Wp Revoked - How Can I Stay On Legally?

[simon43]

Since the OP states that he is financially ok and has enough unbroken years of visa extension to qualify for a PR application, perhaps he could rapidly sign up for a language or university course which should enable him to extend his visa based on that study (ED visa etc). That would see him through for a few months (at least) until near year-end when he could apply for PR during the window of application.

Simon

[lopburi3]

At this point it is not clear that language 90 day extensions of stay would be acceptable even if the fact no work could be performed (income) would not reduce chances.

[BHBKK]

<H3 style="MARGIN: 9pt 0in 6pt">Thanks to all for your detailed information provided. I have to partly blame myself for having not read the Thai immigration laws to details. On the other hand the regulations are very complex and worse prone to frequent changes. That these amendments are hardly and if poorly publicized make things not better.</H3>I must say am somehow shocked that after working here continuously for over 10 years, having paid millions THB for taxes and created employment opportunities for over 100 locals, I am treated worse than first time tourist on a VISA exempt stamp. He can get at least a 2 weeks extension, I get max 7 days.

BTW I applied for a PR twice, in 2001/2002, but both times my applications were rejected. No reasons given. As Mr. T. increased the fee by 400% I just did not bother anymore.

I hope my case is a warning and eye-opener to many who are planning to make Thailand home base. Despite being a wonderful country with nice people, its discriminating laws towards foreigners and the absence of secure legal platform, make Thailand a poor choice to become a new permanent home.

[lopburi3]

You are wrong about tourist visa exempt extension - 7 days is it and has been for several years.

[Mario2008]

Last option is volunteer work for a registered charity. With volunteer work you would qualify for a non-O and a work permit. No income check and helps towards permanent residency, as you are expected to show your social contribution to Thai society.

[dbrenn]

<H3 style="MARGIN: 9pt 0in 6pt">Thanks to all for your detailed information provided. I have to partly blame myself for having not read the Thai immigration laws to details. On the other hand the regulations are very complex and worse prone to frequent changes. That these amendments are hardly and if poorly publicized make things not better.</H3>I must say am somehow shocked that after working here continuously for over 10 years, having paid millions THB for taxes and created employment opportunities for over 100 locals, I am treated worse than first time tourist on a VISA exempt stamp. He can get at least a 2 weeks extension, I get max 7 days.

BTW I applied for a PR twice, in 2001/2002, but both times my applications were rejected. No reasons given. As Mr. T. increased the fee by 400% I just did not bother anymore.

I hope my case is a warning and eye-opener to many who are planning to make Thailand home base. Despite being a wonderful country with nice people, its discriminating laws towards foreigners and the absence of secure legal platform, make Thailand a poor choice to become a new permanent home.

I'm sorry that you were rejected for PR twice, and I can underdstand your frustration at having tried the PR route but been turned down. Just out of interest, and to help guide others here through the PR process:

1) I've seen a few cases of rejected PR, and the common reason seemed to be that they were declaring the minimum salary for tax and visa extension purposes for the three years running up to their PR application. Businessmen, in particular, are inclined to do this as they have more control over the taxes that they declare than salary people do, and often quite legitimately minimise tax in this way. However, the immigration commission seems of late to take a dim view of PR applicants who declare minimums, and quite often reject them. A friend of mine, for example, who also declares only the minimum salary to qualify for a Work Permit, was told to not even bother applying last year when he took his docs to the immigration to lodge his PR application. Not saying that this is true in your case, but minimums just don't seem to cut it and immigration seems to take declarations over the minimum (the more, the better) it as s sign of 'honesty' and prioritise such people. Conversely, people who declare much more than the minimums always seem to sail through the PR process even if they are sadly lacking in other areas, such as in their ability to speak Thai.

2) The fee for PR has indeed increased substantially. However, the full amount is only payable on approval. Upon application one only must pay a deposit, which, if I recall correctly, is only just over 5% of the total. In the case where an application is rejected, nothing further is payable.

[BHBKK]

You right it is a common mistake, not only when applying for a PR. It looks more than fishy, if senior managers of sizeable organizations apply for a PR or WP and declare only the minimum salary to qualify for a Work Permit.

But I don't think that has been he reason in my case ( 180 and 200K/month in 2001/2002) but rather my close links to the wrong political party which probably weren't helpful to my cause. However, I will never be able to prove this. Unfortunately the incumbent powers won't favor a new application either. TIT

[KamnanT]

I'm sorry that you were rejected for PR twice, and I can underdstand your frustration at having tried the PR route but been turned down. Just out of interest, and to help guide others here through the PR process:

1) I've seen a few cases of rejected PR, and the common reason seemed to be that they were declaring the minimum salary for tax and visa extension purposes for the three years running up to their PR application. Businessmen, in particular, are inclined to do this as they have more control over the taxes that they declare than salary people do, and often quite legitimately minimise tax in this way. However, the immigration commission seems of late to take a dim view of PR applicants who declare minimums, and quite often reject them. A friend of mine, for example, who also declares only the minimum salary to qualify for a Work Permit, was told to not even bother applying last year when he took his docs to the immigration to lodge his PR application. Not saying that this is true in your case, but minimums just don't seem to cut it and immigration seems to take declarations over the minimum (the more, the better) it as s sign of 'honesty' and prioritise such people. Conversely, people who declare much more than the minimums always seem to sail through the PR process even if they are sadly lacking in other areas, such as in their ability to speak Thai.

2) The fee for PR has indeed increased substantially. However, the full amount is only payable on approval. Upon application one only must pay a deposit, which, if I recall correctly, is only just over 5% of the total. In the case where an application is rejected, nothing further is payable.

The application fee is THB 7,600. If accepted, the fee for the issuance of the Certificate of Residence (blue book) is THB 191,400 for a applicant under the employment or investment categories, or THB 95,700 for applicants under the spouse of Thai national category or for the spouse or children of a permanent resident. So for myself, my (non-Thai) spouse and two children, the fee was 191,400 + (3 x 95,700) = THB 478,500. At the time I wondered whether it was worth it, but with the continuous changes to the extension of stay rules, I'm now glad we did it. Of course, there is no guarantee that the rules for remaining in Thailand as a permanent resident won't be changed to make it more difficult.

All that said, this isn't a realistic option for the OP. While it is true that you are automatically granted extensions of stay for the approximately 18 months it takes to process your application, in practice without employment his application won't be accepted.

[dbrenn]

The application fee is THB 7,600. If accepted, the fee for the issuance of the Certificate of Residence (blue book) is THB 191,400 for a applicant under the employment or investment categories, or THB 95,700 for applicants under the spouse of Thai national category or for the spouse or children of a permanent resident. So for myself, my (non-Thai) spouse and two children, the fee was 191,400 + (3 x 95,700) = THB 478,500. At the time I wondered whether it was worth it, but with the continuous changes to the extension of stay rules, I'm now glad we did it. Of course, there is no guarantee that the rules for remaining in Thailand as a permanent resident won't be changed to make it more difficult.

All that said, this isn't a realistic option for the OP. While it is true that you are automatically granted extensions of stay for the approximately 18 months it takes to process your application, in practice without employment his application won't be accepted.

I wouldn't worry about changes to extension of stay rules with respect to PR, because there aren't any. As a PR, you can stay here forever and it will never lapse. There are a few conditions, such as staying out of trouble and remembering to get the re-entry permits if you leave Thailand, but PR in itself never needs extension. The only things that they could impose are residency requirements, where PR holders must spend a minimum period of time in the country per so many years, as is the case elsewhere, but that hasn't happened yet.

Agreed that the OP will need a WP to apply for PR, but keeping his current Non-Imm visa alive would defer this problem until the end of the year, when he applies for PR. Breaks in WP are not a problem in the three years running up to a PR application, only breaks in a Non-Imm visa, or missing tax returns for even one year, will reset the 3 year clock to zero.

Sorry to hear from the OP that there are political reasons for his PR being declined. Depending on who doesn't like him and why, that would make things much more complicated to deal with.

[KamnanT]

I wouldn't worry about changes to extension of stay rules with respect to PR, because there aren't any. As a PR, you can stay here forever and it will never lapse. There are a few conditions, such as staying out of trouble and remembering to get the re-entry permits if you leave Thailand, but PR in itself never needs extension. The only things that they could impose are residency requirements, where PR holders must spend a minimum period of time in the country per so many years, as is the case elsewhere, but that hasn't happened yet.

No requirement for Extensions of Stay but there is a requirement for resident certificate endorsements and non-quota immigrant visas if a resident wants to leave Thailand and return. I'm more concerned about additional conditions being imposed for these. As the current inclination of the immigration authorities appears to be to demand more proof of one's "legimacy" in Thailand (eg. employment, payment of tax), I wouldn't put it past them to start placing minimum conditions on the granting of endorsements and/or NQI visas.

[BHBKK]

I am thinking to give the PR another try. It has been mentioned that I need 3 one year VISA extensions to qualify for a PR.

I got 10 years consequent VISA extensions but this year had to go to Suan Plu and got 1 month under consideration and then my 1 year VISA for another 11 months after my WP has been approved.

I presume that this procedure also qualifies me to receive a PR? Or do I really need full 1 year extension from one stop VISA service.

[lopburi3]

As long as there was no break in the extensions of stay believe it will qualify.

[Mario2008]

Unfortunately, as Lopburi3 mentioned, they are not considering applications for PR at the moment. You can only apply when immigration announces you can, normaly near the end of the year. So this would right now not be an option.

An option would be doing volunteerwork for a registered charity. This would qualify you for a non-O visa and gives extra points when applying for a PR application.

[sibeymai]

For 3 year visa for PR does this mean a non-O extended 3 years within Thailand, or does 3 consecutive non-O 1 year mulyi-entry visas issued outside of Thailand qualify as the 3 year period ?

What about I had 3 years of extension of stay based on work permit, but have since obtained a new non-O 1 year from KL. Did this restart the clock for PR ?

[Mario2008]

Multi non-O does not qualify, as you don't live 3 years consecutive in Thailand. You have to leave Thailand every 90 days. The WP isn't relevant regarding how many years you live in Thailand, but the visa. It is the visa that allows you to stay, the WP that allows you to work.

As to the last question, I don't think it restarted the clock. The rules don't say that you had to be on the same type of visa. But do realize that the ammount of tax you pay is a mayor consideration for granting PR.

[lopburi3]

The non O from KL means they did not stay here on an extension of stay so the PR count will be reset as far as I know. You must maintain you continuous extensions of stay.

[monty]

The non O from KL means they did not stay here on an extension of stay so the PR count will be reset as far as I know. You must maintain you continuous extensions of stay.

Correct.

You can leave and re-enter with a re-entry permit (basically you re-enter on the same extension of stay), but if you let your 1 year extension laps and leave Thailand to apply for a new visa, the clock resets!

[jaapfries]

I would strongly advice you to visit your local Immigration Department. These people (contrary to popular belief !) are actually there (and happy) to help you 'round this little 'mine-field' you suddenly found yourself in.

In case you don;t have the stomach for this, why don;t you consult with a specialized lawyer's firm.

I don't know where you are located, but if you're in Bangkok, contact a Mr. Marcus Collins:

McEvily & Collins Law Office

ฺBangkok

Two Pacific Place

21st Floor, Suite 2100

142 Sukhumvit Road

Klongtoey

Bangkok 10110

Tel: 66 (2) 305-2300

Fax: 66 (2) 653-2163

E-mail: [email protected]

Marcus has a private e-mail: [email protected]

Marcus Mobile Telephone: +66 (0)81 867 12 17

In case you're in Pattaya, just give me a ring and I'll soon put you in touch with a bonafide Thai lawyer, who has served us very well for many years. My number is 0810847 35 76

Take the stress-factor out of your current predicament and get the correct information straight from the horse's mouth, okay ?

Cheers,

Jaap K.

Pattaya

[roygsd]

Dear all,

I have been working continuously for over 10 years in the kingdom. I always paid my TAX and hold a 1 year non-IM-B plus WP. Recently our company has been sold an investor and they are replacing all senior management. By end of this month I will have to quit and thus losing my WP.

I am aware I have only 7 days to apply for a new WP or have to leave the country. However, it will be impossible within this short time. Realistically I will need 3-6 months to find a new employer.[

What can I do? If understanding the current regulations I won't qualify for a tourist VISA as I already stayed 180 days in the country. Can I apply for a PR and stay on despite my WP is revoked? Any other options for me to legally stay in the country while looking for a new job?

All advices welcome!

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your troubles, having read the other replies you have plenty to think about.

Out of curiosity is the new owner of the company Thai or Farang?

I know it might go against the grain but have you considered asking the new owner to agree for you to pay the company the tax you would normally pay ( or the minimum if on sick pay etc) for a few months whilst you find new employment?

From what you have said it seems to me they have some responsibility for your current situation, if they dont agree I suggest you name and shame the company here so that any potential future employees or clients amongst the group are made aware of your experience and have the opportunity o consider .

Realy depands on what terms you left the company I guess.

Good luck

Roy Gsd.

[roygsd]

Dear all,

I have been working continuously for over 10 years in the kingdom. I always paid my TAX and hold a 1 year non-IM-B plus WP. Recently our company has been sold an investor and they are replacing all senior management. By end of this month I will have to quit and thus losing my WP.

I am aware I have only 7 days to apply for a new WP or have to leave the country. However, it will be impossible within this short time. Realistically I will need 3-6 months to find a new employer.[

What can I do? If understanding the current regulations I won't qualify for a tourist VISA as I already stayed 180 days in the country. Can I apply for a PR and stay on despite my WP is revoked? Any other options for me to legally stay in the country while looking for a new job?

All advices welcome!

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your troubles, having read the other replies you have plenty to think about.

Out of curiosity is the new owner of the company Thai or Farang?

I know it might go against the grain but have you considered asking the new owner to agree for you to pay the company the tax you would normally pay ( or the minimum if on sick pay etc) for a few months whilst you find new employment?

From what you have said it seems to me they have some responsibility for your current situation, if they dont agree I suggest you name and shame the company here so that any potential future employees or clients amongst the group are made aware of your experience and have the opportunity o consider .

Realy depands on what terms you left the company I guess.

Good luck

Roy Gsd.

Sorry got distracted, last line should say " consider if they need to work or do business with this company".

roy gsd

[matt268]

i would strongly advise to get some proper legal help with this....there are so many different replies on this subject but all are not 100% clear..

At the moment, the Immigration departments rules and regulations are changing regularly. We have just had an expat leave us, and he had to return his WP and have his Non B visa (originally issued in UK) revoked within 7 days.

The employer would normally return the WP (together with teh correct 'resignation from work' form provided by the Labour Office) but they have to advise the immigration office too..his visa was automatically revoked also and gave him 7 days to leave Thailand....

[IngKJ]

"...In case you're in Pattaya, just give me a ring and I'll soon put you in touch with a bonafide Thai lawyer, who has served us very well for many years. My number is 0810847 35 76..."

Jaap, I'd be interested in your proposed Thai Lawyer in Pattaya, as I am in a similar situation. Can you provide the contact data? Your Mobile number above has a digit too many.

[BHBKK]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. The information surely helped me to make up my mind. Very helpful thread and I am sure it also provides a good insight for others who planning to move to Thailand. It is a great country but you should be aware of thin legal platform you are building your future.

I already took some legal advice and the feedback I got is pretty much matches what has been posted hear.

When I decided to move to Thailand I have been aware of the immigration laws and some friends warned me that these make it very difficult to gain a permanent resident status. On the other hand many people thought, if Thailand is serious to take the next step, FBA and immigration laws have to improve soon. History taught us - despite many neighboring countries are opening - Thailand has chosen another way. History again will teach us whether this has been a wise decision. Looking at the current situation I would definitely say that Thailand is heading into the wrong direction but that’s another story.

Anyway I managed to make a deal with the new owners – which BTW are Indian to answer another posters question – for another 3 months, keeping my current status and paying them back offshore.

This will give me enough time to look for a new job in Thailand or to move to another country where I am (hopefully) more welcome.

[Lancashirelad]

I think its awful that someone like the OP, given his history & length of it (creating 100 Thai jobs, etc.) has to technically leave the country within 7 days on cessation of employment. Its just ridiculous.

Is there no way, given the collective power of TV, we can get a contact high up in immigration who may be receptive to having some of these idiosyncrasies pointed out?

Also, i found post 17 of intrigue as i have recently read (on TV i think) of a public meeting with a senior immigration official (or labour dept. i forget, there's so many departments!) & he was asked the specific question about having a 2nd job. His response was "Not possible."

[dbrenn]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. The information surely helped me to make up my mind. Very helpful thread and I am sure it also provides a good insight for others who planning to move to Thailand. It is a great country but you should be aware of thin legal platform you are building your future.

I already took some legal advice and the feedback I got is pretty much matches what has been posted hear.

When I decided to move to Thailand I have been aware of the immigration laws and some friends warned me that these make it very difficult to gain a permanent resident status. On the other hand many people thought, if Thailand is serious to take the next step, FBA and immigration laws have to improve soon. History taught us - despite many neighboring countries are opening - Thailand has chosen another way. History again will teach us whether this has been a wise decision. Looking at the current situation I would definitely say that Thailand is heading into the wrong direction but that's another story.

Anyway I managed to make a deal with the new owners – which BTW are Indian to answer another posters question – for another 3 months, keeping my current status and paying them back offshore.

This will give me enough time to look for a new job in Thailand or to move to another country where I am (hopefully) more welcome.

Congratulations in finding a way to maintain your status! Once you do get your PR, then the decision to keep your current Non-Imm visa alive is one that you definitely won't regret. In spite of the rather draconian and frustrating immigration laws, the fact remains that Thailand is a great place to live and we all try to find ways to stay here. For all its drawbacks, once you do get your Thai PR you will feel very relieved (I certainly did) at having the right to stay here indefinitely regardless of what happens to your job.

[dbrenn]

I think its awful that someone like the OP, given his history & length of it (creating 100 Thai jobs, etc.) has to technically leave the country within 7 days on cessation of employment. Its just ridiculous.

Is there no way, given the collective power of TV, we can get a contact high up in immigration who may be receptive to having some of these idiosyncrasies pointed out?

Also, i found post 17 of intrigue as i have recently read (on TV i think) of a public meeting with a senior immigration official (or labour dept. i forget, there's so many departments!) & he was asked the specific question about having a 2nd job. His response was "Not possible."

Using Australia as an example again, the Thai Non-Imm (Temporary Resident) visa is analogous to the Australian 457 business visa. Supposing you go to Australia to live and work on on a 457 (perhaps because you are inelligible for PR) and you renew your 457 again and again, year after year as some people do. If you then you lose or even change your job, then you will have 28 days to leave the country unless you can find a new employer that is willing to apply from scratch for your new 457. I think that many other countries differentiate between temporary and permanent residency in a similar way - temporary residency (think Non-Imm, 457, etc) is dependent upon a specific set of personal circumstances, and can be revoked as soon as those circumstances change.

If you move to a country as a temporary resident, and then wish to stay permanently, the moral of the story is to upgrade your status as soon as you possibly can, even if it is a hassle.

[BHBKK]

Thanks for the well wishes! However it is just a temporary thing and considering the current economic situation plus the political chaos going on here, I won’t be easy to find a qualified position (CEO, COO or director level). Anyway I at least could be some time to try…

I will also apply for a PR - for a third time now. Nevertheless I am not that optimistic as having been rejected twice already. Most countries offer PR easily for foreigners living and working several years in the country. Not so Thailand. The difficulty to secure a PR is actually the real issue here in Thailand. Australia and many other countries might have the similar laws but definitely it is pretty easy to obtain PR status once you are working for an extended period – let’s say over 3-5 years – in the country. If I remember correctly I would have been granted a PR in Australia within a couple years.