Bail Controversy : Court Frees Tourists’ Killer

[plachon]

The Thais are used to extrajudicial killings by police at their discretion. This sort of thing rarely makes the headlines when it involves Thai citizens.

I have a very high opinion of Thailand and its people, but this sort of incident is the largest single drawback, worse than any criminal gangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll second these thoughts Stroll. It's great pity when extra-judicial killings become "the norm" in a society, but it can only be that society's awareness of the malaise and willingness to reform that is ever going to change anything. Maybe it is still too early days yet, but I see many positive developments occurring, once the current D.L. has moved over to a new role (Minister for Inactive Hubs?)

Thanks for your thoughts too Golf. They're refreshing to read.

[bluebear]

The Thais are used to extrajudicial killings by police at their discretion. This sort of thing rarely makes the headlines when it involves Thai citizens.

I have a very high opinion of Thailand and its people, but this sort of incident is the largest single drawback, worse than any criminal gangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll second these thoughts Stroll. It's great pity when extra-judicial killings become "the norm" in a society, but it can only be that society's awareness of the malaise and willingness to reform that is ever going to change anything. Maybe it is still too early days yet, but I see many positive developments occurring, once the current D.L. has moved over to a new role (Minister for Inactive Hubs?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is even worse if you think about it is, whats the next step?

The thai public are brainwashed / browbeaten into thinking 2000 odd deaths in the drugs wars was ok, then the killings down south.

Are we seeing the start of Chile in the 70s where thousands disappeared each year for daring to think or criticising either national or local powers that be?

[DJ Pat]

Why are any of you surprised?

[bluebear]

Why are any of you surprised?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not surprised - just sad it was predictable. Still doesnt make it right.

[easymoney]

Some years ago had a run in with this Alpha Hotel. He was at time furoughed out of Kanchanaburi to Ratchaburi area. He was nortoriuos for his escapades. When I had run with him at my restuarant he pulled a 357 but lucky for me a couple of off duty police were there and when he saw them lowered his gun and walked out. I made a report but to no avail. I heard later he obtained the Guesthouse/restuarant by dubious means. He is scum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please tell us some more about this guy and this incident,will you?

Why did he pull the gun?

There might be a lesson or two in your story if we get more details.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The lead up to the incident is that my wife had asked him if he could pull up to the restaurant across a driveway from my place. He did but cussed at her. I arrived ten minutes later with truck load of goods from Bangkok. The evening went on and she forgot to tell me but the AH was at the other restaurant getting roaring drunk. Someone must have told him I was the owner and no farang was going to boss him around. He came into the restaurant and talking crap and pulled the gun on me. The two Police were friends and stood up immediately and as I said before he lowered the weapon and ran out. He is well protected by who he moonlights for and that is a senator.

That was the last day in Kanchanaburi I went unarmed. I was lucky that two police officers were eating at my place. This scum bag has killed more than once and that came from the police. Before I get jumped on about being armed I spent 20 years in law enforcement so I do know the responsibility of carrying. I do know that this guy only gets his due outside the judicary in that province. I moved to avoid any fuirther incidents.

In the 9 months I had the restaurant there were 7 murders of farangs in the city alone and no one ever brought up on charges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This scum bag has killed more than once and that came from the police.

In the 9 months I had the restaurant there were 7 murders of farangs in the city alone and no one ever brought up on charges.

Unbelievable!

When did these murders happen and what were the victims' nationalities!

Where they reported in the media?

That was the last day in Kanchanaburi I went unarmed

Was this before or after you obtained Thai nationality?You need a document from the police station for a legal fire-arm,don't you?

Thanks for telling the story of this psychopath!

Snowleopard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This happened during March-Dec 1998 . If I remember correctly a Brit, 2 Isralies, Finn and can't remember the others. Odd thing was most occurred on road that runs from Jolly Frog to Brigde over River Kwai. Runs past AH guest house but he didn't own it then. Only saw one blurp in Bangkok Post on one killing.

I was not a Thai citizen at the time but wife had gun and several Officers at the 9th Infantry offered their weapons. I carried because this guy had a reputation .

I made up mind as soon as could sell would and did. This incident occurred early Oct 98 and took me two months to get out of dodge. Errie thing was he lived same estate as we did . I had several family members living with us at time so we had around the clock security there. I don't think he ever knew we lived same estate.

Yes you do need to be a thai citizen and clear through police. The new regs call for only one hand gun and one long gun. There are waiting list now as most dealers are only allowed 2 of each a month to sell. That may be more than most want but the reality is that even most Thai business men and politicians carry small arsenals in their cars . I've seen M-79's MP5's, M16 and countless small hand guns carried in their trunks. This is still pretty much the wild west and especially in the provinces scores are often settled by violence usually a month to 6 later

[stroll]

This sounds alarming. I doubt a gun would help in case of an ambush, folks like that make sure you won't have enough time to defend yourself. I was in a situation not quite as bad, but I was worried enough to vary my route and time of going to work frequently.

[toastwars]

When will the critical mass of this crap actually tip the balance in Thailand. Can anyone tell me what gets printed in Thai language papers? is it generally the same as in the Bangkok Post or the Nation? Ordinary people must realise that corruption is destroying their country, all I read is corrupt officials, police, major projects, customs ec ect. How can anything be achived in a lawless society like this, they must see what happens, look around, can you see an unfinished road project derailed by everyone involved stealing the budget as fast as possible, It is your money these people are stealing

[kat]

Are we seeing the start of Chile in the 70s where thousands disappeared each year for daring to think or criticising either national or local powers that be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we seeing the start of Chile? I think it has always been, albeit on a smaller scale. What was it - 17 or 18 activists killed over the last 2 years? And these are just the incidents reported in the press. I personally know of a crisis center for abused girls that gets death threats frequently. I mean, a crisis center for abused girls - how bloody low do you have to get?

[eljeque]

I thank the other writers who have written to newpapers overseas. I may be wrong, but the tabloids might be better than the "legitimate" newpapers. I just sent the lead article and a footnote to the Sun and the Daily Mirror. I urge all other readers to do the same.

[Chaz]

That would make one tosser less around these parts in future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Leaving are you Stroll? Moron.

[booman]

Love this place, hate this place.

Can't live with it, can't live with..err, where is my beer?

[bkk_punter]

What a topsy-turvy world Thailand has become, where unarmed white men fear for their safety at the hands of primitive armed savages. Un-######-believable.

But, wait a minute, as an American I should recognize this situation, shouldn’t I? It is just like when Americans go to Mexico. Muggings, thefts, kidnappings, murders, police preying on foreigners, corruption at all levels, corrupt judges, corrupt politicians, and out-of-control armed police.

So, Thailand has become the Mexico of Southeast Asia. There really is a close parallel.

The difference is that Mexico is a too-close neighbor to America, and Georgia Bushie is not inclined to do much about the Mexican Problem.

I wonder, would there be “instant justice” for the gun-wielding Thai Pig in question if England simply issued a travel advisory and warning for Thailand, and encouraged British citizens to avoid a country that is clearly Lawless, Corrupt, and Dangerous? I suspect that Toxin would sense some loss of Thai Dignity, such as it is, and he would surely worry even more about Thai Tourist Revenues, and perhaps the offending oinker would eventually be found face down in the mud with a 158 grain SJHP .357 Magnum hole in the cranium. God bless Smith and Wesson.

What about those of us that live here, do business here, and contend with the growing rate of Thai crime against Foreigners? Even if unarmed (no lethal weapons), do I have any right of self-defense against Thai scum?

I had an incident happen earlier today where two Thai jungle bunnies on a moto-bike snatched my wife’s purse at the intersection of Soi 35 and Sukhumvit, near the Emporium, in broad daylight, I gave chase on foot and I narrowly missed grabbing one of the grinning rice monkeys. Now, if I had been about a tenth of a second quicker in my sprint, and if I had managed to pull the scum off the bike and beat the dawg shit out of him (and recover my lady’s purse) would I have been guilty of a “crime” under what passes for law in Thailand?

Any one want to guess the answer?

[Heng]

I just don't get it. Does Taksin not have any power in this country.

I'm sure he can arrange to acquire more power if you're not happy with how much he has now.

[Heng]

He posted 1 million baht bail!

The Restaurant and police must pay well!

I agree with you all "Unbelievable"

He probably had to borrow the funds. Policemen are some of the worst savers around (that's including some of the top guys). You go to collect a debt from one and there's another 3 right behind him wanting to get a loan.

As an alternative to the suggestions to create a trade and tourism embargo (as likely as some posters apparently believe is "easy" to do, lol) to bring this killer to justice, I'd suggest more common sense on the part of foreigners visiting the kingdom. For example: less confrontational behaviour with those in positions of power and law enforcement; >>you wouldn't do it back home, you shouldn't do it here<<.

On the bright side, if you happen to get killed by someone of no importance, from what I've seen, justice is swift and quite certain here.

[RDN]

.... Ordinary people must realise that corruption is destroying their country...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You want to know what ordinary people think? From the Bangkok Post, Wednesday 10 November 2004: Click here!

If the link doesn't work, here's a copy:

GOVERNMENT'S FIVE-DAY FAIR / OPEN CABINET MEETING

Observers dote on PM as discussion goes over their heads

AMPA SANTIMATANEDOL

Impact Arena Muang Thong Thani was already crowded at the crack of dawn yesterday, as people wanted to be the first to get a pass to attend a special cabinet meeting where seats were limited at 300.

Many ''observers'' were impressed with Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, saying he seemed to know everything about everything.

First they listened attentively. But when the meeting turned to subjects remote from their daily life such as SPV (special-purpose vehicle) and when English-language terms were used quite often by the prime minister and his ministers, their interest faded.

Boonyeun Sarikkaputi, 77, dozed off. When woken up by a reporter, she said the meeting had been very useful.

''The prime minister knows all. He is the best. He understands everything. He uses English words a lot but that's okay. I know he studied abroad. Sometimes I did not know what they were talking about but that is fine too,'' Mrs Boonyeun said.

Many people left the meeting room once they had seen enough of Mr Thaksin. ''I think they just wanted to experience the atmosphere. They were not interested in the substance [of the meeting],'' Mrs Boonyeun said.

Wanich Parakij, 40, who is blind, said he felt Mr Thaksin ran the show completely.

''At the end, it is the prime minister who makes all the decisions. What is decided here should not be called cabinet resolutions. I expected to hear a lot of arguments but that did not happen,'' Mr Wanich said.

He said the cabinet should open for the public to attend its meeting again and allow them to ask questions too.

Sopa Chaibut, 79, said she left home in Bang Na at 4am, took a taxi alone to Impact and was the first in line but allowed Somboon Choonprasert, who arrived second, to receive the first pass.

''He wanted to make history so I let him,'' Mrs Sopa said.

Mr Somboon, 65, said the meeting was ''excellent'' and the prime minister was ''exceptional''.

''The prime minister listens to others. He thinks fast. He knows everything. I learned a lot. I am lucky to be here,'' Mr Somboon said.

Wichit Hatpisai, a village headman from Kalasin, said authorities back home had arranged for him to come to Bangkok in a bus with 51 other people. All of them were given 200 baht each, he said.

Rian Boonmee, 61, from Si Sa Ket, said she was glad she got to see the prime minister but admitted she did not pay attention to what he said.

''He spoke of things not related to my farm work, so I didn't listen.''

By the time the cabinet meeting ended, fewer than 30 of the 300 people were still in the room.

The meeting was held as part of the fair ''From Past to Present: From Grassroots to Taproots'' held by the government since Nov 6 and which ends today.

The fair has so far drawn about 500,000 people. The cost of organising the event has been estimated at 24 million baht.

Activities included registration of people wanting to buy low-cost houses, distribution of eyeglasses, and registration of people for the one-million-cows project.

[Phil Conners]

They eat bull by the spoonfull, but how different is that from USA? Junior was just re-elected wasn't he ....

[Pattayaguy1999]

They eat bull by the spoonfull, but how different is that from USA? Junior was just re-elected wasn't he ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I fail to see what a democracy electing it's leader has to do with a court letting a double muder suspect out on bail. Many people may not be happy about George W. being reelected, but Americans vote for their leader, not the citizens from other countries. I may not be happy with the direction Putin is taking Russia, but that is for the Russians to sort out, not me. That is how democracy works madsere. At least make a valid analogy.

[toastwars]

.... Ordinary people must realise that corruption is destroying their country...

You want to know what ordinary people think? From the Bangkok Post, Wednesday 10 November 2004: Click here!

If the link doesn't work, here's a copy:

GOVERNMENT'S FIVE-DAY FAIR / OPEN CABINET MEETING

Observers dote on PM as discussion goes over their heads

Living in Muang tuang i was blessed with a ringside seat to this circus, I know that everyone was bribed to come, what I was wondering was whether like the Bangkok post do thai languge newspapers carry corruption stories in one out of every two articals?

[Ice Treasure]

I just think it's unfair all the farangs are into Thai-bashing. I want to put forward a Thai authorities' perspective.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew it wouldn't take long to find someone to give me an opportunity.

You are all so enraged at how the Thai gets bail, but that Aussie bad driver was set to be hung drawn and quartered, and Thaivisa spent valuable bandwidth supporting the immigration department who are so maligned here.

Balance you nongs, balance.

I think it's good for Thailand that 98% of the foreigners (fa Lung) are represented by the brain-dead and it bodes well for the Kingdoms development that there will be no fighting over employment postions requiring any sort of intelligence, since there are only 3 on any 100 faLung able to get it together to hold down a job.

Thanks guys. Sometimes I think it's me. But it isn't. I was right all along.

[nogutsnoapplepie]

Email this story to:

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[email protected]

[email protected]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Email again.

[eljeque]

Daily Mirror

[email protected]

[thaigene2]

A very long thread now..but for good reason. EasyMoney's story of his first hand account of a run-in with this cop in past sounds credible and extremely frightening. Golf's view of Thai society is sad and sobering (well okay I'll sober up for a minute).

Since the judge's decision to grant bail can't be criticised, it would be great to read EasyMoney's account of this sh@t's past escapades in the Bangkok Post..front f@%$ing page. The problem is the Thai-language papers probably wouldn't run it. And anyway, according to Golf, Thais just don't care anyway. Couple that with his view that the establishment doesn't care what the rest of the working-class thinks and you have your answer. Gotta give your head a shake sometimes about LOL. But I think I'm getting whiplash.

[dezeure]

well well well.... we all know that Kanchanaburi is the most corrupt of all places. All the low budget tourists staying there... probably alot with expired visas, just proves that with money everything goes. ...and bail = money.

"...he had never committed a crime before..." No &lt;deleted&gt;, he's a police officer and should be giving the example!!! He should be punished harder than others for commiting crimes like these as they are to give the example.

and might I say... pretty cheap bail... that's only 500,000 Baht for killing a person...

Never ceases to amaze me... (not always in a good way)

Amazing Thailand...The land of Smiles and Guns

[mrchips377]

Maybe this is all part of Toxin's "Welcome western tourists" policy

If they don't get you because of problems with visa, drugs, not carrying your passport, urine tests, then they shoot you because of "losing face"

Maybe the government can promote him and send him to southern thailand to help out with the other problems they got.

Maybe i'm cynical, but let's see what happens with this guy !

[Johpa]

I'll second these thoughts Stroll. It's great pity when extra-judicial killings become "the norm" in a society, but it can only be that society's awareness of the malaise and willingness to reform that is ever going to change anything.

My sense is that Thai society was very aware of the malaise of extra-judicial killings that resulted in the deaths of over 2,000 people during Taksin's war on drugs last year and scarely a peep was heard. On the contrary, most Thais I talked to last summer were quite happy with the actions. There is currently no willingness nor even interest in reforms.

Besides, this stuff has been going on for decades. In their 1981 book Politcal Conflict in Thailand Chaianan and Morell documented the extrajudical killings of the participants of the farmers reform movements up north.

Later in the 1980s, the Shinawat family out in Sankampeng got away with the murder of a local school principle who complained about the Shinawat family's encroachment onto public forest lands.

And those of us who actually live out there in the vast chanabot (AKA baan nok) have all witnessed events where murders take place and the guilty walk free. Should these two Brit tourists who made the naive mistake of drinking late at night with Thais be treated or mourned differently than say my dear freind and best man (phuan jao bao)at my wedding who was mudered on the way home from a local market and whose murderer, well known to one and all, spent only two nights in prison?

But hey, as a previous poster noted, most of you are in Thailand for cheap beer and affordable sexual adventures, or jobs where the pay is decent and the cost of living is very low, and few if any of you will depart the Kingdom over this minor, by Thai standards, travesty of justice.

Chaiyo!

[Artisan]

The perverse case of Duangchalerm has just been mentioned. This particular issue was marked by immorality and injustice and deviated entirely from what is considered right or proper. But, this is Thailand where immorality and injustice are the norms.

And what about Somchai Khunpleum, the Political Godfather of Chonburi and the mayor of the municipality of Saen Suk? Kamnan Poh, as he is known, was sentenced recently to 25 years imprisonment for being the lead conspirator in the murder of his counterpart in Rayong. He is now "at large" and still holds this position in the community........and who could be blamed for thinking that two of his sons are in the Thai Government, one who just happens to be the Minister for Sports and Tourism, had a hand in his release?

My Thai niece, who is 25 years old, and her Thai/Chinese boyfriend were accused of stashing "substances" and a gun in the false ceiling of the boyfriend's apartment. Someone wanted him out of the way badly and tipped off the boys in brown. The boy friend's apartment was raided and she was found guilty by association even though she had no knowledge of what was in the ceiling. The police case was based on "she must have known" as she was his girlfriend!! Anyway, they were both sentenced to 12 years in jail. She has been jailed for 2 years now but, being a "Chinese snakehead", the boyfriend was bought out by his family and other sponsors.

Have a read of the story about Kamnan Poh in the Australian Herald Sun.

Minister's Father Sentenced to 25 Years

[kat]

Sick.

[eljeque]

And those of us who actually live out there in the vast chanabot (AKA baan nok) have all witnessed events where murders take place and the guilty walk free. Should these two Brit tourists who made the naive mistake of drinking late at night with Thais be treated or mourned differently than say my dear freind and best man (phuan jao bao)at my wedding who was mudered on the way home from a local market and whose murderer, well known to one and all, spent only two nights in prison?

I am very sorry for the loss of your friend, and I know that it is a daily occurence in Thailand. If you know of the murderer, why don't you have someone from outside of the province come into the village and one night balance the scales? It will not bring your friend back, but I am sure that this man has killed others as well, and will kill again.

[rstrauss]

Maybe this is all part of Toxin's "Welcome western tourists" policy

If they don't get you because of problems with visa, drugs, not carrying your passport, urine tests, then they shoot you because of "losing face"

Maybe the government can promote him and send him to southern thailand to help out with the other problems they got.

Maybe i'm cynical, but let's see what happens with this guy !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you just found a new tourist niche: Thailand for 'weary of life' and 'suicidal'.

Cheaper and legal.

[NedKelly]

Sorry to disappoint you rsstrauss.......it would more likely be a domestic tourism program.......Hunting Tourists - Thai Safari's !! beats killing an endangered species !! Just round em up from the bars and let em go at Khao Yai....then the chase is on !!