Thai Culture And Sarcasm

[lannarebirth]

"Hello hansum man". Case closed.

[Jingthing]

"Hello hansum man". Case closed.

Touche!!!

Actually this is an interesting case. Certainly that is real sarcasm. But what is the intention of the ladies? To hope some schlub actually believes it, yes? This is above my pay grade, if it is objectively sarcastic but the speaker does not intend it to be sarcastic, is it REALLY sarcasm? Probably not, but a good one anyway.

It certainly appears, from the majority of your posts, that you would definitely prefer to be in America as opposed to being in Thailand.

You are not very perceptive then.

I suspect you are one of those who thinks we are not supposed to be either inquisitive or critical of Thailand just because we have moved here. To me, that is mindless. I am a westerner in Thailand. I like that. I am not going to become Thai. It isn't that kind of country for most of us. It doesn't follow that I want to go back to America.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[choppychugger]

How about DAR-c-Ling..... ? Comes across as darling, but in fact is monkeys A$$

[haybilly]

"Hello hansum man". Case closed.

Touche!!!

Actually this is an interesting case. Certainly that is real sarcasm. But what is the intention of the ladies? To hope some schlub actually believes it, yes? This is above my pay grade, if it is objectively sarcastic but the speaker does not intend it to be sarcastic, is it REALLY sarcasm? Probably not, but a good one anyway.

It certainly appears, from the majority of your posts, that you would definitely prefer to be in America as opposed to being in Thailand.

You are not very perceptive then.

I suspect you are one of those who thinks we are not supposed to be either inquisitive or critical of Thailand just because we have moved here. To me, that is mindless. I am a westerner in Thailand. I like that. I am not going to become Thai. It isn't that kind of country for most of us. It doesn't follow that I want to go back to America.

I don't claim to be as perceptive as yourself--but I do find a lot of negativity and touching on anti-Thai premises in most of your posts/replies--I am far from blind to Thailand's problems and the inadequacies of the people but, as a guest I prefer to keep them to myself.

[Heng]

Actually this is an interesting case. Certainly that is real sarcasm. But what is the intention of the ladies? To hope some schlub actually believes it, yes?

They also get a good laugh about it later when you're not listening.

[technocracy]

I think the people are confusing sarcasm and cutting sarcasm. General sarcastic remarks that can be taken in a jovial manner exist in all languages. Me and my wife have make many a sarcastic comment about things and people in Lao. However when it gets to the bounds of cutting sarcastic remarks that crops up in English they just don't translate.

Example - You are doing something difficult and you obviously require help and someone asks you if you need a hand.

Sarcasm: No I am fine I'll just continue struggling on my own

Cutting Sarcasm: No I am fine you just keep sitting on your arse and keep watching

The first translates and would be understood as sarcasm the second would just come across as an insult.

The sarcastic example about being hot and skipping the sauna I've actually said something similar to her (since she goes the sauna a few times a week) and she complete understood the sarcasm implied.

[Jingthing]

I have to admit, I adore SARCASM. I am well aware as I have read it many places and also tried it out on Thais, that sarcasm and Thai culture are not a match.

Assuming you agree with this, can anyone explain why this culture is so averse to SARCASM?

At the risk of being sarcastic, why is your culture so intent on asking why Thai culture is so averse to it?

That isn't sarcastic. So who said there is no such thing as a stupid question?

Edited August 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[poshthai]

sarasm is the lowest form of wit,thats why thais dont care about it.The one thing i hate about some guys is they always want to be sarcastic and it sucks.

[Jingthing]

sarasm is the lowest form of wit,thats why thais dont care about it.The one thing i hate about some guys is they always want to be sarcastic and it sucks.

It is indeed a form of wit. I don't see why you feel you have to assign a definite relative value to it.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[Dustoff]

I know you're going to disagree that any of this is sarcasm, because you never seem to change your view, no matter how much evidence is stacked against it

Yeah but this deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinpoll..

I think I see the problem, Jingthing. They don't "get" you because you're simply not funny.

That pretty much says it.

Sarcasm, except when mutually exchanged between close friends, is simply rude - especially when hurled at citizens of a culture we will never completely understand and it is merely an indication of an inability to relate to the sensitivities of others.

My Thai wife of many years has grown to learn and cooperate with my particular brand of sarcasm but I would never think to insult her family or friends with comments which display my ignorance of their language/culture or ever think that "they just don't get it."

Get one life...

[Jingthing]

The sauna bath scenario was just an EXAMPLE, not one I have tried.

One point I continue to really think is true is that even if there is widespread sarcasm (AS WE WOULD DEFINE IT!) between Thai intimates (I remain skeptical on that as well), it is clearly NOT WIDESPREAD as part of PUBLIC LIFE, like it is in the ruder American cities like New York. I am not assigning a good/bad value to that, but how can you seriously say that is not true? Also, the DRY WIT favored more by the British and also a form of sarcasm, is that commonplace here as part of PUBLIC LIFE? I doubt it.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[DirkGently]

Without a childish penny whistle or a 'boing' sound, Thai news is pointless nonsense.

F

[Jingthing]

Without a childish penny whistle or a 'boing' sound, Thai news is pointless nonsense.

F

Did someone board the wrong bus?

[Jeddah Jo]

Also, the DRY WIT favored more by the British and also a form of sarcasm, is that commonplace here as part of PUBLIC LIFE? I doubt it.

British humour barely makes it 22 miles across the English channel. Why would you expect it to be part of Thai culture?

[Jingthing]

Also, the DRY WIT favored more by the British and also a form of sarcasm, is that commonplace here as part of PUBLIC LIFE? I doubt it.

British humour barely makes it 22 miles across the English channel. Why would you expect it to be part of Thai culture?

Who said EXPECT?

[eek]

I think the people are confusing sarcasm and cutting sarcasm. General sarcastic remarks that can be taken in a jovial manner exist in all languages. Me and my wife have make many a sarcastic comment about things and people in Lao. However when it gets to the bounds of cutting sarcastic remarks that crops up in English they just don't translate.

Example - You are doing something difficult and you obviously require help and someone asks you if you need a hand.

Sarcasm: No I am fine I'll just continue struggling on my own

Cutting Sarcasm: No I am fine you just keep sitting on your arse and keep watching

The first translates and would be understood as sarcasm the second would just come across as an insult.

The sarcastic example about being hot and skipping the sauna I've actually said something similar to her (since she goes the sauna a few times a week) and she complete understood the sarcasm implied.

I agree with you that sarcasm can be playful and fun, and can be used in a nasty way (cutting Sarcasm). I often use sarcasm on my bf (thai), and he on me. Just to be silly, not to be mean. For example, if he loads up his plate with food at a buffet I will say something like "Oh, so not feeling hungry today?", which is a pretty stupid but harmless tease about how much he has put on his plate (said with a smirk). He has a good laugh at comments like that. I cant really think of off-hand examples, but harmless sarcasm along with other types of humour is thrown into our everyday conversations based on what is happening at the time.

[katana]

If you look in a Thai dictionary, there are certainly many Thai words for 'sarcastic'. That's single words, and not definitions.

I remember once seeing a Thai girl wearing a short skirt, and her friend said to her in Thai that her dress was too long and it would be better if it was shorter. Presumably they were being sarcastic and saying the opposite of what they meant to get the point across. The girl replied "พูดปะชดเหรอ" ั (oh, you're being sarcastic are you?) while giggling and looking a little embarassed. So there was an exchange of sarcasm here which remained light-hearted because they were friends.

I think also that some of the Thai particles can be used as markers of sarcasm eg if you felt a friend was bossing you around you might use the overly polite ครับผม or เจ้าค่ะ (yes sir!) to get your point across. [Apparently เจ้าค่ะ is archaic, but can still sometimes be used in modern Thai].

I also heard that ยะ/ย่ะ can sometimes be used for sarcasm too.

eg

หรอย่ะ - Is that so?

Here the YA shows you don't necessarily really believe it.

I should add, not being a native Thai speaker am willing to be corrected on the above!

[ggutenberg]

I realize this thread is over a year old, but I have to overwhelming agree with Jingthing. This evening I got into an argument with my (ok, Laos, not Thai, but similar) gf. She was intimating that if I didn't pick her up (even though I'd given her money for a motorbike taxi) I didn't love her. A friend had borrowed my car at the time and I said to her "why don't you call [friend]. Maybe he loves you more than I do". This began the fight of all fights, and ended with her threatening to sleep with another man.

So, apparently, they don't understand sarcasm. When she got home I looked up "sarcasm" in her Laos/English dictionary and told her that that's what I was attempting... and she threw the dictionary away. Maybe this is an isolated incident, but I've had other similar (less heated) misunderstandings related to sarcasm here in LOS.

And yes, I am (or was back home anyway) a very sarcastic person. And I miss it. Also, I'm referring to English sarcasm... I don't speak Thai nearly well enough to even consider being sarcastic (or asking a woman for some milk for that matter).

[Meridian007]

Wow, this is quite old, but I think it is a good indicator of the cultural disconnect that occasionally causes so much conflict between Thais and westerners. I think both sides have complex ways of using language to imply meaning in an alternative way from the normal, direct forms of speaking.

They say that if you understand the humour within a language, you understand the language. I think this is true because to understand the language deeply, you must also understand the culture behind it.

The problem of sarcasm here is that it is only recognised within certain contexts and relationships. If it is used in a general situation, it may be mis-construed as regular speech, and interpreted literally. We understand when someone is being sarcastic instead of literal in English because we instinctively "know" the cultural hooks that redefine the meaning in that situation. I think we have a wider range of situations and relationships where we can use sarcasm in western culture than in Thai culture, so when we use it here where it is not expected, it is not understood.

That's not why I responded however, I'm more interested in the examples that Teacup gave. I don't understand where some of these would be used (in what context), and I just don't understand some of them at all!

I think it is expressions such as these that give you the keys to really understand both a language and culture, so I'd love it if Teacup could explain some of them! (I've put some of the really difficult ones in bold font)

Ok I have a few....

tok-tang-kao-san = marrying into the money

pid-mia = to commit adultery, for a man

leuumm huu leuumm ta = wake up and see the truth

sen-phom-bung-pu-khao = the truth is right before your eyes

sao-sai-hai-ga-gin = to air dirty laundry in public

etcs....

-I think it's quicker to buy aspirin myself, instead of waiting to use my 30 bths health card.

-You're not a thai teenager, if you don't worship hellokitty or sanrio.

-Middle class does not exist, there is the rich and the poor only

-You know Thai people are in a foreign land when they have on 10 layers of clothing, hats, scarves and gloves, because winter is the only season that exists outside of Thailand

-when talking to each other one person always turns their back to the other

-why the girl would choose to wear white on a rainy day

-having an unmarried daughter is just like having a toilet in front of the house

-in any "Lookthoong lakorns", there's always got to be singing

-is my house a public park, so anyone can come and go freely?

- you want to get your hands on one of those fainting medication for the nose!!! – it will solve everything

-we are not afraid of car accident because we have many budda amulets on the dash board

-You're not a rich boy, unless the spoiler on your car looks like it was made by boeing, or the exhaust pipe is big enough for your head to fit in!!

- don't stop for any pedestrians if you don't want to get bump from the back

-you are not rich unless you go to school out of the country

etcs.......

These ones are just from me tho – exclusively

-when thais aruge in public, the bystander will leave them alone

- in thailand, we are more afraid of potholes than, speed bumps

Edited October 20, 2009 by Meridian007

[geriatrickid]

oops, deleted my comment.

This thread is moldy. Sorry.

Edited October 20, 2009 by geriatrickid

[MiG16]

If you look in a Thai dictionary, there are certainly many Thai words for 'sarcastic'. That's single words, and not definitions.

I remember once seeing a Thai girl wearing a short skirt, and her friend said to her in Thai that her dress was too long and it would be better if it was shorter. Presumably they were being sarcastic and saying the opposite of what they meant to get the point across. The girl replied "พูดปะชดเหรอ" ั (oh, you're being sarcastic are you?) while giggling and looking a little embarassed. So there was an exchange of sarcasm here which remained light-hearted because they were friends.

I think also that some of the Thai particles can be used as markers of sarcasm eg if you felt a friend was bossing you around you might use the overly polite ครับผม or เจ้าค่ะ (yes sir!) to get your point across. [Apparently เจ้าค่ะ is archaic, but can still sometimes be used in modern Thai].

I also heard that ยะ/ย่ะ can sometimes be used for sarcasm too.

eg

หรอย่ะ - Is that so?

Here the YA shows you don't necessarily really believe it.

I should add, not being a native Thai speaker am willing to be corrected on the above!

comments above are all what I would consider sarcastic comments, so yes I agree with katana.

didnt read through the whole thread, but other examples cited for being sarcasm in thai - i dont agree with

but to answer the OP, yes thais can be and do adopt sarcasm when talking to each other. but my guess is its usually amongst close friends and family, rather than random people.

[sanook2me]

So farangs still don't think sarcasm is in the Thai culture however we have 2 Thais Heng and teacup

telling us it exists...

I trust the farangs call on this as they are the educated ones, so obviously know more!

Isn't this sarcasm....

Most Taxi drivers -- you speak Thai very good !

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I have lost count the number of times I've attempted sarcasm (either in English or in Thai) with Thai people over the years - not one time can I recall it having had the desired effect.

I've sometimes had to quickly explain my previous comments in case it get misinterpreted as rude/impolite... for me, it's just one of those things you learn whilst living here - don't bother using sarcasm, it just don't wash.

[mrtoad]

So farangs still don't think sarcasm is in the Thai culture however we have 2 Thais Heng and teacup

telling us it exists...

I trust the farangs call on this as they are the educated ones, so obviously know more!

Isn't this sarcasm....

Most Taxi drivers -- you speak Thai very good !

Make it three. You forgot the previous poster.

[Heng]

Make it 2. I didn't really mean it.

[mrtoad]

Make it 2. I didn't really mean it.

[Heng]

*BOING!* *BOING!* *BOING!*

[MiG16]

Make it three. You forgot the previous poster.

it has a name

[IanForbes]

Here are some English sarcastic remarks

Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence.

I feel so miserable without you, it's almost like having you here.

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.

I didn't like the play, but then I saw it under adverse conditions - the curtain was up.

The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.

The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech.

I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.

I loved those examples. They sound like something that Winston Churchill would have written. I've heard some acerbic playwright critics say much the same.

[Geekfreaklover]

Thai people generally do not have a sense of humour that is above some sad slapstick routine garnished with zanny sound effects.

Whilst in Mumbia last year I was constantly approached by taxi drivers, or taxi driver touts whilst walking down the street. When they asked me 'Where do you want to go?' (note. not 'where you go?'.) I would say somewhere far away like 'Afghanistan' and they knew that I was joking and would move along accordingly. Now if you tell a Bangkok taxi driver jokingly that you want to go to Vietnam, he will get his calculator out and start doing the sums.

Sarcasm is the best form of humour. The Thais just don't get it.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Geekfreaklover