. The recent criticism of the government's spending plans may also have an effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) Did Samak make the announcement because his point man on bombing PAD rallies is gone? Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung states that he has received a report on a possible attack by an ill-will group, wishing to interfere with the People's Alliance for Democracy rally and worsen the current conflict. Chalerm says the group is the same gang responsible for the New Year's bomb attack in nine areas throughout the metropolitan Chalerm calls for the PAD to take responsibility if chaos takes place. Obvious scare tactics - and a not so subtle attempt aimed at discouraging potential protesters from joining the rally. ..........it's blatantly obvious that the government is doing it's all - within it's means - to minimalise and eradicate this thorn - the PAD - from it's and it's puppet-masters - back-side! Edited August 25, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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