True Or False?

[ajarntrade]

The 3 most difficult things for a Thai man to say are:

1. I was wrong

2. I'm sorry

3. I love you

I think it is true.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think #1 and #2 are very hard for them to say, especially when they HAVE done something awful- they would rather just act very nice and sweet and let that be their apology by proxy.

I haven't had an problems with #3, though, from the one or two Thai guys whom I think really DID/DO love me- wouldn't expect to hear it from those who're just looking for sex/money/fun, naturally!!!

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

Oh, I've heard #3 LOTS of times... from Bar Boys.. and my Thai ex. who used to BE one

I also never heard my Thai ex say "I was wrong", or "I'm Sorry"... I think it's also the "loss of face" issue...

Oh, hang on, he DID say "I'm sorry for what heppen between us" after we broke up...!

However, my current Thai bf - however moody he might be - does apologize, although I can tell it doesn't come easy, and expects me to do the same. But then again.. he is heavily westernised.

ChrisP

[Ice Treasure]

I am approaching the point, where I want to say something, in public, to my Thai Love. He is my boyfriend, but I think of him as my love.

I have so many reasons to say to you my darling, how I feel. I am saying it here, in hopes that others may see the possibility of life without the need for large cash payments, for trips shopping and Rolex watches, diamond rings and gold for mother. You have no name here, so you can read it, and know I am so proud of you, and I will love you, till the end of time.

I love you for sharing the special moment as your grandmother and grandfather touched us as we knelt in front of them in their tiny lounge, with your little sister and your cousin, your father and your uncle, kneeling near and around us, and we thanked the Lord Buddha who set Kharma for us to meet.

I love you for ringing me up between classes, just so you can hear my voice.

I love you for looking beyond "farang" and finding "my love".

I love you for being honest and open with me, when others want you to lie to me, to save their faces.

I love your laughter when I am quite tollok.

I love it when you are a big pooying.

I love your sadness when you seek my comfort.

I love your touch when I grieve for loss I don't understand.

I love it when you buy mama because we had to pay for an extra class, and you eat it with me.

I love to wake you gently in the morning, and praise the fate that gives us one more together.

I love to wai phra with you for sadness among people who don't understand, that they will be at peace with themselves.

I love little messages on the phone that remind me that I love you as much as you love me.

I love the plans we have made, that we have completed, and the ones we have, yet to be fulfilled.

I love it when you tell me you are sorry for not understanding, because it lets me learn how to teach you.

I love it when you blame yourself for something we are both responsible for, because it lets me remind you that I also was wrong.

I love making up, before we have a fight, just in case we do one day.

Thank you my darling, for being my treasure, my warm, lovely treasure.

Thank you just for being .

I really really really do Love you so much.

[ChrisP]

Wow.... that's SO wonderful...!

Thanks Ice.

Edited November 17, 2004 by ChrisP

[PeaceBlondie]

Not relating to sex, but to the "I'm sorry" statement in Thailand:

I couldn't quiet down my class of 13 year olds on Wednesday; they just would not shut up. So, in front of everybody, I went to the adjoining desks of the noisiest students and slapped their desks VERY loud with my bare hands. It could have looked like I was about to hit them, as well (which I wouldn't have done, but I had lost my temper.) Everybody lost face.

The next day, individually and in front of the class, I apologized. Methinks they hardly knew what an apology means in Thailand.

So, I think that Thai boyfriends wouldn't know an apology if you offered them one, nor would they be very apt to offer one.

[Ice Treasure]

Not relating to sex, but to the "I'm sorry" statement in Thailand:

I couldn't quiet down my class of 13 year olds on Wednesday; they just would not shut up.  So, in front of everybody, I went to the adjoining desks of the noisiest students and slapped their desks VERY loud with my bare hands.  It could have looked like I was about to hit them, as well (which I wouldn't have done, but I had lost my temper.)  Everybody lost face.

The next day, individually and in front of the class, I apologized.  Methinks they hardly knew what an apology means in Thailand.

So, I think that Thai boyfriends wouldn't know an apology if you offered them one, nor would they be very apt to offer one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks so much Peace Blondie. I know how you feel, even though I don't agree. Truth is I also used to spend a lot of time around bars. Haven't walked into one in 3 years. No I didn't meet him in a bar and in fact he has NEVER been in one and I know that for a fact.

I may have been spoiled, but not only have been apologised to for things he thought he had done, he was well aware of the reasons on the occasions I had need to apologise to him.

Have a great weekend and a small scotch for me.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, ice treasure, but maybe you've got me confused with somebody else. I wasn't talking about bars (was that the thread topic? Color me ADD). My 13 year olds weren't being noisy in a bar.

Anyway, I agree with somebody that even the non-rental Thai gay men are good at saying "I love you." My boyfriend's good at it.

[astral]

Not relating to sex, but to the "I'm sorry" statement in Thailand:

I couldn't quiet down my class of 13 year olds on Wednesday; they just would not shut up.  So, in front of everybody, I went to the adjoining desks of the noisiest students and slapped their desks VERY loud with my bare hands.  It could have looked like I was about to hit them, as well (which I wouldn't have done, but I had lost my temper.)  Everybody lost face.

The next day, individually and in front of the class, I apologized.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did they in turn apologise to you for their bad behaviour?

I doubt it.

[PeaceBlondie]

On the subject of apologies from my students, astral asked,

"Did they in turn apologise to you for their bad behaviour?

I doubt it."

Nope, and that's what is so neat about apology or confession. You have to do it expecting nothing in return. You apologize because you screwed up, not because you want THEM to apologize.

When my brothers-in-law were little children, they got in a fight. Mama decided which one was to blame and she ordered him to say he was sorry to his brother. The boy said, "I'm sorry that you hit me!"

[Ice Treasure]

Sorry Blondie that was unfair and I apologise.

It is too easy by half to generalise and then remove any hope for the future of deep, meaningful relationships with Thais. They are possible and they do happen.

At the end of the day my point has always been if you deal with real people you get real responses and real attitudes.

I know the kids weren't in a bar, they were in a classroom. You banged the tables, they realised you were pissed, they lost face, but they also shut up.

If at the end of the day you seek a situation where face is lost in the short term, but the goal you sought was achieved, them further saving face requires that you say nothing about it. I don't believe it has anything to do with not understanding the nature of or the need for, apology, it's about acceptance of responsibility which MANY (not all) Thais have a problem with.

Ice

[cathyy]

The 3 most difficult things for a Thai man to say are:

1. I was wrong

2. I'm sorry

3. I love you

Thai men? How about just plain men?

My sweetie has explained this to me in some detail, bless him.

He can't return a purchase to the store. It would be admitting he was WRONG when he bought it. It's also why he can't ask for directions, because he thought he knew how to get there. And #2? How can you apologize for anything, since apologizing means admitting you were WRONG?

As far as #3 goes, he tells me all the time. But I'm the high-maintenance one in the relationship.

[Guest endure]

The 3 most difficult things for a Thai man to say are:

1. I was wrong

2. I'm sorry

3. I love you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai men? How about just plain men?

My sweetie has explained this to me in some detail, bless him.

He can't return a purchase to the store. It would be admitting he was WRONG when he bought it. It's also why he can't ask for directions, because he thought he knew how to get there. And #2? How can you apologize for anything, since apologizing means admitting you were WRONG?

As far as #3 goes, he tells me all the time. But I'm the high-maintenance one in the relationship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My Thai bf has no problem apologising when he's done something wrong, neither does he have any problem admitting when he's done something wrong in the first place.

[ChrisP]

Mine neither...

But I do think we're in the (lucky?) minority, endure.

ChrisP

[Guest endure]

Mine neither...

But I do think we're in the (lucky?) minority, endure. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks like it