Too Many Condo Flyers

[Jingthing]

In my view, there are way too many farangs hurling themselves from tall buildings.

Now, assuming most of those are indeed suicides, it does appear to be a more popular suicide method here than in the west. It is a very bad thing. It is a very painful way to die, it is a hazard to those on the street, and it leaves a big mess that disturbs other people.

There has to better way, right? Well, there is. It is painless death in a bottle: numbutal, used mostly for animals. Funny that we often treat animals better than humans, huh?

Apparently, still easy to find in Mexico. How about Thailand? Do the vets have it? Is this a viable option for farangs intent on doing themselves in? There are good and bad reasons to commit suicide, and if people are going to do it, why not have a humane, non-traumatic, method?

In Mexican shops, death comes in a bottle

Marc Lacey, New York Times

(07-20) 18:26 PDT Tijuana -- "Cocaine?" a hustler working Tijuana's seedy Avenida Revolucion called out on a recent night, his voice not the least bit muted.

"How about girls?"

When neither offering elicited the desired response, he tried another: "Cuban cigars?"

He could have continued for quite a bit longer reciting from Tijuana's extensive menu of contraband. One product from this border town, though, trumps all others in terms of shock value: death in a bottle.

The drug, pentobarbital, literally takes a person's breath away. It can kill by putting people to sleep, and it is tightly regulated in most countries. But aging and ailing people seeking a quick and painless way to end their lives say there is no easier place on earth than Mexico to obtain pentobarbital, a barbiturate commonly known as Nembutal.

Once widely available as a sleep aid, it is now used mostly to anesthetize animals during surgery and to euthanize them. Small bottles of its concentrated liquid form, enough to kill, can be found not on the shelves of the many discount pharmacies in Tijuana but in its pet shops, which sell a wide variety of animals as well as medications and other supplies for them.

"It is Mexico where Nembutal is most readily available," says "The Peaceful Pill Handbook," a book that lays out methods to end one's life. Co-written by Philip Nitschke, founder of Exit International, an Australian group that assists people who want to end their lives early, the book is banned in Australia and New Zealand. In the United States, though, it is only a few mouse clicks away online.

The book, as well as seminars that Nitschke offers, lays out strategies for dying. The most trouble-free and painless form of suicide, he contends, is to buy Mexican pentobarbital, which goes by brand names like Sedal-Vet, Sedalphorte and Barbithal.

Those in search of the drug, known as death tourists, scout out the veterinary pharmacies that abound in Tijuana.

Nitschke's book provides glossy photos of the many versions of pentobarbital that are most suitable for suicide. Buying it can be as easy as showing the pictures to a clerk and paying as little as $30 for a dose.

Pet shop clerks throughout Tijuana acknowledge that foreigners regularly inquire about the drug. "We've probably had 100 people come in asking for the drug in the last couple years," said Pepe Velazquez, a veterinarian and owner of the El Toro pharmacy.

Until El Norte, a regional newspaper, published an article recently that detailed how easy it was to buy pentobarbital - and how foreigners intended to use it - many store owners and clerks said they assumed the customers were using the drug to end the lives of their animals.

It turns out that some customers were buying it for human consumption. Nitschke estimates that 300 members of his group, most of them from Australia but some from the United States and Europe, have purchased the drug in Mexico in recent years. Some save it for when their health fails to the point that they no longer wish to live.

"To witness it, it looks as peaceful as can be," Nitschke said of death by pentobarbital. "I usually recommend that they take it with their favorite drink, since it has a bitter taste. I've never seen anyone finish their whiskey or champagne. There isn't enough time to give a speech. You go to sleep and then you die."

But now that word is out that the drug is being used for human consumption, local authorities have sought to clamp down on unauthorized purchases. Shops are now supposed to sell the drug only to licensed veterinarians who present a prescription.

Don Flounders, 78, suffers from mesothelioma, a rare and deadly form of cancer usually linked to exposure to asbestos. He had no problem getting pentobarbital when he traveled from Australia to Los Angeles in January and then crossed the border to Tijuana for a shopping trip.

"I went into the first shop that was advertised as being a vet and I showed the photo, and they handed it over," he said in a telephone interview from Australia.

Getting it home was more of a challenge. It is illegal to bring pentobarbital into the United States, and Exit International says U.S. Customs officers have seized the drug from at least three of its members. The group says no members have been caught with the drug by Australian customs officers.

But once he was home, Flounders, who campaigns on behalf of euthanasia, talked to a television news crew about his purchase. He was filmed bringing a bottle to a friend, Angie Belecciu, 56, who is dying of cancer and who helped to finance his trip to Mexico. Both of their houses were later searched by the Australian Federal Police. Assisted suicide is illegal in Australia.

Neither Flounders nor Belecciu has used the pentobarbital, and charges have not been filed against either of them.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[dotcom]

How do you know condo diving is painful? Have you tried it?

The selfish sods just leave a mess for others to clean.

[Jingthing]

How do you know condo diving is painful? Have you tried it?

The selfish sods just leave a mess for others to clean.

I have read graphic medical descriptions of what happens to jumpers. I am under the impression that the death is usually/often not 100 percent instant. I understand why you call the jumpers selfish. However, maybe they don't feel they have another realistic method option that they are psychologically CAPABLE of carrying out.

Note: I think some might see this topic as a trollish post. I see what you mean. But I am serious. I would like to see suicidal people have other options. A help line, certainly, but if people are going to do it, I would like there to be cleaner, more humane ways.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

I guess the OP doesn't have a problem with Thai students doing it or middle aged Thai ladies jumping off the BTS platform in Bangkok.

But using local logic, this is not a mess nor an inconvenience, except for those that jumped.

[Jingthing]

I focused on farangs jumping because I have noticed that suicidal Thais usually use other methods (hanging and eating rat poison appear to be popular). Statistically, men and women also tend to use different methods. Of course, I would want the humane methods to be available to all suicidals in Thailand, whatever nationality. (Duh.) I plead guilty to the OP being farang-centric, that really should not be at all relevant to the core of the topic: humane suicide methods and the question of their availability in Thailand.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[teacup]

If only the farangs can learn from each other,.....then we wouldn't see too many flyers.

[bkkjames]

I focused on farangs jumping because I have noticed that suicidal Thais usually use other methods (hanging and eating rat poison appear to be popular). Statistically, men and women also tend to use different methods. Of course, I would want the humane methods to be available to all suicidals in Thailand, whatever nationality. (Duh.) I plead guilty to the OP being farang-centric, that really should not be at all relevant to the core of the topic: humane suicide methods and the question of their availability in Thailand.

There was a guy in the USA named Dr Kevorkian that you should look up should you feel the urge. Apparently his methods are humane and the only mess one needs to clean up is the feces.

[DeeMaiDee]

A lit charcoal burner, far less mess and painless.

A fire hazard yes but done properly that could be avoided.

[spectrum]

But using local logic, this is not a mess nor an inconvenience, except for those that jumped.

In fact, other people have been injured and even killed, I believe, when hit by someone jumping .

I agree with jingthing. I hope it won't be too many more years before we can look back on our current, uncivilized attitudes to death.

People with fatal diseases still die in totally unnecessary, prolonged agony. If I end up with dementia, I'd prefer not to linger hopelessly and in misery.

I believe we should have the right to end our own lives. Of course, there must be counselling and other help available to adults contemplating suicide but in the end the decision should be theirs. Knowing the decision was reached somewhat rationally, and not on pure impulse, might even bring their families some consolation and understanding, perhaps ?

How much money you have is a determining factor in this, obviously. Rich people don't swallow industrial poisons.

Edited July 21, 2008 by spectrum

[bkkjames]

But using local logic, this is not a mess nor an inconvenience, except for those that jumped.

In fact, other people have been injured and even killed, I believe, when hit by someone jumping .

I agree with jingthing. I hope it won't be too many more years before we can look back on our current, uncivilized attitudes to death.

People with fatal diseases still die in totally unnecessary, prolonged agony. If I end up with dementia, I'd prefer not to linger hopelessly and in misery.

I believe we should have the right to end our own lives. Of course, there must be counselling and other help available to adults contemplating suicide but in the end the decision should be theirs. Knowing the decision was reached somewhat rationally, and not on pure impulse, might even bring their families some consolation and understanding, perhaps ?

How much money you have is a determining factor in this, obviously. Rich people don't swallow industrial poisons.

So what we should get TAT to do is put up a sign on the way into Pattaya.

"For those who are about to jump, please be careful where you do it as to not hit anyone. Those failing to do this will be subject to a 2000 Baht fine."

[tijnebijn]

A weird thread ...Why not make a poll ' the best ways to kill yourself '

give me a break .

[Jai Dee]

Promoting a "better way" is entirely unsuitable for the Forum.

From the Forum Rules:

By using this service you agree;

1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which... referencing suicide....

/Closed.