Thai Funerals

[Dr. Burrito]

This weekend was the auspicious occasion of attending my first Thai funeral. The mother of my wife's boss's wife passed away from a long illness and they had a ceremony for her out in the sticks.

It was an interesting affair. There were about 3-4 farang there, my wife's boss being one, and we were all accorded a very VIP style treatment. Special seats inside the wat, particiapted in the ceremony, given free drinks, all good stuff. That said, it was all a bit strange too. I didn't know the lady, never met her, and here I am kneeling in front of a monk along with a hug line of people kneeling in front of monks, giving him a new robe (or something orange) and a flower, getting blessed, etc...

Loud, and I mean, really loud music was clanging away the better part of the time. Cymbals, drums, Thai xylophones all combined for a cacophany of sound not heard since the last U2 concert I saw.

They trotted her coffin around a smaller temple whilst setting off more cannon fire than they do atg the Burmese on the weekends, fire crackers and pistol fire. You had to control the urge to run for cover.

After that, there was a ceremony we didn't have to participate in that took place in a much smaller temple that had a long set of steps. The son of the deceased led a stream of the real VIP's and siblings up to her coffin. More new robes, monk speaking from behind a big fan.

More gunfire and cannons, machine guns this time too. Coins being tossed from the top of the temple to the ground were quickly scooped up by a crowd of youngsters and a few adults.

Then they pretty much wrapped it up with everyone going to the top and placing paper flowers in front of her casket whilst more cannon explosions and gunfire were going off all around.

I got in a conversation with a family member of the deceased since with all the gunfire I was hoping it was blanks. No, live rounds, was the answer. Creepy fear quickly followed by relief it wasn't me driving on the nearby highway.

All in all though, it was a very interesting experience. The madness of life itself mixed in with the grief of the family.

Any other experiences, information that more informed people have to offer perhaps?

[tutsiwarrior]

when the wife's grandmother died I missed the funeral but went to the 'wake' at the village wat afterwards...went with the wife to kneel by the coffin to light incense and pray. Meanwhile at floor level below us there were card games, drinking and general partying...food was prepared in the kitchen attached to the hall and later bedding provided by the monks was brought out for the kids and others that wanted to sleep. Went on for a few days before the cremation.

[RamdomChances]

You missed the first three days then. Thats just the cremation cerimony, it usually starts three days before that.

After that, there was a ceremony we didn't have to participate in that took place in a much smaller temple that had a long set of steps. The son of the deceased led a stream of the real VIP's and siblings up to her coffin. More new robes, monk speaking from behind a big fan.

Thats where they burn the body.

[lopburi3]

As RC says you were there for the last day cremation ceremony. Not all will be loud and with explosives, or even have music. The casket is taken and sometimes three trips around the furnace is made. Family will present gifts to monks and often toss coins for poor children of village to collect. There are usually steep steps on each side and a large stairway down in the front so people will walk from sides with paper flowers to place under casket and down the front steps (often getting a token gift from family as they return to seats).

This is the most important day to attend and most of town will likely be there. As RC says most are three day affairs and close family will try to be there each evening for a couple of hours and some will likely always be there. This is the one time police turn a blind eye and folks can openly gamble without fear of arrest so there is likely to be card games going all night.

Indeed it is a very unique and interesting experience.

[Rinrada]

Wifes sister died about 3-4 months ago and although we missed the cremation we did manage the farewell "Do"on the Chow Praya on the 100th day.

The usual scene involved our local 9 monks round the gaff sitting on the floor praying for a couple of hours with of course yours truly in agony crosslegged in front of them and repeating every word "overthe watter..etc"...

After that they all have a feed and then its a holy water job to bless the house (took me back to being an altar boy again)and every one else...with of course me the main target.

Following the gifts of yet again 9 yellow buckets with the goodies (all from Makro) they jumped in the moter and hopped it.

Then we all trooped down to the river at the Sam Prat terminal with me hanging on to the old head monk to stop him falling into an early Davy Jones.(women cant touch a monk)

Next we had a problem with the bones -the remains.

I for some reason ended up holding a white bag of the charred leftovers but khun wife got really upset when she noticed that her sisters name had not been etched on any of them.....do I need to explain?

As tour boat waited patiently (wife dad mate owns the outfit)we headed off on a moto to get the bones inscribed.

10 minutes later we all headed off to the mouth of the C.P.river while at the same time dodging 100,000 ton oil tankers...you think the roads are bad???

Anyway the ceremony then proceeded smoothly and I must admit I was quite moved by it.

The old monk carried out another blessing with holy oil (looked like mazola)granny dropped the package into the river,our nieces floated the flowers and everyone shed a tear and as we spead off we all waved bye bye.

The spirit which starts at the top of the mountain flows down through the rough pastures and valleys becomes a stream,then a river and finally enters the sea

In accordance with their faith the cycle of their life is thus complete.

[sbk]

Quite different from a funeral in the south, no fireworks, explosions, gunfire or music. Funerals here are noisy affairs but it is normal human noise, people talking, kids playing. I have been to more funerals than I can possibly count (went to a cremation ceremony just this morning in fact) as my husband is local and has an extremely large extended family.

They usually last 3 days to a week (chinese people are often longer), used to be held at the family house but now the wat has a place for it so most have it at the wat (chinese people, again, have the bodies at the home) . Large crowds of people come and go during the day, many people helping to prepare food (every thai event I know involves feeding your friends and relatives) Around 7-8 pm the monks come, chant and leave. The last day everybody comes around 12 noon for the cremation ceremony (never once saw the coffin get moved tho), more monk chanting, then close family goes to the body and lays matches wrapped in paper with a candle on the body (body is wrapped up by the way and has just spent the last days in a refrigerated coffin). Then the body is cremated. Later in the afternoon the monks will go to the home of the deceased and chant some more (this to purify the house was my understanding). This is only for immediate family. Then, on the 100 days there is a tambun (merit making) at the wat (feed the monks, more chanting). Then again at the one year mark. Often to be repeated every year, usually it is combined with other deceased relatives all on one date. We just recently had a tambun at the wat for my husband's uncle and grandfather. It was a small family affair but his cousin came down from Bangkok for it (believe it was the 10th anniversary of her father's death but am not 100% sure) so obviously still very important.

[LivinLOS]

My wifes funeral was a bit of a mess.. She was practically estranged from her family and her only really close relative (read the only one that did not beg money and get hopelessly drunk) is her sister in Europe..

We had the 5 day wat affair while the family tried to make every thing as horrible and cheap (while I paid for the lot lavishly) so more whisky could be brought at each opportunity.. While grieving beside the coffin I had to listen to her bitch of a mother (drunk gambler who literally deserted her when she was a child) put her down and criticising her inside the temple next to the coffin, I wanted to strangle her at that monent..

The wishes of her friends, me, and sister were all ingored (using the local temple to us so we could have the wake) and the family took over and used what was convenient and close to them, hence it was hard for all of her friends to get to the temple daily and tought to get her many friends all there to be together.. Hence I spent the days grieving at the temple surrounded by strangers who I resented and felt hostile to... In turn they blagged me for money. In retrospect I should have had more confidence and just not allowed them to take my wifes body from the hospital, she did not get on with them and I (and her friends) was her real family, my confidence at organizing the temple duties was low as my head was reeling and I made the mistake at the begging through weakness.

We cremated her 23rd Feb 2004.

Kim 3.7.74 to 18.2.2004 RIP

[kat]

I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. She was lucky to have found you in her lifetime here on earth.

[meom]

When my GF's father died there was the usual eating and drinking for a couple of days. Lots of whiskey and gambling as well. The thing that struck me was that it didn't cost anything; all people from the village brought money everyday which was spent on food, booze etc. Altogether the family received more than 100,000 baht so I suppose her father had some respect.

Anyway after the burning of the body my GF get a piece of her father's skull which she put in a gold case and wears around her neck. Depending upon her dreams she will later get rid of (throw away in the sea) or not.

All in all it was an interesting experience and it makes me wonder if us falang can also get a funeral pyre and such when we die.

[Ken]

All in all it was an interesting experience and it makes me wonder if us falang can also get a funeral pyre and such when we die.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, farong can and do have the same style of funeral in Thailand. A few months ago (June) I attended the funeral of my best friend in my small village (lung cancer got him). And it was a funeral fitting his wishes, with the days before the cremation, of monks praying, food eaten, lots and lots of whiskey/beer consumed. Not so much a "happy" affair but a way of dealing with the death. Then recently there was the "100 day" rites where the wife took an urn of the ashes/bones and placed them in a beautiful "shrine" (tomb) placed on his property in the village. And again lots of whiskey and beer flowed along with plenty of food. Seemed like a really nice way of saying a "last" goodbye (but not forgotten).

Fergus my friend, RIP.

[sua yai]

A number of years ago, I attended the Buddhist blessing of the ex g/f's father (he'd died 2 years before) and her husband (died some 6 years before).

We closed our bar for 4 days and a party of about 40 made the trip to Buriram province. 7 farang customers came with us.

The ex had said that about 1,000 people were expected over the three days. We all reckoned there would probably be only 100 or so. We were wrong. On the main day, we estimated about 2,000 people there to watch a singing and dancing performance given by 200 professionals. They had to clear the jungle to accommodate everyone.

Masses of beer, whisky and food for the occasion - only about 400 family and friends were catered for by the family.

Two things I will never forget. On the main day, a procession of family followed the monks 3 times around the family house for luck. I was asked to carry the ashes of her father. Couldn't understand why one of the older brothers didn't do it, but was told it was her mother's wish. I managed it, despite being well on the way to oblivion.

About 9 pm, the ex asked me to go upstairs to change into long trousers. I was wearing respectable tailored shorts and explained that I was more comfortable in them as it was hot. She asked again, so I changed. Whilst doing so, I was told to hurry up. "Why?" - "Because the two of us have to get up on the stage and make a speech before the festivties begin".

Great, 5 mins warning. I said I'd speak in English and she had to translate.

So when the microphone came my way, I just said the first thing that came to me - "Sawadee Krap, Buriram". About 2,000 people went wild, jumping up and down and applauding. Guess I got it right!!

Unfortunately, there were two incidents that marred the days. A fatal shooting - young drunken Thai boys. The culprit handed himself into the police the next day.

Also, the whole affair set the family back around 150,000 Baht. All the close relatives and friends donated money. One brother was moaning like mad that they'd only raised about 100,000 so were out of pocket.

Oh well, reckon the father and husband had a good send off.

That was long winded, but worth remembering. I still look at the edited video of it with fondness.

[Covertjay]

They are all right affairs I guess except when (speaking of gambling) the deceased died in a car and they gambler relies want the liscence plate number 'cause it's already used up it's bad luck. Nice touch, very thoughtful....

[siamruby]

My wifes funeral was a bit of a mess.. She was practically estranged from her family and her only really close relative (read the only one that did not beg money and get hopelessly drunk) is her sister in Europe..

We had the 5 day wat affair while the family tried to make every thing as horrible and cheap (while I paid for the lot lavishly) so more whisky could be brought at each opportunity.. While grieving beside the coffin I had to listen to her bitch of a mother (drunk gambler who literally deserted her when she was a child) put her down and criticising her inside the temple next to the coffin, I wanted to strangle her at that monent.. 

The wishes of her friends, me, and sister were all ingored (using the local temple to us so we could have the wake) and the family took over and used what was convenient and close to them, hence it was hard for all of her friends to get to the temple daily and tought to get her many friends all there to be together.. Hence I spent the days grieving at the temple surrounded by strangers who I resented and felt hostile to...  In turn they blagged me for money. In retrospect I should have had more confidence and just not allowed them to take my wifes body from the hospital, she did not get on with them and I (and her friends) was her real family, my confidence at organizing the temple duties was low as my head was reeling and I made the mistake at the begging through weakness.

We cremated her 23rd Feb 2004.

Kim 3.7.74 to 18.2.2004 RIP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My condolences, I am really sorry to hear that. Also reminded me when my dad died. I am Thai by the way. When it was the last hour of my dad's life in hospital my dad's family chose not to call his wife and his young kids at home. So we didn't have the last chance to say goodbye. Also any valuable thing he got with him dissapeared when mum got his body. The funeral was near their home so mum and her young kids (4,5,8) had to travel to the whole week of the funeral as we lived far away from the temple.

Well,I grew up and didn't know any relative on dad' side. Mum chose not to contact them but guess it suited them too as they were concern that the young widow and her young kids might need to ask them for help financially. Fortunately,we managed ok.

[LivinLOS]

I dont feel like going over all the terrible things that happend during those days but a prime example is that when they came to our house to get clothes to dress the body as I came back in the bedroom I caught her sister and mother attempting to steal about 8 baht of gold that was Kims.. When confronted they claimed it needed to be burnt with the body..

Obviously checking with other Thais if this was customory (I doubted it to say the least) the real answer was they were trying to steal anything valuable within 12 hours of her passing.

[sua yai]

That's dreadful.

When the ex's mother passed away 2 years ago, the family burnt her mattress and belongings. I later found out that there was @ 100,000 Baht in the mattress. Up in smoke!!

The other thing I couldn't abide was everyone searching for teeth after the cremation. Meant to be lucky.

I suppose we all grieve in our own ways.

[siamruby]

That's dreadful.

When the ex's mother passed away 2 years ago, the family burnt  her mattress and belongings. I later found out that there was @ 100,000 Baht in the mattress. Up in smoke!!

The other thing I couldn't abide was everyone searching for teeth after the cremation. Meant to be lucky.

I suppose we all grieve in our own ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow that was an expensive funeral! I have never heard of lucky teeth but heard of people searching for gold teeth and certainly that s not for luck!

[Tufty]

About 6 years ago in Korat, I attended the funeral of my then g/f's cousin, a 14 year old boy who died in a motorcycle accident

It all started in the morning, with half the village preparing food, and early afternoon the body was delivered from the hospital in a plywood coffin on the back of a multi coloured truck (the family was very poor so I supposed they couldn't afford a hearse)

They did the 4 day stuff with drinking, playing games etc in a marque outside his parents house.

The boys coffin was encased in an ornate red and gold box covered in xmas lights (all brought from the temple) and large photos and flowers positioned either side.

Everyday at 4pm 4 monks arrived and did a lot of chanting everyone took part in the prayers and offered food to the monks.

On the 4 day at around 10am it seamed half of the village arrived to say one last goodbye, everyone's name including myself was called over a PA system and in turn approached the coffin and left a donation to the family shortly afterwards several monks turned up, loads more chanting with their faces hidden behind small blue screens.

After all the prayers were said the coffin was removed from the red and gold box and loaded on to the truck again for transportation to the temple, there was a procession through the village, flowers and photos of the boy in front of the truck and the family following behind.

As we approached the temple I could see the chimney, the entrance was a few yards down the road but we went straight past.

I had absolutely no idea where we were going and assumed it was the wrong temple, a few hundred yards later the procession veered off into a wood where the coffin was placed on a funeral pyre (5 feet of twigs and branches)

Everyone was given a menthol inhaler and a small piece of wood, The cremation was fueled by several gallons of petrol, and once lit everyone filed past the flames saying a small prayer and threw on the piece of wood

A very sad day indeed

[sua yai]

siamrugby,

Havn't got used to this quote thing yet.

You'd be more able to advise me about the teeth. I'm sure they were ivory, rather than gold, but must admit I didn't take too long looking at the kids picking them up. Everyone seemed happy though.

However long I've been in Thailand, there are just some things that get to me. That was one of them and her mother was a good person. I didn't say a word.

[siamruby]

siamrugby,

Havn't got used to this quote thing yet.

You'd be more able to advise me about the teeth. I'm sure they were ivory, rather than gold, but must admit I didn't take too long looking at the kids picking them up. Everyone seemed happy though.

However long I've been in Thailand, there are just some things that get to me. That was one of them and her mother was a good person. I didn't say a word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No I didn't mean the real teeth, I meant the 22k gold that the rich people use to cover their teeth,it s very popular with the Thai-Chinese. Another thing I think they do is the undertaker or relative will put some coins in the mouth of the dead person to spend all the way to heaven, well that is the idea . I know the chinese go one step ahead of the Thais. They will burn model paper of everything which they think the dead will want or need. You name it they got it..paper house,paper servants, paper car, paper money etc. all in miniature version. That is the way of sending the goodies to the dead on the otherside.

Thais, on the other hand don't have that tradition of burning paper things. But we only seem to send food to the otherside via the monks. What we do is we give the dead's favorite food to the monks to eat then the monks will prey for the dead and then in the evening we come home and pour water on the ground and prey, telling the dead that the food is on the way this ritual with water is called 'kruat num' .

It might sound silly to you but I think it s a way of how people grieve for their love one as they feel that they can do something.

[kogrutter]

I suppose if we are there long enough we all have a story. About nine years ago my GF passed away while I was in the States. Family called and asked if I would attend (translated pay for) and for how long did I want the wake for and how many monks did I want. Three, five, seven, nine? I was not thinking very clearly at the time. I pretty much acceded to whatever they wanted.

I went to the apartment I was paying for and the place had been cleared out-stereo, tv, refrigerator, etc. The sister explained it had been moved to another sister's place for "safe keeping". I never saw the stuff again. I remembered where she stashed her gold and when I retreived it in front of the family members you would have thought I had put a cattle prod up their collective butts. The mother claimed by tradition, the gold was hers. I told her another tradition, American, was that the one that paid for it usually kept it. As the funeral had not been paid for as yet, they let it go-reluctantly.

One custom that startled me was when I first approached Patchanee's coffin, her sister told me to go up and knock three times, hard, and let her know I was there. Another custom that takes a strong heart is (heard this was a Northern custom) when they take the coffin to the mouth of the crematorium they open it and if you are a participant (I was) you pour water, oil and sprinkle rice over the corpse. Actually, all you see is the face of the body. It happens fairly quickly and then they place the lid back on and into the fire box they go. Folks stick around for a bit, but then begin to trickle off. The next day you go back and retrieve bits of bones and ashes and the monks take them to the Chao Phyra for final disposal or internment in mother river. In my case, the mother insisted I take some of the bones back to the US with me because her daughter had always had a desire to go with me there.

I was given a small brass chedi and did as instructed. Kept the bones in the US for a few years and then brought them back as I wanted to give them a proper burial or internment. Put them in storage, which I discovered was a no no, at a friends home. The friend (Thai) was not aware of the stash. When I told my current lady of the stash she went bonkers. You must put them in the river immediately. Poor Patchanee is not at rest and may very well not be into her next life because of my botching of the matter. Not only that, I was bringing bad luck to the person that I had stashed them with. I wasn't averse to doing this but had I known the deep concern placed on this action by the Thais, I would have done it much sooner. Patchanee is now in the river and all is in balance with my friend that had stored her and my girlfriend is now speaking to me again.

One more item. A fellow of about 25 or so was collecting envelopes at the funeral. I asked what he was doing and got a garbled answer. Turns out, money was being donated to assist in defraying the costs of the funeral-a tradition. When the bill for the affair arrived, booze, music, food, ad infinitum, it was presented to me with fanfare. About 90000 bht. None of the envelopes ever came my way. Turns out this was Patchanees Thai boyfriend. When I went out the door to the US, he came in the door. I could afford the money. Not a problem. I was not quite as charitible about the BF. When I learned from a friend outside of the family circle, I shut down their ATM. I didn't respond to repeated requests from the family wanting money for various bogus heart wrenching stories. After a few years, they gave up.

I was new and naive. I've learned a bit. There should be a primer for the new guys. Westerners can be pretty stupid (it's been said their brains turn to mush)when it comes to the wiles of a detemined Thai woman.

[Ken]

I was new and naive.  I've learned a bit.  There should be a primer for the new guys. Westerners can be pretty stupid (it's been said their brains turn to mush)when it comes to the wiles of a detemined Thai woman.

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kogrutter:

Wow, that was quite a story. And all things considered quite believable, unfortunately. I have seen similar things happen. Hopefully your new girl is better?

[sua yai]

No. I don't think it's silly. Very serious.

The mother had a ten baht coin in her mouth as she went to the pyre.

I suppose we have our own religions - ie, coins on the eyes to pay for the gatekeeper.

[Sully]

Folks ... all very interesting stories and I would like to thank all who contributed. You learn something new everday.

Sully

No. I don't think it's silly. Very serious.

The mother had a ten baht coin in her mouth as she went to the pyre.

I suppose we have our own religions - ie, <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=coins&v=56">coins</a> on the eyes to pay for  the gatekeeper.

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