Simply Speaking

[gburns57au]

I find that many farangs just try to hard when formulating sentences in Thai...Keep it Simple Stupid really does apply in Thailand.

On an Oz TV fishing show here filmed out of Thailand, The Aussie host (Rex Hunt) asked his guide to find out from other boats if they had found fish yet.....The guide spoke into his radio and asked............???????

A... Khun juh Bpla mai ???

B... Mi khon juh bpla mai ???

C... Khon juh bpla rou plao ???

None of the above.....he simply said "Mi bpla rou plao"

So sweetly simple and understood by all.

Forget the complexity of it all....it will only confuse them and you....

[bannork]

What does 'try to hard' mean? Is it an Australian expression for attempting sexual arousal in the male species?

bannork.

[gburns57au]

What does 'try to hard' mean? Is it an Australian expression for attempting sexual arousal in the male species?

bannork.

Nah that is what happens when I try to explain something and a little typo creeps in like a gremlin to change the meanings....

Guess I try TOO hard sometimes TOO.....

[Hua Nguu]

I find that many farangs just try to hard when formulating sentences in Thai...Keep it Simple Stupid really does apply in Thailand.

On an Oz TV fishing show here filmed out of Thailand, The Aussie host (Rex Hunt) asked his guide to find out from other boats if they had found fish yet.....The guide spoke into his radio and asked............???????

A... Khun juh Bpla mai ???

B... Mi khon juh bpla mai ???

C... Khon juh bpla rou plao ???

None of the above.....he simply said "Mi bpla rou plao"

So sweetly simple and understood by all.

Forget the complexity of it all....it will only confuse them and you....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I fail to see that his expression is significantly simpler than the options A-C.

In english it would be even simpler: "Any Fish?"

However, I do agree with you that it is often preferred by thais to keep things simple and that is why one is so often left in the dark as to who or what they are actually talking about, when dropping pronouns, tenses etc.

Add to that many personal pronouns are genderless as well as nicknames and using those while keeping it simple often add to the general confusion IMO.

Cheers

Michael

[sbk]

I guess that's one of the things I love about southern Thai (and I don't mean the deep southern malay language). Here they really do keep it simple.

Locals would have just asked, "Dai mai?"

[gburns57au]

I think many people try to learn perfect Thai in a country where perfect Thai is not spoken by the majority....you could liken it to trying to speak Oxford English in most parts of England.

Just over ten years ago I was in a village where only 4 people could speak English and 3 of them were farang visitors (we travelled together) of which only one had a knowledge of Thai. At that time I could only say a few words of Thai....I had to spend 4 nights in a house where no one could speak English...but I got by ok. Over time as I learnt more I realised that apart from speaking slower to me they didnt alter their speech patterns a great deal. After a few years of visiting there for 2 to 3 weeks every 6 months, I found that I could hold my own in conversation with little reliance on dictionaries. I was able to negotiate loans and purchases, even getting discounts where the locals didnt, I joined in family discussions about all manner of things. This was due mainly to my non english speaking ex wife, she never shied from teaching me, NOT how to speak Thai but how to understand her. I think that is an important point....you can learn to speak Thai as much as you want but if you cant understand how a Thai speaks, you are facing a uphill climb.

[bannork]

You're quite right,gburns, I live in Issan, 80 kilos from Laos and all the villagers speak Issan\Lao, very different to Bang Sue in Bangkok or Krabi in the south. If I speak Bangkok Thai the youngish locals understand but the older ones don't or won't; to understand and communicate with the locals I have to learn and know the Issan language.

But I think we have to realise that this website is at present unable to provide fluent English speakers in the various Thai dialects on call, able to translate instantaneously according to the local nuances and vocab; so we are left with us expats floundering around trying to help each other, with occasional input from native Thai speakers. Surely it's better than nothing at all?

bannork.

[Boon Mee]

You're quite right,gburns, I live in Issan, 80 kilos from Laos and all the villagers speak Issan\Lao, very different to Bang Sue in Bangkok or Krabi in the south.  If I speak Bangkok Thai the youngish locals understand but the older ones don't or won't; to understand and communicate with the locals I have to learn and know the Issan language.

But I think we have to realise that this website is at present unable to provide fluent English speakers in the various Thai dialects on call, able to translate instantaneously according to the local nuances and vocab; so we are left with  us expats floundering around trying to help each other, with occasional input from native Thai speakers. Surely it's better than nothing at all?

bannork.

It's definitely a big help when learning to read & write and I'm sure I can speak for the rest of us "newbies" that bannork, snowleopard, RDN etc have been, and are, a big help.

Thanks for your patience, boys!

บุญมี

[gburns57au]

You're quite right,gburns, I live in Issan, 80 kilos from Laos and all the villagers speak Issan\Lao, very different to Bang Sue in Bangkok or Krabi in the south.  If I speak Bangkok Thai the youngish locals understand but the older ones don't or won't; to understand and communicate with the locals I have to learn and know the Issan language.

But I think we have to realise that this website is at present unable to provide fluent English speakers in the various Thai dialects on call, able to translate instantaneously according to the local nuances and vocab; so we are left with  us expats floundering around trying to help each other, with occasional input from native Thai speakers. Surely it's better than nothing at all?

bannork.

Not knocking the assistance given out here, people will take what they can out of it and use it as per their needs. Any help is better than no help.

I just think that people need to keep in mind that Street Thai is a lot different to Book Thai. I am sure many people have shown a phrase book to a Thai person for a particular phrase....they usually study it, call a friend or three over and then say the same phrase in a different way..lol...

I only found a few oldies who didnt speak any Thai in the villages I have been to.....Most speak a little bit of Thai...Surprisingly I have found some of the old ladies are a bit saucy too...I once told a group of women about ...Thai women, talk talk talk, eat eat eat, go sleep.....One old girl of about 60+ gave a reply which stunned me....I will let you guess that one....LOL

[Firefoxx]

Spoken Thai can indeed be shortened quite a lot and still be understood. Take for example:

สวัสดีครับ ผมอยากทราบว่าทางคุณได้รับประทานอาหารกลางวันแล้วหรือยังครับ

can be shortened among friends to:

ดี แดกข้าวยัง

(of course, it's very crude)

or:

สวัสดีึึีัครับ ผมอยากรบกวนถามคุณว่าห้างสรรพสินค้าเซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าวไปทิศทางใดครับ

shortened to

เฮ้ย เซ็นทั่นไปไง

or:

คุณผู้ชายครับ ไม่ทราบว่าคุณได้สังเกตุเห็นผู้หญิงชาวต่างชาติเดินผ่านมาทางนี้บ้างหรือเปล่าครับ

snip snip snip

นายๆ เห็นสาวฝรั่งมั่งไหม

or:

ผมอยากรู้ว่าคุณสามารถพูดภาษาของประเทศสาธารณรัฐประชาชนลาวหรือไม่ครับ

whoops

เว้าลาวไหม

or in gburn's example:

มีปลาป่ะ

will be sufficient

Of course it's also a matter of etiquette. With strangers or seniors, it's rude to shorten your sentences too much. Of course, with your best friends you can simply mutter monosyllables and manage to convey volumes of meaning.

PS: If you want some examples, read the headlines of Thai newspapers. They're about as shorthand as you can get without being downright rude (well, most of the time). Very comparable to western tabloids, except that these are the major Thai newspapers.

[RamdomChances]

firefox thats a great post but I as well as most people here cant read thai!!!!

[Firefoxx]

firefox thats a great post but I as well as most people here cant read thai!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So true!

But I think that you won't understand it all that much if I were to put those phrases into phonetic spellings (and phonetic spellings really distort the Thai language). Let's just say that I'm showing you how phrases can be very different in length while still conveying the same meaning.

The English translations of the phrases are:

Eaten yet?

Where's Central?

Seen any western girls?

Speak Laotian?

Needless to say, you can do the shortening trick with English as well.

[bannork]

firefoxx,

Would you agree your first sentence translates as:' good morning\afternoon sir/madam, have you eaten lunch yet?'

Whilst the second might be:'hi, have you stuffed your face yet?\ have you had your face in the trough yet?'

Regarding tabloids; Thai Rat(h) and The Daily News may have sensational headlines like the tabloids in England but they also have a lot more columns and articles regarding politics, agriculture, cultural events, and general going-ons. In contrast, The Sun, etc, in England contain nothing but absurd sex scandals on the first 3 pages and fill up the rest of the paper with witterings about other failed celebrities and advertisements for sex services. The dumbing down of the English press; no wonder so many flee and come to LOS.

bannork.

[snowleopard]

Spoken Thai can indeed be shortened quite a lot and still be understood.  Take for example:

สวัสดีครับ ผมอยากทราบว่าทางคุณได้รับประทานอาหารกลางวันแล้วหรือยังครับ

can be shortened among friends to:

ดี แดกข้าวยัง

(of course, it's very crude)

or:

สวัสดีึึีัครับ ผมอยากรบกวนถามคุณว่าห้างสรรพสินค้าเซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าวไปทิศทางใดครับ

shortened to

เฮ้ย เซ็นทั่นไปไง

or:

คุณผู้ชายครับ ไม่ทราบว่าคุณได้สังเกตุเห็นผู้หญิงชาวต่างชาติเดินผ่านมาทางนี้บ้างหรือเปล่าครับ

snip snip snip

นายๆ เห็นสาวฝรั่งมั่งไหม

or:

ผมอยากรู้ว่าคุณสามารถพูดภาษาของประเทศสาธารณรัฐประชาชนลาวหรือไม่ครับ

whoops

เว้าลาวไหม

or in gburn's example:

มีปลาป่ะ

will be sufficient

Of course it's also a matter of etiquette.  With strangers or seniors, it's rude to shorten your sentences too much.  Of course, with your best friends you can simply mutter monosyllables and manage to convey volumes of meaning.

PS: If you want some examples, read the headlines of Thai newspapers.  They're about as shorthand as you can get without being downright rude (well, most of the time).  Very comparable to western tabloids, except that these are the major Thai newspapers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Random,

Here's the transliterations so you can analyze his sentences and then give him an answer...

I don't endorse either his long versions or the shorter ones,but I do understand what he's trying to say;eventhough,I've just polished off a six-pack of Guinness Stout.

I'm sure Meadish and others will have opinions about their accuracy.

Richard will probably have lots to say about my transliterations too after he has run them through his "almighty" R.I.D. machine to find out what they really mean,and then having proof-read everything obsessively for transliteration typos as well!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

สวัสดีครับ ผมอยากทราบว่าทางคุณได้รับประทานอาหารกลางวันแล้วหรือยังครับ

"sawat-dee crap,pom yaak saap waa taang kuhn dai rup-pra-taan aa-haan glaang wun laeow reu yung crap"

can be shortened among friends to:

ดี แดกข้าวยัง

"dee daek kaow yung"

สวัสดีึึีัครับ ผมอยากรบกวนถามคุณว่าห้างสรรพสินค้าเซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าวไปทิศทางใดครับ

"sawat-dee crap,pom yaak rop-koan taam kuhn waa haang sappa-sin kaa Central Laat-Praow pai tit taang dai crap"

shortened to

เฮ้ย เซ็นทั่นไปไง

"heuy,Central pai ngai"

or:

คุณผู้ชายครับ ไม่ทราบว่าคุณได้สังเกตุเห็นผู้หญิงชาวต่างชาติเดินผ่านมาทางนี้บ้างหรือเปล่าครับ

"kuhn poo chai crap,mai saap waa kuhn dai sang-ket hen poo-ying chaow dtaang chaat deun paan maa taang nee baang reu plaow crap"

snip snip snip

นายๆ เห็นสาวฝรั่งมั่งไหม "nai nai;hen saow farang mung mai"

"nai nai;hen saow farang mung mai"

or:

ผมอยากรู้ว่าคุณสามารถพูดภาษาของประเทศสาธารณรัฐประชาชนลาวหรือไม่ครับ

"pom yaak roo waa kuhn saa-maat poot paa-saa korng pra-teht satarana-rut pra-chaa-chon laow reu mai crap"

whoops

เว้าลาวไหม

"waow laow mai"

or in gburn's example:

มีปลาป่ะ

will be sufficient

"mee plaa pa"

[Firefoxx]

A more literal translation of the first set:

Greetings, I would like to inquire as to whether you have partaken of your noon meal or not?

Yo, eat yet?

The rest are similar. Keep in mind that these are the extremes of the language. You would only use the long version in very formal occasions. "Dakk" แดก is not a word you would want to use with anyone other than 1. your best friends or 2. your worst enemy. Same goes for words such as "muung" มึง and "goo" กู. Although I haven't heard the "polite" versions all that often, the "shortened" versions are extremely common is everyday Thai speech.

I don't like phonetic transliterations because English is not like Thai... it doesn't have fixed spellings that behave in a fixed way. So a Thai word like ผม (p-oh-m) can be spelled very differenly in English by different people, and everyone would be correct in their own way. Not to mention the lack of distinction between tones and short-long vowels.

But I do understand that it's the only way that most foreigners can read what I wrote. That's why I strongly advocate learning to read/write Thai in unison with learning to speak the language. It helps tremendously.

[Richard W]

Richard will probably have lots to say about my transliterations too after he has run them through his "almighty" R.I.D. machine to find out what they really mean,and then having proof-read everything obsessively for transliteration typos as well!

Regular readers will already be aware that your transliterations can't be intended to convey the pronunciation, but merely to give an indication of what the words are.

The Royal Institute dictionary isn't mine - it's been kindly put on-line by the Royal Institute for all to use.

[RamdomChances]

Cheers Snowy, I get it now.

I understand where Firefox is coming from, about the two extremes. Personaly I take a more middle ground when saying any of those, but I think they were just writen to illistrate a point.

I don't like phonetic transliterations because English is not like Thai... it doesn't have fixed spellings that behave in a fixed way. So a Thai word like ผม (p-oh-m) can be spelled very differenly in English by different people, and everyone would be correct in their own way. Not to mention the lack of distinction between tones and short-long vowels.

But I do understand that it's the only way that most foreigners can read what I wrote. That's why I strongly advocate learning to read/write Thai in unison with learning to speak the language. It helps tremendously.

I agree with the above, although my english does'nt have "fixed" spellings either, but thats just me I find that if you can speak thai to a reasonable level the transliterations are fine.

Learning to read and write thai in unison with learning to speak is definatly the best way to go, but a lot of people have'nt either the time, or access to formal education course.

So true!

But I think that you won't understand it all that much if I were to put those phrases into phonetic spellings

It always dangerous to assume what other peoples abilities are without knowing them.

[Firefoxx]

Yes, I always forget that there are people who are actually used to this way of writing Thai. I remember when IRC didn't have any Thai fonts (in the very early text-only, web-less days of the 'net) and Thai students would use phonetic spelling. I never could get used to it and it always gave me a headache.

Some notoriously bad phonetic spellings:

The river Kwai: What? Thailand has a "buffalo river"? Proper pronunciation uses the same sound as in "bad".

Pinklao: This really got me laughing... Laos in Bangkok! And pink to boot! Proper pronunciation is "pbin glao".

Kuy: This is the most common phonetic Thai word used by Thais online. What does it look like? Another buffalo? To talk? Nope, it's actually the swear word which refers to the male's genitals. It really cracks me up that some macho Thais would want to swear, and swear often, yet they can't get the spelling right.

Let's not forget the name of this country which lots of foreigners STILL mispronounce as "thighland".

[gburns57au]

Yes, I always forget that there are people who are actually used to this way of writing Thai.  I remember when IRC didn't have any Thai fonts (in the very early text-only, web-less days of the 'net) and Thai students would use phonetic spelling.  I never could get used to it and it always gave me a headache.

Some notoriously bad phonetic spellings:

The river Kwai: What?  Thailand has a "buffalo river"?  Proper pronunciation uses the same sound as in "bad".

Pinklao: This really got me laughing... Laos in Bangkok! And pink to boot!  Proper pronunciation is "pbin glao".

Kuy: This is the most common phonetic Thai word used by Thais online.  What does it look like?  Another buffalo?  To talk?  Nope, it's actually the swear word which refers to the male's genitals.  It really cracks me up that some macho Thais would want to swear, and swear often, yet they can't get the spelling right.

Let's not forget the name of this country which lots of foreigners STILL mispronounce as "thighland".

The problem with transliteration is the different way people perceive what they hear...That is why it is important when learning to read and write Thai that you learn how to pronounce the letters of the alphabet first. It is fine to learn to read Thai but if you cant pronounce what you are reading, then you will not be understood.

[bannork]

quote]สวัสดีครับ ผมอยากทราบว่าทางคุณได้รับประทานอาหารกลางวันแล้วหรือยังครับ

"sawat-dee crap,pom yaak saap waa taang kuhn dai rup-pra-taan aa-haan glaang wun laeow reu yung crap"

can be shortened among friends to:

ดี แดกข้าวยัง

"dee daek kaow yung"

สวัสดีึึีัครับ ผมอยากรบกวนถามคุณว่าห้างสรรพสินค้าเซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าวไปทิศทางใดครับ

"sawat-dee crap,pom yaak rop-koan taam kuhn waa haang sappa-sin kaa Central Laat-Praow pai tit taang dai crap"

or:

คุณผู้ชายครับ ไม่ทราบว่าคุณได้สังเกตุเห็นผู้หญิงชาวต่างชาติเดินผ่านมาทางนี้บ้างหรือเปล่าครับ

"kuhn poo chai crap,mai saap waa kuhn dai sang-ket hen poo-ying chaow dtaang chaat deun paan maa taang nee baang reu plaow crap"

Snowleopard, please cut out the crap and stick to khrap!

bannork.

[snowleopard]

Richard will probably have lots to say about my transliterations too after he has run them through his "almighty" R.I.D. machine to find out what they really mean,and then having proof-read everything obsessively for transliteration typos as well!

Regular readers will already be aware that your transliterations can't be intended to convey the pronunciation, but merely to give an indication of what the words are.

The Royal Institute dictionary isn't mine - it's been kindly put on-line by the Royal Institute for all to use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"kuhn poo chai crap,mai saap waa kuhn dai sang-ket hen poo-ying chaow dtaang chaat deun paan maa taang nee baang reu plaow crap"

Snowleopard, please cut out the crap and stick to khrap!

bannork.

"Khrap pom...Thanks for the standing ovation ...Thank you vely,vely much ...I can hear how evely-bloody is crapping their hands!" R.W. much...khrap khrap.

Cheers.

Snowleopard

[meadish_sweetball]

stick to crap!

ขี้เหนียว ??

[snowleopard]

stick to crap!

ขี้เหนียว ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ลูกชิ้นสวีเดนที่หวานกลายเป็นเหนียว จึงเธอปลดปล่อยไม่ไหวหรือ รอสักประเดี๋ยวก็มีแมลงวันไทยทั้งหลายที่จะมาช่วยชีวิตเธอ แยกออกเป็นสองกองเลย

เสือดาว

[bannork]

stick to crap!

ขี้เหนียว ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ลูกชิ้นสวีเดนที่หวานกลายเป็นเหนียว จึงเธอปลดปล่อยไม่ไหวหรือ รอสักประเดี๋ยวก็มีแมลงวันไทยทั้งหลายที่จะมาช่วยชีวิตเธอ แยกออกเป็นสองกองเลย

meadish sweetball, answer quickly before things start to stick, and remember, there's no flies on you!

Snowleopards are in greater peril with their shrinking habitat due to man and global warming!

bannork.