Honestly. Is It Possible To Drive Legally Here?

[thaidrew]

Well guys it seems that there is no limit top their imagination. I feel sorry for the ones who are stopped, and next time I am waved at I will ignore and drive on. On my last visit to the big smoke, BKK, I was stopped on the way home because I was driving TOO SLOWLY. Now I have had a few disagreements with the law before for going a little over the odds, but driving too slow???????? Anyway I was holding 80+km so it was obviously just a scam and the asking price for the misdemeanor was 400bt, that changed to 200bt upon the suggestion that perhaps I could pay now as I was IN A HURRY! All in a good cause eh. But the answer is easy as I was advised by a BIB friend, just put a sticker on the windshield showing police cadet and no more probs, well it is los, and anything is poss.

[hans1977]

This is absolutely fabulous! You were waved in for driving too slow, and then suggested to pay there and then because you were in a hurry.

/Hans

Well guys it seems that there is no limit top their imagination. I feel sorry for the ones who are stopped, and next time I am waved at I will ignore and drive on. On my last visit to the big smoke, BKK, I was stopped on the way home because I was driving TOO SLOWLY. Now I have had a few disagreements with the law before for going a little over the odds, but driving too slow???????? Anyway I was holding 80+km so it was obviously just a scam and the asking price for the misdemeanor was 400bt, that changed to 200bt upon the suggestion that perhaps I could pay now as I was IN A HURRY! All in a good cause eh. But the answer is easy as I was advised by a BIB friend, just put a sticker on the windshield showing police cadet and no more probs, well it is los, and anything is poss.

[hans1977]

One of my Thai friends told me that the police usually asks him if he would feel convenient to proceed at the police station. His policy is to say "yes" to that offer, so i suppose the experience at the police station for a Thai is usually better?

/Hans

A common answer to this type of thread is "just pay it", but why should we? The longer people continue to pay money to these thieves, sorry I mean police officers, the longer these scams will continue.

I realise nothing is going to change and I will soon get fed up with swimming against the tide, but I for one would like to be a law abiding citizen who does not have to keep paying "these creative buggers" (I like that phrase) because they have thought of a new scam.

Rant over.

The first time i got pulled over for something that i did not do i refused to pay. This resulted in my having to go to the local police station the next day(sometimes not so easy to find) since the officer had to finish his shift before he could take my licens to the station. The next day when i went to get my license back i had to wait a couple of hours to get to see the guy that had my license. The worst part was that i had to listen to an half hour lecture from this guy about how bad of a person i was to come to thailand and break the traffic laws. He then fined me 400 baht and said it would be double next time. On top of this waste of time I hear they now have a points system in place.

Ever since this experience i always pay on the spot no matter how stupid the reason is they pulled me over.

[chrisyork]

I feel able to give a reasonably authoritive answer here as my significant other has recently completed the Five Year training to be a policeman. The basic rules of the game are actually set at very high level. Thailand has chosen to be very heavily policed. The ratio of police per head of population is several orders of magnitude higher than in the west. Remember that within living memory it was completely unacceptable to be away from your home village, never mind have your own transport unless a member of the ruling elite, so a high level of control is ingrained in Thai society. This has both pluses and minuses. It is completely alien to the individualist mindset of westerners, but it makes for a very safe and secure environment for those willing to abide by the rules. But back to the police. Of course with this many police Thailand can't afford the wage bill that would go with paying them an amount commensurate with their status. So they are payed literally peanuts including up to the most senior echelons expected to mix it in the golf set. From memory a basic constable is around 1,000THB per month, which is comparable with one of our farm labourers, in other words next to nothing. ALL levels of the force therefore have no option but to supplement their income from the pockets of the public at large. And as various posters have suspected it is quite organised and codified. With minor exceptions it is extremely unlikely anyone here will have been stopped because they are a farang, but having been stopped of course the bill will be greater than for a Thai! This experience is universal to all Thais as well and Farangs are caught up in it almost by accident. Senior officers who do not have direct access to the public will actually send out a team specifically charged to generate them a specific amount of revenue, junior officers will be reprimanded if they are thought to be milking too hard. Officers have a code of handsignals between them so that off duty officers can know not to charge their own. A bit like the Masons in Europe!

Now it's up to you to dislike this practice intensely - and I do - but I have to acknowledge from seeing it at close quarters that it works both for the officers and the Thai people. Best to think of it as a form of taxation; as a farang you are of course in the fortunate position of only paying sales tax and not any of the others like income tax! This is a foreign culture so westerners are just going to have to adapt to it until the Thai's decide to do something about it themselves.

Interestingly I think the fall of Thaksin has generated a new attitude in Thais. Where previously this police corruption was tolerated, now it is beginning to attract serious rumblings of discontent. I had the experience of being stopped and "taxed" recently and after the event gave voice to my distaste as usual. This time there was an echoing chorus of agreement from the senior Thais in the car with me, something completely unthinkable a couple of years ago! Also my significant other, having completed the five years with flying colours, decided, along with around 15% of the class, that they weren't prepared to tolerate a life of this sort of corruption and declined to join the force. That was extremely expensive for the police in training facilities etc etc and also unprecedented.

Perhaps then the undercurrent of change is in the air - but remeber this is Thailand, so we farang won't get to hear anything until after it's happened!

Chris

[LivinLOS]

I feel able to give a reasonably authoritive answer here as my significant other has recently completed the Five Year training to be a policeman.

From memory a basic constable is around 1,000THB per month

I understood the base level starting salary to be many multiples of that.. 6 - 8k per month as the lowest.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Got 3 bikes, 1 car, been here 7 years, only paid 2 fines, 300 for speeding, 300 for no helmet, must be lucky

[chrisyork]

Quote: "I understood the base level starting salary to be many multiples of that.. 6 - 8k per month as the lowest."

Good lord no! The one I do know exactly is for a sergeant in the traffic police in charge of a reasonable size area which is 4,000THB. Clearly constables are substantially lower. Perhaps there are higher salaries in Bangkok? But I rather doubt it - I suspect the "taxation" rate is just rather higher!

Possibly the number you mention is a view of what a constable "earns"? A Thai would phrase it like that and a farang might misinterpret that as salary whereas in fact it would be the combination of salary and "tax". 6 -8k per month is definitevely middle class comparable with a dairy farmer with own land and around 25 cattle after expenses.

Chris

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Hi,

I just came back from a trip to Bangkok. I was called in by the police just after Ekamai and fined for not having registered the Carryboy installation.

The Carryboy was there when i bought my car, and they did not say anything about it when i renewed the registration last month; they just said that everything was in order.

Are the police doing this to people just because they think they really ought to get some extra money (thus, unavoidable), or am i supposed to go somewhere else, other than the Office of Land Transportation, to get my car checked from a legal point of view?

Anyway, i payed the fine (300 THB) to a supervisor, so the whole thing was either in order or all of them were probably a part of the scam.

/Hans

Hi,

Happy to see that I'm lucky as I never paid more than 100 thb after bargaining, smiling, and laughing, have you tried that ?

Don't you think that 300 is too much? (I know some Thai who pay 50 thb !)

I just got an idea, should we start a thread to tell others where are the police check points lately? Because as you have certainly seen when they install a mobile checkpoint somewhere they always "work" there at least few days (to test if it is a good spot to make money?).

Lately I've seen them every night near Thonglor but on Petchaburi road, at the junction with Soi soon Vijai where is the Bangkok hospital, they stop cars coming from 3 ways of the junction, so beware !

Also I always feel safer when it's a real big check point with many cops than being stopped by just 2 MIB on their small motorbike, do you feel the same ? (another problem is that when they are only two the temptation to drive on them with the car is big! ;-) )

Enjoy!

[MarkBKK]

Well guys it seems that there is no limit top their imagination. I feel sorry for the ones who are stopped, and next time I am waved at I will ignore and drive on. On my last visit to the big smoke, BKK, I was stopped on the way home because I was driving TOO SLOWLY. Now I have had a few disagreements with the law before for going a little over the odds, but driving too slow???????? Anyway I was holding 80+km so it was obviously just a scam and the asking price for the misdemeanor was 400bt, that changed to 200bt upon the suggestion that perhaps I could pay now as I was IN A HURRY! All in a good cause eh. But the answer is easy as I was advised by a BIB friend, just put a sticker on the windshield showing police cadet and no more probs, well it is los, and anything is poss.

Wow! Damned fiendish, Johnny Foreigner. Copying what the police in the UK have been doing for at least 25 years. Is their no end to their devious ways?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

if you're on a motorbike, best is to wear a full-face helmet - they can't pick you for being a Farang as they can't see that I make 400 kilometers per week currently in Bangkok on my somewhat non-standard motorbike and i am VERY rarely stopped, even tough i pass a minimum of two checks each day, often up to five.

Just today again, just after the Sukhumvit - Soi 77 intersection traffic light (direction towards Phra Khanong), they were standing, stopping motorbikes that dared to use any but the left-most lane. Now if you are going on towards Phra Khanong, you MUST use the middle lane to get onto the bridge as the left-most lane is for a u-turn UNDER that bridge.

For the cops that fact is sufficient to harrass around 80% of the motorbikes that do nothing but want to go straight on instead of using that u-turn...... but for me, lucky this time, i actually NEEDED to u-turn there so was not stopped!

I was stopped several times when they positioned themselves at the Sukhumvit Soi 50 intersection (besides Tesco Lotus On Nut) and again stopped everyone using any but the left-most lane. Knowing they are there i of course used that lane, but got stopped nevertheless - they always want to see the driving license (i've got a Thai one) and that's it.

Once i was stopped with my boyfriend as passenger, they didn't want to see anything but just talked to him for a couple of minutes and let us go, he then explained to me they just wanted to know what type of bike it is (it's only written all over it in like fives places, how can anyone see that??) and, since it is (after they knew it's REALLY an RXZ!) "such an old bike" they had to know if he (of course the Farang can't own a bike, right??) had the green book and if tax and insurance were paid. When my boyfriend then explained that it was in fact MY bike and everything was indeed paid and the book safe at home, once again they let us go.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[samran]

Yes, it would be really nice to know how to make sure the car is legal!

/Hans

This thread was all about what do you have to do to stay legal, not really sure that it has been answered yet.

AFAIK, any changes to the vehicle need to be reflected in you blue book. Change the car colour, you need to register it. Change the engine, same again. I guess the same goes for installing a carry boy.

As for is it possible to drive legally here? In my book yes. Simple rule, don't do anything in thailand you wouldn't do at home, and you'll generally be fine. Twelve years of driving in Bangkok under my belt...so I guess I feel a bit qualified to answer in this way.

Two fines in my entire time here, both times, my fault. My wife, blond haired and blue eyed has been pinged once...again, her fault. We got the ticket and paid the fine. I always ask for a ticket as if they are trying it on with something imagined, they haven't got a leg to stand on. They know this.

As someone said in another thread, the coppers these days will only generally ping your for a real infringement, not an imagined one.

[frankman]

Just pay and smile.

[hans1977]

I'm always friendly with them, and try to make them feel that they are having a good time. Sometimes they just let me go, and sometimes i have to pay some (usually less then 300 THB). The policeman him self did not ask for any money this time. He left it all to the supervisor, who gave me the ticket stating the charges as well as what i was charged for.

My Thai friends used to tell me to speak only English with them to avoid paying, but i have found that to give the exact opposite result.

/Hans

Hi,

I just came back from a trip to Bangkok. I was called in by the police just after Ekamai and fined for not having registered the Carryboy installation.

The Carryboy was there when i bought my car, and they did not say anything about it when i renewed the registration last month; they just said that everything was in order.

Are the police doing this to people just because they think they really ought to get some extra money (thus, unavoidable), or am i supposed to go somewhere else, other than the Office of Land Transportation, to get my car checked from a legal point of view?

Anyway, i payed the fine (300 THB) to a supervisor, so the whole thing was either in order or all of them were probably a part of the scam.

/Hans

Hi,

Happy to see that I'm lucky as I never paid more than 100 thb after bargaining, smiling, and laughing, have you tried that ?

Don't you think that 300 is too much? (I know some Thai who pay 50 thb !)

I just got an idea, should we start a thread to tell others where are the police check points lately? Because as you have certainly seen when they install a mobile checkpoint somewhere they always "work" there at least few days (to test if it is a good spot to make money?).

Lately I've seen them every night near Thonglor but on Petchaburi road, at the junction with Soi soon Vijai where is the Bangkok hospital, they stop cars coming from 3 ways of the junction, so beware !

Also I always feel safer when it's a real big check point with many cops than being stopped by just 2 MIB on their small motorbike, do you feel the same ? (another problem is that when they are only two the temptation to drive on them with the car is big! ;-) )

Enjoy!

[hans1977]

I know that i have to register the changes i make to the car, but i didn't install the carryboy and i would have expected them to point this out (as well as any other legal problems with the car) at the annual registration procedure, but they just said everything was fine.

/Hans

Yes, it would be really nice to know how to make sure the car is legal!

/Hans

This thread was all about what do you have to do to stay legal, not really sure that it has been answered yet.

AFAIK, any changes to the vehicle need to be reflected in you blue book. Change the car colour, you need to register it. Change the engine, same again. I guess the same goes for installing a carry boy.

As for is it possible to drive legally here? In my book yes. Simple rule, don't do anything in thailand you wouldn't do at home, and you'll generally be fine. Twelve years of driving in Bangkok under my belt...so I guess I feel a bit qualified to answer in this way.

Two fines in my entire time here, both times, my fault. My wife, blond haired and blue eyed has been pinged once...again, her fault. We got the ticket and paid the fine. I always ask for a ticket as if they are trying it on with something imagined, they haven't got a leg to stand on. They know this.

As someone said in another thread, the coppers these days will only generally ping your for a real infringement, not an imagined one.

[hans1977]

I've spent half a day and about 250 Bath at the office today to sort this out. I have just to look forward to future checkups, i suppose...

/Hans

I've been to the Office of Land Transportation today. The problem now more accurately appears to be that they've changed the total weight of the car by fitting the enclosure to it.

So, they have asked me to go to measure the weight at a weight station and come back to show them the weight certificate (or whatever it will be called).

The policeman said it's "no problem, just pay 150 Bath to get it sorted out, and then you'll have not have to pay the fine to the police every day", but it's not about paying 150 THB to operate in accordance with the law that is the point; the point is that it also implies a bloody saga to go here, there and everywhere (wasting a bloody day) and yet, tomorrow i'm getting charged for driving wearing a white shirt (or whatever).

I recently installed an LPG system followed by the registration extension at the Office of Land Transportation. The LPG system also changed the total weight of the car, but there were no requirements on heaving the weight checked to get the installation approved. Also, i think they should have told me that the enclosure was illegal and refused to extend the registration before i'd got the weight measured and added to the book. It just doesn't make any sense, at all, how they operate!

/Hans

Hi,

I just came back from a trip to Bangkok. I was called in by the police just after Ekamai and fined for not having registered the Carryboy installation.

The Carryboy was there when i bought my car, and they did not say anything about it when i renewed the registration last month; they just said that everything was in order.

Are the police doing this to people just because they think they really ought to get some extra money (thus, unavoidable), or am i supposed to go somewhere else, other than the Office of Land Transportation, to get my car checked from a legal point of view?

Anyway, i payed the fine (300 THB) to a supervisor, so the whole thing was either in order or all of them were probably a part of the scam.

/Hans

[dave_boo]

Don't feel badly. My in-laws, who are farmers and therefore quite, let's say 'salty' in their lingo call police "เย็ดลิง".

(for those who can't read Thai, it's a pejorative term implying that they have 'special' relationships with members of the simian family.

[mgjackson69]

Just a few observations to add:

1) A previous poster mentioned about "until recently it was unacceptable to be away from the home village" (I am paraphrasing a bit). I can say that very nearly every time that I have been stopped, one of the first questions is "bpai nai" (where are you going?). I would attribute this in part to the aforementioned, and in part due to the fact that Thais seem to be "nosy"...when my wife gets a call from a friend or family member, she immediately goes into a spiel about where we are, what are we doing, etc etc etc...followed by what we have eaten today

2) My pickup truck has the "bed lid that raises to make a canopy". I was stopped on the tollway in BKK for having some passengers back there....after driving from Korat with no issues. I had to pay a fine (I think 400 THB) and put everyone into the cab until we were off the tollway...Din Daeng to Dao Khanong (roughly) with 11 people in the cab of a 4-door Vigo. As the driver, I had plenty of space, but nobody else did...

3) A few weeks ago the wife and I were headed from Chok Chai into Korat to do my application for extension of stay. Thus, we were both nicely dressed for the interview (I have found that good grooming helps when dealing with almost everyone...I never fly in "shorts, singlet, and sandals" either). Two BIB were working on 224 and waved me over. As soon as I rolled the window down, the wife and I both said "Sawasdee khrap/ka". The officer took one look and immediately waved us on.

I have no idea what that one was about, as I was certainly over the speed limit, as usual. The wife and I settled on (a) they were looking for someone in particular, or at least not looking for a farang, or ( they better-than-average mode of dress made a favorable impression. I did not stick around to ask.