How Can A Farang Have A Successful Relationship With A Thai?

[yabaaaa]

My rule is always be wary of a thai girl willing to spend a lot of time and effort on men 1000s of miles away. If she a country girl

i would run!

My rule is ignore this rule, Ive been marrid for 2 years live 6000 miles away go over twice a year for two and a half months each time, chat via skype everyday, no problems us both saving for the future. Strong relationship depends on parties involved. No two girls the same.

[rockyysdt]

As far as income is concerned, I'm realistic.

Love or no love, I know that being extremely poor can place a huge stress on the best of relationships.

Having a reasonable income and or assets are important to the health of most relationships.

To me, this is only true if you place a greater importance on money than on the relationship. I have chosen to be poorer for many years & during this period, had a 4 year relationship in Argentina. At no time was "money" a contention during this relationship.

Thanks for your encouragement elkangorito.

I suspect the importance of income will vary in each relationship.

The very fact that we'd be commuting internationally and keeping two places of residence due to visa restrictions already places a large cost on us.

From what I've learned so far on this post, there are ways around visa restrictions.

For me, it seems to come down to income.

Are there any viable businesses in Thailand that I could get into?

[geriatrickid]

I am 35 and 2 years away from retirement, i would not call myself an old geezer

You're going to retire at 37? I hope you have millions salted away. Otherwise, what are you going to live on in the distant future? You are unlikely to make any major money in Thailand. If you know her well enough & long enough, I would consider bringing her to your country & see how it goes.

I think we have to assume that Jimmy is minted. At least that's what he'd like us to believe, like so many other posters here.

Well, I'd like to know how Jimmy is going to manage this feat. According to what I have seen in TV, I am one of those minted people, and I'm heir to a great chunk (just as soon as the 'rents take an extended holiday ) , so technically I should have been able to "retire" years ago and yet, everytime I do the math I realize I can't stop working if I wish to live in the manner I am accustomed to.

Which brings me back to the OP, before you even consider moving, it would be prudent to crunch your numbers under various scenarios: Best case, worst case where you have a debilitating illness 3 months in, expected case where you would maintain the same quality of life as you enjoyed back in OZ. Some people don't mind living with a fan off a muddy moo and pooping in a whole in the ground. Then there are others like me that need 2 ply bumwad, and the food I prefer along with dwelling temperatures that are as chilling as the storage drawers down at the morgue.

Edited August 29, 2008 by geriatrickid

[F1fanatic]

It's v easy. Just send her a large amount of money each month and she will be there for you when you retire and come to Thailand.

To the man who said he lives x'000 miles away but it worked etc., I lived next door for a while to a Thai girl who was married to an English man who was working in England to make money for them both. He paid the rent on the house and sent money to live on etc. She came from a reasonably well off Thai family, but every time she popped round for a chat (uninvited after the first time!) she would talk about nothing but money and how she was putting it away in HER bank account. On one occassion she told me how he sent her money to buy a new motorbike but she won the lottery so put the money straight in her bank account!

The point is however, she had no intention of leaving him as he was a good provider.

[rockyysdt]

It's v easy. Just send her a large amount of money each month and she will be there for you when you retire and come to Thailand.

To the man who said he lives x'000 miles away but it worked etc., I lived next door for a while to a Thai girl who was married to an English man who was working in England to make money for them both. He paid the rent on the house and sent money to live on etc. She came from a reasonably well off Thai family, but every time she popped round for a chat (uninvited after the first time!) she would talk about nothing but money and how she was putting it away in HER bank account. On one occassion she told me how he sent her money to buy a new motorbike but she won the lottery so put the money straight in her bank account!

The point is however, she had no intention of leaving him as he was a good provider.

F1

What you say is true for many.

If some Thai ladies use their farang boyfriends then I can understand this completely.

If you delve more deeply you could conclude that they are also being exploited.

I don't know about ones who come from well off families, but engaging with foreign boyfriends is their only way out of their poverty and squalor.

It can be very difficult for those who conduct long distance relationships.

If your love is unconditional, you have no expectations, and your assistance is modest, you have nothing to lose.

Amongst them all there are many who just want to be loved and to live a normal life.

Edited August 31, 2008 by rockyysdt

[lifeisrandom]

teach english is the only reasonable answer

I'm sure the issues I face are not new and many here would have walked down a similar path.

I'm keen to pursue a relationship with a girl I love. I'm Australian, she is Thai.

Everyone knows building a new relationship is difficult as it is without adding the following.

• Being non professional, my abilty to earn a worthwhile income in Thailand appears to be very limited.
  
• I have a few years to go before reaching retirement age, and probably need to continue generating foreign income.
  
• Thai Visa restrictions appear to limit my access to three months each year.
  

All I want to do is live with my new partner and see where the future takes us.

I don't think bringing her to my country is the answer.

Taking her out of her environment and isolating her from her family would probably destroy what we have.

The Family is her life.

What should I do?

[ronz28]

You might consider talking to her about living in your country while you are working your last few years. She may surprise you and want to live there to see what its like. She might find work there too. She might like that since she would probably be paid far more in your country than in Thailand and the working conditions would be better. You could show her the places of interest in your country on the weekends, etc. and the time would go by faster for both of you until you could retire in Thailand. But beware she may not want to return to Thailand.

[rixalex]

I don't know about ones who come from well off families, but engaging with foreign boyfriends is their only way out of their poverty and squalor.

I'm not denying that poverty and squalor doesn't exist in Thailand, but sometimes people from a Western perspective see certain Thai people, perhaps most often those from a basic rural background, and think that they are living such tough lives on the poverty line, when in fact by Thai standards they are actually doing quite well.

It's all relative. A rich Arab man might visit a drab, somewhat run-down suburb of London and meet a checkout girl and think, "my god, what an awful existence, she needs saving". Not that i'm saying life couldn't be better for a girl like this, but her life is just normal for those brought up in this environment.

Western men in Thailand can all too easily become overcome with "knight-in-shining-armour" syndrome, which is driven along by the fact that the damsels they think they are saving are cute little things with button noses, just crying out for a hero with a big nose.

Western men have also been none to use the, "the poor little things only way out of poverty and squalor" excuse for justifying their wife's prior foray with prostitution, without it seeming to occur to them that there were many other little Leks in the village who also led similar lives, but who didn't end up selling their bodies to make a crust.

[poshthai]

If she a country girl i would run!

You have a reason for saying this????

Thats a nasty slur on country girls,in fact your mouth is nasty.

[qwertz]

If she a country girl i would run!

You have a reason for saying this????

Thats a nasty slur on country girls,in fact your mouth is nasty.

Quite right, PostThai. And the best way to a successful relationship with anyone is less discussion and more action.

[F1fanatic]

If she a country girl i would run!

You have a reason for saying this????

Thats a nasty slur on country girls,in fact your mouth is nasty.

Quite right, PostThai. And the best way to a successful relationship with anyone is less discussion and more action.

I suspect the reason he said that is because most 'farang' meet country girls in a bar. The nice ones don't go to, and certainly don't work in, bars!

Anyone who is lucky enough to meet a 'country girl' in a different situation is likely to find it VERY hard work to even get her to go out with him, but if he does then he is very lucky indeed.

[jdinasia]

• I have a few years to go before reaching retirement age, and probably need to continue generating foreign income.
  

All I want to do is live with my new partner and see where the future takes us.

What should I do?

Don't want to bring you down or anything BUT. If she's a 'girl' and your an old geezer just a 'few years off retirement', you will have a lot more to contend with than just 'cultural' differences.

I am 35 and 2 years away from retirement, i would not call myself an old geezer

Being non professional, my abilty to earn a worthwhile income in Thailand appears to be very limited.

OK .. you are non-professional enough not to be able to earn income in Thailand ... but retiring at 37? ---- sounds a bit fishy ...

But basically if she can pass immigration standards for Australia then get her there and travel back to Thailand while you are still working.

[philliphn]

Most Thai women want to help their families. By this I mean mama and papa.

Even if she only worked in McDonald's and sent home half her pay. Her family would be better of!

You could visit her family once a year for a vacation. I think that it is likely that she would find this a good suggestion.

I reiterate read the book Thailand Fever, A Road Map for Thai-Western Relationships. By Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant. This is published by Paiboon Publishing. www.paiboonpublishing.com.

[philliphn]

Most Thai women want to help their families. By this I mean mama and papa.

Even if she only worked in McDonald's and sent home half her pay. Her family would be better of!

You could visit her family once a year for a vacation. I think that it is likely that she would find this a good suggestion.

I reiterate read the book Thailand Fever, A Road Map for Thai-Western Relationships. By Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant. This is published by Paiboon Publishing. www.paiboonpublishing.com.

Edited September 1, 2008 by philliphn

[damo]

I'm sure the issues I face are not new and many here would have walked down a similar path.

I'm keen to pursue a relationship with a girl I love. I'm Australian, she is Thai.

Everyone knows building a new relationship is difficult as it is without adding the following.

• Being non professional, my abilty to earn a worthwhile income in Thailand appears to be very limited.
  
• I have a few years to go before reaching retirement age, and probably need to continue generating foreign income.
  
• Thai Visa restrictions appear to limit my access to three months each year.
  

All I want to do is live with my new partner and see where the future takes us.

I don't think bringing her to my country is the answer.

Taking her out of her environment and isolating her from her family would probably destroy what we have.

The Family is her life.

What should I do?

Hi Rockystdt.

When I read your post I sort of want to cringe a little, and without knowing you and your circumstances like age, occupation, asset base, experience in Thailand then any reply would be very general. Don't listen to rockys post previos, he probably failed to mention that his mate was paying because she was a bar girl and had to be there because the English BF does'nt support. The family is her life, to quote the second to last line in your post and will be the biggest problem for yourself, you will find there is little you can do apart from try to understand it and go with it. Take a look at the family, does she have five brothers and alcaholic father with a penchant for gambling? or perhaps and only sister with hard working, down to earth, open minded parents? If the former is so then I would seriously consider the relationship. The mere fact (especially in rural Thailand) that she has a Farang partner will bring about a whole new list of demands upon herself as the inherant belief amongst those in her locale that all westerners have large sums of money. She will (for her familys sake) which is extremly important) try to keep face and this will ultimatly be done by leaning against yourself financially. Some farang understand this and accomodate, some take the pressure for money from their partner and end the relationship with negative feelings. Please be aware, especially if you and your partner wish to remain in Thailand the importance of money to Thai people. You can be the nicest bloke but without money, you are only going to be friends with the dogs in the street. One answer to this issue is to bring her here to Australia, you would be surprised how much weight will be lifted from your shoulders if you do so. Also as I find with my wife that having her family so close to her meant that I quite often had little time with my wife and that time we did have together was poor quality as she was allways being the shy/ good thai girl. Here in Australia it's just us, my wife is more herself and we are very close to each other now, alot more closer than would have ever been had we stayed in Thailand. If you wish to spend more time there then perhaps explore the various visa options, ED visa is one I like, I like learning as it is and the visa itself eliminates alot of hassles, alternativly unless things have change you will be able to get 2 X back to back 90 day tourist visa's. Yes this means three visa runs but it;s better than 11. Cost $180.00AUD at your local consulate. I guess you would be a this stage contemplating some sort of option to embark on an enterprise. Again be wary, capital(lack of) will kill you, the sharks will make anything you do unenjoyable and you will be eventually doing all of this for her family.

Two things to remember: If you are in Thailand and wer'nt born there then you are a tourist and will allways technally be one. What money you commit/ spend in Thailand, will allways stay in Thailand.

I would bring her here to Australia on a three month tourist visa, see how you go.

Chok Dii,

Damo..

[jamesthefirst]

I'm sure the issues I face are not new and many here would have walked down a similar path.

I'm keen to pursue a relationship with a girl I love. I'm Australian, she is Thai.

Everyone knows building a new relationship is difficult as it is without adding the following.

• Being non professional, my abilty to earn a worthwhile income in Thailand appears to be very limited.
  
• I have a few years to go before reaching retirement age, and probably need to continue generating foreign income.
  
• Thai Visa restrictions appear to limit my access to three months each year.
  

All I want to do is live with my new partner and see where the future takes us.

I don't think bringing her to my country is the answer.

Taking her out of her environment and isolating her from her family would probably destroy what we have.

The Family is her life.

What should I do?

Keep a stiff upper lip, old chap.

[MiG16]

let me remind everyone that discussions of bar girls and prostitution is not allowed on this forum

but more importantly, what will not be tolerated is demeaning talks about other people, regardless of gender, race or their choice of profession

I have deleted one particular post, and will not hesitate to put anyone else who attempts to do that on a posting suspension from the forum. Keep that in mind, and keep it respectful.

MiG (moderator)

[bravingbangkok]

Try and understand eachothers culture and ways, a farang/thai relationship is never going to be easy and you will argue like hel_l for the fisrt few years. You should try and learn from any arguments or conflicts of culture that you encounter and you will start to accept things you might not have accepted before. Try and view it as an adventure and not as trying to please someone even though what pleases them is making you unhappy, this will only result in depression and more conflict. Not mant make it out here but those who do have a great life, It takes a lot of work but is well worth it Good luck !

[long]

Hi Rockystdt, if you can find job in thailand, according the thailand law, farang salary must start with 45,000B, if any company willing to hire you, that mean you salary will start with min 45,000B. i do have many friend with the same case like you, what they doing before was keep looking for the job from website, and now they all get working permit and working here. no problem with teaching english with totally do not understand thai, but if you can speak a simple thai, that will much more easy for you looking to be english tutor in private language school here. that is some agent company helping farang get job in thailand(most is teaching), but i have no idea how does it work, but the best way is looking for youself. anyway, i think starting with recuirement webiste like jobdb will be a good start.. hope you get good news soon..cheers..

[mmushr00m]

To teach legally in LOS you will need at least a Univ degree.

If you have that you can up your potential teaching income by taking a TEFL class.

As teacher you will not have to meet the min B50k monthly income.

Most farang teachers with at least half a brain, a degree and a TEFL certificate can make between B30-40k. At govt schools you will be looking at the B30k range to start. Private schools, depends on how lucky you are and how well you meet the profile of who they want.

You can supplement your income by teaching on the side as well. B500 an hour for some corporate teaching.

But I still think the most important factor is how adaptable you are. I have friends here that absolutely despise the country, they make good $$$ but try to spend as little time as possible interacting with the locals. I have asked why and the answer is....it is so different from home and what they are used to. So they live in their gated communities, in side their gated house and compound.

[rockyysdt]

To teach legally in LOS you will need at least a Univ degree.

If you have that you can up your potential teaching income by taking a TEFL class.

As teacher you will not have to meet the min B50k monthly income.

Most farang teachers with at least half a brain, a degree and a TEFL certificate can make between B30-40k. At govt schools you will be looking at the B30k range to start. Private schools, depends on how lucky you are and how well you meet the profile of who they want.

You can supplement your income by teaching on the side as well. B500 an hour for some corporate teaching.

But I still think the most important factor is how adaptable you are. I have friends here that absolutely despise the country, they make good $$ but try to spend as little time as possible interacting with the locals. I have asked why and the answer is....it is so different from home and what they are used to. So they live in their gated communities, in side their gated house and compound.

Thanks "mm" & "long" on the great information.

It helps me rule out teaching as I'm not tertiary educated (no indication of IQ, but rather circumstance).

It sound like many have a love hate relationship with the place.

My work experience covers sales, communications (inhouse Telstra administrative, training, sales support etc), and general handyman.

As labour is involved my skills are immediately discounted, labour being so cheap in Thailand.

It seems that the ideal time for me in Thailand financially would be in retirement.

A fortnightly foreign superannuation cheque would cover my problem.

Spending six months of the year between each country might end up being the ideal.

[rockyysdt]

OK .. you are non-professional enough not to be able to earn income in Thailand ... but retiring at 37? ---- sounds a bit fishy ...

But basically if she can pass immigration standards for Australia then get her there and travel back to Thailand while you are still working.

Hi jdinasia

I never mentioned my age.

you must be confusing me with jimmyyy.

Edited September 3, 2008 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

Hi Rockystdt.

When I read your post I sort of want to cringe a little, and without knowing you and your circumstances like age, occupation, asset base, experience in Thailand then any reply would be very general. Don't listen to rockys post previos, he probably failed to mention that his mate was paying because she was a bar girl and had to be there because the English BF does'nt support. The family is her life, to quote the second to last line in your post and will be the biggest problem for yourself, you will find there is little you can do apart from try to understand it and go with it. Take a look at the family, does she have five brothers and alcaholic father with a penchant for gambling? or perhaps and only sister with hard working, down to earth, open minded parents? If the former is so then I would seriously consider the relationship. The mere fact (especially in rural Thailand) that she has a Farang partner will bring about a whole new list of demands upon herself as the inherant belief amongst those in her locale that all westerners have large sums of money. She will (for her familys sake) which is extremly important) try to keep face and this will ultimatly be done by leaning against yourself financially. Some farang understand this and accomodate, some take the pressure for money from their partner and end the relationship with negative feelings. Please be aware, especially if you and your partner wish to remain in Thailand the importance of money to Thai people. You can be the nicest bloke but without money, you are only going to be friends with the dogs in the street. One answer to this issue is to bring her here to Australia, you would be surprised how much weight will be lifted from your shoulders if you do so. Also as I find with my wife that having her family so close to her meant that I quite often had little time with my wife and that time we did have together was poor quality as she was allways being the shy/ good thai girl. Here in Australia it's just us, my wife is more herself and we are very close to each other now, alot more closer than would have ever been had we stayed in Thailand. If you wish to spend more time there then perhaps explore the various visa options, ED visa is one I like, I like learning as it is and the visa itself eliminates alot of hassles, alternativly unless things have change you will be able to get 2 X back to back 90 day tourist visa's. Yes this means three visa runs but it;s better than 11. Cost $180.00AUD at your local consulate. I guess you would be a this stage contemplating some sort of option to embark on an enterprise. Again be wary, capital(lack of) will kill you, the sharks will make anything you do unenjoyable and you will be eventually doing all of this for her family.

Two things to remember: If you are in Thailand and wer'nt born there then you are a tourist and will allways technally be one. What money you commit/ spend in Thailand, will allways stay in Thailand.

I would bring her here to Australia on a three month tourist visa, see how you go.

Chok Dii,

Damo..

Thanks Damo.

Your incite and that from others is much appreciated.

I agree with what you say.

Love of course is always blind.

Unfortunately my girlfriend is far too dutiful and extensively used by her family.

Something I'm trying to teach her to overcome.

Unfortunately she's locked in to this cycle.

Lots of dynamics are involved.

Daughters are an overhead on a rice farm.

As children, they must fight for a little love and acceptance in competition with their siblings, and more so their brothers.

If not forthcoming many of these women are driven to buy love and affection from their family via a farang connection.

For a number of reasons, I don't think my girlfriend would thrive in Australia, but you and others are right.

It can allow me to maintain a reasonable income while allowing us to explore what we have.

I love her very much, but our future together seems quite slim.

Edited September 3, 2008 by rockyysdt

[scotwumman]

This girl seems to have got herself a good intelligent and compassionate man.

Am sure though you will have read through other threads that you will not be able to take away loyalty to her family as, unfortunately in my opinion anyway being a woman, the culture instils this loyalty to family and encourages women's low self esteem in the poorer areas. Her family will always come before you and as westerners none of us can change that circumstance.

On the other hand my statement may be doing you both a disservice which is not my intention at all.

[midasthailand]

Hi Rocky,

I have read this thread with interest and can understand where you are coming from. Regardless of who gives you advice it will be coming with any baggage that the respondent carries from his/her relationship experience in Thailand. There is no "one size fits all" solution to your problem. If you were to give an indication as to your age it may be easier to give you practical advice as to Visa options. Certainly if you were to marry your girl, there would be another visa option.

The circumstances of your meeting would also enable people to give more targeted advice, for instance, if you met her whilst visiting a temple and she has work in an office the advice would likely be different than had you met her in a bar and she worked there. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the former is better or worse than the latter, but that the covenants placed on the relationship by the TV membership may differ between the two situations.

I understand and empathise with your situation and hope that you can resolve the many issues with the help of TV members.

Best of luck sport and keep us up to date with developments.

Cheers

[stephaniee]

Hi Rockystdt.

When I read your post I sort of want to cringe a little, and without knowing you and your circumstances like age, occupation, asset base, experience in Thailand then any reply would be very general. Don't listen to rockys post previos, he probably failed to mention that his mate was paying because she was a bar girl and had to be there because the English BF does'nt support. The family is her life, to quote the second to last line in your post and will be the biggest problem for yourself, you will find there is little you can do apart from try to understand it and go with it. Take a look at the family, does she have five brothers and alcaholic father with a penchant for gambling? or perhaps and only sister with hard working, down to earth, open minded parents? If the former is so then I would seriously consider the relationship. The mere fact (especially in rural Thailand) that she has a Farang partner will bring about a whole new list of demands upon herself as the inherant belief amongst those in her locale that all westerners have large sums of money. She will (for her familys sake) which is extremly important) try to keep face and this will ultimatly be done by leaning against yourself financially. Some farang understand this and accomodate, some take the pressure for money from their partner and end the relationship with negative feelings. Please be aware, especially if you and your partner wish to remain in Thailand the importance of money to Thai people. You can be the nicest bloke but without money, you are only going to be friends with the dogs in the street. One answer to this issue is to bring her here to Australia, you would be surprised how much weight will be lifted from your shoulders if you do so. Also as I find with my wife that having her family so close to her meant that I quite often had little time with my wife and that time we did have together was poor quality as she was allways being the shy/ good thai girl. Here in Australia it's just us, my wife is more herself and we are very close to each other now, alot more closer than would have ever been had we stayed in Thailand. If you wish to spend more time there then perhaps explore the various visa options, ED visa is one I like, I like learning as it is and the visa itself eliminates alot of hassles, alternativly unless things have change you will be able to get 2 X back to back 90 day tourist visa's. Yes this means three visa runs but it;s better than 11. Cost $180.00AUD at your local consulate. I guess you would be a this stage contemplating some sort of option to embark on an enterprise. Again be wary, capital(lack of) will kill you, the sharks will make anything you do unenjoyable and you will be eventually doing all of this for her family.

Two things to remember: If you are in Thailand and wer'nt born there then you are a tourist and will allways technally be one. What money you commit/ spend in Thailand, will allways stay in Thailand.

I would bring her here to Australia on a three month tourist visa, see how you go.

Chok Dii,

Damo..

Thanks Damo.

Your incite and that from others is much appreciated.

I agree with what you say.

Love of course is always blind.

Unfortunately my girlfriend is far too dutiful and extensively used by her family.

Something I'm trying to teach her to overcome.

Unfortunately she's locked in to this cycle.

Lots of dynamics are involved.

Daughters are an overhead on a rice farm.

As children, they must fight for a little love and acceptance in competition with their siblings, and more so their brothers.

If not forthcoming many of these women are driven to buy love and affection from their family via a farang connection.

For a number of reasons, I don't think my girlfriend would thrive in Australia, but you and others are right.

It can allow me to maintain a reasonable income while allowing us to explore what we have.

I love her very much, but our future together seems quite slim.

you need to read the book "so you wanna marry a farm girl"

btw, how did you meet?

Edited September 3, 2008 by stephaniee

[AmeriThai]

Unfortunately my girlfriend is far too dutiful and extensively used by her family.

Something I'm trying to teach her to overcome.

Unfortunately she's locked in to this cycle.

I love her very much, but our future together seems quite slim.

With all due respect to your intention, "trying to teach her to overcome" being used by her family sounds a bit like the white knight trying to rescue the fair maiden. In other words, rather than accepting her for who she is, you're trying to change her to be what you think she should be. Not exactly good basis to try to establish a long-term meaningful relationship. The point is that you're not going to change her. The real question is a matter of mutual compatibility.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but I think your last sentence pretty well sums it up. Maybe you should think about finding someone for a relationship based on mutual acceptance rather than a one-sided view of 'needing' to change someone.

[teacup]

I know I have tried to "change" my man - well not much anyway, but only to a degree such as putting down the lid, on CERTAIN things that I feel “too out of whack“. I know a man won't change unless he wants to and I'm ok with that, for most things.

But a lot of people takes on a partner that isn't their perfect ideal to begin with and try to make him/her into something else and that's just “may be arrogance” on their part and a recipe for disastrous relationship. Women can be very rigid about changing themselves but it all boils down to HER priority. If she thinks of YOU as her first priority, and wants the relationship to work, then she will understand that some adjustments will need to be made, and VICE VERSA for a man side also.

I think the key here is to take the time to understand very well about your partner personality and perspective on the issues that important to you, before committing too quickly into a marriage in which you will pay the high price later.

Just me

[stephaniee]

i dont think its a coincidence that usually old dudes take on these kind of girls.

[teacup]

Oii...also too many world wind romance here........the "I have to have U now" stuff

Edited September 3, 2008 by teacup