Regent Apartments...they Have Stripped Everything

[Livinginexile]

I live in Trendy condos across the soi from Regent, for the last 3 weeks the crane has been working everynight.

They have been stripping everything that is not bolted down.

Dozens of trucks have been loaded up each night with metal door frames, all scafolding on site, metal beams by the truck load, even PVC piping has been carted away.

ALL IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT!! away from preying eyes. They start about midnight and finish about 5am.

Looks like everything of value has been taken off site.

[egg6447]

did you report this to anyone other than tv.?????

[bingobongo]

so much for the "surge in condo prices", more like surge in inflation

maybe one or a combination of the following happened:

1) som chai the builder went bust

2) som chai the builder took deposits for himself and is now on holiday and did not pay the bank and now is losing the building

3) units were not selling

4) commodity prices are surging so value of copper, aluminum, concrete, commodities,etc was worth more in cash then the assumed debt accumulated via an empty concrete tower

5) or common law thieves who just had sticky fingers

Edited July 27, 2008 by bingobongo

[Livinginexile]

I took these photos at night time so they are not very clear.

One photo u can see one of the trucks being loaded by the crane.

Other ones in the early morning shows the crane in action.

This started this work about 2 weeks ago, not every night but they worked non stop loading trucks.

[farang555]

is somchai the builder same same as bob the builder

[onnut]

I think you should keep out of it. its not your money thats being stripped down and taken.

if its been happening every night for two weeks than I should think it is the owner who is doing it. probably gone bust.

another empty shell in Bangkok, and my wife wanted me to put money down for a house that was not yet built in some Moo Baan in Bangkok. ha ha never would I buy something thats not there yet.

[Rimmer]

Sounds like the sum of the parts is greater than the entire structure when no one is buying.

I think the technical term is 'Asset stripping'

[bendix]

Plenty of discussions on this elsewhere in the forum, if you could be bothered to look. Bottom line is that original develop Grande Asset has been bought out by Lehmann Brothers who are looking at their activities. Secondly, the original contractor KTech has gone broke. I would imagine that the nighttime activities might be related to that.

[cclub75]

Plenty of discussions on this elsewhere in the forum, if you could be bothered to look. Bottom line is that original develop Grande Asset has been bought out by Lehmann Brothers who are looking at their activities. Secondly, the original contractor KTech has gone broke. I would imagine that the nighttime activities might be related to that.

No problem. They still have time to complete the project.

On their website, we can read : "Construction of The Regent Bangkok is scheduled to be completed by early 2009."

http://www.grandeasset.com/projects/hotels/theregent.html

I'm thinking... while Lehmann Brothers "is looking at Grande Asset activities", I think Lehmann Brothers will soon look at their... own activities.

http://tinyurl.com/569q5n

The market is healthy.

Edited July 28, 2008 by cclub75

[bingobongo]

Lehman is not going to do anything with any property in LOS......Lehman has bigger concerns than some empty shell in LOS, consider it another property/building gone bust........

Lehman's borrowing costs rise - report

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...0080728?rpc=44

UPDATE 1-Merrill says Lehman faces Q3 loss, $2.5 bln writeoff

Lehman, the smallest of the major Wall Street investment banks, is looking at selling 20 percent of about $65 billion of its exposure to real-estate-related assets in the third quarter, he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20080728?rpc=44

Edited July 28, 2008 by bingobongo

[cclub75]

Lehman, the smallest of the major Wall Street investment banks, is looking at selling 20 percent of about $65 billion of its exposure to real-estate-related assets in the third quarter, he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20080728?rpc=44

Exactly. That's my point.

To imagine that Lehmans could be the savior of some thai piece of real estate, in the current environment, is a rather strange (and bold) idea.

And as you said, the Merril's circus from last night (5,7 billions writedown, plus a fire sale to Temasek, with massive dilution) is just another proof that... the market is very, I mean very... healthy.

But anyway, we all know that in Thailand everything is different, right ?

We are not coupled with the global economy here, no, no, but rather with Jupiter's economy (or the moon ?)... therefore the world can fall around us... our condo market in Bangkok will stay sound, healthy and on an infinite upward trend.

[quiksilva]

This was discussed here last week.

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board. But as you rightly point out its no secret that Grande Asset has problems and Lehmans have their own concerns. Should they look to get out of their exposure to Thai real estate it will affect other developers too, maybe even some high profile names, but most developers are financed locally, so this will not directly affect the majority of developers.

The Thai banking system has very limited exposure to the western sub prime mortgage debacle, but that does not mean that some ripples of that crash will not reach these shores, of course they will, but it will not be anything like as bad as it is in say, the UK or USA.

That does not mean that Thailand is not without its problems though. The fact that many Thai developers are using the cost push argument to support rising prices, supports the case that the rising market is no longer being fueled by strong demand, which in itself signifies weakness. This, I think, will mean continued shrinkages in transaction volumes but may not result in a direct drop in values, prices of new builds and developers margins perhaps, but not values.

The one argument which does have merit and supports values (IMHO) is that there is a genuine shortage of prime development sites, in the CBD, with free and clear title.

Edited July 29, 2008 by quiksilva

[steveromagnino]

The one argument which does have merit and supports values (IMHO) is that there is a genuine shortage of prime development sites, in the CBD, with free and clear title.

Totally agree.

Would say there is always demand for mass housing and increasingly important is proximity to skytrain - guys like Ideo and LPN will be fine.

At the other end, there is almost no supply for genuine high end; just talking about a number of specific families last night THe Park, Sukhothai and that's about it - the others are all not quite there. Add to that shortage of decent sites - I mean can you really believe that 185 is NOT going to sell well or that a free hold site on Langsuan overlooking Lumpini is not going to be able to command a decent price? That is a major stretch.

In the middle though there could be some carnage. Especially for condos miles down sois or away from public transport. Some projects are still not sold out even now after 3 years of marketing. Trendy and Regents are examples of what can happen even in a convienient if somewhat slummy location; imagine how many developments buried in the sub sois there are that are similar prices but so much harder to get to. Those are the ones who will struggle to rent, and as a result will struggle to resell to the investor market - that they will be less attractive to owner occupiers is a given.

The prime streets are still plowing along; look at the resales going through in say Soi Sala Daeng compared to when the Royal and the Legend were released. Or the Park. These are actual sales because the developments are highly sought after.

Whether that can occur for the middle upper end stuff where now built highlights all the flaws remains to be seen.

[quiksilva]

Steve the only issue I have with 185 is the pricing, yes its genuinely ultra high end and yes I think it will find a market overseas and to a certain extent amongst some sectors of the expat community here, thats the 49% taken care of (perhaps) but its the remaining 51% which will be harder to deal with.

The Thai market above THB 150,000 per square meter is still razor thin and foreign buyers distrust long leaseholds and company structures, which I think is understandable.

So with margins becoming so thin (I hear stories of 10% in some projects), it becomes hard to see the profit in a project like 185, unless they have found a way to crack that 51% nut, in that price bracket, that I am not yet aware of.

edit: Perhaps it comes back to the availability of prime sites, it could, but do the locals believe that yet? I'm not so sure.

Edited July 29, 2008 by quiksilva

[cuica]

Hey quiksilva,

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board. But as you rightly point out its no secret that Grande Asset has problems and Lehmans have their own concerns. Should they look to get out of their exposure to Thai real estate it will affect other developers too, maybe even some high profile names, but most developers are financed locally, so this will not directly affect the majority of developers.

Long time no talk. Let's refresh your memory here a bit with that infamous "bangkok condo is booming" thread.

cuica, this is a very interesting thread - there are definitly failings in the low to mid range condo market. It has been stated time and again, if you build a good product in the right location and at the right price people will just buy (the market has become quite transpoarent these days).

pkrv - what you said is true, and in the case of The Regent Bangkok, it is indeed located in a prime location (Sukhumvit Soi 13), marketed and sold as a high end condo. And in this case, people have bought off-plan and gotten hurt in these "booming" times. Let's hope their case is just one of delay, not failure to complete.

Lehman Bros are now in control of this asset. Why would it not complete? When have you ever met an investor of this cailbre who put money into a project without being assured of a healthy ROI? They are not interested in buying projects just to build a portfolio.

They would not have taken this asset on to their books if they were not certain that they could attain very healthy returns which they can only achieve if the project completes and units transfer.

And if you look two posts down that same thread you will see that you promised to buy me a beer if you were wrong. Can I have my beer now?

A year ago none of us had grasped how the US subprime fiasco would affect Thailand, but we are now seeing some effect with Regent Residences an indirect casualty. Will there be more I wonder?

[steveromagnino]

my own feeling is K-Tech is the big issue for Regent, rather than Lehman specifically.

Prior to this whole subprime Lehman were already fairly useless, so this isn't exactly anything new!

[Livinginexile]

The Regent sales office is still open for business too.

[bkkjames]

my own feeling is K-Tech is the big issue for Regent, rather than Lehman specifically.

Prior to this whole subprime Lehman were already fairly useless, so this isn't exactly anything new!

My feeling it was none-locked-in construction costs by the owner that killed it, KTECH probably wanted to raise em like everyone else, the owner balked, didn't pay KTECH and there is stands empty.

Or

KTECH had locked in costs on it and other projects around and couldn't deliver based on the rising material costs and went belly up.

[quiksilva]

Hey quiksilva,

----------------------------------------------

---------------------------Can I have my beer now?

A year ago none of us had grasped how the US subprime fiasco would affect Thailand, but we are now seeing some effect with Regent Residences an indirect casualty. Will there be more I wonder?

LOL YES you can most certainly have that beer! PM me and we'll sort it out if you like.

As Steve said this failed because of its own inherent problems, I can admit I gave Lehman's too much credit, given the time I don't think it was an unreasonable, to expect a firm like that, to do due diligence thoroughly and to have a good appreciation of their own capability to be able to solve the problems they encountered, whether they were inherited or not. They should of known what they were getting themselves into.

As for whether there'll be any more fallout from the crisis, I think there will, these American investment banks are in survival mode right now, and they want out of real estate.

So expect some to call in their loans shortly, which, if it happens, will present challenges for some developers, but whether these problems will be insurmountable for some, is anyone's guess, but I hope not, for the sake of buyers and staff.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A modern day version of the midnight flit.

[cuica]

Hey quiksilva,

----------------------------------------------

---------------------------Can I have my beer now?

A year ago none of us had grasped how the US subprime fiasco would affect Thailand, but we are now seeing some effect with Regent Residences an indirect casualty. Will there be more I wonder?

LOL YES you can most certainly have that beer! PM me and we'll sort it out if you like.

Hi quiksilva,

Thanks but I was just teasing! In any case it wouldn't be honorable of me to accept your beer since I didn't take up your wager (i.e. buy you a beer in case I was wrong). We'll have to find something to bet on next time!

-- cuica

[roamer]

"The Thai banking system has very limited exposure to the western sub prime mortgage debacle, but that does not mean that some ripples of that crash will not reach these shores, of course they will, but it will not be anything like as bad as it is in say, the UK or USA."

How many times have we heard this about various banking systems only to find out it was all b*ll""ks and they all bought the same dummy stuff ?

How can you come out with that crap ? You on all the major Thai bank boards ?

Aside from that, you tell me the difference between buying bad foreign sub prime, or creating your own ? I've seen some of the folk Thai banks have lent to, I wouldn't have lent them 100B with any expectation of getting it back.

[mgjackson69]

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board.

It is good to have an insider in our midst...too bad he cannot share with us.

[mgjackson69]

I think you should keep out of it. its not your money thats being stripped down and taken.

if its been happening every night for two weeks than I should think it is the owner who is doing it. probably gone bust.

another empty shell in Bangkok, and my wife wanted me to put money down for a house that was not yet built in some Moo Baan in Bangkok. ha ha never would I buy something thats not there yet.

Yep....it is not your story, do not worry about it.

Do any of us really think that something so nefarious is happening here? That because this is happening <scary voice on> at night <scary voice off> that it must be below board? That because it is happening <scary voice on> at night <scary voice off> that some creditor would not know what is going on there?

There could be any number of legitimate reasons why this work is being done <scary voice on> at night <scary voice off>. The fact is that we do not know. Well, maybe quicksilva knows, but cannot share.

[steveromagnino]

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board.

It is good to have an insider in our midst...too bad he cannot share with us.

I know who Quiksilva is and I know that YES he most definitely would potentially have the ability to know things that others of us do not; total guess as he has never told me, but would not surprise me if he has been approached to advise or help dispose of the Lehman asset.

So yes, he has more information that the rest of us, and I for one would appreciate hearing at least some of it.

[rott]

Quiksilva, post 19, ''They should of known''.

I see this on tv many times but never expected it from you, a prominent local businessman, my illusions are shattered. I need the beer that you saved earlier in the thread.

[pkrv]

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board.

It is good to have an insider in our midst...too bad he cannot share with us.

I know who Quiksilva is and I know that YES he most definitely would potentially have the ability to know things that others of us do not; total guess as he has never told me, but would not surprise me if he has been approached to advise or help dispose of the Lehman asset.

So yes, he has more information that the rest of us, and I for one would appreciate hearing at least some of it.

I too have directly engaged Lehmans, but on a 'slightly' different front. The only way I can decribe them is 'they are very creative' especially when it comes to their obligations (which come off of the bottom line).

If Quiksilva is involved then he will no longer be able to discuss the subject - though that should not detract from the fact that IMO he is a deeply appreciated member of this forum.

[bkkjames]

In fact I have been aware of the matter for some time now but can not disclose exactly what I know on a public board.

It is good to have an insider in our midst...too bad he cannot share with us.

I know who Quiksilva is and I know that YES he most definitely would potentially have the ability to know things that others of us do not; total guess as he has never told me, but would not surprise me if he has been approached to advise or help dispose of the Lehman asset.

So yes, he has more information that the rest of us, and I for one would appreciate hearing at least some of it.

I too have directly engaged Lehmans, but on a 'slightly' different front. The only way I can decribe them is 'they are very creative' especially when it comes to their obligations (which come off of the bottom line).

If Quiksilva is involved then he will no longer be able to discuss the subject - though that should not detract from the fact that IMO he is a deeply appreciated member of this forum.

Some light at the end of a dark tunnel http://www.set.or.th/set/newsdetails.do;js...amp;language=en

Sorry for the long link, the report is even longer but dig through to see there may be hope yet for this development.

[zorro1]

The one argument which does have merit and supports values (IMHO) is that there is a genuine shortage of prime development sites, in the CBD, with free and clear title.

Totally agree.

Would say there is always demand for mass housing and increasingly important is proximity to skytrain - guys like Ideo and LPN will be fine.

At the other end, there is almost no supply for genuine high end; just talking about a number of specific families last night THe Park, Sukhothai and that's about it - the others are all not quite there. Add to that shortage of decent sites - I mean can you really believe that 185 is NOT going to sell well or that a free hold site on Langsuan overlooking Lumpini is not going to be able to command a decent price? That is a major stretch.

In the middle though there could be some carnage. Especially for condos miles down sois or away from public transport. Some projects are still not sold out even now after 3 years of marketing. Trendy and Regents are examples of what can happen even in a convienient if somewhat slummy location; imagine how many developments buried in the sub sois there are that are similar prices but so much harder to get to. Those are the ones who will struggle to rent, and as a result will struggle to resell to the investor market - that they will be less attractive to owner occupiers is a given.

The prime streets are still plowing along; look at the resales going through in say Soi Sala Daeng compared to when the Royal and the Legend were released. Or the Park. These are actual sales because the developments are highly sought after.

Whether that can occur for the middle upper end stuff where now built highlights all the flaws remains to be seen.

Its annoying that the Regent has stalled. Its a slummy location with excellent potential with the Trendy complete and the Sofitel near completion and 500mill bht upgrade at the Ambassador hotel. When and if the Regent is completed the whole of the soi will be totally transformed and all at the Nana Bts door step

[quiksilva]

Quiksilva, post 19, ''They should of known''.

I see this on tv many times but never expected it from you, a prominent local businessman, my illusions are shattered. I need the beer that you saved earlier in the thread.

I didn't save that beer for an English teacher, I saved it for someone who added value to the discussion.

Edited August 20, 2008 by quiksilva