Interesting Letter Regarding Drug Crime In Pattaya

[ourmaninbangers]

Fortunately we are talking about Thailand here, not Holland.

And hard drugs are a problem in Holland as well. My first trip to Amsterdam, I lost count of how many times I was offered pretty much every kind of hard drug imaginable. I was almost mugged by some Rastafarian types that tried selling me coke, and threatened me when I wouldn't buy.

Gangs of drug dealers patrolling up and down the canals, carrying umbrellas and walking sticks with blades hidden in them. There are places in Amsterdam that the locals told me they don't go near in the daytime unless they are in a group of 3-4 or more people. At night ? Forget it, they told me not to go there period, even if I was with friends.

One guy at the hotel I was in thought he'd play a joke on me. We had this thick Turkish coffee with breakfast (the kind where there's an inch of grounds at the bottom of the cup). I came in for breakfast and this guy had already got me a coffee. Not long after I'm staggering along the streets, trying to figure out what the hel_l was going on. This guy is laughing his ass off. Turns out he'd dumped a gram of hash into my coffee.

Luckily for me it was only hash and not something stronger. I was pissed to say the least, and then had to worry about going back to the base where they were doing random urine tests. Could have meant the end of my career. Nice joke.

In Canada, I stopped associating with one group of friends that used to (probably still do) smoke a lot of pot. Even though they were cultivating hybrid (female only) plants to maximize the THC content, after awhile it wasn't enough. For parties they'd start adding other substances to the pot to get a better buzz (some kind of meth). Wonder what they do when that isn't enough either ?

I worked in the lower East Side of Vancouver a few years ago. Main & Hastings area. Probably 80% of the people on the streets in that area are junkies and/or pushers. Some of the people in my building were recovering addicts.

Gees, guess what ? None of them started off on hard drugs ! NONE OF THEM. Every single person I spoke to had basically the same story. Started off drinking or smoking pot, or smoking pot while drinking. One way or another they all graduated to hard drugs. A lucky few were able to kick it eventually, but they represent the very small minority of drug users. Most of the rest end up dying of an overdose or disease.

The cops do what they can, but it gets frustrating when you bust a pusher for the 17th time (no lie, some have been arrested even more often, caught red-handed, on film, in the act of selling), and the court decides to let him go because he only had a small amount of (crack/heroin/coke/etc) on him at the time.

So does this leniency by the courts do any good ? Not a chance. It just gets worse and worse.

Legalize it ? Why, so the whole city can be over run by drug addicted, diseased junkies ? Yeah, great idea. They are catching kids (10-12 years old) selling drugs in schools. Teen girls are getting addicted and put on the streets to sell their asses so they can buy another fix.

They opened a "safe injection site" in Vancouver. A place where junkies could get clean needles and shoot up without fear of being busted by the cops. The idea was that it would cut down on the spread of disease and number of people dying from ODs. It was supposed to be modelled on a program that originated in Switzerland a few years before.

They made it all sound so nice. But they forgot to tell people why the program in Switzerland was shut down. Apparently there was an area in (Geneva ? Bern ? I forget which one) that had a park where 3-400 junkies would congregate. They started a safe injection site thinking it would cut down on crime in the area and help prevent the spread of diseases. If I recall, they were even providing quantities of "safe" drugs.

From what I read at the time, they had to close the program down because the area suddenly became overrun with junkies from all over Europe. The 3-400 that were there originally swiftly became thousands.

Oh yeah. Crime in the area increased dramatically as well. Spread of diseases increased. Number of people dying from ODs increased.

Program finally declared a failure and shut down.

I'm glad places like Thailand take a harsh approach to drugs. Middle Eastern countries are even worse (like the 4 year minimum prison sentence that the UAE hands out for even the smallest quantity of any kind of illegal drug).

Think about it. People have been doing drugs in Amsterdam for generations. If everything was so rosy and wonderful and peaceful and nice, why haven't more countries followed suit ?

If anything, more countries are making their laws tougher. Why ? If Holland is such a shiny example, why aren't other countries allowing Pot Cafes and Hash Bars to spring up everywhere ? Hmmm ?

Oh I know. The stock answer from all the druggies is usually "We're right, and everyone else is wrong". Even if that "everyone else" is probably 96% of the planet.

Yep. 5.75 billion are wrong and .25 billion are right.

another amusing post by a gentleman who has obviously done alot research

in holland, you must be wearing " I am a victim t-shirt " because although i have heard of such storys in the dam, they are so few

wanna hear some about thailand..? how many kiled there, where was that drug war recently

real demoncracy in action there my freinds,

by your level of arguement the policys that you back are really failing there too- which is it? you agree with thailand policys, when you,ll hear more of your type high noon storys about the place

so, in your book , thailand system works does it, because if you really believe that I,ll step out right now,

it would be pointless to go on, please take that notion, crunch it up and open a window...

but fair enough if thats true about your friend, sorry to hear that actually

now, lets also say, its never happeend to me, my friends... nobody with these knifes that you claim

so, where does that leave us?

again, your friends say that they all started with soft, which make sense because its grown there unlike smack , coke, my friends and I have never touch the stuff- again, what does this show..?

I,am not saying it is,nt the case, just that it is,nt always the answer

shall we stop booze, fags, chocolat too?

you seem to distrust people who take drugs on one level, and beleive them on another when it suits you

you seem to like to enforce a governent policys from a country which has had how many PM,s lately?,

and whose name is always linked to the expoltation of it females, which is still so high up on the worlds most corrupt nations,

yes, lets follow this shining example, we,re making real progress here people

yes, holland has hard drugs problems, and the lowest rate of vilence asscoated with drug crimes, and, agaisnt lady sexaully, how about thailand?

why do countrys not follow suit- they ahve, UK kinda follwed for awhile

and its not about what is right, but rather who gets votes, thats why not followed

like it or not, people are not going to stop, has,nt this been proven? so, why not go with the flow, and take a more enlightend look

we are not right, how can we be right all the time? but we can say that your type of argements are shown to be so floored

and that the systems you back are too- when drugs were legal all over the world was the world overun with junkys?

thanks

PS you say " legalize it" suggestiong your detailed research has lead you to beleive that its legal in holland, its not , homework please( wink)

best wishes

[kedawi]

"However, as far as alcohol is concerned, people don't get addicted to it anywhere near as easily as they do with drugs."

...

...

I'm sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who thinks that that is sensible thing to say about drugs.

[NightOwl888]

I agree with most posters, drugs are illegal in Thailand and we have no sympathy with him.

But saying that the OP has raised a very valid point of the double jeopardy issue, as he was prevented from leaving why should he be fined for overstaying also.

What would happen if a person was held or prevented from leaving Thailand and eventually found not guilty or the charges dropped but were fined for overstaying, would that not be an injustice?

BB

So he got a crappy lawyer that didn't follow up and get him through the correct deportation channels. You are blaming immigration for charging him for the overstay for this?

Bottom line here is that breaking the law wherever you are can be problematic. You don't want the problems, don't break the laws. Going to jail doesn't make the clock stop on your bills, mortgage, debt collectors, or credit rating, why should it stop for things like overstaying?

oh dear-please people, think a little carefully about what you say- no you do NOT go to jail if you take drugs, only ,if you get caught..

if you are,nt able to pay off the cops, judge, etc, etc- again, look where we are...

and you can just walk straight back in..as many have done.

Its very easy.

A 'deportation means almost zero for anyone with a little cash/knowhow.

Yes, make ,em all legal. I think, and research has been done that there would,nt be a big raise in junkys.

there is a limit to how many people want to take such things

but crime would fall, and so would the money/time wasted in punishing the users

Or continue to fight a war we,ll never win.

Stop treating people like babys. Stop blaming dealers all the time. Look further.

Obviously the war on drugs is not working-because it so stupid and ill-informed.Its anti natural- so will never work.

people will never stop,its the 5th need, and besides, most peoples lives are so dull drugs gives them a bit of fun.

the addictive personality will always find a way to mess him self up. Sadly.

If things were legal at least they would,nt find themselves possibly buying really bad things from bad people and face possible prison sentances and danger .Thats just so stupid.

Puting away some poor john because he,s taken something. What does that really achieve?

s

There is a middle ground- how to do illegal drugs in damage limiting way, and if legal they,d get consulling, and the big bosses would lose power.

hence, it probabaly will not happen

While I personally believe that marijuana should be legal everywhere, the fact is it is not. The letter writer's brother was breaking the law whether it is agreed with unanimously or not. There is no point arguing that the punishment didn't fit the crime - there was a crime and it was punished according to local laws.

And what you said about the war on drugs being anti-natural is a really lame comment. So are you implying that inhaling the smoke of burning dried leaves on purpose is natural? Are you implying the fact that some people "need" pot to calm down is natural? I don't know about you, but I don't see any babies born with a joint in their mouth. Going cold sober is as natural as you can get. The lawmakers recognize this and that is why pot is not legal in most places.

Petitioning to make the law change to suit your needs is your right. Ignoring the law and breaking it anyway is just arrogant - especially if it is not in your own country.

[ourmaninbangers]

I agree with most posters, drugs are illegal in Thailand and we have no sympathy with him.

But saying that the OP has raised a very valid point of the double jeopardy issue, as he was prevented from leaving why should he be fined for overstaying also.

What would happen if a person was held or prevented from leaving Thailand and eventually found not guilty or the charges dropped but were fined for overstaying, would that not be an injustice?

BB

So he got a crappy lawyer that didn't follow up and get him through the correct deportation channels. You are blaming immigration for charging him for the overstay for this?

Bottom line here is that breaking the law wherever you are can be problematic. You don't want the problems, don't break the laws. Going to jail doesn't make the clock stop on your bills, mortgage, debt collectors, or credit rating, why should it stop for things like overstaying?

oh dear-please people, think a little carefully about what you say- no you do NOT go to jail if you take drugs, only ,if you get caught..

if you are,nt able to pay off the cops, judge, etc, etc- again, look where we are...

and you can just walk straight back in..as many have done.

Its very easy.

A 'deportation means almost zero for anyone with a little cash/knowhow.

Yes, make ,em all legal. I think, and research has been done that there would,nt be a big raise in junkys.

there is a limit to how many people want to take such things

but crime would fall, and so would the money/time wasted in punishing the users

Or continue to fight a war we,ll never win.

Stop treating people like babys. Stop blaming dealers all the time. Look further.

Obviously the war on drugs is not working-because it so stupid and ill-informed.Its anti natural- so will never work.

people will never stop,its the 5th need, and besides, most peoples lives are so dull drugs gives them a bit of fun.

the addictive personality will always find a way to mess him self up. Sadly.

If things were legal at least they would,nt find themselves possibly buying really bad things from bad people and face possible prison sentances and danger .Thats just so stupid.

Puting away some poor john because he,s taken something. What does that really achieve?

s

There is a middle ground- how to do illegal drugs in damage limiting way, and if legal they,d get consulling, and the big bosses would lose power.

hence, it probabaly will not happen

While I personally believe that marijuana should be legal everywhere, the fact is it is not. The letter writer's brother was breaking the law whether it is agreed with unanimously or not. There is no point arguing that the punishment didn't fit the crime - there was a crime and it was punished according to local laws.

And what you said about the war on drugs being anti-natural is a really lame comment. So are you implying that inhaling the smoke of burning dried leaves on purpose is natural? Are you implying the fact that some people "need" pot to calm down is natural? I don't know about you, but I don't see any babies born with a joint in their mouth. Going cold sober is as natural as you can get. The lawmakers recognize this and that is why pot is not legal in most places.

Petitioning to make the law change to suit your needs is your right. Ignoring the law and breaking it anyway is just arrogant - especially if it is not in your own country.

yes, I agree wrong word,

pls remember I,am not as lucky as you to be a native speaker

but babys also are not born with milk in their mouth- is,nt this so?

and , my friend, maslow actually wrote that IT IS NATURAL actually in the heiracy of needs, albeit , the last one, to get shit faced on, off ones trolly on wait for........ drugs!( booze, fags,etc, etc)

This was not allowed to be spocken about and taken out of many texts- getting off your head, or whateverway you wish to call, by whatever ... is according to someone so prominent in western thought to be- natural..........

so, that pouint is debtable, very deabtable as did,nt the we choose him as poster boy?

so, lets dismiss what he says when it does,nt suit us... although he had the balls to say it- I commend him for that

lets talk more about natural, when some people are stressed they think its only normal, natural to go to the doctor, do they not?

who in turn may prescribe vallium, or another chemical which has, I want to say been proven 19 18 % of the time to be far worse...

I,d much prefer to avoid these sorts of "natural "logical trends and smoke away...

yes, I choose to ignore pointless, stupid, backward laws, which have failed since day 1 ,espeically when in place that are so double standard from not exactly the world most shining example of democracy,it make you cry.. or laugh,,, and eeerr natually

some people did,nt choose to obey on the womens rights issues, the race, gay issues... if choose to follow we,d still be in the dark ages- are they arognant too? they choose not to obey

so you never break the law do you?

I know it sound arrogant , but its my body, my life, I do not push others to do, why should a failed system try and stop me having a little fun when its out there selling off it gals to the highest bidder, doing only God knows whatelse,

and above all- the current war just ain,t working-will never, has never worked.. so we need to try something new

byeeee

[kedawi]

In a perfect world, ALL drugs would be legal and most would be unnecessary.

[NightOwl888]

so you never break the law do you?

I try not to knowingly break the law when I am in other countries, although sometimes I have without realizing it because of lack of knowledge on my part. For example, I didn't realize that pornography is illegal in Thailand last time I went and took some pictures I shouldn't have. I didn't get caught, and I don't even agree with this law, but does that make what I did right? I don't think so.

The fact of the matter is, it is extremely arrogant to break the law especially in another country. It is one thing to shit in your own yard, but to do it in someone else's is just rude. It makes it that much more difficult for the expats that live there.

I choose to ignore pointless, stupid, backward laws, which have failed since day 1 ,espeically when in place that are so double standard from not exactly the world most shining example of democracy,it make you cry.. or laugh

This is really a shame. What makes you think that you have the right to tell the Thai what laws they can make? I think it is senseless and arrogant to go to another country and complain because it is not like it is "back home". If you don't like the laws in the places you visit, why do you even go there?

If you continue to break the laws when you travel, then don't complain about the punishment you receive because it is most certainly justified. Your perception of the punishment not fitting the crime is irrelevant because you are the idiot that knowingly committed the crime.

[kedawi]

......then the law is an ass..........."

it is the prerequisite of a democratic or free country that stupid laws are questiones and refuted....this is NOT a national thing, it is an INTERNATIONAL problem....anyone who has any care for freedom and democracy has a right or rather an obligation to criticise such laws etc....otherwise how else would they change?

[NightOwl888]

......then the law is an ass..........."

it is the prerequisite of a democratic or free country that stupid laws are questiones and refuted....this is NOT a national thing, it is an INTERNATIONAL problem....anyone who has any care for freedom and democracy has a right or rather an obligation to criticise such laws etc....otherwise how else would they change?

Refuted - yes

Broken - no

It is important to understand that there is a difference. Laws don't change because they are constantly broken, in fact you only give them more reason to enforce them.

Do you honestly think if 90% of the population started to pickpocket that the government would decide to make it legal? Majority rules - that's democracy, right?

If you disagree with the law (and you happen to reside in the country), then you have a right to try to stand up against the law. But keep in mind that breaking it only works against your cause. If you don't reside in the country, then follow the rules - you really have no say in the matter whatsoever.

[kedawi]

Civil disbedience is a valid form of changing laws, as is criticising them on this site...

no-one is suggesting that if you smoke dope you don't run the RISK of being caught and dealt with under the laws of this country.

They are however suggesting that especially in this case of double jeopardy that

"the laws is an ass" and i for one think that is a valid point.

just saying that because you broke he law yin Thailand you DESERVE the punishment that Thailand gives is NOT a valid line in my opinion.

You will in all probability get that punishment but that does not make that punishment justified.

as for your pickpocket theory - very good .....................for first year high-school

"Majority rules - that's democracy, right?" - first year high-school too - if you think that is democracy, think again

Edited September 18, 2008 by kedawi

[Gary A]

It IS a drug............ It ISN'T a drug. What's the difference? It IS illegal and against the law. If you get caught you are going to suffer the consequences for breaking the law. The big question is whether the risk is worth it. If you feel the risk is worth it, then how do you expect anyone to feel sorry for you? Teetotalers get all excited about alcohol and they have a point, however alcohol is NOT against the law. Tobacco is still legal so comparing alcohol and tobacco to illegal substances is just plain stupid and a waste of time.

[david08see]

marijuana is not a drug!

Whatever, but you still get arrested and deported for it

oh dear-please people, think a little carefully about what you say- no you do NOT go to jail if you take drugs, only ,if you get caught..

if you are,nt able to pay off the cops, judge, etc, etc- again, look where we are...

and you can just walk straight back in..as many have done.

Its very easy.

A 'deportation means almost zero for anyone with a little cash/knowhow.

Yes, make ,em all legal. I think, and research has been done that there would,nt be a big raise in junkys.

there is a limit to how many people want to take such things

but crime would fall, and so would the money/time wasted in punishing the users

Or continue to fight a war we,ll never win.

Stop treating people like babys. Stop blaming dealers all the time. Look further.

Obviously the war on drugs is not working-because it so stupid and ill-informed.Its anti natural- so will never work.

people will never stop,its the 5th need, and besides, most peoples lives are so dull drugs gives them a bit of fun.

the addictive personality will always find a way to mess him self up. Sadly.

If things were legal at least they would,nt find themselves possibly buying really bad things from bad people and face possible prison sentances and danger .Thats just so stupid.

Puting away some poor john because he,s taken something. What does that really achieve?

s

There is a middle ground- how to do illegal drugs in damage limiting way, and if legal they,d get consulling, and the big bosses would lose power.

hence, it probabaly will not happen

This topic is, I believe, not about what the law should be, or whether marijuana is a drug or not, it's about an existing law.

Why is it that some persons don't mind to break the law, but then when they're caught, they're only excuse is that the law is unjust from their point of view.

And to junki3korean, maybe you don't know this, but it has been proven that one joint contains 20 times more poisonous chemicals than a whole packet of cigarettes. You might want to do some research before making ridiculous claims.

Just my 2 cents

onzestan

Sir,

it is you who really must do some research before urging others to do so.

Please look at what you say.

Lets look at what you say, more holes that a swiss cheese I am afraid.

"20 times more poison ..."

darling disregard any round figues like this please, surely they should raise a few bells. So it is exactly 20 times is it?, Not 18 not 17 and a half, but a nice round 20,mmm,

oh dear ,oh dear, moving on now...

"been proven" by whom sweety? In your logic then I have been dead a long time ago...There is no proof.

Research that.

'20 times poison that a pack of cigerettes.." really, which brand? high tar/low tar/menthol..?

Could you please be just a tad more vague. I do love the standards upon which your research has been done. Eg- none.

And please now tell me the world standard for 1 joint? Is it 1 gram of smoke , and half. 2%. 20%. Which?

What is the tobbaco ratio? can you answer any of the above? Perhap its 20 times more tobbaco that marijuana, is that correct?

You must be our guest speaker at a cannibis cup please.

Can I print this off and get you to sign it?

We have alot of hope with people like you presenting such well researched arguements.

And the kicker is that you ask others to do the research. I want to kiss you!

kisses

[nouvo135]

marijuana is not a drug!

Whatever, but you still get arrested and deported for it

oh dear-please people, think a little carefully about what you say- no you do NOT go to jail if you take drugs, only ,if you get caught..

if you are,nt able to pay off the cops, judge, etc, etc- again, look where we are...

and you can just walk straight back in..as many have done.

Its very easy.

A 'deportation means almost zero for anyone with a little cash/knowhow.

Yes, make ,em all legal. I think, and research has been done that there would,nt be a big raise in junkys.

there is a limit to how many people want to take such things

but crime would fall, and so would the money/time wasted in punishing the users

Or continue to fight a war we,ll never win.

Stop treating people like babys. Stop blaming dealers all the time. Look further.

Obviously the war on drugs is not working-because it so stupid and ill-informed.Its anti natural- so will never work.

people will never stop,its the 5th need, and besides, most peoples lives are so dull drugs gives them a bit of fun.

the addictive personality will always find a way to mess him self up. Sadly.

If things were legal at least they would,nt find themselves possibly buying really bad things from bad people and face possible prison sentances and danger .Thats just so stupid.

Puting away some poor john because he,s taken something. What does that really achieve?

s

There is a middle ground- how to do illegal drugs in damage limiting way, and if legal they,d get consulling, and the big bosses would lose power.

hence, it probabaly will not happen

This topic is, I believe, not about what the law should be, or whether marijuana is a drug or not, it's about an existing law.

Why is it that some persons don't mind to break the law, but then when they're caught, they're only excuse is that the law is unjust from their point of view.

And to junki3korean, maybe you don't know this, but it has been proven that one joint contains 20 times more poisonous chemicals than a whole packet of cigarettes. You might want to do some research before making ridiculous claims.

Just my 2 cents

onzestan

Sir,

it is you who really must do some research before urging others to do so.

Please look at what you say.

Lets look at what you say, more holes that a swiss cheese I am afraid.

"20 times more poison ..."

darling disregard any round figues like this please, surely they should raise a few bells. So it is exactly 20 times is it?, Not 18 not 17 and a half, but a nice round 20,mmm,

oh dear ,oh dear, moving on now...

"been proven" by whom sweety? In your logic then I have been dead a long time ago...There is no proof.

Research that.

'20 times poison that a pack of cigerettes.." really, which brand? high tar/low tar/menthol..?

Could you please be just a tad more vague. I do love the standards upon which your research has been done. Eg- none.

And please now tell me the world standard for 1 joint? Is it 1 gram of smoke , and half. 2%. 20%. Which?

What is the tobbaco ratio? can you answer any of the above? Perhap its 20 times more tobbaco that marijuana, is that correct?

You must be our guest speaker at a cannibis cup please.

Can I print this off and get you to sign it?

We have alot of hope with people like you presenting such well researched arguements.

And the kicker is that you ask others to do the research. I want to kiss you!

kisses

Ha sounds like you are stoned today............. have another and chill.............. its not your fault you have an addiction. Its probably in your genes.

I have one as well LBFM is my sin. just cant give em up..

[Kerryd]

I have one as well LBFM is my sin. just cant give em up..

Ahhh, LBFM Addiction. Very serious. Often harder to kick, and more deadly than the worst illegal narcotics ! Even months of clean living and total abstinence only serves to make the cravings worse !

But on the other hand, very few people have been known to commit robberies, assaults, B&Es and assorted other petty crimes to feed their LBFM habit.

While LBFM addicts may get into vehicle accidents, it's not (usually) because they are high on LBFMs. Another plus is that getting caught with properly aged LBFMs won't normally result in jail and deportation, even in large quantities !

(Note that getting caught buying and/or selling LBFMs would likely result in one finding out the hard way what it's like to be a "taker" instead of a "giver" !)

LBFM Addiction is the only addiction I know of, where the cure (if it exists) is to partake of even more LBFMs ! And unlike various illegal substances, LBFM addicts that die of an overdose usually go out with a smile on their face !

I am writing a thesis on this addiction, and have been doing considerable field work, getting to know the problem first hand. Assuming I survive long enough, I expect to earn my Ph.D in this field. It may take many more years of intensive study, but I am committed to the task.

(it has been amazingly hard trying to get funding grants to study this addiction though. It seems mainstream society would prefer to turn a blind eye towards people suffering from this affliction. I shall have to petition the UN for funds, and maybe Pfizer !)

[gpdjohn]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

Gosh, sounds like a throw back to a different era.

Yep, don't want them around the whores or drunks. How terrible would that be!

[Kerryd]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

Gosh, sounds like a throw back to a different era.

Yep, don't want them around the whores or drunks. How terrible would that be!

Have you ever had to deal with pushers and addicts personally ?

Give me drunks and dames any day. Much more predictable and safer.

[kedawi]

"l with pushers and addicts " - now there's a phrase from the 1950s!

[hullmonkey1]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

The guy was a fool to dabble in thailand so I have no sympathy for him but only a total PR1CK would brand a person a lowlife for smoking a bit of weed.

[gpdjohn]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

Gosh, sounds like a throw back to a different era.

Yep, don't want them around the whores or drunks. How terrible would that be!

Have you ever had to deal with pushers and addicts personally ?

Give me drunks and dames any day. Much more predictable and safer.

Why yes...yes I have. More than you ever will & I'm sure and at a level you cannot or will ever imagine.

After 20+ years as a street cop, in the 5th largest city in the United States, where I worked in a criminal street gang suppression unit ( 17 yrs ) and dealing/arresting dealers of narcotic substances daily & nightly during those 17 years, I wish pot would be made legal, taxed, age restricted and enjoyed by all who wish to use it in a safe and responsible manner, not to be sent to prison and or jail.

I found through my extensive "research" of dealing with drunks, and on how extremely violent they can become in a matter of a blink of an eye, give me a "hop head" " druggie" any day.

Some of the things I have read here are like stepping back 40 years in time. Like listening to the movie "Refer Madness" with blindfolds on.

Amazing Thailand.

[Kerryd]

"l with pushers and addicts " - now there's a phrase from the 1950s!

Pretty lame attempt to make it look like it is a dated phrase, as though that invalidates any other aspect of the discussion.

I wouldn't know about the 50's, but that is how they are commonly referred to even now. Some people say dealers and junkies. Same thing.

And how do you refer to them in your world ?

Harmless facilitators of recreational enlightenment and physiologically-challenged consumers of the aforementioned enlightenment ?

Butter it up all you want. Even in all wise and wonderful Amsterdam, there are pushers and there are addicts. You may want to rose-tint the world, but I've been there and seen it first hand.

The good news (to me) is, most of the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with you, and until they do (if ever), you're out of luck if you want to use drugs in those places. Should you decide to do so any ways, I will have no sympathy what so ever if you get caught.

[Kerryd]

Why yes...yes I have. More than you ever will & I'm sure and at a level you cannot or will ever imagine.

After 20+ years as a street cop, in the 5th largest city in the United States, where I worked in a criminal street gang suppression unit ( 17 yrs ) and dealing/arresting dealers of narcotic substances daily & nightly during those 17 years, I wish pot would be made legal, taxed, age restricted and enjoyed by all who wish to use it in a safe and responsible manner, not to be sent to prison and or jail.

I found through my extensive "research" of dealing with drunks, and on how extremely violent they can become in a matter of a blink of an eye, give me a "hop head" " druggie" any day.

Some of the things I have read here are like stepping back 40 years in time. Like listening to the movie "Refer Madness" with blindfolds on.

Amazing Thailand.

While I haven't (fortunately) had as much experience as you apparently, I do have to disagree a bit.

It seems ever since I was a kid, I've been around people that have smoked pot and hash, and yes, they don't tend to be as violent as hard core drinkers. But as I mentioned somewhat earlier, I've never known hard core drinkers to progress on to other substances, like I've known a lot of pot smokers who have.

In BC it is really hard to get jail time for pot, even when caught with 80 kilos ! A couple years ago a guy from a town I used to live in got nailed trying to take his harvest to market. The police confiscated the load, and let him go with a "Promise to Appear" at a later date. 80 kgs !!

The next year, he still hadn't gone to court, and he was busted again (growing about 5 acres of pot behind his home). I think he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and got probation, no jail time at all.

The police in BC are having a real hard time with the pot growers, in part because guess what ? The pot is being smuggled into the States, and what they are bringing back in exchange ? Guns and Coke.

Legalize it ? Booze is legal, taxed and age-restricted and look at the problems we have with under-aged drinking and drunk drivers. And we can breathalyzer the boozers and try to get them off the road.

Imagine if pot were treated the same ? I highly doubt that suddenly things would get better. And if you legalized pot, you'd have to legalize hash of course. Wouldn't that be great ? Hordes of stoned people driving on the streets, operating machinery, cooking meals in restaurants, handling your money in shops/banks.

Some people of course would try to make you believe that if we just legalized it, everyone would suddenly act responsibly ! Well, booze used to be prohibited, then they legalized it and wouldn't you know it, generations later people still don't act responsibly.

In Canada, some people are allowed to smoke marijuana for medical reason (a load of crap, judging from the people I've seen that are doing it). Has being allowed to legally smoke marijuana made these people act responsibly ? Hardly. It should come as no surprise that a number of those people have been busted for trafficking as they seem to always have a surplus that they were willing to sell to friends.

On another point. I can drink my face off and pass out in the gutter and guess what ? You won't even get a light buzz off of all the booze I drink.

But you light up a joint and everyone around you can get a buzz, like it or not.

The people I saw and had to deal with in Vancouver were way beyond pot or hash, and very prone to violence. I remember one time finding a woman in a stairwell. Called 911. Police showed up (2 officers) and just waited until the (2) para-medics arrived. The para-medics went to check the women out and she went ballistic. Took all 4 of them to pin her down and cuff her. All 105 pounds of her (she looked like a strong breeze would knock her over).

At least she didn't try to use a knife, or dirty needle or broken bottle. I was quite lucky on a few occasions (and I didn't have the advantage of carry a firearm, or taser, or even pepper spray. All I got to carry was a cell phone).

So, between the pot/hash smokers and druggies I've dealt with over the past 35 years (in a non-professional manner), and the drunks over the same period (including a lot of hard core drinkers during my 22 years in uniform), I'd still take the drinkers over the drug users.

(note: I never was a police officer, but during the years in Vancouver, I used to play hockey with a number of the Vancouver ERT guys, and they would come to our base for training and other activities. My experiences pale in comparison to what they have to put up with on a regular basis).

[kedawi]

"Pushers and addicts" is symptomatic language of someone whose knowledge on the subject is 50 years out of date.....

As for police experience.......

I regret to say that most people involved in dealing with drug related problems would regard that as a serious drawback in your understanding of the situation.

Especially in the US where they have patently failed to deal with drugs in a satisfactory way and continue policies that are neither efficacious or logical.

[ourmaninbangers]

so you never break the law do you?

I try not to knowingly break the law when I am in other countries, although sometimes I have without realizing it because of lack of knowledge on my part. For example, I didn't realize that pornography is illegal in Thailand last time I went and took some pictures I shouldn't have. I didn't get caught, and I don't even agree with this law, but does that make what I did right? I don't think so.

The fact of the matter is, it is extremely arrogant to break the law especially in another country. It is one thing to shit in your own yard, but to do it in someone else's is just rude. It makes it that much more difficult for the expats that live there.

I choose to ignore pointless, stupid, backward laws, which have failed since day 1 ,espeically when in place that are so double standard from not exactly the world most shining example of democracy,it make you cry.. or laugh

This is really a shame. What makes you think that you have the right to tell the Thai what laws they can make? I think it is senseless and arrogant to go to another country and complain because it is not like it is "back home". If you don't like the laws in the places you visit, why do you even go there?

If you continue to break the laws when you travel, then don't complain about the punishment you receive because it is most certainly justified. Your perception of the punishment not fitting the crime is irrelevant because you are the idiot that knowingly committed the crime.

I will not complain, I knw what I,am doing and have done so for many years, I will just pay a lawyer alot of money as I have done before-one thing i love about this place

they have every right to arrest me. i just do not think i have to obey stupid useless, laws that can and do not work, and have never worked

For me it is right, I do not say that to everyone. I do not have to obey the laws to go to any country, there are other reasons i go.Some come here for the ladys, that illegal too.

If you chose to be the sheep and be lead, it is your right, I choose to live my life the way i want, and thatsn to what i want, when and how

and guess what it is not a thai law, like most in orgin they were ordered to adopt it here by the west...

[ourmaninbangers]

"l with pushers and addicts " - now there's a phrase from the 1950s!

Pretty lame attempt to make it look like it is a dated phrase, as though that invalidates any other aspect of the discussion.

I wouldn't know about the 50's, but that is how they are commonly referred to even now. Some people say dealers and junkies. Same thing.

And how do you refer to them in your world ?

Harmless facilitators of recreational enlightenment and physiologically-challenged consumers of the aforementioned enlightenment ?

Butter it up all you want. Even in all wise and wonderful Amsterdam, there are pushers and there are addicts. You may want to rose-tint the world, but I've been there and seen it first hand.

The good news (to me) is, most of the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with you, and until they do (if ever), you're out of luck if you want to use drugs in those places. Should you decide to do so any ways, I will have no sympathy what so ever if you get caught.

i think alot of people would totally disagree with you- most of my friends for example. lots more in fact. And agree or not, law or not- listen- we are NOT going to stop, EVER!

so why not try something new, the silly laws are not going work, all they do is waste moneys which would be much better spent elsewhere

Pusher, dealers, etc do us a big service ( not all i might add)if you scratch below the surface you,ll see things which may suprise.

if not for stupid laws there would not be pushers, so who is to blame?

[kedawi]

Semantics -"dealers and junkies" very interesting - especially the comment "same thing" - a quick dismissive flick that actually misses a huge part of the debate about drug use.

i think some people here really need to do some research into drug use and how it relates to society.

Miost of the opinions expressed here are not actually opinions at all they are prejudices.

[hegenious]

Semantics -"dealers and junkies" very interesting - especially the comment "same thing" - a quick dismissive flick that actually misses a huge part of the debate about drug use.

i think some people here really need to do some research into drug use and how it relates to society.

Miost of the opinions expressed here are not actually opinions at all they are prejudices.

explain that to the Thai authorities

[ourmaninbangers]

Semantics -"dealers and junkies" very interesting - especially the comment "same thing" - a quick dismissive flick that actually misses a huge part of the debate about drug use.

i think some people here really need to do some research into drug use and how it relates to society.

Miost of the opinions expressed here are not actually opinions at all they are prejudices.

explain that to the Thai authorities

kedawi is correct , most opinions are simply predudices from people who really have not a clue,and why bother explaining anything to the thai authoritys....

,just flash some cash...27 years I have been here and I have never heard of one friend, assciate, friend of friend,etc who has ever done any time for any personal.

The unversal powers of the moneys- thats why I have no respect for this silly laws and another reason they will never work

and the mean of words is very very important as it leads to clarity. saying same thing will only lead to more igronance, which prevails on thai visa when discuss about he drug.

is that what we want?

[ourmaninbangers]

"l with pushers and addicts " - now there's a phrase from the 1950s!

Pretty lame attempt to make it look like it is a dated phrase, as though that invalidates any other aspect of the discussion.

I wouldn't know about the 50's, but that is how they are commonly referred to even now. Some people say dealers and junkies. Same thing.

And how do you refer to them in your world ?

Harmless facilitators of recreational enlightenment and physiologically-challenged consumers of the aforementioned enlightenment ?

Butter it up all you want. Even in all wise and wonderful Amsterdam, there are pushers and there are addicts. You may want to rose-tint the world, but I've been there and seen it first hand.

The good news (to me) is, most of the rest of the world doesn't seem to agree with you, and until they do (if ever), you're out of luck if you want to use drugs in those places. Should you decide to do so any ways, I will have no sympathy what so ever if you get caught.

Fisrt take what i saying lightly, and not to be offended, with a bit of laugh, my conext does not wish to be over rude....I think you are wrong, I,d like to know which places you have been to

I agree with him 1000% the goods news as I see it is the world is startiing to move out of the dark ages your lots still seem to be in

I think most people, the ones who take some time to do some research agree with me/,us ,

not all of coures, the people I know who think this are police, diplomats, ministers, etc.

As a child I went to one of the best schools in my country, many of the teachers used to say same, and it was common knwledge how they used to enjoy certain herbs at the staff partys, the harder stuff was more debated

these are all educated people not without some influence who have looked deeply into

out of luck" why? so what, luck does,nt come into it , does it, if so, how?

and changes zero..... do you honestly think that will stop us, we do not give a flying fxxx abut any of thse sily laws( unlike the dealers who just love laws like who help keep them rich) and that has,nt stopped anyone I know...and never will .

And evidence shows time and time again that people who want will get, whatever the laws may be/where-ever..I have never once heard

"its illegal here to do this, so I will not do it..' ha ha ha, Never.This is true for both hard and soft drugs too. Not once, from anyone,in all my years- ever... from the middle east, to US, to japan to korea, to malaya,to...everywhere

shall I go on....? all I do hear is" okay, who can we call...?" and that is the relaty that people here must accept, and deal with.You cannot/will not stop people like me from enjying ourselevs in a way we choose.

And even if caught ( and the chance is so small) whats the point? what good does that serve. Poor people who cannot pay the bribe spending the country moneys, real prgress there.

The drugs war is lost and can never win. So, shall we continue to fight silly points or face relaity?

Something that will never changes.

All it does do is make the nasty dealer we have to go to to get what we want more rich.

And as for sympathy, I do not think that is required from blinkered people who have not one iota of what really going on.

I do not wish to apprear over rudes, but really the so called war on drugs will never be won when people like you who have not clue continue to come out with such ( asking my english friend for the correct words) baldadash.in fact you help the other side, we can say' you think you know your arguement?.. read this mans mail, the case rest..."

[LtCol]

I have worked in Security in Australia & UK , as a Cop in the US (Gang Unit , SWAT , Drug Raids , Covert etc) I was Chief of the Transit ICG (Incident Control Group ) State Public Bus Transport in Western Australia for 14 + years , I worked the streets for decades in 3 Continents & trained (still do) Cops in US & Asian Countries in other areas . I have no personal feeling about Marijuana , EXCEPT, if it is illegal in the jurisdiction I live in or work in then its' a no go zone . The violent & anti-social actions by people under the influence of Drugs (ALL drugs including Alcohol) is an unbelievable sight to behold & bl---y dangerous to enforcement Officers & the Public.

On vacation in Amsterdam in 2004 I smoked a 'joint' in a Hash Bar & my wife had some Hash cake , it was LEGAL & I have always been curious. It was a disappointing experience after reading & being trained about its effects.

If you take a conscious decision to break the Law then you must be prepared to accept the consequences for your action if caught.

Do the Crime , Do the Time.

Malaysia has signs everywhere "DADA means Death" & they & the Vietnam Government just executed some dealers of VERY small quantities ( a couple of Aussies amongst them)

Bali jail has people in there for 20 years for smuggling Marijuana , & some Aussies on Death row for attempting to smuggle "H"

Does taking or smoking Dope of any kind make you so idiotic you cannot read Warnings or Understand the very basic word ILLEGAL.??

It seems simple to me if it is illegal don't do it , but hey , everyone makes their own decisions.

Now I just teach & don't work the streets except as a Consultant I have a care factor of Zero , unless you effect me or mine.

No sympathy for drug dealers of any kind, none for addicts either , because I believe that they made the first decision to go there. & don't "bleeding heart" on me as I have close relatives that are addicts & at least one convicted dealer & no sympathy for them either.

Obey the Law as it stands where you are is a good idea to keep in mind.

[kedawi]

I have worked in Security in Australia & UK , as a Cop in the US (Gang Unit , SWAT , Drug Raids , Covert etc) I was Chief of the Transit ICG (Incident Control Group ) State Public Bus Transport in Western Australia for 14 + years , I worked the streets for decades in 3 Continents & trained (still do) Cops in US & Asian Countries in other areas . I have no personal feeling about Marijuana , EXCEPT, if it is illegal in the jurisdiction I live in or work in then its' a no go zone . The violent & anti-social actions by people under the influence of Drugs (ALL drugs including Alcohol) is an unbelievable sight to behold & bl---y dangerous to enforcement Officers & the Public.

On vacation in Amsterdam in 2004 I smoked a 'joint' in a Hash Bar & my wife had some Hash cake , it was LEGAL & I have always been curious. It was a disappointing experience after reading & being trained about its effects.

If you take a conscious decision to break the Law then you must be prepared to accept the consequences for your action if caught.

Do the Crime , Do the Time.

Malaysia has signs everywhere "DADA means Death" & they & the Vietnam Government just executed some dealers of VERY small quantities ( a couple of Aussies amongst them)

Bali jail has people in there for 20 years for smuggling Marijuana , & some Aussies on Death row for attempting to smuggle "H"

Does taking or smoking Dope of any kind make you so idiotic you cannot read Warnings or Understand the very basic word ILLEGAL.??

It seems simple to me if it is illegal don't do it , but hey , everyone makes their own decisions.

Now I just teach & don't work the streets except as a Consultant I have a care factor of Zero , unless you effect me or mine.

No sympathy for drug dealers of any kind, none for addicts either , because I believe that they made the first decision to go there. & don't "bleeding heart" on me as I have close relatives that are addicts & at least one convicted dealer & no sympathy for them either.

Obey the Law as it stands where you are is a good idea to keep in mind.

THis attitude is so common until the person gets stitched up by the local police for something they'd only "half done", the law in thailand is enforced in an extremely inconsistent way, whether you hace obeyed tht law or whtever may prove to be tangential in relation to any sentence that you receive.

You may have blind faith in the authorities and the law in Thailand now but wait until you feel the other side of it....remember don't even have to break the law to get into trouble here.

[LtCol]

[quote name=

THis attitude is so common until the person gets stitched up by the local police for something they'd only "half done", the law in Thailand is enforced in an extremely inconsistent way, whether you have obeyed that law or whatever may prove to be tangential to any sentence that you receive.

You may have blind faith in the authorities and the law in Thailand now but wait until you feel the other side of it....remember don't even have to break the law to get into trouble here.

quite frankly if the law is an ass, then it deserves to be criticised.

I have NO PROBLEM with any criticsm of any Law or the inconsistincies of its enforcement & I am not that nieve that I don't know that there is a "stitch 'em up" element in all countries for a variety of reasons. In fact a West Australia Cop hid out in Phuket some time ago because he knew he had 'stitched up' some brothers in a case here in WA & eventually came back to Perth & gave it up. I have delivered presentations in Bangkok to Law Enforcement Agents. & was presented a copy of B.E. 2547 & as a Trainer of Cops & Intel Agents, I do not have a 'blinkered' outlook on Law Enforcement.

Nothing alters the FACT , if you break a Law which is good , bad or indifferent you live with the consequences.

A female Aussie Tourist was taken from her (Very Expensive) Tour to Canada at the Border gate at Niagra Falls & refused entry because she had a 9 year old conviction for Drunk Driving in Australia. Is that fair ? NO . but it is their Law. I have learnt to live with it , but, that doesn't mean I capitulate , only comply.

I am not blind in my faith in Law just try to comply. I have been responsible for the conviction of "Crooked Cops" in 2 Countries, one was a Police Commisioner , another in WA was supposedly a good friend (Senior Detective), they are worse than the street goons, but, I was doing a job & my duty , nothing personal.

I have had several attempts by different Police to "stitch me up" (Investigating Corrupt & Crooked Cops is risky at best)& have had to prove myself in Court & even a Royal Commision , so unless you have walked in my shoes don't consider my attitude 'common' , because it is far from that.

The last phoney charge against me by Police in a jurisdiction in Australia cost the Police Dept. my costs of $2,500.00 in the lower Court & did not proceed further , it was DISMISSED.

If a cop crosses the line he is no longer a cop , just a bad guy with a Badge.

Scum with authority doesn't mean I taint everyone with the brush either & I do not have 'Blind Faith' in any jurisdiction. But, I agree to your right to have your own opinion