Buying A House With Wife

[phaethon]

I had already posted a curiosity thread in the Bangkok forum about why, in a country where land ownership is forbidden to foreigners, I don't hear of thriving farang communities on the rivers and khlongs (as we have here in London where land ownership is forbidden for many by price).

But I also wonder why there isn't a huge market in what we call static caravans (US - trailers)?

These are around 12 x 4m, can be doubled up, sited on foundations with all utilities including aircon and can be removed from land in the event of a split, limiting losses to just the cost of the land (and the price of a small hired army of thugs with a truck to carry out the removal). The unit(s) can then be sold to the next pair of newlyweds with their own empty plot

Presumably TGs would just veto the plan outright (not a real house meaning 'I don't get to keep it')

Just thinkin...

[subseasteve]

If you give any thing to a Thai person you have to accept that it is gone, so if you can do this and accept there is a chance you will lose it then go ahead, but really man there must be a better way than to be in a relationship worrying the whole time if she is scheming you, .............did you think about putting the land in her name and the house in yours and drawing up a long term lease from her for the land? Or go company way with Thai share holders.

[dave_boo]

Divorce law states 50/50....why worry

What the law says and what is applied can be two, almost criminally, different things......

[dsfbrit]

What you SPEND in Thailand STAYS in Thailand

Get that in your head and you will be a happy camper for the rest of your stay

HEAR HEAR!!

I have given my Thai lady a total of around 800k THB for the purchase of the land and construction of the house in which she now lives, and in which I shall be living with her when I move out to Thailand from the UK at the end of October.

800 baht - for land and house in Thailand. How did you manage that !!! I can only admire your achievement!

Not everyone lives in an area that has 2 million THB/rai land prices. In fact, it'd be hard to even kill 1/4 of that budget buying land where I have my house.

I don't wish to be rude, and I say this 'tongue-in-cheque', but this reminds of the beginning of the Monty Python sketch of 'luxury - I lived in a shoe box with 10 others eating nothing but mud..' or words to that effect.

Not everyone defines their life by how big of a house they can build. There apparently are others like me that understand the score in Thailand and realise that attempting to be the biggest swinging pen!s in the area by having the most grandiose accomodations (we call it keeping up with the Jonses in the States) leads to nothing but unhappiness. If you lose your wife, either through death or stupidity and don't have the house set up properly what is going to happen to your 'mansion'? If you have the asset set up properly and the government decides that they don't want foreigners owning homes anymore what happens to your 'mansion'?

I would respectfully suggest, that when most farang talk about being concerned about losing property assets in Thailand, its for a bit more than 800k Baht!!.

Ah, well that's the crux of the matter. Those who are content with their 800k or less investment have already realised that it isn't much for them to walk away from. Should things go terribly wrong what's that small amount going to matter?

Many thanks for your comments, dave_boo, which echo my sentiments entirely. "My" Thai house is, in fact, a modest bungalow off the ex-pat track in Rayong province - and certainly not a gated "millionaires' row" mansion with Keep Out signs in English & Thai like I saw near Pattaya on my last Thai visit at Songkran. It has all the creature comforts which I need for a satisfying day-to-day existence. And my lady is more than capable of serving up something rather more substantial than mud at mealtimes without causing the (i.e. my) bank to be busted

Dear Dear Dear I think its sad that my comments could encourage this type of stereotyping phobic nonsense as a reply.

To remind you of what the OP posted:

' I will be buying a house with my new wife shortly, 50% Mortgage through SCB, the other 50% paid by me and I will be guarantor on her mortgage application and will be making the repayments. I'm aware I will have to waive my rights to the land ownership but is there somewhere that will confirm that I am the owner of the house?'

This guy, like me, has decided to invest a large proportion of his savings and future income in Thailand. He is concerned about this and has asked for advice.

I was trying to say in a 'light hearted' way, that you on the other hand OJAS have not done this at all.

As you stated in a previous post '...I would then have my current mortgage-free house in the UK - which I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of selling - to return to.'

So you have kept nearly all your assets in the UK and have simply 'invested' the price of a new pick up truck in your new life in Thailand.

For you to say you can walk away from this is not surprising as your risk is so small. It fact some unkind folk might even say its an extreme case of 'stating the bl**ding' obvious.

In fact to someone as wealthy as you, in percentage terms its small change.

This is not the same for all of us. Certainly not the OP.

This is a valid point and its curious you think its one that only people that are rather well endowed in the groin area are capable of making.

By the way, I would just say that your boasting of your ability to eat 'something more substantial than mud at mealtimes' is a luxury

Edited August 30, 2008 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

I agree that in all countries the law's can be changed not just in Los But if we are only looking for a little protection in the case of your spouse dieing before you then at the moment this law of 1 year still gives you that. If you have a good loving relationship with your wife and you both decide to sell the property to say move to another part of Thailand then you end your usufruct in order to sell. When or if you buy another property you can again setup a new lifetime usufruct with a new will. The land office in different parts of Thailand may have Different Ideas of the law or just one man in that office so you have to go with what your lawyer can do or get for you at this office. It all depends on how long you want to live in that property, I have lived in my house now for over 8 years and the cost of our house was less than 1 mill but its worth more now in value but very hard to sell in this climate. I could easy walk away from this property if I wanted to as I think Its paid for itself in all the rent I have saved before and in the future. I would also say that my wife deserves the house for all the years of looking after me The only reason I had to setup my usufruct was to protect myself from other family members in the unlikey event of my wife passing away before me. Now if the laws did change in the future then I am sure we would find another way around, I don't have any children but my oldest brother"s children are half Thai so I could put our property in there name. There is never a 100% sure way to secure a property in this country but you can only do what you can. That's why we should not invest in property because its not an investment only a home to live in so only buy what you can easily walk away from or just rent.

Regards

Scotsman

I agree with all of that. Especially the bits highlighted. Its the 'walking away' part that is an issue in my head at the moment.

Since Sunbelt said I cannot put the house in my name I have been thinking long and hard. I know it does not make much difference legally if the the house is in my name, but if the family do become the owners of the Usufruct for some reason, at least they wont feel they own the house as well. I have discussed this with my wife as well, and she agrees that her family (they are poor and live in Issan) would not really understand the subtlety of a Usufruct. If they owned the house and land they would find it odd they could not 'use it' in some way!!!

IMHO, Its not about the value of the house thats important is it, its the percentage of my savings that it represents that is what I am focussing on. I have to feel I can 'walk away' from this house in the future if I am to sign the Usufruct.

With the company route, for all its bad points, I would never have to walk away from anything - mind you it may be taken away instead

Thanks for debate, its helped me with my decision making process, I hope it was some use to the OP as well.

Edited August 30, 2008 by dsfbrit

[poldebol]

I had already posted a curiosity thread in the Bangkok forum about why, in a country where land ownership is forbidden to foreigners, I don't hear of thriving farang communities on the rivers and khlongs (as we have here in London where land ownership is forbidden for many by price).

But I also wonder why there isn't a huge market in what we call static caravans (US - trailers)?

These are around 12 x 4m, can be doubled up, sited on foundations with all utilities including aircon and can be removed from land in the event of a split, limiting losses to just the cost of the land (and the price of a small hired army of thugs with a truck to carry out the removal). The unit(s) can then be sold to the next pair of newlyweds with their own empty plot

Presumably TGs would just veto the plan outright (not a real house meaning 'I don't get to keep it')

Just thinkin...

Let me know if you ever know of someone importing them. I have been lookign for a good quality prefab house, but forget it. It seems when you want to build a house here and neither your nor your wife knows a thing about building you have the choice between

an expat advisor or Thai architect who snub you down if you do not want three jacuzzis and a high tech fence around your "estate"

a Thai builder who has never heard of roof insulation (no joke) but knows exactly what the farang wants (included the 30% Farang Added Value) and does not see the need for a bathroom floor to slope towards the drain

buying a condo where you will be at the mercy of the majority of shareholders or the building company or whoever, who think quality control, keeping promises and the interests of the owners are obscene terms.

Has anyone really tried to import something of quality to live in? I have seen a beautiful building that seems to be made of the same material containers for cooled transport are made of. ANy info on this?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Hi,

Stuart

Sorry Stuart, can't help you. But it's got me thinking with so many farangs buying houses for their mrs', and all the associated headaches and heartaches, why doesn't someone start a houseboat business here, could be on the chao phraya, mekong, ocean wherever. No land issues. Good fishing.

Probably said in jest but hey...not a bad idea ! Imagine you could get a pretty nice Teak rice barge all converted to high standards for 500,000 baht. Where would your permanent mooring be though ?

This sounds like a great idea to me if you could come up with a reasonable place to moor it. A place where you could lease a bit of land and put up a inexspensive building for storage.

But it isn't getting much attention here perhaps a new thread??

[Twiggy44]

I really think it depends on your financial situation, If you are gonna blow your lifes savings on a house in Thailand then struggle to survive, I'd say don't do it.

If on the other hand you are able to walk away from a house and carry on with your life as normal, then why not go for it.

We have all heard the stories of Farangs getting ripped off by Thai women, yet there are also stories of Thai women spending the best years of their lives with Farangs in rented accomodation who get dumped for a younger women eventually and are left with nothing.

This country does not have the welfare system to help these women out, the Farang can just walk away and carry on as usual, leaving his partner of sometimes many years, destitute.

It works both ways, but Farangs have passports enabling them to move back to their home countries where at least they have some rights to benefits/ handouts from the state etc etc, in Thailand things are different.

I have a very nice house that isn't in my name, no company ownership, do I care ? No, or I wouldn't be in that situation in the first place.

Could I afford to walk away and still have a very nice life ? Yep, that's why I'm in the situation I'm in.

Of course if you're struggling on a pittance in Thailand, your views will be different to mine.

Your right man...not all Thai woman that bad.Maybe the Thai woman back ground can also be the reason why they are like that...I have a case like this we are not married he bought a house and lot under my name.And it's not just 1 house it's 2 houses that has a huge amount. No black and white writtings,things never work as what we had planned and we need to separate ways....The houses?? it's his houses not mine...I'm ready to sign the transfer of ownership anytime w/o any conditions...and we did keep the relationship...as a very good friend...

[scotsman]

I agree that in all countries the law's can be changed not just in Los But if we are only looking for a little protection in the case of your spouse dieing before you then at the moment this law of 1 year still gives you that. If you have a good loving relationship with your wife and you both decide to sell the property to say move to another part of Thailand then you end your usufruct in order to sell. When or if you buy another property you can again setup a new lifetime usufruct with a new will. The land office in different parts of Thailand may have Different Ideas of the law or just one man in that office so you have to go with what your lawyer can do or get for you at this office. It all depends on how long you want to live in that property, I have lived in my house now for over 8 years and the cost of our house was less than 1 mill but its worth more now in value but very hard to sell in this climate. I could easy walk away from this property if I wanted to as I think Its paid for itself in all the rent I have saved before and in the future. I would also say that my wife deserves the house for all the years of looking after me The only reason I had to setup my usufruct was to protect myself from other family members in the unlikey event of my wife passing away before me. Now if the laws did change in the future then I am sure we would find another way around, I don't have any children but my oldest brother"s children are half Thai so I could put our property in there name. There is never a 100% sure way to secure a property in this country but you can only do what you can. That's why we should not invest in property because its not an investment only a home to live in so only buy what you can easily walk away from or just rent.

Regards

Scotsman

I agree with all of that. Especially the bits highlighted. Its the 'walking away' part that is an issue in my head at the moment.

Since Sunbelt said I cannot put the house in my name I have been thinking long and hard. I know it does not make much difference legally if the the house is in my name, but if the family do become the owners of the Usufruct for some reason, at least they wont feel they own the house as well. I have discussed this with my wife as well, and she agrees that her family (they are poor and live in Issan) would not really understand the subtlety of a Usufruct. If they owned the house and land they would find it odd they could not 'use it' in some way!!!

IMHO, Its not about the value of the house thats important is it, its the percentage of my savings that it represents that is what I am focussing on. I have to feel I can 'walk away' from this house in the future if I am to sign the Usufruct.

With the company route, for all its bad points, I would never have to walk away from anything - mind you it may be taken away instead

Thanks for debate, its helped me with my decision making process, I hope it was some use to the OP as well.

If you have the usufruct in your name & land & house in your wife's then the property is not owned by your wife's family its your wife's. The family cant become the owners of your usufruct its in your name for life. If your wife has left you the property in a legal will and should pass away before you, then again its not the family's property its yours for 1 year until you can sell it or change it into some other Thai person that is the law right now.

If you find you can't just walk away from the property in the future if there is a split between you and your wife, then you would still keep your property in a company and take the gamble that the gov would not take it off you in the future. I don't think in a Divorce you would get a 50/50 split in the case of the land of your spouse, as its there land bought with there money and you have to sign away all your claim to it. I do hope that I have helped you and the op its been a good thread.

regards

Scotsman

[OJAS]

What you SPEND in Thailand STAYS in Thailand

Get that in your head and you will be a happy camper for the rest of your stay

HEAR HEAR!!

I have given my Thai lady a total of around 800k THB for the purchase of the land and construction of the house in which she now lives, and in which I shall be living with her when I move out to Thailand from the UK at the end of October.

800 baht - for land and house in Thailand. How did you manage that !!! I can only admire your achievement!

Not everyone lives in an area that has 2 million THB/rai land prices. In fact, it'd be hard to even kill 1/4 of that budget buying land where I have my house.

I don't wish to be rude, and I say this 'tongue-in-cheque', but this reminds of the beginning of the Monty Python sketch of 'luxury - I lived in a shoe box with 10 others eating nothing but mud..' or words to that effect.

Not everyone defines their life by how big of a house they can build. There apparently are others like me that understand the score in Thailand and realise that attempting to be the biggest swinging pen!s in the area by having the most grandiose accomodations (we call it keeping up with the Jonses in the States) leads to nothing but unhappiness. If you lose your wife, either through death or stupidity and don't have the house set up properly what is going to happen to your 'mansion'? If you have the asset set up properly and the government decides that they don't want foreigners owning homes anymore what happens to your 'mansion'?

I would respectfully suggest, that when most farang talk about being concerned about losing property assets in Thailand, its for a bit more than 800k Baht!!.

Ah, well that's the crux of the matter. Those who are content with their 800k or less investment have already realised that it isn't much for them to walk away from. Should things go terribly wrong what's that small amount going to matter?

Many thanks for your comments, dave_boo, which echo my sentiments entirely. "My" Thai house is, in fact, a modest bungalow off the ex-pat track in Rayong province - and certainly not a gated "millionaires' row" mansion with Keep Out signs in English & Thai like I saw near Pattaya on my last Thai visit at Songkran. It has all the creature comforts which I need for a satisfying day-to-day existence. And my lady is more than capable of serving up something rather more substantial than mud at mealtimes without causing the (i.e. my) bank to be busted

Dear Dear Dear I think its sad that my comments could encourage this type of stereotyping phobic nonsense as a reply.

To remind you of what the OP posted:

' I will be buying a house with my new wife shortly, 50% Mortgage through SCB, the other 50% paid by me and I will be guarantor on her mortgage application and will be making the repayments. I'm aware I will have to waive my rights to the land ownership but is there somewhere that will confirm that I am the owner of the house?'

This guy, like me, has decided to invest a large proportion of his savings and future income in Thailand. He is concerned about this and has asked for advice.

I was trying to say in a 'light hearted' way, that you on the other hand OJAS have not done this at all.

As you stated in a previous post '...I would then have my current mortgage-free house in the UK - which I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of selling - to return to.'

So you have kept nearly all your assets in the UK and have simply 'invested' the price of a new pick up truck in your new life in Thailand.

For you to say you can walk away from this is not surprising as your risk is so small. It fact some unkind folk might even say its an extreme case of 'stating the bl**ding' obvious.

In fact to someone as wealthy as you, in percentage terms its small change.

This is not the same for all of us. Certainly not the OP.

This is a valid point and its curious you think its one that only people that are rather well endowed in the groin area are capable of making.

By the way, I would just say that your boasting of your ability to eat 'something more substantial than mud at mealtimes' is a luxury

If you choose to put all of your eggs into the Thai basket, dsfbrit, that is, of course, your business and not mine. But kindly spare the patronising lectures to those of us who choose not to follow this course of action.

"In fact to someone as wealthy as you.." - on what basis do you make the assumption that I am wealthy? If only I were

"..you think its one that only people that are rather well endowed in the groin area.." - kindly point out where I myself referred explicitly to the "groin area" as you like to call it in my posting. Looks like you have aimed at the wrong target here

".. your boasting of your ability to eat 'something more substantial than mud at mealtimes' is a luxury" - did you think that I was suggesting that my staple diet in Thailand will be caviar and rice? If so, you are sadly mistaken - fried fish/chicken and rice will be as good as it gets

[Gary A]

This old debate goes on and on. There is always someone who has a better idea and a new scheme how to own property. The bottom line is that you will NEVER legally own property in Thailand. It is usually accepted now that the number one rule is to NOT spend more than you can walk away from. Unfortunately some are ignoring the important rule number two and that is to never be worth more dead than alive. Some poor souls who ignored that rule no longer have to worry about that either. Nearly every farang murder here in Thailand is related to money and property. My life is worth more to me than a piece of property that I can easily do without. My Thai wife's happiness is also important to me. If she decides at some point that she no longer wants to live with a crotchety old fart, I will pack my bags and be out of her life. The happiness she has given me this far is worth everything I have given her.

[billd766]

This old debate goes on and on. There is always someone who has a better idea and a new scheme how to own property. The bottom line is that you will NEVER legally own property in Thailand. It is usually accepted now that the number one rule is to NOT spend more than you can walk away from. Unfortunately some are ignoring the important rule number two and that is to never be worth more dead than alive. Some poor souls who ignored that rule no longer have to worry about that either. Nearly every farang murder here in Thailand is related to money and property. My life is worth more to me than a piece of property that I can easily do without. My Thai wife's happiness is also important to me. If she decides at some point that she no longer wants to live with a crotchety old fart, I will pack my bags and be out of her life. The happiness she has given me this far is worth everything I have given her.

I second that in spades.

At 64 I have figured out that whatever I own in this life isn't going to come with me when I die.

I want my wife and son to have it when I am gone.

The happiness she has given me is only excelled by the joy that our son gives me.

[OJAS]

This old debate goes on and on. There is always someone who has a better idea and a new scheme how to own property. The bottom line is that you will NEVER legally own property in Thailand. It is usually accepted now that the number one rule is to NOT spend more than you can walk away from. Unfortunately some are ignoring the important rule number two and that is to never be worth more dead than alive. Some poor souls who ignored that rule no longer have to worry about that either. Nearly every farang murder here in Thailand is related to money and property. My life is worth more to me than a piece of property that I can easily do without. My Thai wife's happiness is also important to me. If she decides at some point that she no longer wants to live with a crotchety old fart, I will pack my bags and be out of her life. The happiness she has given me this far is worth everything I have given her.

I second that in spades.

At 64 I have figured out that whatever I own in this life isn't going to come with me when I die.

I want my wife and son to have it when I am gone.

The happiness she has given me is only excelled by the joy that our son gives me.

I wholeheartedly third your sentiments, billd766 and Gary A. I, too, am a grumpy old git who will shortly be retiring to Thailand to settle with his Thai beloved. Since life has thrown many tough challenges at her and her family over the years, I would certainly not begrudge them the house come the time to bid farewell (whatever form that might take).

Edited September 4, 2008 by OJAS

[zorro1]

What you SPEND in Thailand STAYS in Thailand

Get that in your head and you will be a happy camper for the rest of your stay

HEAR HEAR!!

I have given my Thai lady a total of around 800k THB for the purchase of the land and construction of the house in which she now lives, and in which I shall be living with her when I move out to Thailand from the UK at the end of October.

800 baht - for land and house in Thailand. How did you manage that !!! I can only admire your achievement!

Not everyone lives in an area that has 2 million THB/rai land prices. In fact, it'd be hard to even kill 1/4 of that budget buying land where I have my house.

I don't wish to be rude, and I say this 'tongue-in-cheque', but this reminds of the beginning of the Monty Python sketch of 'luxury - I lived in a shoe box with 10 others eating nothing but mud..' or words to that effect.

Not everyone defines their life by how big of a house they can build. There apparently are others like me that understand the score in Thailand and realise that attempting to be the biggest swinging pen!s in the area by having the most grandiose accomodations (we call it keeping up with the Jonses in the States) leads to nothing but unhappiness. If you lose your wife, either through death or stupidity and don't have the house set up properly what is going to happen to your 'mansion'? If you have the asset set up properly and the government decides that they don't want foreigners owning homes anymore what happens to your 'mansion'?

I would respectfully suggest, that when most farang talk about being concerned about losing property assets in Thailand, its for a bit more than 800k Baht!!.

Ah, well that's the crux of the matter. Those who are content with their 800k or less investment have already realised that it isn't much for them to walk away from. Should things go terribly wrong what's that small amount going to matter?

Many thanks for your comments, dave_boo, which echo my sentiments entirely. "My" Thai house is, in fact, a modest bungalow off the ex-pat track in Rayong province - and certainly not a gated "millionaires' row" mansion with Keep Out signs in English & Thai like I saw near Pattaya on my last Thai visit at Songkran. It has all the creature comforts which I need for a satisfying day-to-day existence. And my lady is more than capable of serving up something rather more substantial than mud at mealtimes without causing the (i.e. my) bank to be busted

Dear Dear Dear I think its sad that my comments could encourage this type of stereotyping phobic nonsense as a reply.

To remind you of what the OP posted:

' I will be buying a house with my new wife shortly, 50% Mortgage through SCB, the other 50% paid by me and I will be guarantor on her mortgage application and will be making the repayments. I'm aware I will have to waive my rights to the land ownership but is there somewhere that will confirm that I am the owner of the house?'

This guy, like me, has decided to invest a large proportion of his savings and future income in Thailand. He is concerned about this and has asked for advice.

I was trying to say in a 'light hearted' way, that you on the other hand OJAS have not done this at all.

As you stated in a previous post '...I would then have my current mortgage-free house in the UK - which I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of selling - to return to.'

So you have kept nearly all your assets in the UK and have simply 'invested' the price of a new pick up truck in your new life in Thailand.

For you to say you can walk away from this is not surprising as your risk is so small. It fact some unkind folk might even say its an extreme case of 'stating the bl**ding' obvious.

In fact to someone as wealthy as you, in percentage terms its small change.

This is not the same for all of us. Certainly not the OP.

This is a valid point and its curious you think its one that only people that are rather well endowed in the groin area are capable of making.

By the way, I would just say that your boasting of your ability to eat 'something more substantial than mud at mealtimes' is a luxury

[Naam]

At 64 I have figured out that whatever I own in this life isn't going to come with me when I die. I want my wife and son to have it when I am gone. The happiness she has given me is only excelled by the joy that our son gives me.

once in a while i read a heart warming post on Thaivisa. this is one of them. HATS OFF!

[skybluestu]

WOW! When I first posted this Op I didn't think I would get so much advice or so many varying opinions from people, I guess because of the very different experiences that people have had with Thai women! I am not in a financial situation where I can just walk away from our relationship with nothing if it goes wrong so will be getting a Usufruct and Lifetime Partnership agreement, as recommended by many people replying to my initial post, my girlfriend has agreed to this and is happy for a 50/50 split if we do end up splitting up. I am 33 and only have enough to pay 50% towards a nice house for us, the other 50% being a Joint Mortgage but with me being the person making the repayments, she couldn't make the repayments on her own anyway. I'm working out here and making enough to easily pay the repayments each month and live comfortably each month, more so than when I was working back in the UK as my one bedroom flat I had there was 180k and even with a 'good' job I was into my overdraft every month because of the stupidly high costs of living there. I don't see my relationship with my girlfriend here as that different to ones I had in the UK, if I married a girl there and divorced she would get 50% so am happy for it to be like that here also. I'm sure those of you who have been here for a long time and have more experience of Thailand and Thai women may think I'm naive when I say I feel she is genuine and is with me not just for money and maybe in a few years time I will find out I was wrong but am willing to take the chance. I know many farang get used by Thai women but there are also many very happy relationships, at the school that I teach there are many students with western Father's all, seemingly, in happy relationships. The one guy i know who isn't is nearly 70 and has a 37 yr old wife, maybe I'm cynical but it seems most of the Farang I've met who have had negative experiences with Thai women are older guys who have come out here when retired and had a relationship with a girl in their 20's or 30's, is it likely they are with the guy for love or money?