Planning Question

[KBTexas]

Hi all,

I am not ready to retire and move to Thailand just yet, but have a few questions for the resident experts. Any insight/help you might offer on them would be very much appreciated.

I live in Texas in the US. I am in a long term relationship with a teacher who will retire from teaching in 2011. I will retire here in 2013. When she retires, she will move here for the 2.5 years until I retire, and we will then (probably) move back to Thailand. The last year before she retires, we will be legally married here before she returns to Thailand and I will apply for the K3 visa then. Her present visa is a tourist visa.

So, my first question is, is Thailand like the US in that you can apply for a permanent visa if your spouse is Thai? (like a green card) I see posts about visa runs and the like. Is this a fact of life there, and I will do this at least once a year, every year, when I move there?

Second question: If there is a not a green card equivilency, what visa is needed to move there? I read about retirement visas and the like, but was wondering if there was a marriage visa, without the need for an 800,000 baht bank account?

Thirdly: If there is a marriage visa, will I be allowed to open a business there? We are looking at opening a small cafe. It would not be a problem opening it in her name, but it would be a joint venture.

And finally, and this has nothing to do with visas, but with general law, what is the law about private ownership of firearms in Thailand? I am an old Marine, and own a few firearms. Is it legal for me to own them in Thailand if I am not a citizen of Thailand?

Thanks for any info or insight you may offer...

[Maestro]

What is your nationality? At one point you say your are an “old Marine”, which would indicate that you are a US national. At another point you say you “will apply for the K3”, which is a visa to enter the USA and thus indicates that you are not a US national.

Your wife-to-be is a Thai national, I understand from your topic title.

What will be your age and the age of your future wife at the time of your move to Thailand?

The answers to these questions will get you more specific replies to your post.

--

Maestro

[lopburi3]

If you do not use retirement extensions of stay you will have to prove 40k per month family income to extend on a yearly basis. The next step would be permanent residence but that is not something automatic and without history of tax payment on 80k per month income over a three year period it is probably not likely. Most people will have to use the 40k family income or the retirement 65k or 800k in bank methods the remainder of there lives.

There is nothing like a green card.

You must have a work permit to work regardless of anything else.

Firearms are strictly controlled so it is likely to involve a great deal of paperwork/money to import.

[KBTexas]

I am a US citizen. My wife is a Thai citizen. The K3 is for her to come here until I retire. I will be ~63 and she will be ~50 when I move to Thailand.

What is your nationality? At one point you say your are an "old Marine", which would indicate that you are a US national. At another point you say you "will apply for the K3", which is a visa to enter the USA and thus indicates that you are not a US national.

Your wife-to-be is a Thai national, I understand from your topic title.

What will be your age and the age of your future wife at the time of your move to Thailand?

The answers to these questions will get you more specific replies to your post.

--

Maestro

[KBTexas]

40k (I assume you mean baht?) monthly income is not a problem. So basically, if we have income of 80k a month for 3 years, I can apply for permanent residency? What is the retirement 65k? I only know of the 800k in the bank.

How hard is it to get a work permit?

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

If you do not use retirement extensions of stay you will have to prove 40k per month family income to extend on a yearly basis. The next step would be permanent residence but that is not something automatic and without history of tax payment on 80k per month income over a three year period it is probably not likely. Most people will have to use the 40k family income or the retirement 65k or 800k in bank methods the remainder of there lives.

There is nothing like a green card.

You must have a work permit to work regardless of anything else.

Firearms are strictly controlled so it is likely to involve a great deal of paperwork/money to import.

[lopburi3]

It is much more involved that just income - you need Thai language, meet various conditions and pay 100,000 baht and it normally takes a few years under review. It provides little unless you go further and obtain citizenship in another process. And this is very seldom obtained by males. At age 60+ do not believe there will be much chance (they have not allowed anyone on retirement many years). And even with that you are under review every few years so for young people it is a benefit but for older much less so. If you read the pinned items at top of this forum you will get a good idea on what is what.

Income in letter from your Embassy at 65k per month, 800k in Thai bank account for 3 months prior to application or a combination is retirement extension of stay from a non immigrant O visa requirement.

You have to find an employer that can obtain for you (not easy) or you have to set up company/employment in a field a foreigner is allowed to work. Most employment for Americans seems to be English language teacher and many, perhaps most, even in this field are not able to obtain work permits and have one eye out for police.

[KBTexas]

Ah, thanks for the input lopburi. So, I guess our best bet is to just put the 800k in a Thai bank. Then it would not be a problem.

So, if we started a business together, I could not legally work in it? How strange. We would like to start a small cafe that caters to western tastes. One thing I miss a lot when I go to Thailand is western style deli sandwiches. ;-) My wife is a Thai English teacher, and I have no desire to teach English, though I might do adult volunteer classes if there is an interest, unless that is also illegal. I try hard to follow the rules, but many of the rules there seem contradictory.

Again, thanks for the input. I do read much of the site, but get confused at all the options. ;-)

It is much more involved that just income - you need Thai language, meet various conditions and pay 100,000 baht and it normally takes a few years under review. It provides little unless you go further and obtain citizenship in another process. And this is very seldom obtained by males. At age 60+ do not believe there will be much chance (they have not allowed anyone on retirement many years). And even with that you are under review every few years so for young people it is a benefit but for older much less so. If you read the pinned items at top of this forum you will get a good idea on what is what.

Income in letter from your Embassy at 65k per month, 800k in Thai bank account for 3 months prior to application or a combination is retirement extension of stay from a non immigrant O visa requirement.

You have to find an employer that can obtain for you (not easy) or you have to set up company/employment in a field a foreigner is allowed to work. Most employment for Americans seems to be English language teacher and many, perhaps most, even in this field are not able to obtain work permits and have one eye out for police.

Edited June 22, 2008 by KBTexas

[Lite Beer]

Yes . 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank would get you a years extension based on Retirement. You would have to apply every year. Also you would have to report your address to Immigration every 90 days.

To get it based on Marriage you need a family of 40,000 Baht a month Plus interviews for you and your Wife, home visit, interview with neighbours, photos of you and your Wife in and around the house etc.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Lite Beer

[whatchamacallit]

So, if we started a business together, I could not legally work in it? How strange..

Yes indeed - TIT. You can however apply for a work permit.

We would like to start a small cafe that caters to western tastes. One thing I miss a lot when I go to Thailand is western style deli sandwiches.

Bad idea! Bad Idea!!

;-) My wife is a Thai English teacher, and I have no desire to teach English, though I might do adult volunteer classes if there is an interest, unless that is also illegal.

Yes you must have work permit even doing Volunteer work - TIT

I try hard to follow the rules, but many of the rules there seem contradictory.

Yes - when you live here you will learn it the hard way, like many of us - TIT

Again, thanks for the input. I do read much of the site, but get confused at all the options. ;-)

This is Thailand (TIT), so making everything very confusing is their way of life :-) We're only guests here and we get used to it

[KBTexas]

Heh, ok, I get the rest of it...when in Rome, etc., but why is this a bad idea? There are McDonalds and Burger Kings all over, as well as all the other "mall" type fast food places.

We would like to start a small cafe that caters to western tastes. One thing I miss a lot when I go to Thailand is western style deli sandwiches.

Bad idea! Bad Idea!!

Edited June 22, 2008 by KBTexas

[KBTexas]

To get one based on marriage (no problem with pictures, etc., and no problem with neighbors once I move there full time), is there any benefit? e.g. you do not need to register every year?

To get it based on Marriage you need a family of 40,000 Baht a month Plus interviews for you and your Wife, home visit, interview with neighbours, photos of you and your Wife in and around the house etc.

[Lite Beer]

To get one based on marriage (no problem with pictures, etc., and no problem with neighbors once I move there full time), is there any benefit? e.g. you do not need to register every year?

To get it based on Marriage you need a family of 40,000 Baht a month Plus interviews for you and your Wife, home visit, interview with neighbours, photos of you and your Wife in and around the house etc.

The only benefit is less money needed. 40,000 Baht a month income. Letter from your Embassy needed to verify this. Or if it is your Wifes income ,she will need record of tax payments

You have to re apply every year, same as the retirement option. Also have to report your address to Immigration every 90 days.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Lite Beer

[lopburi3]

Retirement is much less paperwork (for everyone) and you can do it yourself in one visit - marriage will require spouse to be interviewed each year and two visits as it is not approved on day of application and may require police visits to home to check on your marriage status.

[KBTexas]

Thanks for the info. I guess we'll see when the time comes. I don't really see either as being an issue unless the dollar keeps tanking.

If it is the same deal on renewal and reporting, either will work I think, though the marriage deal might have other benefits. Is there any difference in the cost of the renewal?

The only benefit is less money needed. 40,000 Baht a month income. Letter from your Embassy needed to verify this. Or if it is your Wifes income ,she will need record of tax payments

You have to re apply every year, same as the retirement option. Also have to report your address to Immigration every 90 days.

[KBTexas]

Heheh, wow! Never mind! (in best Rosana Dana voice) We'll do the retirement thing. Do they have something against marriage in Thailand? Or just marriage between Thai nationals and Westerners? That is even crazier than here!

Retirement is much less paperwork (for everyone) and you can do it yourself in one visit - marriage will require spouse to be interviewed each year and two visits as it is not approved on day of application and may require police visits to home to check on your marriage status.

Edited June 23, 2008 by KBTexas

[Lite Beer]

Heheh, wow! Never mind! (in best Rosana Dana voice) We'll do the retirement thing. Do they have something against marriage in Thailand? Or just marriage between Thai nationals and Westerners? That is even crazier than here!

Retirement is much less paperwork (for everyone) and you can do it yourself in one visit - marriage will require spouse to be interviewed each year and two visits as it is not approved on day of application and may require police visits to home to check on your marriage status.

You can get the Retirement Visa in USA before you come if you wish.

Info here.

http://www2.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-ImgLong.aspx

[KBTexas]

Thanks...we'll go that route.

But I still would like to know why a small western style cafe/deli is a bad idea.

You can get the Retirement Visa in USA before you come if you wish.

Info here.

http://www2.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-ImgLong.aspx

[whatchamacallit]

But I still would like to know why a small western style cafe/deli is a bad idea.

If you are planning to move and retire here (as mentioned in your original post) - make sure you have enough money and a solid retirement income (from your savings and Social Security) to support you and your wife for the rest of your life so you can enjoy your retirement, gardening, play golf, go fishing, or hunting. Why bother with opening up a business such as a Western Style cafe/deli which requires a lot of money to open and gives you very little return (if there is any). If you are going to open a western style deli, I'm assuming you will be moving to an area where there are a lot of western tourists and expats (Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin, or Chiang Mai). These areas are already inundated with cafes - mind you some are quite good, and most are NOT. Also consider western style supermarket such as CarreFour, Tesco Lotus, and Villa Supermarkets are also now selling cold cuts, imported cheeze, etc. Most of the farangs living here are on a tight budget (I'm going to get a lot of heat for this comment) - and they are NOT going to pay 200 baht for a New York Style Pastrami sandwich. Commercial properties in cities such as Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket are NOT very cheap - a 100sq meter commercial space in a high traffic zone (where I would think a Western Style Deli should be located) can go anywhere from 30K baht and UP + Key Money which can start from 360K baht up front. 7 out of 10 new businesses go out of business in the first year - for a restaurant it is 9 out of 10. The above is just my opinion, but I've done a lot of homeworks on the pros and cons of opening up a small business here in Thailand. NOW if are a sadomasochist - try open up a host bar or a go go bar

Edited June 24, 2008 by whatchamacallit

[KBTexas]

Heh...I have worked all of my life. I am not sure I CAN retire. Of course, I would not open the cafe without looking around and seeing if it could at least pay the bills. And yes, I was planning on a tourist area, not the expat community, to provide the traffic for the business. I would gladly pay 200 baht for a pastrami sandwich when I was hungry for a pastrami sandwich. I love Thai food, but when I am there, I would often like something a bit more homey. We went to a French restaraunt in Bangkok that was excellent, but also extremely expensive. My wife thought I was nuts paying that much for one meal. And to her way of thinking and in her culture, I fully understand that. (and she really did not much care for the food...it was too rich and 'strange' for her)

Maybe I am not the norm, but I think there has to be something to focus your effort, even retired. But then, as you so eloqently point out, it may just be a pipe dream. It will be a while before I will retire, and it will be a while after that before I decide what I wish to do. Heck, according to what was written above, I may not be able to do anything if work permits for farangs are hard to get. I have some other ideas, but I will have to find out what is and is not allowed from full-time farangs. This is one of the primary reasons I read this site. It is good information from people who live there.

Thank you for explaining your thinking on this. I do appreciate it. And no, I have absolutely NO interest in opening a bar. (closing one, maybe!)

Best Regards,

KB

But I still would like to know why a small western style cafe/deli is a bad idea.

If you are planning to move and retire here (as mentioned in your original post) - make sure you have enough money and a solid retirement income (from your savings and Social Security) to support you and your wife for the rest of your life so you can enjoy your retirement, gardening, play golf, go fishing, or hunting. Why bother with opening up a business such as a Western Style cafe/deli which requires a lot of money to open and gives you very little return (if there is any). If you are going to open a western style deli, I'm assuming you will be moving to an area where there are a lot of western tourists and expats (Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin, or Chiang Mai). These areas are already inundated with cafes - mind you some are quite good, and most are NOT. Also consider western style supermarket such as CarreFour, Tesco Lotus, and Villa Supermarkets are also now selling cold cuts, imported cheeze, etc. Most of the farangs living here are on a tight budget (I'm going to get a lot of heat for this comment) - and they are NOT going to pay 200 baht for a New York Style Pastrami sandwich. Commercial properties in cities such as Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket are NOT very cheap - a 100sq meter commercial space in a high traffic zone (where I would think a Western Style Deli should be located) can go anywhere from 30K baht and UP + Key Money which can start from 360K baht up front. 7 out of 10 new businesses go out of business in the first year - for a restaurant it is 9 out of 10. The above is just my opinion, but I've done a lot of homeworks on the pros and cons of opening up a small business here in Thailand. NOW if are a sadomasochist - try open up a host bar or a go go bar

Edited June 24, 2008 by KBTexas