PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[HelterSkelter]

15,000 British holiday makers stranded in the South of Thailand.Some trying to make their main flights attempted to charter Buses to Bangkok.They were violently Blocked by PAD supporters!Despite pleas for allowing these families with children to return home for school start.Plus 5,000 Australian holidaymakers (Source matichon news (matichon.com)

how many were stranded at french or other strikes? And these strikes were only about increase of salaries. If I would be american I would call it collateral damage.

I got caught in literally dozens of 'Greves Français' French Strikes.

Just part of life there. The unions have a bit too much power,

but the people seem to like it that way.

Maybe Sarkozy is backing them down a touch. Not sure.

Plenty of 'les roast bif' got caught not getting back from a long weekend too.

A risk you take for a french escape weekend.

Increase of salaries, no decreases of benefits, an extra 6 months of work

before retirement at an early ageetc. Mostly about the unions not wanting

to lose face or an iota of power in many cases.

But you deal with it.

So Pierrot, who's the Jean Marie LePen of Thailand? Marc Blondel, Vianet?

Just posting info.

Though if "You got Ros Biff" In your Euro stranding,I'm sure it was a bit less stressfull than having your wife and children confronted by a violent mob half way around the globe on holiday,aftar patronizing Their land with a thousand pounds.The previous weeks of "Fond family Holiday Memories",

turned into an expensive mini nightmare.

[h90]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

If all they would stick to is exposing unashamed exposure of corruption, most would have no problem. Overthrowing elected governements because they sit 60,000 in the parkand get hold a microphone is a little bit beyond "all they have been up to." Where were these lovely caring people when the military was building golf courses all over the country and plundering Siam Military bank. How did TPIPL end up owing billions of unsecured USD? How did Manager Group get the financing it did? All dodgy business, and this is a play to put them all back at the top table.

The list is endless

Where were the PAD as corporate borrowers bankrupted the country while they sipped on 10,000 USD bottles of Chateaux neuf du Pape in Pattaya. I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

I recall that Sondhi told direct in ASTV that Surayud Chulanont is a criminal who should stay in jail an not in government. That statement was so hard that I recall it.

[HelterSkelter]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

If all they would stick to is exposing unashamed exposure of corruption, most would have no problem. Overthrowing elected governements because they sit 60,000 in the parkand get hold a microphone is a little bit beyond "all they have been up to." Where were these lovely caring people when the military was building golf courses all over the country and plundering Siam Military bank. How did TPIPL end up owing billions of unsecured USD? How did Manager Group get the financing it did? All dodgy business, and this is a play to put them all back at the top table.

The list is endless

Where were the PAD as corporate borrowers bankrupted the country while they sipped on 10,000 USD bottles of Chateaux neuf du Pape in Pattaya. I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

I get your point Thai at Heart - corruption is endemic in Thailand - however the PAD has only been around as a serious force in Thai politics for a couple of years - and it's influence is growing all the time -

You detail obvious obuses of power in your post that wil hopefully be a thing of the past in a post-Samak/PPP world!

Many here seem as split on the issues as The PAD and the Majority against them.

May We agree to Disagree.We "Farang" seem to be as organized as the Universe at times.Thank Powers that be We are not leaders of anything more than our hoses!

Shine On You Crazy Diamonds!

[larvidchr]

....in our advanced democracy's there would be scores of dead and wounded.

everyone who wants to read the full rant of this truly advanced democrat please click on the little arrow beside his name. i cannot bear the responsibily to repeat this absurd babble. just one sentence should be enough.........and may people not forget, that most of this forum readers are guests in this otherwise beautiful country and behave accordingly.

I first got a bit angry, highlighting a few words, and I thought, then deliberate misinterpret and misunderstand another members post to such a high degree is despicable forum behaviour, but then I read a few of your other posts and realised that you don't play with a whole deck of cards, so you are excused!

Secondly, you and I obviously have a very different view on how guests should behave, but since you are what you are, I don't mind giving you a hint or two, next time you go to immigration try to keep a low profile with the support for street rioting and other unlawful behaviour.

[animatic]

15,000 British holiday makers stranded in the South of Thailand.Some trying to make their main flights attempted to charter Buses to Bangkok.They were violently Blocked by PAD supporters!Despite pleas for allowing these families with children to return home for school start.Plus 5,000 Australian holidaymakers (Source matichon news (matichon.com)

how many were stranded at french or other strikes? And these strikes were only about increase of salaries. If I would be american I would call it collateral damage.

I got caught in literally dozens of 'Greves Français' French Strikes.

Just part of life there. The unions have a bit too much power,

but the people seem to like it that way.

Maybe Sarkozy is backing them down a touch. Not sure.

Plenty of 'les roast bif' got caught not getting back from a long weekend too.

A risk you take for a french escape weekend.

Increase of salaries, no decreases of benefits, an extra 6 months of work

before retirement at an early ageetc. Mostly about the unions not wanting

to lose face or an iota of power in many cases.

But you deal with it.

So Pierrot, who's the Jean Marie LePen of Thailand? Marc Blondel, Vianet?

Just posting info.

Though if "You got Ros Biff" In your Euro stranding,I'm sure it was a bit less stressfull than having your wife and children confronted by a violent mob half way around the globe on holiday,aftar patronizing Their land with a thousand pounds.The previous weeks of "Fond family Holiday Memories",

turned into an expensive mini nightmare.

Roast Bif is the french equivalent to Farang for english people.

Clearly YOU have never seen or been in a french strike Mr Skelter.

They are not burning 100 cars in Bangkok right now are they?

1,000 lbs becomes 1,200lbs and a story to tell for years.

Dear remember the time we got trapped in Thailand, whoo-ee.

The only bad sob story was the guy who milked his credit card

to the limit. A foolish thing to do when traveling

somewhere out of your home country IMHO.

Not recommended IN your home country either

I feel sorry for some of those trapped in Phuket for a time.

But it mostly comes under aggravation, not nightmare.

Reschedule the flight, call the boss and say I'll be back when they let me.

No burning tires, no street beatings, no rampaging mob

in down town Phuket by the beach.

Aggravation need not = FEAR.

Edited August 31, 2008 by animatic

[Bangyai]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

Good post. If the PAD wanted to be a credible peoples movement they would have done well to dump Sondhi and Panlop from the begining just as the PPP couldn't have chosen a worse front man than Samak

[scyriacus]

Any one notice how there hasn't been a single bomb in Yala Pattani or Naritiwat since all this non sense began last week

sir 'rijkard', every peaceloving heart has realized and appreciates the absence of violence in bkk and in the south. if you call that 'nonsense', what do you want to tell us? be more precise please. what's on your agenda? what's your message??

[animatic]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

Good post. If the PAD wanted to be a credible peoples movement they would have done well to dump Sondhi and Panlop from the begining just as the PPP couldn't have chosen a worse front man than Samak

I don't think PAD picked Panlop, even though Chalerm knows him from the past.

I think he decided to jump on for his own reasons.

He never has gone down to the stage, no big hugs, no speeches,

he just did a few interviews and is watching to see where the chips fall.

He may or may not have similar aims vis a vis PPP governance,

but I think he is just being a consumate opportunist here.

[scyriacus]

.........and may people not forget, that most of this forum readers are guests in this otherwise beautiful country and behave accordingly.

Indeed, and that is why I don't refer to the Prime Minister as "pigface" or litter my posts with silly pictures taken out of context designed to belittle or denigrate the man who holds that office.

good to hear kitty, now that we know what you don't do, could you please enlighten the forum with what do you do? i detest people who denigrate others with swear-words like "pigface". i believe that was just a nickname given to him by his opponents in thailand and not by a board member (or do you have proof, that it comes from 'guests'?). i strongly expect serious people not to talk faces and silly pics, just contents and meanings and ideas.

"great minds talk ideas, average minds talk events, small minds talk people" (roosevelt)

[animatic]

"great minds talk ideas, average minds talk events,

small minds talk people" (roosevelt)

A great place to call it a night at.

Edited August 31, 2008 by animatic

[scyriacus]

At the end of a particular day, in the short term, the end result may not be all that discernibly different, but it is the progression to a more fair and equitable society which is important. Only a democratic system of government backed up by courts that actually deliver real justice can assure that goal. A reversion to a more feudally orientated society may well provide some political stability in the short term, but though it might benefit the few, it would be poison for the country long term in this modern world. Thailand can not afford to continue with half its population being kept as uneducated and relatively unproductive virtual economic slaves.

my full respect to you 'ando'. i couldn't have said this better! let's do all we can to help oust the enemies of this and to support the few who wanna bring a change........

[RadioCityMike]

At the end of a particular day, in the short term, the end result may not be all that discernibly different, but it is the progression to a more fair and equitable society which is important. Only a democratic system of government backed up by courts that actually deliver real justice can assure that goal. A reversion to a more feudally orientated society may well provide some political stability in the short term, but though it might benefit the few, it would be poison for the country long term in this modern world. Thailand can not afford to continue with half its population being kept as uneducated and relatively unproductive virtual economic slaves.

my full respect to you 'ando'. i couldn't have said this better! let's do all we can to help oust the enemies of this and to support the few who wanna bring a change........

Ando - You have been saying this for days. It was as true then as it is now. I too fully support this position. Sorry I can only provde moral support.

[scyriacus]

The difference being the Angel Rosane is prancing around as a wise Senator, when in fact she is a core founder of PAD.

is that in any way a contradiction? i always thought, that some core founders of pad are wise angels indeed. please provide one single serious argument, why a wise angel senator is not allowed to protest corruption?

[scyriacus]

The group of people say it supports the elected government and wants the government to continue its work.

very interesting indeed. could you please be so kind and tell the forum, what kind of work this bought government should continue? vote buying? bringing toxin back? amending the constitution for that? lifting his ban from politics? even pardon him on everything? unfreeze his assets? or what do you mean by "work"? please explain, we're eager to listen & learn!

[scyriacus]

I venture to sugest that most of the shirkers abusing their sick entitlement are doing the kind of non-skilled jobs that anyone could learn in a couple of days.

hi kitty venturer! i recommend you apply for the job, with your 28 years shirkers experience in democracy you could learn it in a couple of minutes. good luck to you. but don't expect me to trust your colleagues after just a couple of days of training......

[scyriacus]

I think the police will stop them this time or at least be prepared to if it don't happen.

i hope police will stop you or at least be prepared to before anything happens, troll

[lifeisrandom]

is there any way to block a person's posts from being viewable?

[onethailand]

NBT has shown photos which appear to prove that the photos oft-mentioned in this thread - particularly the one with the gun pointing at a demonstrator's head - were doctored - in fact the muzzle of the gun is on the other side of the person's head and does not appear to be pointed at anyone.

NBT also claims that police have concluded that the tear gas was definitely not the same as what the police use.

[scyriacus]

....When I lived in the Northeast and had occasion to go to the Amper there was always a poster on the wall saying " don't sell your voice, don't sell your country"....

IMHO, maybe just one poster is not enough or has not been read by enough people. instead of bragging about 'legality' in los, maybe we all should spread that 'news' to each and everyone everytime and in every post: corruption is not cool (blink blink flash flash) drink coke instead selling your vote. etc etc. ideas are welcome.

[RadioCityMike]

NBT has shown photos which appear to prove that the photos oft-mentioned in this thread - particularly the one with the gun pointing at a demonstrator's head - were doctored - in fact the muzzle of the gun is on the other side of the person's head and does not appear to be pointed at anyone.

NBT also claims that police have concluded that the tear gas was definitely not the same as what the police use.

Onethailand, I am not questioning the accuracy of your post, but I think it is clear that both sides are willing to use questionable means to gain public support. Maybe we could all agree that propaganda is widespread by all factions and should be ignored. In any case, I hope there are not another 50 posts arguing about where the gun is pointed and the molecular makeup of the tear gas. Doctoring of photos or using tear gas are pretty insignificant actions in the big picture.

[britmaveric]

greedy - self-serving - and arrogant individuals who - in the main - only care about the enrichment of themselves and their family members -

Wow - you just described the PAD. :D

[onethailand]

NBT has shown photos which appear to prove that the photos oft-mentioned in this thread - particularly the one with the gun pointing at a demonstrator's head - were doctored - in fact the muzzle of the gun is on the other side of the person's head and does not appear to be pointed at anyone.

NBT also claims that police have concluded that the tear gas was definitely not the same as what the police use.

Onethailand, I am not questioning the accuracy of your post, but I think it is clear that both sides are willing to use questionable means to gain public support. Maybe we could all agree that propaganda is widespread by all factions and should be ignored. In any case, I hope there are not another 50 posts arguing about where the gun is pointed and the molecular makeup of the tear gas. Doctoring of photos or using tear gas are pretty insignificant actions in the big picture.

I'm not the one you should be questioning for accuracy anyhow Just reporting what I see or hear, not making claims on behalf of anyone.

I do not have a clear enough copy of that photo to analyze myself, but if so it would be very easy to detect. I would not have made a call either way on the copies that I saw available. Do note, however, that PAD is the source of a lot of video and photos - while NBT is video only.

Even wire agencies are not beyond dispute - this I know from personal experience. Both AP and Reuters in Bangkok are occasionally too quick to pull the trigger. AFP is usually a bit slower - but more likely to get it right the first time.

I just want to put that controversy to rest (and unfortunately might have done the opposite) - but frankly I don't believe a great deal of the photos I've seen from either side. Video is a bit different.

[HelterSkelter]

NBT has shown photos which appear to prove that the photos oft-mentioned in this thread - particularly the one with the gun pointing at a demonstrator's head - were doctored - in fact the muzzle of the gun is on the other side of the person's head and does not appear to be pointed at anyone.

NBT also claims that police have concluded that the tear gas was definitely not the same as what the police use.

Onethailand, I am not questioning the accuracy of your post, but I think it is clear that both sides are willing to use questionable means to gain public support. Maybe we could all agree that propaganda is widespread by all factions and should be ignored. In any case, I hope there are not another 50 posts arguing about where the gun is pointed and the molecular makeup of the tear gas. Doctoring of photos or using tear gas are pretty insignificant actions in the big picture.

Wait a Minute! THE Government did not ,and does not need to use Tactics! IT IS the Government elected by a majority in a Democracy.It IS therefore Legitimized and Legal.It has already the supporting Mandate of the overwhelming public.And has seemingly thus far stood by the laws of the land and even Bent over backwards to afford peaceful resolve.If this were most other countries the Legal force would have been Hard!The Government is NOT a Faction it IS The Government!

[scyriacus]

Pretty much like the PAD, it all started with the attempt to put NBT out of the air, remember ? Silly that one side has to abide by the rules, and the other side apparently is above the law. But of course one is the legitimate government of Thailand.....

how come u r so pretty sure that nbt was not staged? have u been there? there is pretty little reason for the peaceful protesters to spoil their reputation, but ample reason for daad and toxin to use dirty tricks. pad is fighting corruption, toxin is fighting for his billions in frozen assets. who do you think is fighting dirty? no one seems to know, but many seem to comment. can anyone please tell, what proof is there for pads involvement in the nbt soap opera other than some of them were disguised in yellow? any more proof? please come forward or stop ranting! and legitimate vote buyers? please explain that one!

[scyriacus]

Some have stated that things were more stable and the country was better off under the military government....

you are joking! nobody likes military rule (hopefully) they were just caretakers for a limited time and handed back power voluntarily. unfortunatelly to another corrupt toxin fan and puppet. but you are right insofar as we all comfortly survived it. but now corruption and chaos prevails again. let's not wait until tanks solve this again and again! send a clear message to samak and all his corrupt and greedy supporters: go out, give thailand a chance!

[scyriacus]

Still I see posters that seem to think this is about ending corruption in Thailand. I guess it's nice to believe in something. Surely the PAD and it's leadership don't want that. They want to get their hands into the cooky jar again, that's all..

i am one of those who believe in something, albeit not in pad. who do you suggest to fight corruption? tax-sin?samak? any better idea than pad?? or do you want toxin to stay in sole possesion of the cooky jar? is that all?

The PAD isn't going to battle corruption, it's a simple as that. Again they want their hands in the cooky jar and take back what Thaksin "stole" from them. So it would be silly to trust these people to do something about it. And it's the PAD that is responsible for the polictical deadlock that has plagued Thailand since around april 2006. Time to move on, there have been elections, there is a government, they have to accept the democratic system. But they don't, as they still have a score to settle with Thaksin, who is gone for crying out loud. He is done for. He is not pulling any strings anymore, they let him go, and that's it.

you are dead wrong. tax-sin may be some few hours away, but he is not gone. do you wanna tell the forum readers he is going to forget his billion baht loot here? don't you know that samak proudly announced, that he does everything to bring toxin back, amend the constitution if needed, pardon him, get his ban lifted and his assets unfrozen? don't you know or do you deny? i do not believe in pad but even lesser in samak. something desperatelly need to be changed. so please, who do you want to have the cooky jar? tell us! if we can find a way to keep the greedy sticky fingers away from the jar, which belongs to all the thai people, we will be friends. if you insist to support corruption, i will be your fiercest enemy.....

[scyriacus]

While Western style democracy in Thailand clearly doesn't work (Thais have been trying since 1932!), neither does Thai style democracy (1932 to the present) succeed in Thailand. What to do...

remember remember the 5th of november. the english are trying since more than 400 years and still have no more than thatcher, blair and brown. can't you britons remember and/or stay a bit more modest? the us are trying since more than 200 years and still have no more than george bush. they also better stay out of discussion about democray in thailand. only the thais can find solutions, if not in parliament or in poor isaan villages, maybe in bkk streets or hkt?

And US officially allows to torture people...that something not even Samak can do.

how i wish you were right. but in the 'war on terror' thailand & toxin belonged to the 'coalition of the willing', had several secret cia torture chambers in thailand. our big american brother is still intervening in thai politics. sure business is easier with a corrupt power breaker than with a really democratically elected integer and independant servant of his people. american business never ever liked or supported those, but cruel corrupt dictators instead......open your blue eyes, without support by the usa, changes in thailand are very very difficult. look how much weapons thailand buys in usa and where all these dubious generals were trained. thailand is more important for gwb than grenada. and read what usa have done there.........sad enough, but business is business, if you like it or not

[Johpa]

If there is an unelected government, the demonstrations will be by university students and backed up by the poor that equate democracy with welfare.

This is nearly the same urban populist rhetoric that Sonthi espoused in his speech here in the US last winter, the denigration of the rural poor. It just pisses off him and his followers that Thaksin had thrown the rural populace some bones apart from a few baat for a vote, bones Sonthi and his followers in Bangkok wholeheartedly believe belonged to them. Democracy is equated more with corporate welfare than populist welfare.

[RadioCityMike]

Some have stated that things were more stable and the country was better off under the military government....

you are joking! nobody likes military rule (hopefully) they were just caretakers for a limited time and handed back power voluntarily. unfortunatelly to another corrupt toxin fan and puppet. but you are right insofar as we all comfortly survived it. but now corruption and chaos prevails again. let's not wait until tanks solve this again and again! send a clear message to samak and all his corrupt and greedy supporters: go out, give thailand a chance!

It seems very clear that PAD is insisting on a government that is 70% appointed by the military. They have been quoted over and over again saying that. If that is not the case, PAD should deny their support of that idea and clarify what kind of government they propose.

[onethailand]

PAD can insist on whatever they like - but they are not the people in a position to establish that rule. This is what I find so strange about Samak asking if the 70-30 rule is the type of thing we call "democracy" - what he's left out is that it still essentially takes an act of democracy to take away said democracy.