New Thai Movie "hanuman" Is Virulently Racist

[lannarebirth]

Racist??

You mentioned racist and Thai in the same post and did not get the topic closed, or get a ban???

The night is still young.

GuestHouse, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think you might be right. Mixing the racial stereotyping in the movie and opening up the old is farang a bad word discussion was probably ill advised. Maybe we can just focus on the stereotyping and leave the farang word discussion for another day.

If you're mixing things up, why not include the western media's inclusion of negative stereotypes when discussing all things Thai.

It's never happened to me or mine, but I hear many people here say they or their wives have been insulted with references to "Buying" them. Of course western news outlets only portray Thailand as one big whorehouse and pedophile den. Many people here refer to them as "Somchais", etc. You get my drift.

[lannarebirth]

The point has been made here that Hollywood has historically portrayed Germans, Russians, French and more recently Arabs the bad guys, the evil people who threaten the US/West and its values.

Well yes that is true, but there is a distinct difference and another Hollywood lesson to learn.

These groups, more specifically Nations are all external to the USl, and they are coincidentally groups/nations which at the time they were portrayed in these negative ways were in conflict with the US.

IMO German-Americans, French-Americans, Russian Americans, etc. could take it in stride, I think our local potpourri mix of farangs can as well.

I wouldn't sweat what may get included in a "B" movie. We're just substitutes for aliens or "The Blob".

[Jingthing]

You get my drift.

Sure I do. I have experienced ant-Asian racism by both white and black Americans first hand in the US with some of my friends there (Vietnamese and Chinese). Its all bad. However, I don't think any recent US movies with Thai references, even with their "goes down quicker than a Thai ho" jokes are nearly as bad as anything in Hanuman.

[lannarebirth]

You get my drift.

Sure I do. I have experienced ant-Asian racism by both white and black Americans first hand in the US with some of my friends there (Vietnamese and Chinese). Its all bad. However, I don't think any recent US movies with Thai references, even with their "goes down quicker than a Thai ho" jokes are nearly as bad as anything in Hanuman.

I avoid crappy movies (no offense Damian), so I'll take your word for that. I understand the television here isn't very good either.

[Jingthing]

You get my drift.

Sure I do. I have experienced ant-Asian racism by both white and black Americans first hand in the US with some of my friends there (Vietnamese and Chinese). Its all bad. However, I don't think any recent US movies with Thai references, even with their "goes down quicker than a Thai ho" jokes are nearly as bad as anything in Hanuman.

I avoid crappy movies (no offense Damian), so I'll take your word for that. I understand the television here isn't very good either.

Sure, its a good one to skip. I think Hanuman will do good box office here though. The trailer was good, its got plenty of violence, and I think Thais are attracted to Monkey God stories. All thats missing is ghosts!

Edited August 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[elkangorito]

The point that I was trying to get across is whether or not censorship of such movies was/is more relaxed than the censorship of other movies, which are all available in Thailand. If so, this would clearly indicate that a "higher power" is trying to influence the masses.

I am not trying to focus on stereotypes or racism. I am trying to discern between "government influence" or otherwise, if such an influence exists

EDIT:

Gay people were constantly portrayed as villains/losers in the recent past. At that point in time, a government simply "went along" with the perceived view of the majority. A draconian "censorship board" only helped to maintain stereotypical beliefs for a long time.

As an example, I cite the movie "Rebel Without A Cause".

Edited August 15, 2008 by elkangorito

[Sabum]

I saw it, its pretty bad. Some of the action was good, story was meh.... I was surprised to see falangs with big roles in a Thai movie though, this is a good thing I guess, too bad they are roles of really bad people but it is a gangster movie with semi super hero (Thai star) and semi super villains (falangs). The bad things they do were outrageous and over the top.... hard to take seriously, Im thinking the Thais wont either.

[DP25]

Hong Kong kung <deleted> movies used to have the same kind of racism, lots of really bad, evil white guys as the villians, getting beat up by the heroic local kung <deleted> master. Not so much anymore. Thailand will be the same in 20 years after it grows up some more.

[elkangorito]

Hong Kong kung <deleted> movies used to have the same kind of racism, lots of really bad, evil white guys as the villians, getting beat up by the heroic local kung <deleted> master. Not so much anymore. Thailand will be the same in 20 years after it grows up some more.

Is this the same Hong Kong that was ruled by the British Empire for many years & then was suddenly hurled back into the dark ages of the Chinese government, only to rebel against what the Chinese government wished to do with HK?

I don't think that this will happen in a similar way for Thailand. Mind you, my wish is that Thailand will quickly "grow up" & realise that it is a part of the dynamic cosmos, in which we all live. I actually think that Thailands' "awakening" may take quite a while. On the other hand, if the "awakening" occurs too quickly, more civil unrest may be the result. When the words "culture" & "religion" are mentioned, along with "flag waving" & the singing of a "national anthem", trouble surely follows

EDIT:

I still wish to know whether this particular movie has been unfairly censored, or not.

Edited August 15, 2008 by elkangorito

[Travel2003]

Have a look at the various periods Hollywood has gone through.

Periods where the bad people were only Russians, Germans, etc.

Then a period where the bad people were all Communists.

Then we have the period where all the bad people in the films are Arabs.

To mention a few.

You are correct. But alot of us are farangs living in Thailand and Thais are watching movies like that. Makes one wonder.

Im pretty sure they use the farangs as bad people in the movies because we are foreigners, and not because we are generally bad people.

We are here, they are aware of us, and they know a little bit about us.

To use, lets say, Mexicans, would maybe not been the best choice in a Thai movie.

That would have been the same as using Isaan people in a western film. Not many back in the west know about isaan.

Thais have already been used so many times, so I guess they look for something else from time to time.

Can I have some of what you are taking? You seriously think it is totally innocent and just random and they could have used French poodles and it would have the same meaning to Thais?

Oh Im just having a nice dose of "dont get too paranoid".

Im glad you asked, you should have some of it.

I did not say it was innocent and random.

I said they (farangs) were used because there are not many substitutes for them around.

As lannarebirth stated " We're just substitutes for aliens or "The Blob".

I think that was spot on.

[Jingthing]

After Sharks was shown, many people were afraid to go in the water.

Haven't you experienced seeing Thai kids who run away when they see a farang?

The blob indeed.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[cophen]

I realize the audience for this movie is Thai people and Thai people can and will make any kinds of movies they want, and watch any kinds of movies they want. However, I have to ask, will movies like Hanuman create more hatred and violence against farangs from Thais?

Have you actually suffered any hatred and violence from Thais? Do you any other farangs who have (apart from those sufficiently drunk and/or stupid to bring it upon themselves)?

[Jingthing]

I realize the audience for this movie is Thai people and Thai people can and will make any kinds of movies they want, and watch any kinds of movies they want. However, I have to ask, will movies like Hanuman create more hatred and violence against farangs from Thais?

Have you actually suffered any hatred and violence from Thais? Do you any other farangs who have (apart from those sufficiently drunk and/or stupid to bring it upon themselves)?

No, not violence but in some cases threats of violence, but alot of stupid stereotyping though and definitely surly unwelcome behavior. I can't know what people are thinking, so how to comment on the hatred question. Come to think of it, I have experienced what could be characterized as hatred (anti farang cursing) when I don't behave in the exact stereotypical way that the Thai person expects me to behave based on their stupid preconception about how every farang should behave. Anyway, what difference would it make anyway? One person?

Edited August 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[Travel2003]

After Sharks was shown, many people were afraid to go in the water.

Haven't you experienced seeing Thai kids who run away when they see a farang?

The blob indeed.

Good one.

[Jimjim]

From what I can perceive this is a fantastical period film, yes? I submit that it'd be much more offensive if it was set in modern times. Racism in American media is not so far in the past, either, however.

[cophen]

I realize the audience for this movie is Thai people and Thai people can and will make any kinds of movies they want, and watch any kinds of movies they want. However, I have to ask, will movies like Hanuman create more hatred and violence against farangs from Thais?

Have you actually suffered any hatred and violence from Thais? Do you any other farangs who have (apart from those sufficiently drunk and/or stupid to bring it upon themselves)?

No, not violence but in some cases threats of violence, but alot of stupid stereotyping though and definitely surly unwelcome behavior. I can't know what people are thinking, so how to comment on the hatred question. Come to think of it, I have experienced what could be characterized as hatred (anti farang cursing) when I don't behave in the exact stereotypical way that the Thai person expects me to behave based on their stupid preconception about how every farang should behave. Anyway, what difference would it make anyway? One person?

What you have written is a description of the treatment of outsiders in practically every country in the world. The fact that many people react to the stereotypes that they've been fed isn't confined to Thailand.

You ask whether Hanuman will create more hatred and violence against farangs from Thais. Do you have any evidence that hatred and violence of farangs is widespread in Thailand now (apart from the idiotic tendency that I mentioned above)?

[Jingthing]

From what I can perceive this is a fantastical period film, yes? I submit that it'd be much more offensive if it was set in modern times. Racism in American media is not so far in the past, either, however.

Nice try. It is set in the PRESENT.

[Jingthing]

Do you have any evidence that hatred and violence of farangs is widespread in Thailand now (apart from the idiotic tendency that I mentioned above)?

I don't know if you could call the Pattaya Mail evidence.

[Jingthing]

After Sharks was shown, many people were afraid to go in the water.

Haven't you experienced seeing Thai kids who run away when they see a farang?

The blob indeed.

Good one.

Ooops. I meant the movie JAWS!

Speaking of scary movies, the current running movie ROGUE about Aussie man eating crocs is really excellent!

Edited August 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

You know Jingthing, you're a real scrapper, but there are probably better fights to be fighting than this one.

My wife was born in Vietnam to Chinese parents. They were killed in the war, when she was just a baby probably by my countrymen, but she doesn't know for sure. She doesn't hate me or my countrymen for what happened FOR REAL. If she saw this movie she'd probably say that Damian boy is handsome and a good fighter, and that would be about it.

I look forward to the day when you decide to sink your teeth into something that really matters.

[dave_boo]

Racist??

You mentioned racist and Thai in the same post and did not get the topic closed, or get a ban???

The night is still young.

GuestHouse, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think you might be right. Mixing the racial stereotyping in the movie and opening up the old is farang a bad word discussion was probably ill advised. Maybe we can just focus on the stereotyping and leave the farang word discussion for another day.

If you're mixing things up, why not include the western media's inclusion of negative stereotypes when discussing all things Thai.

It's never happened to me or mine, but I hear many people here say they or their wives have been insulted with references to "Buying" them. Of course western news outlets only portray Thailand as one big whorehouse and pedophile den. Many people here refer to them as "Somchais", etc. You get my drift.

To play the devil's advocate; go get on http://images.google.com and turn off the filter. Type in "Thai", assuming that you're not at work or around childern. Shocked? No type in any other nationality. I'd bet that the disparity of 'adult' pictures presented would quickly re-enforce the stereotype that the West has of Thailand. I'm not going to get into a debate about wether that stereotype is deserved or not, or wether stereotypes are even valid.

I've never heard of any regular Westerner talking about 'buying' a Thai wife. Mainly because the majority of them don't know about sin sot. However, on the occasion that it has come up, a simple explaination of the thought process behind the tradition usually satisfies them. A reference to other cultures that have dowries (India, African nations, etc) helps. As a side note, I did not have to pay sin sot since I made it abundatly clear that if it was expected, the family could then not count on any further help. Since that further help includes making sure the brothers are in good schools, development of the land holdings, etc. the idea was entertained in their heads for all of twenty seconds.

I also wouldn't classify the usage of "Somchai" on the same level as being a racist stereotype. How many times do you see Americans referred to as "Joes"? Or Mexicans referred to as "Paco"? Unless it's specifically intended as an insult, which I can only think of one name that has come to be used that way-Mickey-it's just a harmless identifer.

[lannarebirth]

I've never heard of any regular Westerner talking about 'buying' a Thai wife. Mainly because the majority of them don't know about sin sot. However, on the occasion that it has come up, a simple explaination of the thought process behind the tradition usually satisfies them. A reference to other cultures that have dowries (India, African nations, etc) helps. As a side note, I did not have to pay sin sot since I made it abundatly clear that if it was expected, the family could then not count on any further help. Since that further help includes making sure the brothers are in good schools, development of the land holdings, etc. the idea was entertained in their heads for all of twenty seconds.

I was referring to what I've heard some people say, with the assumption being their wife was "mail order", or what ever the internet age equivalent to that is.

I also wouldn't classify the usage of "Somchai" on the same level as being a racist stereotype. How many times do you see Americans referred to as "Joes"? Or Mexicans referred to as "Paco"? Unless it's specifically intended as an insult, which I can only think of one name that has come to be used that way-Mickey-it's just a harmless identifer.

Ah. I see.

[teacup]

Here U go - the movie's poster

For those that still don't know

[GungaDin]

After Sharks was shown, many people were afraid to go in the water.

Haven't you experienced seeing Thai kids who run away when they see a farang?

The blob indeed.

Good one.

Ooops. I meant the movie JAWS!

Speaking of scary movies, the current running movie ROGUE about Aussie man eating crocs is really excellent!

Was he an out of work, baldy fireman from Perth?

Edited August 15, 2008 by GungaDin

[enyaw]

Racist??

You mentioned racist and Thai in the same post and did not get the topic closed, or get a ban???

The night is still young.

GuestHouse, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think you might be right. Mixing the racial stereotyping in the movie and opening up the old is farang a bad word discussion was probably ill advised. Maybe we can just focus on the stereotyping and leave the farang word discussion for another day.

If you're mixing things up, why not include the western media's inclusion of negative stereotypes when discussing all things Thai.

It's never happened to me or mine, but I hear many people here say they or their wives have been insulted with references to "Buying" them. Of course western news outlets only portray Thailand as one big whorehouse and pedophile den. Many people here refer to them as "Somchais", etc. You get my drift.

To play the devil's advocate; go get on http://images.google.com and turn off the filter. Type in "Thai", assuming that you're not at work or around childern. Shocked? No type in any other nationality. I'd bet that the disparity of 'adult' pictures presented would quickly re-enforce the stereotype that the West has of Thailand. I'm not going to get into a debate about wether that stereotype is deserved or not, or wether stereotypes are even valid.

I know what you mean but I don't think your google image search theory is relevant, the word Thai brings up pornographic images because of the way certain sites are tagged. If you type in "red head" for instance it brings up similar pornographic results it doesn't mean the western world regards read headed people are all a bunch of silly whores.

[kiakaha]

I can't help but giggle at the irony...wasn't there another thread recently about how thais are stereotyped in western movies I need to start selling soapboxes, I reckon I could make a fortune.

Edited August 15, 2008 by kiakaha

[12DrinkMore]

Maybe we should all go to the same hairdresser as Mavis, now that would get the kids running.

The director was certainly not Kee Niao with the black spray-on paint.

[GuestHouse]

No you need not start selling soap boxes, you've simply turned up another example of mass media used to portray stereotypical representations of a group of people/race/religion/gender.

It is far from being and Irony that this is so. Historically has had tragic repercussions and in a society that has to face the integration of newcomers (like Thailand) is an aspect of the use of Mass Media that quite rightly needs to be challenged.

As I have mentioned above, the people who made this film are educated and trained in the use of film to manipulate people's sentiment - They have not chosen these portrayals by accident.

[toptuan]

Thanks to the OP for bringing our attention to this. Movies are a pretty accurate barometer of general societal attitudes and prejudices. Disturbing.

[Alonso's Army]

Its only a movie aimed to entertain Thais between 16-35.