Discovery About Udon Girlfriend's Gender

[NotNew2You]

Ive seen a couple of photos of Old Ladyboys around 70 years old in a book I just finished about the lives of Ladyboys. They just looked like old demure Thai ladies to me. Sweet smiles and kind eyes.

In addition, with modern medical technology and hormone therapies, which were unavailable to earlier generations of lady-boys, they should be able to "keep up appearances" much better and longer than their "fore-sisters."

That being said, you still have the basic issue of a person who endocrine system is biologically male, cosmetically and hormonally altered to appear feminine, still aging as a man while at the same time still attempting to outwardly appear feminine. [Did I get that right!] This can become very challenging as the aging process takes hold and would become less successful as the years progressed.

All that being said, most Thai women over 30 don't look that great either...so it's sorta pick your poison

Edited August 20, 2008 by NotNew2You

[andylee]

Do what you want to do!

Friend of mine in Pattaya, works bar, ladyboy, cant afford to get operation. Your girl is at Uni and has had it done well, that costs money, are the family wealthy?

Dont believe that you met girl in Isaan, who was your first, and a ladyboy ... how did you meet etc.

So do what you want to do. You will anyway. Why bother us with your weird ideas of Isaan girls.

Marry her or dont, UP TO YOU. Yawn

[Svenn]

You are both SO very young, 'conventional' relationships often dont pan out in the end even if started with the best intentions, so try not to think so far into the future. If you feel you have found the right mate i say just put the past behind and live life as you would with any woman. If you drift apart over the years for whatever reason, be it feeling no longer attracted or whatever, then thats just another normal factor in life and can happen in any relationship.

One thing i suggest, if you do decide to give it a shot, is to completely remove from your mind that she was ever a man. She was always a woman. Please dont use that as ammunition in an argument or as an excuse to break up later down the line. I think that would be difficult for her to handle and unfair.

I also admire Lazeeboy for being open and honest about his own experience and that he and his lady are very happy.

Again, good luck Svenn.

Yes, this is the approach I think is best.

She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more

Sorry to hear s/he is a hater.

By Thai definition, she is a katoey. So she hates herself? That is sad. She is definitely a woman in a man's body, and she fixed her body. But I think she needs counseling.

More evidence that transgender people and regular homosexuals are NOT the same thing.

I spoke to hastily, she doesn't really HATE them so much as she is not interested in them and tries to stay away from them. She really views herself as 100% woman and katoeys, at least the ones that advertise themselves a lot or lapse into being a man when they're angry, are not the type of people she identifies with. She gets up early, washes clothes, makes food, does her hair and always restrains herself, never trying to show a lot of emotion like many ladyboys or ladies do. Yes, she has zero in common with gays and actually does dislike them, maybe just because they are often a hassle in rural Isaan.

All that being said, most Thai women over 30 don't look that great either...so it's sorta pick your poison

that's actually true isn't it, good point. Once they're over 35 they do seem to look kind of bitter and tired...

[Svenn]

Do what you want to do!

Friend of mine in Pattaya, works bar, ladyboy, cant afford to get operation. Your girl is at Uni and has had it done well, that costs money, are the family wealthy?

Dont believe that you met girl in Isaan, who was your first, and a ladyboy ... how did you meet etc.

So do what you want to do. You will anyway. Why bother us with your weird ideas of Isaan girls.

Marry her or dont, UP TO YOU. Yawn

Why the hel_l would I lie on a frik'n anonymous forum? If she wasn't my first and only I assume I would have known there was something different about her when we had sex. Yes she is at uni part time and has family with money, we're both in our twenties. It's people that have narrow, stereotypical experiences in thailand, and assume everyone else must too, that we should be yawning at.

[andylee]

Do you love her? or Are you worried about what she will look like in 10 or 20 years? Ladyboys are normal in Thailand. Thais dont have issues. What do you want from the forum?

Gays are a hassle in rural Isaan? Not here, the one in our village is a good bloke (yes he is the only...etc etc, but we are only a small village).

If you are happy, marry her. If you want people to know, talk to everyone about it, if you dont ...dont!

[andylee]

How did you meet then?

[Heng]

I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

There is a famous one on TV, she also does freelance as a makeup artist (makes a fairly nice living doing so), and did the makeup for the wife and some of her gal pals for the morning ceremony of my wedding. An excellent makeup artist, but IMO a rather moody and somewhat unbalanced individual. She took an hour getting into the "mood" to do makeup, all the while chain smoking and complaining about everything in the world it seemed... like a bitter expat.

[duceahearts]

maybe 2 or 3 years ago the BBC ran a series called "Bangkok Bound" each episode was 2 or 3 stories about people connected in some way to Thailand, one such story was about a guy who like the poster met a girl who turned out to be a guy, anyway, end of story was they stayed together and ran a bar in some tourist area of Thailand both very happy, if it feels right then do it.

[BigSnake]

So, what's your problem?? You say there is no Hard feelings toward her(?) She was honest enough to tell you the truth, which is a bit on the rear side for most Thai lover. No I don't think you are stupid; of all the hormones changes that you say he when thru it would have been difficult for a season pro to know the prior gender. My guess and best wish is this a Blessing in disguise for you. Best of Luck!!

[JOATMON]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

[Svenn]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

I knew about these things, I just assumed she had some medical condition, like she told me, that stopped periods (premature menopause or something, I don't know). With getting wet, I actually didn't know that much about that, and just assumed her body didn't give out a lot of water or something. I'm a nerd, not a ladies' man or frequenter of brothels, so I wasn't as keen on these things as other guys my age. I'm not alone, lazeeboy had the same experience, it's easy to hide these things.

[CRUNCHER]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

Finally someone has caught on. ...and for my next post - "whoes that clip clopping over my bridge?"

[fruity]

.

that's actually true isn't it, good point. Once they're over 35 they do seem to look kind of bitter and tired...

Well my wifes over 35 & she looks neither bitter nor tired!

Fact; irregardless of any cosmetic changes, your 'girlfriend' is a man, a very, very effiminate man, but a man non the less.

As has been said, your entire relationship is based on deciet. On the other side of the coin; IF at sometime in the future, you had a son (obviously not with your 'present' partner:) AND he came to you one day & told you he was gay; what would you do? Stop loving & caring for your child & disown him?

[madjbs]

any post which isn't insanely boring is apparently a troll here. As someone pointed out, these things really happen, so it makes not one bit of difference if this particular OP is real or not.

[bina]

where is bambina when needed... a post op transgender lady veterinarian.... as far as im concerned, she is a she...

just a short story: my daughter has a friend from back in high school who considered herself as a boy; she changed her name, dressed as a metrosexual male, started taking hormones, and is now going to the states to do a breast removal... when she /he comes to visit, it already seems totatlly natural to remember that y. is a he. and in our language male or female is defined. there is no ambiguous 'it', and he uses the masculine form of speech. so he is now a he. not sure about what he will do with army service here though...

funny and witty, and sarcastic as a male, as he was as a girl in high school. just happier.

bina

israel

[balo]

I smell a troll............

[cophen]

where is bambina when needed... a post op transgender lady veterinarian.... as far as im concerned, she is a she...

Has she left for the Netherlands yet?

[0Mix1up]

sure anything can happen so this story is not unbelievable.

obvious prejudices and some fictitious aspects to your story

if not t---l then naive is the best i can say

[OlRedEyes]

Asking for advice about a situation like this on any internet forum is totally useless. Rather predictable, the range of views you will get expressed, don't you think? From the bleeding heart to the rough and ready.

What others think will in the end have no bearing on your situation. Only you can figure out how you feel after a lot of introspection.

You know the positives, like she came clean about it etc. You know the negatives, like she cannot have children etc.

What you now need is time to make sense of it all. Not a decision to be forced. Let it sink in, it will process. You'll know what to do in a while.

[Heng]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

Not hard to simulate being aroused. Pre-applied water based lubricant. Basically like what a lot of massage parlour girls do to sustain that "I'm aroused" feeling despite this being the 5th different customer today.

Period... some go as far as disposing of "used/bloodied" (with chicken or other whatever meat product is in the freezer) sanitary napkins in the bathroom trash bin once in awhile to simulate having a period.

As for ID cards, ever have a fake ID back in the day? Just as easy here.

[bergen]

Asking for advice about a situation like this on any internet forum is totally useless. Rather predictable, the range of views you will get expressed, don't you think? From the bleeding heart to the rough and ready.

What others think will in the end have no bearing on your situation. Only you can figure out how you feel after a lot of introspection.

You know the positives, like she came clean about it etc. You know the negatives, like she cannot have children etc.

What you now need is time to make sense of it all. Not a decision to be forced. Let it sink in, it will process. You'll know what to do in a while.

Sensible post

[lifeisrandom]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

Not hard to simulate being aroused. Pre-applied water based lubricant. Basically like what a lot of massage parlour girls do to sustain that "I'm aroused" feeling despite this being the 5th different customer today.

Period... some go as far as disposing of "used/bloodied" (with chicken or other whatever meat product is in the freezer) sanitary napkins in the bathroom trash bin once in awhile to simulate having a period.

As for ID cards, ever have a fake ID back in the day? Just as easy here.

jesus, this is scarier than the last Halloween movie.

sometimes i see thai guys (who dont look gay in terms of their appearence or attire or body language) with a ladyboy who is obviously a ladyboy and i always wonder whether he is gay or simply thinks that she looks better than his potential girl friends. I dont understand why a gay person would want to have a ladyboy as a girl friend/boy friend - if they are attracted to men wouldn't they want to have a partner that looks like a man?

[OxfordWill]

looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc? Some things i can absolutely confirm for you:

1) this happens often!

2) you're not stupid

3) your feelings for her should not change because of this

4) the way in which she revealed her past to you was a VERY good indication of her (good) character.

Ask yourself if it really matters anyway? There are two practical considerations:

1) She will not age well, and by that I do not mean just looks, also personality can be affected if she is not careful with her hormone intake, you can get very good advice in bangkok hospitals.

2) I know one couple such as yourselves who adopted one child and then used a surrogate mother for a second, as the father really wanted a genetic child.

Whatever you do, don't much a rushed decision. If you value the current academic brilliance on this issue (and you should) you can rest assured that opinion weighs heavily on the side of such people having a biological cause, and not a psychological one, at the root of their desire/feeling to be female. so your "wrong organ" remark is actually quite on the money.

[Brigante7]

I've browsed thaivisa for a while without posting, thinking I'd never be had like those other imbiciles on the forums, until a few weeks ago. The title of my post says it all and I don't want to elaborate on it because it still makes me sick to think about it; but it should be sufficient to say that she had had a full operation before I met her. If you care to read my story below, I think you will find it is unique from others, so please no cliche snappy responses, I seek genuine thoughts. The main thing I want advice for now is just how common this is and if I'm alone or not:

I met her in Isaan 2 years ago and I knew some Lao already from college, we met far from any bar or tourist place... so this discovery came as a huge suprise to me, something I thought only happens to old codgers is Pattaya or BKK. Thing is I'm in my mid twenties, she's a university student, and I had never slept with anyone before her, and even if I had, I don't think I would have percieved her former gender- she's really beautiful and the operation apparently very skillful... on top of that, she took hormones.

The thing that's different about my story I think is that there's no hard feelings between us, it's just straight up sad and confusing. She never once asked for money and she has the sweetest heart, we've been to 6 other Asian countries together over the 2 years and had all the characteristics of a normal, very close relationship, even if it was long-distance at time. I may be young and naive but I'm not a social idiot like others farangs, so I just ask you to take at face value that she never cheated on me, so PLEASE- no rants about how she must be a secret bargirl with many boyfriends or something.

She had always hidden her passport from me, her one ID, because she said her photo in it was really embarrassing... finally one night a few weeks ago out of the blue, she got down on her knees, started crying, bowed her head down, and handed me the passport like she was making an offer to a monk... and I looked inside.

I'm not angry at her from witholding this info from me, I pity her more than anything- all she's wanted in her very hard life is to have a normal relationship with a normal boy who wasn't some sicko old guy that had a thing for katoeys. I too hadn't had much success with girls back in the USA. She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more, she says that she was always a girl, and felt so since she was 5. I'm no liberal, in fact I'm kind of socially conservative and previously didn't have much respect for transgender issues. But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something. On the other hand, part of my love for her has stopped now and I'm sad, and I told her I'm not sure I could ever marry her, especially since I want kids someday. But constancy and the status quo are what I confide in, so I've told her for now I can still support her (we have been building a small cheap house together outside Udon (at my request and initiative guys, not hers)) and I'll keep meeting with her for a few years, and we'll take it from there.

Why do you keep saying she? I can fully understand falling for the deceit, that's what it is, but she is a he, always has been and always will be, sorry to be blunt. It's almost as bad as somebody who is gay and gets married and has kids then 10 years down the road tells there wife/husband they are gay and always will be and their whole life was a lie, and before anybody asks, no that didn't happen to me but it did happen to somebody I know, destroyed their family.

[Brigante7]

It is between your ears, YOUR ears.

If SHE, and I do mean SHE hadn't told you, nothing would have changed. Correct?

But she did, now does that make her a bad, or a better person?

So what has changed now? What is the thought that you cannot handle? What is different all of a sudden, everything she had you liked, and enjoyed each other and you had good times, and now....

You pity her? For what, for making changes to herself to make her life complete? What is there to pity?

You feel she is a a 100% girl, so what is wrong ? Because she cannot have kids?

Does another woman guarantee that she can?? There is no guarantee for nothing, as you should know by now.

You will keep meeting with her for a few years.....and you will take it from there... What will you take from there?? Not loving her anymore? Pitying her?

What has changed you ask? What has changed is that he doesn't want to have sex with a man, I'm guessing he isn't gay.

[Heng]

The more I read the more I doubt the story is actually true. How do you go through to you 20's without knowing that a girl gets wet when aroused? Or has a period? This seems like a troll to me.

Not hard to simulate being aroused. Pre-applied water based lubricant. Basically like what a lot of massage parlour girls do to sustain that "I'm aroused" feeling despite this being the 5th different customer today.

Period... some go as far as disposing of "used/bloodied" (with chicken or other whatever meat product is in the freezer) sanitary napkins in the bathroom trash bin once in awhile to simulate having a period.

As for ID cards, ever have a fake ID back in the day? Just as easy here.

jesus, this is scarier than the last Halloween movie.

sometimes i see thai guys (who dont look gay in terms of their appearence or attire or body language) with a ladyboy who is obviously a ladyboy and i always wonder whether he is gay or simply thinks that she looks better than his potential girl friends. I dont understand why a gay person would want to have a ladyboy as a girl friend/boy friend - if they are attracted to men wouldn't they want to have a partner that looks like a man?

I think the locals generally can tell... there are only a few in the class of say n'Poy or that Korean model Hirasu (who incidentally is looking manlier than in "her" younger years). So you can probably draw the appropriate conclusions. As for farangs and sometimes other non-Asian nationalities with these gals, I'd say it's a 50-50 guess either way.... some know and are gay, some clearly do not and are being tricked, like the OP. It's easier to identify any number of traits when you're dealing with your own race (or have lived in areas where a particular trait is more common). I think it's pretty easy to pick out sorority gals and strippers, but the typical Asian tourist in the west probably wouldn't have a clue.

[FrugalTurtle]

Good Post!

I can't help but feel sad for the both of you. You need to take some alone time and sit down to do some deep thinking about Life, Love and the pursuit of Happiness. Where is your heart? Where is her heart? do you think your hearts will be in the same place 5, 10, 20 years from now? Kids are easy, just adopt. Find a child you would like to give a better life to. From your post you seem to be a fairly decent human. If you can't find your answer I suggest leaving for a year or so, after which when you return if the love is there then you know. Maybe you'll never return, but then you are not keeping her from trying to find her love. Remember your heart is not the only one.

Good Luck to you what ever you decide!

[jts-khorat]

A LOT of farangs out there either can't tell or are trying out something new. I tend to think it's more of the former.

Maybe those that cannot tell really DO NOT WANT to see what is right in front of their eyes. I would submit the thought that it will impossible to not get a clue after living with a person for months (a totally different situation to being totally drunk and getting sober the next morning, and even then I find it a bit unbelievable).

In this case the OP really needs to go on a little soul searching if he was not a little bit self-delusional and really got what he wanted.

[Svenn]

Good Post!

I can't help but feel sad for the both of you. You need to take some alone time and sit down to do some deep thinking about Life, Love and the pursuit of Happiness. Where is your heart? Where is her heart? do you think your hearts will be in the same place 5, 10, 20 years from now? Kids are easy, just adopt. Find a child you would like to give a better life to. From your post you seem to be a fairly decent human. If you can't find your answer I suggest leaving for a year or so, after which when you return if the love is there then you know. Maybe you'll never return, but then you are not keeping her from trying to find her love. Remember your heart is not the only one.

Good Luck to you what ever you decide!

Thanks this is good to hear. I think time alone is best and that's what we're doing. I do often forget that my heart is not the only one and she would want to find someone else if she has to. I only worry that with her situation she'd never find anyone decent, unless she choose to hide her past from them like she did with me. I've heard from others that blatant ladyboys tend to have unstable lives with boyfriends who come and go, and I'd almost prefer that she remain single waiting for me rather than experience that. She hinted to me on that unpleasant night that she would be open to that, saying she understands if I want to leave and that she'll only ever follow me in life, ... but limiting her like that seems kind of cruel at the same time.

[blue eyes]

You love her,she told you,you still love her,you can adopt,she looks and acts like so much like a woman that no one can tell,so what is the problem?She may cost you more in the fact that you will have to buy lube.But other then that cost is the same.Enjoy your life.