Are Tourist Police Still Engaging In Torture Of Farang Prisoners

[Jingthing]

I am currently reading Welcome to hel_l by Colin Martin published by ASIA BOOKS (highly recommended) about how he was tortured into confessing to murder by the Bangkok tourist police. The book was published in 2005. I believe his account. The torture methods including brutal beatings while in restraints, repeated cattle prod electrocution of his genitals and nipples, as well as having a plastic bag tied over his head, and a gun pointed to his head with threats of murder. He suffered 5 hours of such torture methods before "confessing". His torture was also videotaped. He was told this was for training purposes.

This would be shocking from any police, anywhere. But from TOURIST police? We are led to believe the TOURIST police are there to especially serve tourists, yes?, not torture us.

This was the BANGKOK tourist police. Does anyone know if they are as bad as they were, and also whether the Pattaya tourist police and other areas were/are just as bad and corrupt?

BTW, Mr Martin makes an important point we should all be aware of. Yes, it is true that farangs are always blamed in any conflict between a Thai and a farang. The reason he states is not racial discrimination. The reason is money. We usually have it and we will usually pay.

Happy thoughts, huh?

Edited August 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Any proof of this ?

[Jingthing]

Any proof of this ?

It is a non-fiction account. You would have to believe the author. I find him very credible.

[12DrinkMore]

This would be shocking from any police, anywhere. But from TOURIST police? We are led to believe the TOURIST police are there to especially serve tourists, yes?, not torture us.

Misconception.

The Tourist Police are not here to help but to POLICE tourists, including residents, as indeed the name suggests.

[Prakanong]

Any proof of this ?

It is a non-fiction account. You would have to believe the author. I find him very credible.

Sorry but I do not - there are so many holes in his account.

He never admits killing the bloke when they rolled down the embankment - who did?

Why would the Tourist Police be involved in this type of criminal investigation - it wouldbea matter for the ordinary police.

Another thing - he is allegged to reurn to Thailand and is seen in Pattaya according to reports - how does he get back in and why not PNG - and more to the point after all that would you return?

This book belongs alongside Warren Fellows and "hel_l's Prisoner" in the book of south east Asian prison fairy tales.

[2008bangkok]

i must admit when i 1st came to Thailand i did the same as the next man and read up on a few legend books, fellows being one of them and private dancer being another then i thought id read this book and its the 1st book i put down half way through and said to myself i cant read anymore of this mans <deleted>....and never picked it back up

[Prakanong]

i must admit when i 1st came to Thailand i did the same as the next man and read up on a few legend books, fellows being one of them and private dancer being another then i thought id read this book and its the 1st book i put down half way through and said to myself i cant read anymore of this mans <deleted>....and never picked it back up

I am a glutton for buying any book about Thailand - the amount i have not read or put down after a few pages is criminal.

Its worse now though as there is a market so any illiterate goon can get published if he talk about Thai jails or bar girls - there is some absolute <deleted> out there - often reviewed by illiterate uneducated oiks which cause others to buy the books and get disappointed

If I had to talk about decent authors on the Farang Thai scene I would only name a few and that is only my opinion and may thing more about them as I have met some of them

Stephen Leather - mainly his thriller airport novels though for a quick rad

Dean Barret

Errm

Christpher Moore - although find them hard going and only read two

Colin Pipperel

Jake Needham

John Burdett

[Maestro]

...he was tortured into confessing to murder by the Bangkok tourist police...

...Yes, I agree it is a misconception that they are our friends, farang PR volunteers create a false impression...

In the above quotes from posts by Jingthing the highlighting in bold was added by me.

Jingthing, please make up your mind what you want this topic to be about.

– In the original post, starting this topic, you said that the book talks about torturing by the Bangkok tourist police.

– In a later post you mention farang PR volunteers, whatever this may be.

– The Stickman review you quote mentions Thai police.

I did a quick search for reviews of the book you mention and could not find any that mentions the tourist police. A picture of the book cover mentions no police at all but has the subtitle “One man’s fight for life inside the Bangkok Hilton”:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/09548707..._pt#reader-link

I do not think that you started this topic with a hidden agenda of inviting discussion about the tourist police volunteers and therefore will now delete all posts about them and other unknown volunteers (eg farang PR volunteers) for being off topic.

Whether the book you talk about does in fact mention torture by the Bangkok tourist police is, in my opinion, still open to debate at this juncture.

--

Maestro

[BFD]

Well, I read the book last year sometime. I found it to be pretty poorly written, but horrifying nonetheless. I do recall some pretty intense torture scenes BEFORE he was in prison (even before he'd been charged for anything). However, I can't recall if they were Tourist Police or not.

On the other hand, I suppose any police being involved in this kind of thing is pretty terrible.

BFD!

[Jingthing]

No! I have the book in front of me. He clearly accused the BANGKOK TOURIST POLICE of the torture. It is in black and white. You can believe it or not, but the author clearly accuses the TOURIST POLICE.

From the book (my comments in italic):

Unfortunately, as the original compaint had been made to the tourist police, and because O'Connor was a foreigner (the criminal who the author accuses of stealing 460K USD from him), everything was handed over to them. And that was where my real troubles began. (the torture, the forced confession, the imprisonment).

Maestro, the point you have made is NOT open to debate. The accused is the BANGKOK TOURIST POLICE. However, you are correct, it is bad idea to steer this into a discussion about farang tourist police volunteers in various parts of Thailand.

BTW, Maestro, I am personally INSULTED that you think I would start a thread like this and get such an important detail wrong.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[kmart]

Most of the books about Thailand and the time served in prison here should be issued with coloured crayons.

[Naam]

Jingthing's favourite pastime is to publish in Thaivisa anything negative about Thailand, poorly disguised in polls and questions. i hope to see the day when he finally gets a life (working as a baht bus driver in Pattaya)

[Jingthing]

Jingthing's favourite pastime is to publish in Thaivisa anything negative about Thailand, poorly disguised in polls and questions. i hope to see the day when he finally gets a life (working as a baht bus driver in Pattaya)

Asia Books published this. Not me. I am asking if people believe the story and if so whether there is any reason the tourist police aren't still capable of this. I believe the author. I wish I didn't.

Note to Prakanong: the book is presented as a true life account of what happened to the author. It is NOT a novel. Comparing this to a novel or expecting great literary ability from a person who doesn't normally write books is absurd.

Link to the Stickman review:

In any case, I suggest more people read the book and please let me know if you believe the story, as I do.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Buckwheat

[RakJungTorlae]

Why dose this sounds like a copy of 12 years in hel_l” Damage done” book by that Australian guy. Imo I think its fake and his copied for just money. It sound like it worked as well. Capturing the imagination. If it is true then they have broken the agreement between the UN. Also I think the tourist police can’t handle shit. Try getting in to a fight with a bib. You want to see my scar??

[Jingthing]

Why dose this sounds like a copy of 12 years in hel_l” Damage done” book by that Australian guy. Imo I think its fake and his copied for just money. It sound like it worked as well. Capturing the imagination. If it is true then they have broken the agreement between the UN. Also I think the tourist police can’t handle shit. Try getting in to a fight with a bib. You want to see my scar??

You are talking (I think) about the self admitted Aussie drug runner. I don't recall he mentioned torture to get a confession as he was caught red handed.

In the book I am talking about, the author claims innocence of a murder (so far in the book, there was no actual DEAD BODY but I will let you know, still reading it) and being tortured to obtain a false confession. There are alot of farangs in Thai prison. Sorry if this is too confusing for you. BTW, interesting point, that the author says a regular Chonburi police official (not tourist police) offered to get him off early in the process for 300K baht, but the author didn't have the money at the time (as his forture had been stolen by a farang scam artist whose bodyguard was the alleged murder victim) and he didn't really didn't know whether paying off would have worked or not. Chonburi was involved because the fight occurred in Chonburi province.

I do wonder why this account wasn't made into a movie?

Edited August 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[haybilly]

Jingthing's favourite pastime is to publish in Thaivisa anything negative about Thailand, poorly disguised in polls and questions. i hope to see the day when he finally gets a life (working as a baht bus driver in Pattaya)

Asia Books published this. Not me. I am asking if people believe the story and if so whether there is any reason the tourist police aren't still capable of this. I believe the author. I wish I didn't.

Note to Prakanong: the book is presented as a true life account of what happened to the author. It is NOT a novel. Comparing this to a novel or expecting great literary ability from a person who doesn't normally write books is absurd.

Link to the Stickman review:

In any case, I suggest more people read the book and please let me know if you believe the story, as I do.

Sorry, but I also have read quite a few 'novels' about Thailand, be it the bar scene, prison scene and so on--I have yet found one that I have found in the slightest bit convincing. They are all written to make money and play on all the fears, stereotypes etc...of your newly arrived farang--read them if you want but I don't advise you to believe them.

[DP25]

Not gonna read the book, maybe it happened, maybe not. But a lot of criminals that end up in Thai jails publish some ridiculously sensationalist account of what happened to them in order to make a bit of cash. I don't blame them, I would do it too if I spent years locked up sleeping in a cell with 30 Thai dudes. The fact that stickman reviews the book certainly doesn't make me any more likely to believe it. The opposite in fact.

[Jingthing]

It is very unfair to assume this account is false just because it is another book about farangs imprisoned in Thailand. Perhaps it is naive of me to believe it, but I find it very unfair to assume all such accounts are false.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[12DrinkMore]

There are alot of farangs in Thai prison.

And they are not there because of having a three week holiday in Thailand visiting Wat Pra Keo and spending some time on Rawai beach, are they? Most have been involved with drugs and I have no sympathy.

Pity that Thaksin and his Misses will not be spending a few nights in the BKK Hilton too.

[Jingthing]

There are alot of farangs in Thai prison.

And they are not there because of having a three week holiday in Thailand visiting Wat Pra Keo and spending some time on Rawai beach, are they? Most have been involved with drugs and I have no sympathy.

Pity that Thaksin and his Misses will not be spending a few nights in the BKK Hilton too.

The case we are talking about has no involvement in drugs, whatsoever.

BTW, if you don't have sympathy for most of the people living in the poor conditions in Thai prisons, you lack a heart. Perhaps a small percentage deserve to be treated that way, but most human beings don't.

[Kerryd]

I do wonder why this account wasn't made into a movie?

The first thing that comes to mind, is that if his story was just a routine, got arrested and released story, it wouldn't sell. Be careful of what you believe. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's 100% truth, just his version of it (and I doubt that many authors that wants to make money off their work would hestitate overly long about "blurring" things a bit.

When did all this (allegedly) occur ?

[mikethevigoman]

Another criminal using his notoriety to cash in, the police in thailand work differently to western ways and this is how they get confessions,.im not condoning it although i but think a farang shouldnt be treated any differently,.tourist police ? i doubt it, probably a police interpretor,. if you commit crime in thailand be prepared for the "thai way " of justice,after all this is thailand,.

[Jingthing]

I do wonder why this account wasn't made into a movie?

The first thing that comes to mind, is that if his story was just a routine, got arrested and released story, it wouldn't sell. Be careful of what you believe. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's 100% truth, just his version of it (and I doubt that many authors that wants to make money off their work would hestitate overly long about "blurring" things a bit.

When did all this (allegedly) occur ?

I don't believe everything I read. Of course, nothing is 100 percent truth. But this torture happened or it didn't happen. How can you be so sure it didn't happen?

The book was published in 2005. The author had served 8 years for his "crime" at the Bangkok Hilton. So subtract 8 years from 2005. BTW, Wiki claims he works today as a welder. I hope he reads Thaivisa and will post.

[lingnoi34]

...The fact that stickman reviews the book certainly doesn't make me any more likely to believe it. The opposite in fact...

How very true!!!

L

[Ulysses G.]

Torture is common in police stations, jails and prisons all over the world. There is no way that the police could control prisoners and get so many "confesions" without it. The harder the normal lives of the common people, the worse the torture/conditions get.

In the U.S. The strong inmates are allowed to beat and rape the weak ones and if the strong ones become a threat to the guards they are thrown into "the hole" with no contact with other human beings, no clothes, no windows, no toilet, no TVs, radios, air flow or reading matter - nothing to do but sit in the tiny, hot or cold bare rooms for sometimes months at a time and stare at the walls and if the inmate still doesn't tow the line they will be forced into taking very unpleasant medication originally designed for controlling concentration camp victims and to break the spirit.

In Thailand, inmates are given very little food and crammed with hundreds of other prisoners into tiny rooms where they sleep on the floor. They have to wear chains around their legs which often cause terrible infections and make it very difficult to climb over other prisoners to use the toilet at night. If they anger a stronger inmate, he may kill them right there.

For punishment, prisoners are forced into hot, coffin sized boxes that they can't even sit up in and just lay there for sometimes months at a time and only let out for few minutes every day to use the toilet.

Jingthing is right to point out this kind of thing, but the truth is that is exists and is ignored pretty much everywhere!

Edited August 13, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Prakanong]

Why dose this sounds like a copy of 12 years in hel_l” Damage done” book by that Australian guy. Imo I think its fake and his copied for just money. It sound like it worked as well. Capturing the imagination. If it is true then they have broken the agreement between the UN. Also I think the tourist police can’t handle shit. Try getting in to a fight with a bib. You want to see my scar??

You are talking (I think) about the self admitted Aussie drug runner. I don't recall he mentioned torture to get a confession as he was caught red handed.

In the book I am talking about, the author claims innocence of a murder (so far in the book, there was no actual DEAD BODY but I will let you know, still reading it) and being tortured to obtain a false confession. There are alot of farangs in Thai prison. Sorry if this is too confusing for you. BTW, interesting point, that the author says a regular Chonburi police official (not tourist police) offered to get him off early in the process for 300K baht, but the author didn't have the money at the time (as his forture had been stolen by a farang scam artist whose bodyguard was the alleged murder victim) and he didn't really didn't know whether paying off would have worked or not. Chonburi was involved because the fight occurred in Chonburi province.

I do wonder why this account wasn't made into a movie?

So the ordinary police were involved in Chonburi first - how the hel_l did this get passed to Tourist Police - just would not happen - get real

"

Note to Prakanong: the book is presented as a true life account of what happened to the author. It is NOT a novel. Comparing this to a novel or expecting great literary ability from a person who doesn't normally write books is absurd."

Yes the book is absurd I agree.

[Prakanong]

I do wonder why this account wasn't made into a movie?

The first thing that comes to mind, is that if his story was just a routine, got arrested and released story, it wouldn't sell. Be careful of what you believe. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's 100% truth, just his version of it (and I doubt that many authors that wants to make money off their work would hestitate overly long about "blurring" things a bit.

When did all this (allegedly) occur ?

I don't believe everything I read. Of course, nothing is 100 percent truth. But this torture happened or it didn't happen. How can you be so sure it didn't happen?

The book was published in 2005. The author had served 8 years for his "crime" at the Bangkok Hilton. So subtract 8 years from 2005. BTW, Wiki claims he works today as a welder. I hope he reads Thaivisa and will post.

I remember the reporting very well in the Bangkok Post as I was living there at the time- if i had to hazard a year it was 1999

A lot of the guy's fiddled out of their money were from my home town - ex-shipyard workers hired to build a barge but the had to put their own redundancy money in and lost it. Having to pay for jobs is illegal in the UK but they got round it by advertising in The Sunderland Echo from a Dutch company if I remember correctly - call me cynical but I reckon Mr Martin was in on the fiddle and only got his back up when his partner in crime the Kiwi fiddles him too

[think_too_mut]

I am currently reading Welcome to hel_l by Colin Martin published by ASIA BOOKS (highly recommended) about how he was tortured into confessing to murder by the Bangkok tourist police. The book was published in 2005. I believe his account. The torture methods including brutal beatings while in restraints, repeated cattle prod electrocution of his genitals and nipples, as well as having a plastic bag tied over his head, and a gun pointed to his head with threats of murder. He suffered 5 hours of such torture methods before "confessing". His torture was also videotaped. He was told this was for training purposes.

This would be shocking from any police, anywhere. But from TOURIST police? We are led to believe the TOURIST police are there to especially serve tourists, yes?, not torture us.

This was the BANGKOK tourist police. Does anyone know if they are as bad as they were, and also whether the Pattaya tourist police and other areas were/are just as bad and corrupt?

BTW, Mr Martin makes an important point we should all be aware of. Yes, it is true that farangs are always blamed in any conflict between a Thai and a farang. The reason he states is not racial discrimination. The reason is money. We usually have it and we will usually pay.

Happy thoughts, huh?

The book is rubbish. A red neck who indeed suffered could not have written it, someone else did it for him.

(I pulled that junk book from a box, have it now in front of me.)

The whole misconception (and OP's misunderstanding) starts here:

On the page 70, it says:

" Unfortunatelly, as the original complaint had been made to the tourist police, and because O'Connor was a foreigner, everything was handed over to them. And that was where my real trouble began".

No word about foreigners, that's what the real writer of the book did not care or did not understand was important.

That is what the OP misread, not surprisingly. It is not tourist police. It's Police that deals with non-Thais.

On the pages that follow, the torture is described but he had never said the torturers were foreigners.

The policemen were regular Thai police.

Another proof that the book was compiled by an outsider who had missed important details that prompted the OP to write his naive and wrong post.

I am not inclined to read it again, if someone can pinpoint on what page the tourist police (farang volonteers) was named as involved in any torture, I would apologize and stand corrected.

[mizzi39]

I have to agree with most of the posts here Op, the book is trash. I read it last year and there are many wholes in it. I remember even writing a book review on it. I understand that the author was scammed and lost a lot of money. He waited in BKK for something like 2 years until he finally found the people who conned him. His first wife left him, he claims that his Thai wife tried to sell their baby to him when he was released.

He was sent to jail for murder. Someone was stabbed multiple times, but he does not remember doing it. He has utter contempt not just for the Thai bureaucracy, but for all Thais. He claimed that he could have been sent back to Ireland after 4 years, but he decided to stay in the belief that he could win his case. To much embellishment for my taste!

Followup: Hope I didn't ruin the story for you OP!

Edited August 13, 2008 by mizzi39

[Ulysses G.]

There was an article in the Bangkok Post or the Nation this past week describing the inhumanity of all the jails in South East Asia. The guy who wrote Welcome to He11 might full of crap, but most of what he wrote about actually goes on.