Artisi Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) A good decision but it's very unlikely any goal time will come from it and the "fine" is pin momey to them however, the loss of face is more important to people of this nature and can never be re-gained - plus the look on Toxins' face was priceless - you could see it going thru' his mind "oh sh1t - I might be next" Edited July 31, 2008 by Artisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It is looking like Thaksin's direct role in politics in the immediate future is going to be ended. Whether he decides to continue playing a behind the scenes role remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen if the PPP will now this afternoon announce a speeding up of constitutional change to attempt to derail the other cases and thereby spare their (real) leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 They didn,t waste no time at the BEEB / BBC puting it on the front page :- BBC News, Page last updated at 04:34 GMT, Thursday, 31 July 2008 05:34 UK Ex-Thai PM's wife guilty of fraud Pojaman Shinawatra was freed on bail after the verdict was announced The wife of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has been convicted of tax fraud by a court in Bangkok. Pojaman Shinawatra was sentenced to three years in prison, in the first of a series of cases against the family. She, her brother Bannapot Damapong and her secretary were charged with trying to avoid paying 546m baht ($16.3m) in tax when transferring shares. The trio were freed on bail of 5m baht ($149,000) each pending an appeal, Thai court officials said. Mrs Thaksin's brother was sentenced to three years in jail, while her secretary was handed a two-year sentence. Politically motivated A judge read out the verdicts in a televised ruling, saying that Mrs Thaksin "was meant to be a good role model as the wife of the prime minister". Mrs Thaksin remained emotionless. One of her three children present in court shook her head in dismay at the verdict. Thaksin Shinawatra has always denied any wrongdoing by his family in the tax case and several other lawsuits filed against them. The military ousted him in September 2006, accusing him of corruption and abuse of power. Mr Thaksin has maintained that the charges are politically motivated. His party, Thai Rak Thai, was outlawed following the coup, and Mr Thaksin was banned from politics for five years. The telecoms billionaire and owner of English football club Manchester City returned to Thailand in February after 18 months abroad, living mostly in the UK. Analysts say that although widely expected, the guilty verdict will deal a blow to Mr Thaksin's ambition to clear his name and return to political life. Ref url :- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7534374.stm The photo wasn,t a recent one in relation to the court appearance, nor the expression true to how she was afterwards, just for the record. marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang prince Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 3 years i n jail??A big joke!! They were just seen on national TV being assisted to their private cars!!! And if they had been acquitted....? You would have been bitching even louder. There are some people who are so cynical who post on TV that I'm surprised they haven't eaten their young yet. This is a major loss of face to Thaksin and his family. They now have a convicted felon in the family...not something that any of them will be proud about. Will she serve any prison time? Let's wait and see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) A good decision but it's very unlikely any goal time will come from it and the "fine" is pin momey to them however, the loss of face is more important to people of this nature and can never be re-gained - plus the look on Toxins' face was priceless - you could see it going thru' his mind "oh sh1t - I might be next" The sentence while important, in relation to the overwhelming consequences in terms of power and position they once held over Thailands constitutions ect. this result is massive. While Thaksin himself wasn,t in dock being sentenced, let us not forget his role in facilitating what happened while he was the CEO /Premier of the country, and the implications this has on him personally. marshbags Edited July 31, 2008 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asd Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hi, sriracha john The Court sentenced Mrs. Pojaman, Bannaphot to a total of three years in jail and two years for Kanchana Honghern by guilty of intentionally avoiding tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. However, they are released on a five-million-baht bail per person. Appearing from left to right (front row) : Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong ,Mrs. Pojaman Shinawatra and personal secretary of Pojaman Shinawatra Mrs. Kanchana Honghern Thaksin Shinawatra's family at The Criminal Court on Thursday. The court reprimanded Pojaman in particular, saying that with her high economic, social and political status - especially her status as wife of the then county leader - she should have acted as good example to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Their changing mood for their day in court... Arriving: Departing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgjackson69 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thaksin's family will take their planned trip to Bejing and will not return. The Thai government will not institute proceeding to bring them back. Bonds will be forfeited, no big thing for Thaksin. Rest assured that for every baht of Thaksin's money that is in Thailand and subject to seizure, he has taken 1000 baht outside and it is untouchable. I always thought and still think that Thaksin is a pretty smart guy. But he let his arrogance and greed overcome his common sense. When they did the sale of ShinCorp to Temesek, Thaksin could have taken this approach: "According to current Thai tax law I do not have to pay any tax on gains from this sale. However, in keeping with my responsibilities as a Thai citizen and in appreciation of the success that I have enjoyed, I will voluntarily pay 10% of these profits in taxes to the Thai government." This would have further elevated his status with the majority of the rural Thai people, and he would never have missed the 10%. He likely would still be PM as well. Note that I am not offering an opinion as to whether that would be good or bad. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hi, sriracha john HELLO!!! asd.. long time, no see... great to have you back with some terrific shots... don't be a stranger so long to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Hi, sriracha john The Court sentenced Mrs. Pojaman, Bannaphot to a total of three years in jail and two years for Kanchana Honghern by guilty of intentionally avoiding tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. However, they are released on a five-million-baht bail per person. Appearing from left to right (front row) : Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong ,Mrs. Pojaman Shinawatra and personal secretary of Pojaman Shinawatra Mrs. Kanchana Honghern Thaksin Shinawatra's family at The Criminal Court on Thursday. there you are an identical expression, but i recon it,s a far more reaching one as against just sad The court reprimanded Pojaman in particular, saying that with her high economic, social and political status - especially her status as wife of the then county leader - she should have acted as good example to society. The photo,s are stills of the actual report on Channel 7, by the look of it, they,re now being shown on all the t.v. news outlets at present so just switch the Thai programmes on to get an extended showing of his reactions, step by step. It,s still hard to comperhend and imagine what unfolded when and after the verdict was read out. But it did and your not dreaming. marshbags Edited July 31, 2008 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innovator Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think she will be staying at the famous Bangkok Hilton any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibeymai Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 3 years i n jail??A big joke!! They were just seen on national TV being assisted to their private cars!!! And if they had been acquitted....? You would have been bitching even louder. There are some people who are so cynical who post on TV that I'm surprised they haven't eaten their young yet. This is a major loss of face to Thaksin and his family. They now have a convicted felon in the family...not something that any of them will be proud about. Will she serve any prison time? Let's wait and see.... With further court proceedings pending against all but one of the Shinawatra family and the possibility of convictions making all but one of the family felons the black sheep of the family might be the one not in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thread started to separate different cases posted in thread:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...ts-t137657.html Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants ============================================================================= BREAKING NEWS Potjaman Shinawatra Guilty 10.47am : The Criminal Court on Thursday found Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding a tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. Also found guilty in the historic trial are Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong and her personal secretary Kanchana Honghern. The court sentenced Pojaman and Bannaphot each to 3 years in jail. - The Nation 546 million tax on shares worth 738 million ? That's a 74% tax rate. I'd probably try to avoid it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 546 million tax on shares worth 738 million ?That's a 74% tax rate. I'd probably try to avoid it too. Interest and penalties accumulated since 1997? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Don,t know if it,s a coincidence, but our cable has just gone off and there is no signal now ?????? It was going and continuing re the Thaksin scenario then nothing, my wifes well pissed off with it. marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Don,t know if it,s a coincidence, but our cable has just gone off and there is no signal now ??????It was going and continuing re the Thaksin scenario then nothing, my wifes well pissed off with it. marshbags I can still hear the TV in the kitchen showing UBC, but admittedly they've no longer got the news on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 At least! Someone had the guts to set the signal! It's not about them going to jail, or the low sentence, low bail... Thai Law probably doesn't provide any higher penalties, as the "law" has always been bent towards the benefits of the "ruling class".... They made enough of a mess and still believed to get away with it! I hope someone has a good look into how it came to all these concessions feeding his empire so well... Things will change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I am shocked. What is Thailand coming to, so that fraud and corruption is actually prosecuted? What next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Can't the secretary just say she was doing what she was told to do? ....unless she lied to authorities after the fact. There's no way a Shinawatre will do a day in any sort of prison. They could appeal it and slow the process for 100 years. They haven't yet tried the 'too senile and infirm to show up' defense (as so many despots do) but that's just another card they can play later on. As for their impounded cash and valuables in Thailand, it wouldn't surprise me if they were clandestinely released and spirited out of the country - as has happened for them several times in the past few years. It would be interesting to know what was in the dozens of large suitcases taken out by Pojaman and her ilk - just before and just after the coup. Imagine if an airport authority had demanded to examine the contents of those suitcases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shah Jahan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Can someone familiar with the Thai legal processes please describe the process that actually has to happen for her to spend time in Jail? I read something about a 30 day appeal? then after that 30 days what happens? is there then another 2 year appeal? Does it really have to go to the supreme court for actually jail to happen? What is the process for that to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHouston Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This was a criminal case, was it not? Will there be a subsequent civil case to recover lost money for the difference between fair market value and what was actually paid for the property? If so, who brings this case, the Attorney General, the Asset Examination Committee (now defunct), or some other organ of government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losangels Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Imagine if an airport authority had demanded to examine the contents of those suitcases. Unlikely to happen cuz travelling on diplomatic passports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I am shocked. What is Thailand coming to, so that fraud and corruption is actually prosecuted? What next? This is not what I love about Thailand... If I wanted justice, honesty, and being convicted of crimes of which I am gulity, I would stay in my own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1012 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Why did they evade tax? 738 mill, 545 mill. The figures are huge but the tax taken is nearly 74%. Assuming that the business deal was legal, would not ANY sane person be rather reluctant to pay 73.9% of the value (profits?) of a perfectly legal business deal > I would, would any of you wonderful honest people out there gladly pay 74% of your earnings(profits) as tax? If the tax rate had been 25 or 30% then perhaps this situation would not have arisen. I do not like theft, but I consider 74% tax as a theft by government, 30% would be acceptable. Please lets have some comment on this, rather than the people who evade such tax rates. I europe everyone who can evades or avoids tax, the wealthy far more than the poor, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Monaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) The tax, had the deal above the board on all levels, wouldn't be 74%. The reporting is a little shallow, leading people to think it is... Edited July 31, 2008 by TAWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Why did they evade tax?738 mill, 545 mill. The figures are huge but the tax taken is nearly 74%. Assuming that the business deal was legal, would not ANY sane person be rather reluctant to pay 73.9% of the value (profits?) of a perfectly legal business deal > I would, would any of you wonderful honest people out there gladly pay 74% of your earnings(profits) as tax? If the tax rate had been 25 or 30% then perhaps this situation would not have arisen. I do not like theft, but I consider 74% tax as a theft by government, 30% would be acceptable. Please lets have some comment on this, rather than the people who evade such tax rates. I europe everyone who can evades or avoids tax, the wealthy far more than the poor, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Monaco. This is a court case and so is about the law. If you break it the court will find you guilty. If you want to dodge tax you should be willing to do the time if/when caught. As to what the tax rate is that is up to governments to set and if it is unpopular no doubt people will voice their opinions through the democratic framework and the government can change it. It is not up to some individual to decide they will just ignore laws because they dont like them although of course many of the wealthy may well do so. That still only leaves them as criminals and yes the white collar and the wealthy who breach laws are still only criminals, and legally set tax rates are not government theft. However, those avoiding tax are pretty much thieves themselves as they steal from the country and the people. Luckily for us the law is on the side of this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankrikke Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 boggles me...even if you have to pay 80% on 700 mil in taxes... 200 mil is sick money. I mean, u can buy almost any normal company in thailand with that money, u can open 50 franchise of mcdonalds ... you can shop at gucci for the next 30years.. can have 50 breitling watches etc etc etc plus they already had unlimited money.. just pay your huge taxes and enjoy being incredibly rich without hassle. Exactly. How many steaks can you eat, houses can you live in, cars you can drive... The Toksins could probably spend 10 thousand dollars a day the rest of their lifes. What motivates such people to avoid taxes and in effect steal from the very people (poor voters) they ostensibly want to help. Is this simply criminal greed or some pathological condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I'm beginning to wonder if the coup was actually more successful than thought. I mean sure, Thaksin effectively walked right back in via the PPP and the junta didn't do a great job whilst in power but would this, (And potentially further), conviction(s) have occurred under the previous constitution? I wonder if a few politicians are considering increasing funding to the prison system to improve conditions, just in case like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFKAFSinLOS Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Great day for Thailand and its people generally... I bet the maid is p****d off though. After being on the receiving end of gifts and perks of $500mio or so, going back to earning THB 196 a day will come as a bit of a shock... Even if she saves half of that every day she'll be 500,000 years old before she has that feel good factor again... BTW My take on the tax: Proceeds approx USD 2.2bio. Cost USD 748mio. Gain approx USD 1,452mio @ 37% = approx USD540mio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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