jbowman1993 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This is a very special day for the country, and a remarkable series of events in the past month or so, with more to come. Do you want to see the real result of the 2006 Coup? It is the return of the rule of law, and beginning of accountability to Thailand. It has most politicians running scared, and it a great thing for the country I live in and and love. While we all deplore the "coup" as an instrument, today's verdict, and the abject humiliation on the faces of those who were previously "above the law", vindicates the decision, to some small degree. The judicial branch is able to act in the best interests of the Thai people, without fear of reprisals or "payback", that they operated under before. The Rule of Law is returning. And the country and it's citizens will be better for it. Remember the words of the one we all respect - Without the rule of law, the country cannot survive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneque Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thaksin was scheduled to depart for China today in preparation of the Olympics. I wonder if that'll change. spoke to a former minister yesterday. His view is Thaksin has been granted leave for 30 days on the pre-arranged agreement that he won't come back. Lets see if this is true. You beat me too it. Thaksin and family depart for China ostensibly to watch the Olympics. They just forget to return. He didn't buy a rather expensive house in HK recently for nothing. Why did they bother to come back in the 1st place? 1) They could not find decent 'somtam' anywhere elese in the world! 2) They are above the rule of law .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahack Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 hey at least something is keeping the dollar high lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro01 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Why did they evade tax?738 mill, 545 mill. The figures are huge but the tax taken is nearly 74%. Assuming that the business deal was legal, would not ANY sane person be rather reluctant to pay 73.9% of the value (profits?) of a perfectly legal business deal > I would, would any of you wonderful honest people out there gladly pay 74% of your earnings(profits) as tax? If the tax rate had been 25 or 30% then perhaps this situation would not have arisen. I do not like theft, but I consider 74% tax as a theft by government, 30% would be acceptable. Please lets have some comment on this, rather than the people who evade such tax rates. I europe everyone who can evades or avoids tax, the wealthy far more than the poor, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Monaco. I believe the 738 million is the price paid for the shares, not their market value at the time. I think the 545 million is actually based on the market value that the shares were actually trading for at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Update: Pojaman's conviction not a Democrat victory but justice served: Abhisit BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday said the guilty verdict on the tax evasion case was the manifestation of justice and should not be construed as the victory of the opposition for bringing the wrongdoing to light. The three defendants, Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, Bhanapot Damapong and Kanchanapa Honghern, can avail themselves to the appellate review, Abhisit said. -- The Nation 2008-07-31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beacher Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 <br />3 years doesn't seem very long for the amount of money involved. Not that they'll do any time.<br /> They may as well have been sentenced to a gazillion years because you're right -- they'll never do even a day of that time. It seems everybody knows this, but I guess those working in the justice system have to go through the motions anyway. I wonder how much money was wasted with this exercise in futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFKAFSinLOS Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Why didn't he just put thru his election "expenses" and "donations", as deductibles on his tax claim. 15mio voters costing say THB 500 each.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Does anyone remember the details? The shares were given as a wedding gift, albeit two years after the wedding, and they stayed that way until someone found out that Bonaphot actually paid for them and deposited money in Pojamarn's account. I think he paid well below the market price. I believe it was a part of a plan to conceal their assets among friends, relatives, domestic staff and so on, and they got caught on a technicality - not paying taxes while moving shares around to hide their true ownership. The ownership issue in this case might come back to hunt them in other cases, too. But I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr999m Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 THANX 4 THIS NEWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selftaopath Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Will she/they be required to forfeit any funds? Or give a nice sum for a "get out of jail" card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Does anyone remember the details? The shares were given as a wedding gift, albeit two years after the wedding, and they stayed that way until someone found out that Bonaphot actually paid for them and deposited money in Pojamarn's account. I think he paid well below the market price. I believe it was a part of a plan to conceal their assets among friends, relatives, domestic staff and so on, and they got caught on a technicality - not paying taxes while moving shares around to hide their true ownership. The ownership issue in this case might come back to hunt them in other cases, too. But I might be wrong. Here's a bit of the convoluted background... The Nation / 2007-03-28... it should shed some light on all these misunderstandings about the tax rate.... Pojaman and Bhanapot each stand accused of two counts of criminal and tax violations relating to their 1997 share deals. The two counts comprise one for conspiracy on tax evasion and one for the conspiracy on perjury. Kanchanapa faces one count of conspiracy in the alleged tax dodge. According to the prosecution's writ, Pojaman issued an instruction on November 7, 1997 for her stockbroker to sell 4.5 million Shin Corp shares worth Bt738 million to Bhanapot. The company was then known as Shinawatra Computer and Communications. Pojaman's shares were held by her maid, Duangta Wongpakdee, who acted as nominee. Kanchanapa organised the transaction on Pojaman's behalf. Pojaman issued a cheque dated November 12 to pay for the shares on Bhanapot's behalf. And her stockbroker paid out Bt734 million on the same day to Duangta for the cost of shares minus brokerage fees and value added tax. Duangta's sales earnings were later deposited in Pojaman's bank account. Prosecutors contend that the transaction was staged on the stock market in order to help Bhanapot dodge his income tax obligations that should have amounted to Bt273 million. In 1997 Bhanapot filed an income tax return for Bt8.1 million after claiming exemption for his shares transaction done on the stock market. In regard to the charges of perjury, Pojaman and Bhanapot testified in the 2001 tax audit that they were entitled to tax exemption because the shares were given by Pojaman to her brother as a family gift. Pojaman claimed that she designated her shares as a gift for Bhanapot's first-born son and that she wanted to raise the social standing of her brother's family to match her own. Prosecutors contend that the transaction was not a gift but an outright payment for Bhanapot's services rendered to the Shinawatra family. They say the alleged perjury during the tax audit caused damage to the state amounting to Bt546 million computed from unpaid tax plus a Bt272 million fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I asked my wife if she had heard the news. She gave me her look. That's the look that asks "How stupid are you?" She then did ask me if I really believed that she was going to jail. She then said that NO way would that woman EVER go to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Is anybody here so naiv, to think they will ever see a jailwall fom the inside!!!??? Hello,,,,,,, this is Thailand, anybody noticed?! Edited July 31, 2008 by frankman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFKAFSinLOS Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Does anyone remember the details? The shares were given as a wedding gift, albeit two years after the wedding, and they stayed that way until someone found out that Bonaphot actually paid for them and deposited money in Pojamarn's account. I think he paid well below the market price. I believe it was a part of a plan to conceal their assets among friends, relatives, domestic staff and so on, and they got caught on a technicality - not paying taxes while moving shares around to hide their true ownership. The ownership issue in this case might come back to hunt them in other cases, too. But I might be wrong. My strongest memory of this was on the front page of the Bangkok Post, where they had pictures of various members of the Thai public and their comments on the 2.2bio share deal. There was an elderly woman on there from nakorn nowhere and she basically said: I don't understand all this stuff about shares, but I'm sure he's a nice man and wouldn't do anything wrong... It's a shame the courts didn't get it right first time on the "assets declaration" court case when he first became PM. Let's face it, either he declared his assets or he didn't. Somehow he scraped by with a small majority verdict of not guilty on a few technicalities... If they'd got that one right....who knows? Common sense tells you that no-one has a maid, chauffer gardener or whatever that you just give a few hundred million of assets to for nothing...not while you're still living or still have your marbles... I wonder if they will revisit the decisions on things like his son who was caught cheating and then not cheating at Ramkamhaeng, or the rules that changed and then changed back again coincidentally around the time his spawn wanted to get into Chula... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampal Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 maybe a private jail will be built for them, replete with servants and luxury fittings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 My Thai wife and I were watching CNN in Saudi this morning when it came on the news. My wife asked..."won't she just pay to stay out of jail?" I replied that some judges were going to get very wealthy out of this fiasco. She laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sangfroid Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thaksin's family will take their planned trip to Bejing and will not return.The Thai government will not institute proceeding to bring them back. Bonds will be forfeited, no big thing for Thaksin. Rest assured that for every baht of Thaksin's money that is in Thailand and subject to seizure, he has taken 1000 baht outside and it is untouchable. I always thought and still think that Thaksin is a pretty smart guy. But he let his arrogance and greed overcome his common sense. When they did the sale of ShinCorp to Temesek, Thaksin could have taken this approach: "According to current Thai tax law I do not have to pay any tax on gains from this sale. However, in keeping with my responsibilities as a Thai citizen and in appreciation of the success that I have enjoyed, I will voluntarily pay 10% of these profits in taxes to the Thai government." This would have further elevated his status with the majority of the rural Thai people, and he would never have missed the 10%. He likely would still be PM as well. Note that I am not offering an opinion as to whether that would be good or bad. Seems like a no-brainer to me. ABSOLUTELY!! He could have donated it to the nation in the King's name and made a legend of himself, instead, what he is came to the surface, a greedy man for whom too much money is not nearly enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Great news! If they do a day in jail, I will stop drinking for a month and for each additional day they spend in jail too. Wow, that's a bit risky. I think the body can only last a few days without water. Will you also stop eating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thaksin was scheduled to depart for China today in preparation of the Olympics. I wonder if that'll change. spoke to a former minister yesterday. His view is Thaksin has been granted leave for 30 days on the pre-arranged agreement that he won't come back. Lets see if this is true. Interesting information. Even if he doesnt come back he will still retain a lot of power through the PPP and will be able to influence events if he so chooses. hearsay. 546 Million in taxes on 738 million worth of stock? Are tax rates really that high here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 maybe a private jail will be built for them, replete with servants and luxury fittings they're building one in cambodia as we speak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 If they had not been so greedy as to try and HIDE the money with maids and secrataries and brothers and children, then they never would have been in the bad tax situation. They wanted big man T to have MORE power as PM to make them more money, but to do that they had to APPEAR to divest funds, how to do that and a) not lose the control of the funds get it back and not lose alot c) not let it be seen. They do NOT seem to have understood that these amounts are too large to stay hidden. and when you step on as many toes, or faces, as these people have, people start digging. Thaksin's biggest mistake may have been to stick it to Sondhi, because he was able to see the dragon up close, and after getting singed he KNEW FIRST HAND what kind of dragon was running the show, and put on his flame suit and waded into battle. He has done his best to point out to the world exactly that the emperor has no clothes, it is a facade, and he has succeded. The kids got off easy, so far, but there may be more coming. One rap sheet for MR. T AND KISS THAT FOOTBALL TEAM GOODBYE. He has left a trail of deceit and anger. And like a match dropped on a leaking gas tank trail, it is coming back to get him as he slows to turn and look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 When they did the sale of ShinCorp to Temesek, Thaksin could have taken this approach: "According to current Thai tax law I do not have to pay any tax on gains from this sale. However, in keeping with my responsibilities as a Thai citizen and in appreciation of the success that I have enjoyed, I will voluntarily pay 10% of these profits in taxes to the Thai government." ABSOLUTELY!! He could have donated it to the nation in the King's name and made a legend of himself... One little problem - legally the company wasn't his to begin with, and he had to deny any knowledge of the sale. If Thaksin came out and admitted having control over the company that benefited so much from his policies , he'd be in a much hotter pot of boiling water. His kids had to pay taxes when they started buying their own shares and moving them from one dummy account to another, and that's what they are charged with. Pretty much like the current case with Pojamarn who wrote a check to buy her own shares from her maid who deposited the profits in another Pojamarn's account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racefan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thaksin was scheduled to depart for China today in preparation of the Olympics. I wonder if that'll change. What event is he competing in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtCol Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Is there any truth in the rumour that Imelda Marcos has been retained as their adviser????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R123 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 T in China......he is for the "high jump"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 3 years doesn't seem very long for the amount of money involved. Not that they'll do any time. No it most certainly is not, seeing that about five or six years ago, there was a guy who got 40 years for stealing 80k from the Tollway booths, he was an employee. In that particular case I would have said that it was the judge who was the criminal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Have to say I disagree with those who think its a given that they will never see a day of jailtime. A few months ago I would have been of the same opinion but a few months ago the judiciary were not showing the surprising amount of resolve they are now doing in going after crooked politicians, there has to be a reason for that. I believe that the close relationship between the only real unchallenged power in the Kingom and the judiciary is starting to exert itself. It could just be that trying to judge future events by past history may not be applicable here. The best way to avoid doing jailtime might just be to leave and never return and maybe thats the message here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haltes Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Of course this is a criminal case and the defendants will appeal to the Appeals Court and then the Supreme Court which could take years. I also doubt very much that any of them will ever serve any time in the clink but the sentence breaks new ground nevertheless. If she has been convicted surely she should be held in custody pending an appeal. Only those who have not been convicted or who have not yet been sentenced are normally given bail..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I replied that some judges were going to get very wealthy out of this fiasco. Have yet to meet a poor judge. There are very few who weren't relatively wealthy to begin with and fewer still that didn't find a way to get wealthy along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 So, this woman, a former prime minster's wife, commits the largest fraud ever against the Thai government and the Thai people, equivalent to taking a day's food away from every man, woman and child in the north and north east, and there are still people outside the court cheering for her.MORONS. YES! Is this a sign that the Thai people may be starting to wake up? The current judges seem to know there stuff... But the average Khun Somchai or Khun Nid sadly does not seem to have a clue? Let's hope this is just the beginning of real development in Thailand... Mental and judicial development... This is a good day for all Thais... And justice everywhere... No justice, no peace... dseawarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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