Budda V Jesus

[garro]

I'm curious. Don't believers feel just a little bit concerned that there are so many different varieties of religion out there and that if there is a god, then there are a hel_l of a lot of people that are going to be wrong and therefore go to hel_l?

You'd have to ask this on a Christian, Muslim, or whatever forum. Buddhism doesn't teach this, so no, I'm not concerned.

What's more, if there is a god, isn't this all powerful being more likely to be accepting of a person that genuinely has no belief and lives a good life than someone who preaches on TV and then drinks, whores and gambles other people's money away?

I would have thought so too, again best to ask this of people who hold those views.

Let's be honest, if I was a god and had built an unbelievably vast universe, with billions of planets, full of wonders, most likely containing millions of cultures, would I be so vain that I would ask these tiny beings, on a tiny blue planet to go to a temple/church/whatever and bow down to me on a regular basis? Does god need that sort of recognition? Stars are exploding, planets are forming, black holes are swallowing by the million and god is going to target Homer for sleeping in on a Sunday or little Johnny for having a tug in the toilet? How ludicrous.

I think of there was a god out there, then a good way of expressing himself would be to discourage ungodly behaviour like murder, rape, torture etc.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Do you have any views on non-theistic religions like Buddhism? As after all that's the topic of this forum.

My wife is a Buddhist, so it can't be all that bad. Is Buddhism the topic of the forum?

If you look at the top left hand side of this window you will see that this part of the forum is indeed the Buddhist community section.

[jumnien]

I would hardly call buddhism a non-theistic religion as it is practiced by the lovely Thai people. Phra Jao holds a very high place for them and the huge universe of spirits and heavens and hells is too fantastic to ignore.

True, but that's not what the Buddha taught.

I'm sure vagas's points apply just as much to modern Thai practices as to theistic religions but defining Buddhism based on modern Thai practices is a bit like defining Christianity based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

[garro]

I would hardly call buddhism a non-theistic religion as it is practiced by the lovely Thai people. Phra Jao holds a very high place for them and the huge universe of spirits and heavens and hells is too fantastic to ignore.

True, but that's not what the Buddha taught.

I'm sure vagas's points apply just as much to modern Thai practices as to theistic religions but defining Buddhism based on modern Thai practices is a bit like defining Christianity based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

There is an awful lot of respected people you are consigning to the looney bin there Sunrise.

[sgtpeppers]

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin.

I'm quite sure the Buddha did not teach any such nonsense.

[rockyysdt]

Hey Vegas.

The problem with humans is that they contain many beliefs in their subconsciousness.

The subconscious is the part of your brain that you're not aware of.

A significant number of your beliefs were implanted into your subconscious by your parents and carers as a child.

This was done during your impressionable years from birth to the age of six.

You can't remember them but they control what you believe.

The big kicker is that your life is controlled by the beliefs of others.

Sort of like your own little prison.

Buddhism teaches that regular practice of deep self awareness will allow you to see beyond these implanted beliefs allowing you to discover the real you.

Buddhism is not a religion (although many thais have turned it into one with customs and distortions) but a practice which allows you to discover the real you and learn the answer (whatever that is) through self experience.

It's up to you Vegas.

What's it going to be?

Live someone elses life and beliefs until you die, or discover the real Vegas which lies within.

[jumnien]

I would hardly call buddhism a non-theistic religion as it is practiced by the lovely Thai people. Phra Jao holds a very high place for them and the huge universe of spirits and heavens and hells is too fantastic to ignore.

True, but that's not what the Buddha taught.

I'm sure vagas's points apply just as much to modern Thai practices as to theistic religions but defining Buddhism based on modern Thai practices is a bit like defining Christianity based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

There is an awful lot of respected people you are consigning to the looney bin there Sunrise.

Let's keep it in the "now". Did you really hear the teachings as they really were? Or are you experiencing second-hand teachings as they really are? On what is your faith based when you imagine the buddha 2,500 years ago and imagine a connection to present day videos, online tutorials and books that purport to portray his teachings? I have nothing against leaps of faith, just those who refuse to admit that they are leaping!

[Brucenkhamen]

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

The scriptures contain well preserved accounts of the Buddhas life, of course you can't be sure that later disciples didn't embellish them that's why he taught us to test everything we hear rather than believe it blindly.

There is only glaring omission, he never claimed to be God or "Buddha Jao" as Thais call it, so if not believing that a man born and died 2500 is God makes me a looney then colour me a looney.

[Brucenkhamen]

Let's keep it in the "now". Did you really hear the teachings as they really were? Or are you experiencing second-hand teachings as they really are? On what is your faith based when you imagine the buddha 2,500 years ago and imagine a connection to present day videos, online tutorials and books that purport to portray his teachings? I have nothing against leaps of faith, just those who refuse to admit that they are leaping!

My faith is based on applying the techniques and principles taught by contemporary Buddhist teachers and seeing them work in my own life, then going on the applying some more.

If there is a leap somewhere in there I don't see it.

[jumnien]

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

The scriptures contain well preserved accounts of the Buddhas life, of course you can't be sure that later disciples didn't embellish them that's why he taught us to test everything we hear rather than believe it blindly.

There is only glaring omission, he never claimed to be God or "Buddha Jao" as Thais call it, so if not believing that a man born and died 2500 is God makes me a looney then colour me a looney.

You just have a lot more of a "faith-based" orientation than myself on this matter. In my mind, buddha may have existed, he may not have, he may have said he was God, he may not have; it is really beyond by experience say for certain. If believing that he existed and said exactly what is attributed to him 2,500 years ago inspires and motivates you to be a better person than by all means continue in this faith. A lowly man such as myself has a hard time knowing what happened 75 years ago; what happened and what people said 2,500 years ago is overwhelming when I try to imagine it.

[Brucenkhamen]

You just have a lot more of a "faith-based" orientation than myself on this matter. In my mind, buddha may have existed, he may not have, he may have said he was God, he may not have; it is really beyond by experience say for certain. If believing that he existed and said exactly what is attributed to him 2,500 years ago inspires and motivates you to be a better person than by all means continue in this faith. A lowly man such as myself has a hard time knowing what happened 75 years ago; what happened and what people said 2,500 years ago is overwhelming when I try to imagine it.

In my mind, the sun may rise again tomorrow, it may not, it is really beyond by experience say for certain, but I can make a pretty dam_n confident assumption.

I don't know for sure that Ceaser beat the Gauls at Alesia but I'm willing to trust the historians that they've based their findings on enough historical evidence so see no reason to question it.

I don't know for sure that Henry VIII had a daughter called Elizabeth but I'm willing to trust the historians that they've based their findings on enough historical evidence so see no reason to question it.

I don't know for sure that 2500 years ago a man called Gautama Siddhartha taught a way to find freedom from suffering and didn't claim to be God but I'm willing to trust the historians that they've based their findings on enough historical evidence so see no reason to question it.

Even if the above is not true my present day practice of those teachings is based on trying it out and seeing if it works one step and a time, my inspiration and motivation is based on that, and whether or not an historical figure started it all is irrelavent.

[jumnien]

Bravo, Bruce! You are beginning to see the light! Keep on truckin'...

[vegas]

Hey Vegas.

The problem with humans is that they contain many beliefs in their subconsciousness.

The subconscious is the part of your brain that you're not aware of.

A significant number of your beliefs were implanted into your subconscious by your parents and carers as a child.

This was done during your impressionable years from birth to the age of six.

You can't remember them but they control what you believe.

The big kicker is that your life is controlled by the beliefs of others.

Sort of like your own little prison.

Buddhism teaches that regular practice of deep self awareness will allow you to see beyond these implanted beliefs allowing you to discover the real you.

Buddhism is not a religion (although many thais have turned it into one with customs and distortions) but a practice which allows you to discover the real you and learn the answer (whatever that is) through self experience.

It's up to you Vegas.

What's it going to be?

Live someone elses life and beliefs until you die, or discover the real Vegas which lies within.

Thanks, but I'm quite happy with my own beliefs, or lack of them.

[jumnien]

"Buddhism is not a religion (although many thais have turned it into one with customs and distortions) but a practice which allows you to discover the real you and learn the answer (whatever that is) through self experience."

Sounds like self-centeredness to me. All this discovering the real you and "self" experience; better to get out of yourself and enjoy life!

[Brucenkhamen]

Sounds like self-centeredness to me. All this discovering the real you and "self" experience; better to get out of yourself and enjoy life!

Therein lies the irony, they are two sides of the same coin.

And, no, I didn't read it in a 2500 year old book it's just the way I see things through my own experience.

I could go out and do all the things that the world tells me are supposed to be enjoyable and when I have time to pause wonder why I still feel a residue of dissatifaction with it all, seems like being a mouse on a treadmill to me. Or I could examine life and learn to see it in a whole new objective way and enjoy living life due to a greater sense of balance and clarity.

[Brucenkhamen]

Bravo, Bruce! You are beginning to see the light! Keep on truckin'...

Gee thanks. Where do I sign up to join the church of the "Risen Sun 07"?

[garro]

I would hardly call buddhism a non-theistic religion as it is practiced by the lovely Thai people. Phra Jao holds a very high place for them and the huge universe of spirits and heavens and hells is too fantastic to ignore.

True, but that's not what the Buddha taught.

I'm sure vagas's points apply just as much to modern Thai practices as to theistic religions but defining Buddhism based on modern Thai practices is a bit like defining Christianity based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

There is an awful lot of respected people you are consigning to the looney bin there Sunrise.

Let's keep it in the "now". Did you really hear the teachings as they really were? Or are you experiencing second-hand teachings as they really are? On what is your faith based when you imagine the buddha 2,500 years ago and imagine a connection to present day videos, online tutorials and books that purport to portray his teachings? I have nothing against leaps of faith, just those who refuse to admit that they are leaping!

If I insisted on only trusting in those things which I had witnessed myself then that would be a fast route to the looney bin or to the local hospital. I trust that the words of the Buddha have been passed from person to person in much the same way that information about anything else has reached me. If it makes sense to me and works then I will trust it. If someone I respect and trust claims that these are the words of the Buddha then I will tend to trust them and attribute the words to the Buddha. Maybe they're lying, but for me their words are the truth until proven otherwise.

Now you might claim 'ahh, but..' that is a leap of faith, but everything is a leap of faith. If I were to add this element of being aware of the leap of faith, to every statement that I say, then people would think I was mad and I would not be able to function in the modern world. The mere act of saying my name would involve hours of thoughtful analysis and probing questions. I would need to tell my son that while I think it is bad for him to drink poison or put his hand in the fan that I don't really know as I have never tried it and that anyway he won't know until he tries it himself. No sorry Sunrise, this wouldn't work in my world, but perhaps it can work for you.

[Brucenkhamen]

If I insisted on only trusting in those things which I had witnessed myself then that would be a fast route to the looney bin or to the local hospital. I trust that the words of the Buddha have been passed from person to person in much the same way that information about anything else has reached me. If it makes sense to me and works then I will trust it. If someone I respect and trust claims that these are the words of the Buddha then I will tend to trust them and attribute the words to the Buddha. Maybe they're lying, but for me their words are the truth until proven otherwise.

Now you might claim 'ahh, but..' that is a leap of faith, but everything is a leap of faith. If I were to add this element of being aware of the leap of faith, to every statement that I say, then people would think I was mad and I would not be able to function in the modern world. The mere act of saying my name would involve hours of thoughtful analysis and probing questions. I would need to tell my son that while I think it is bad for him to drink poison or put his hand in the fan that I don't really know as I have never tried it and that anyway he won't know until he tries it himself. No sorry Sunrise, this wouldn't work in my world, but perhaps it can work for you.

Good call. In such a reasonable world, though, where would those who get a thrill from nit picking get their enjoyment?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Brucenkhamen

[jumnien]

I would hardly call buddhism a non-theistic religion as it is practiced by the lovely Thai people. Phra Jao holds a very high place for them and the huge universe of spirits and heavens and hells is too fantastic to ignore.

True, but that's not what the Buddha taught.

I'm sure vagas's points apply just as much to modern Thai practices as to theistic religions but defining Buddhism based on modern Thai practices is a bit like defining Christianity based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Those who claim to know what the buddha taught usually are reserved a place in the local looney bin. 2,500 years ago is a long time. Most of us just read the legends attributed to a man named buddha in the same manner as we do the legends of Robin Hood. They are great legends and contain great wisdom.

There is an awful lot of respected people you are consigning to the looney bin there Sunrise.

Let's keep it in the "now". Did you really hear the teachings as they really were? Or are you experiencing second-hand teachings as they really are? On what is your faith based when you imagine the buddha 2,500 years ago and imagine a connection to present day videos, online tutorials and books that purport to portray his teachings? I have nothing against leaps of faith, just those who refuse to admit that they are leaping!

If I insisted on only trusting in those things which I had witnessed myself then that would be a fast route to the looney bin or to the local hospital. I trust that the words of the Buddha have been passed from person to person in much the same way that information about anything else has reached me. If it makes sense to me and works then I will trust it. If someone I respect and trust claims that these are the words of the Buddha then I will tend to trust them and attribute the words to the Buddha. Maybe they're lying, but for me their words are the truth until proven otherwise.

Now you might claim 'ahh, but..' that is a leap of faith, but everything is a leap of faith. If I were to add this element of being aware of the leap of faith, to every statement that I say, then people would think I was mad and I would not be able to function in the modern world. The mere act of saying my name would involve hours of thoughtful analysis and probing questions. I would need to tell my son that while I think it is bad for him to drink poison or put his hand in the fan that I don't really know as I have never tried it and that anyway he won't know until he tries it himself. No sorry Sunrise, this wouldn't work in my world, but perhaps it can work for you.

I think you are confused. It was others who seemed to be taking a more scientific approach and refusing to believe things and trying everything for themselves. I rely on faith and on things I cannot see or explain. That is the mystery of life and in that passion lie all good things!

[Brucenkhamen]

I think you are confused. It was others who seemed to be taking a more scientific approach and refusing to believe things and trying everything for themselves.

Who dares do such a thing?

I rely on faith and on things I cannot see or explain. That is the mystery of life and in that passion lie all good things!

That's a good approach, one I think the Buddha (if I may be so bold to say (if he did indeed exist)) would commend you on.

Of course there is a point where that becomes a cop-out, where someone refuses to acknowledge reasonable assumptions or make a stand on anything.

[rockyysdt]

Sounds like self-centeredness to me. All this discovering the real you and "self" experience; better to get out of yourself and enjoy life!

The problem with enjoying life is that we all have different ideas of what that entails.

Our subconscious has a big part to play in the things we think are enjoyable or result in a good time.

Much of our subconscious is made up uccumulated beliefs, many belonging to carers, who we observed as infants.

An example of an apparent good time:

A friend of mine downed over 20 pots of beer at the pub with his mates the other night.

He was pretty crook the next morning. He looked quite pale and had to run off to the toilet a couple of times with diarrhoea.

Nursing a doozy of a hangover, he ended up staying home that day.

He said: "I had a really great time last night".

I asked him: "What was so good about it?"

He replied, "If I can't remember anything I know I had a good time".

Did he have a good time? He thinks he did!

A set of beliefs (most probably someone elses) control what you think is a good time whether it is or not.

Experiencing a deep level of self awareness (looking at yourself underneath the subconscious clutter) is how you discover what is really meaningful to you, and which gives true enjoyment in life.

It may sound like a lot of things (quote: self-centeredness) but all it is, is taking the time to listen to yourself.

Most don't.

Edited June 30, 2008 by rockyysdt

[RakJungTorlae]

Sounds like self-centeredness to me. All this discovering the real you and "self" experience; better to get out of yourself and enjoy life!

The problem with enjoying life is that we all have different ideas of what that entails.

Our subconscious has a big part to play in the things we think are enjoyable or result in a good time.

Much of our subconscious is made up uccumulated beliefs, many belonging to carers, who we observed as infants.

An example of an apparent good time:

A friend of mine downed over 20 pots of beer at the pub with his mates the other night.

He was pretty crook the next morning. He looked quite pale and had to run off to the toilet a couple of times with diarrhoea.

Nursing a doozy of a hangover, he ended up staying home that day.

He said: "I had a really great time last night".

I asked him: "What was so good about it?"

He replied, "If I can't remember anything I know I had a good time".

Did he have a good time? He thinks he did!

A set of beliefs (most probably someone elses) control what you think is a good time whether it is or not.

Experiencing a deep level of self awareness (looking at yourself underneath the subconscious clutter) is how you discover what is really meaningful to you, and which gives true enjoyment in life.

It may sound like a lot of things (quote: self-centeredness) but all it is, is taking the time to listen to yourself.

Most don't.

All I learn form this story is that if we chose to have a crazy night then we will pay for it the next day. So if we chose to have a crazy life we will pay for in the after life, with all our memory erased

[rockyysdt]

Thanks, but I'm quite happy with my own beliefs, or lack of them.

That's one of the problems in life Vegas.

Subconscious beliefs are extremely powerful and you don't know what they are.

Everytime you try to change or improve your life, eventually you give up and go back to your old habits.

If you have bad habits then you're in trouble.

Practicing Self Awareness allows you to see these beliefs for what they are and take control of your life.

On the other hand, if that sounds like too much effort, following your subconscious programming is effortless.

As they say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks". - No reference to you.

[jumnien]

Being imprisoned in self-awareness brings suffering into life. Let your awareness of self dissipate into consciousness of life and others and you will blossom like a beautiful flower.

[rockyysdt]

Being imprisoned in self-awareness brings suffering into life. Let your awareness of self dissipate into consciousness of life and others and you will blossom like a beautiful flower.

I understand what you're saying.

The idea is to try it.

If it doesn't stack up, then walk away.

It's all about flexibility and being able to change.

[vegas]

Thanks, but I'm quite happy with my own beliefs, or lack of them.

That's one of the problems in life Vegas.

Subconscious beliefs are extremely powerful and you don't know what they are.

Everytime you try to change or improve your life, eventually you give up and go back to your old habits.

If you have bad habits then you're in trouble.

Practicing Self Awareness allows you to see these beliefs for what they are and take control of your life.

On the other hand, if that sounds like too much effort, following your subconscious programming is effortless.

As they say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks". - No reference to you.

I've just changed jobs and had a daughter. This old mongrel is learning new tricks everyday.

[rockyysdt]

I've just changed jobs and had a daughter. This old mongrel is learning new tricks everyday.

Vegas.

Can I ask?

What jobs have you held in the past?

What is the new job?

Have you had children in the past?

Is your new daughter from a new wife?.

How old are you?

R

[sabaijai]

I've just changed jobs and had a daughter. This old mongrel is learning new tricks everyday.

Vegas.

Can I ask?

What jobs have you held in the past?

What is the new job?

Have you had children in the past?

Is your new daughter from a new wife?.

How old are you?

R

These are questions best asked and answered via PM.

[Ajarn_Jonesy]

Good point Captain.

I think the scriptures were written without supervision, much of it well after the death of Jesus.

The important thing is not to get lost in the detail, but to seek the answers through experience.

One could suggest that our physical life, immersed in all its suffering, is our hel_l.

Heaven may be unification with infinity, and not that perfect garden where only nice things happen.

Most Christian thought appears to be from the Dark Ages.

Correct me if I am wrong, but couldn't the same be said for the written teachings of Buddha?

Truth be told no matter what path you choose, it ALL comes back to our ability to CHOOSE what is Right for ourselves.

[pampal]

Buddha vs Jesus

Sounds like a sellout pay per view event

get out the boxing gloves or is it full contact

either way I would pay the 50 bucks to see it

[muaythaifarang]

After listening to a talk two days ago from a local Abbot he was saying "NO ONE KNOWS WHO IS RIGHT" we can only go on believing in what we believe and we will find out when we pass. I thought that was a very humble point of view.