Iranian Dies Following Scuba Diving Accident

[libya 115]

SOURCE: Pattaya One News: August 29th 2008

Iranian dies following Scuba Diving Accident.

There was drama at the Bali Hai Port located at the south-end of Pattaya Beach on Friday when an Iranian Tourist was transported from Larn Island in a critical condition following a Scuba Diving accident in the waters off nearby Sark Island.

Mr. Ali aged 30 was part of a 5 man expedition and is thought to have suffered from Decompression Sickness also known as “The Bends” after a rapid ascent to the surface following a dive.

CPR was administered by Dive Masters at the scene and Mr. Ali was rushed to Hospital, however despite the best efforts of the Dive Masters and Medical Staff, Mr. Ali could not be revived and was pronounced dead moments after arriving at Hospital.

[lazeeboy]

accidents happen at sea RIP

[britmaveric]

Hmmm wonder who the dive operator was?

[NotNew2You]

Agreed...Pattaya has the worst operators and boats in Thailand...none of them to my knowledge carry medical O2 tanks on board. He would not have died of the "bends" if he was not breathing. More than likely drowned as he was not breathing. Bends you would get somewhat later from either diving too deep or long or from a too rapid assent.

[britmaveric]

Last time I was out diving - there were some russians on another boat. I think they hired the gear by themselves and had no clue what they were doing. We were laffing, but in all seriousness it wasn't funny since these lads had no business out there - they were clearly a danger to themselves and others around them.

[Jareddiving]

What a bullshit!!! I have been on many dive boats in pattaya and all of them have emergency oxygen on board!! Pattaya has soms really good dive boats.. Accidents like this happen everywhere!!

[Lucifer]

What a bullshit!!! I have been on many dive boats in pattaya and all of them have emergency oxygen on board!! Pattaya has soms really good dive boats.. Accidents like this happen everywhere!!

Some self interest maybe?

[Jareddiving]

No self interest. I am just working as dive instructor in pattaya. All the boats I have worked on have 100% oxygen on board! So I don't know where 'not new bla bla to you' gets his information from.

[Tony Clifton]

Anything goes, ever seen balloons explode at partys when they fill them with hydrogen?

[PhilHarries]

No self interest. I am just working as dive instructor in pattaya. All the boats I have worked on have 100% oxygen on board! So I don't know where 'not new bla bla to you' gets his information from.

100% of the aircraft I have flown in have landed safely therefore air accidents don't happen.

Are you saying that 100% of dive operators in Pattaya are totally responsible people and no cowboy outfits exist?

Wake up boy, smell the coffee.

Edited August 30, 2008 by PhilHarries

[NotNew2You]

No self interest. I am just working as dive instructor in pattaya. All the boats I have worked on have 100% oxygen on board! So I don't know where 'not new bla bla to you' gets his information from.

Just someone who has lived in Thailand for 10 years and Pattaya for 5. Dived many different boats and operators from Pattaya to Leam Mae Pim to Samaesan and never seen an emergency O2 tank (or even a basic first-aid kit most boats) on any boat. <deleted>...most don't even spend B 15 for a bottle of white vinegar for jelly-fish or other stings...they just want you or your friend to piss on it

Also, have dive instructor buddies and course director friends who say the same.

The best you'll get for emergency high-O2 air is the leftovers from someone's nitrox 36 tank if you are lucky

[Basil B]

Agreed...Pattaya has the worst operators and boats in Thailand...none of them to my knowledge carry medical O2 tanks on board. He would not have died of the "bends" if he was not breathing. More than likely drowned as he was not breathing. Bends you would get somewhat later from either diving too deep or long or from a too rapid assent.

NN2Y, like others who have posted, I have been on many dive boats in Pattaya all had 100% O2, just wondered which dive boats you have been on that do not have O2 so I and others can avoid them.

I think it is time for the experts (not Pattaya 1 News) to determine what happened, determine if any one was reckless or negligence and make recommendations or instruct dive operation to make improvements that could reduce this type of accident happening again.

BB

[stiggy]

The Guy probably had an AGE or similar due to rapid ascent ,If he was a certified diver and the gear was of good quality its purely an accident.

Notnew2you You may have a point for some operators but to say all is total crap.

You choose to dive on boats without even a FA kit or Oxygen then your stupid......and only encouraging operators not to bother.

Your assumption on drowning and that DCI can only happen after a time period, clearly shows you are not qualified or able to make such sweeping comments.

[unomi]

No self interest. I am just working as dive instructor in pattaya.

Hilarious.

The amount of people who are pushed thru the Pay Another Drunken Instructor system is incredible and scary.

During my work ive had quite a few of 'certified' divers mistake the Low pressure inflator button on the bcd for the release valve. Only quick reflexes and some disregard for my own safety has avoided serious injury. Most inexperienced divers have no sense of how fast they ascend untill it is overwhelmingly apparent.

A not so unrealistic scenario sees a diver ascending rapidly and holding his breath in panic; lung overexpansion and asphyxia would be a result. 

Also, who on earth would go diving in Pattaya? 

[dotcom]

I think it is time for the experts (not Pattaya 1 News) to determine what happened, determine if any one was reckless or negligence and make recommendations or instruct dive operation to make improvements that could reduce this type of accident happening again.

BB

And charge the perps with manslaughter & throw there sorry a$$es in prision.

I am just dreaming here.

[NotNew2You]

Notnew2you You may have a point for some operators but to say all is total crap.

If I said ALL then I should not have...but the point I wanted to make is that many (and all of the ones I have dived with) did not have emergency medical O2 (and someone trained in its use) on board. Unfortunately, as it's probably not required by whoever licenses diving boat operations in Thailand, the boats don't go to the expense of having it. This is the case not only in Thailand but in most dive locations throughout SE Asia.

A couple of the European owned/operated operators in Phuket have it and also the liveaboard operators.

I don't want to name specific operators publicly...however, if one is inexperienced or very safety conscious then one should check when booking a trip to see if O2 is available. Also, after boarding, one could also ask to see the tank (and aid kit) to see that the valves are not all rusted-out!

[Jareddiving]

What does workpermit have to do with this accident. If you really feel the need to see my WP please visit me at home, i will be more then happy to show it to you..

Maybe on the way you can pick up Phil Harries and we can drink a nice cup of coffee.

By the way Phil Harries where did i mention that all diveoperators in pattaya are good??

There are a few really good ones.. As well as good diveboats.

You will never hear me say that all divecenters and boats are unresponsible or even unsafe unlike not new bla bla to you

I have seen emergency oxygen and first aid kits on: Mermaids 1, Saifon of Adventure divers, Paradise boat, Ithiander, the speedboat of PDC and on a few boats down at sameasan like the mermaids boat, captain Gai's boat and the reel hooker.

Unomi what is hilarious?? That i work as a diveinstructor.. because then i cant see what the hilarious part of my post is. I

am Cmas, Padi and Naui instructor so think that i am qualified enough to do the job.

By the way who says he was a certified Padi diver or even certified at any dive organization??

Maybe he was doing a Discover scuba diving and just didn't care what his instructor had to say.. Like many Iranians( not all, many!!)

And who the hel_l would go diving in Pattaya?? People that are on Holiday in Pattaya maybe

Maybe this Iranian person is fully responsible for what happened himself then why would the divecenter be charged with manslaughter??

[Kerryd]

I'm a little confused (yeah I know, what's new ?).

I'm not a diver. Dad was, but that was a long time ago. My understanding is that people get the bends when they've been down for a considerable period of time (deeper you go, shorter the time) and ascend too quickly.

While underwater, nitrogen bubbles form in the bloodstream. If you ascend too quickly, the bubbles can't dissipate and end up blocking the bloodflow, causing "the bends".

Again, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the only way to alleviate the situation is to either use a decompression chamber, or submerge again to the point (depth) where the symptoms are relieved, and then ascend again at a safe rate ?

Not sure how having emergency oxygen would help, if it can't be moved through the system due to the nitrogen bubbles blocking the bloodflow ? If all that was required to treat the bends was oxygen, why the need for decompression chambers ?

There could be a number of factors that contributed to this person's death. Not (properly) qualified. Lack of (experienced) supervision. The persons health/attitude/demeanor (ignoring instructions, panicking, whatever).

As usual, we will probably never know the exact cause of death and will be left to speculate.

I have no idea what it is like with the diving industry here, but if it's like anything else, there are few standards and next to no (official) oversight or enforcement (like fire safety, electrical codes, health standards).

Is there any official oversight of the diving industry ? Does City Hall (or the Coast Guard/Navy) for example check to ensure that operators are properly qualified, have the proper equipment, that it's properly maintained, that the staff are trained to deal with various emergencies ?

Or do they operate under the "Ask me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies" system ?

I mean that as a serious question.

I've known people that took their basic diving course, then a week later took the advanced course. Shortly after they figured that they might consider opening a dive shop/school themselves (like some people figure that after a week of drinking in a bar, they are suddenly qualified to buy and operate one themselves).

One guy quit his well paying job to do just that, only to find out you couldn't just walk in with a couple thousand dollars and start operating a business (legally) the next day.

[NotNew2You]

Is there any official oversight of the diving industry ? Does City Hall (or the Coast Guard/Navy) for example check to ensure that operators are properly qualified, have the proper equipment, that it's properly maintained, that the staff are trained to deal with various emergencies?

Welcome to the Wild West of diving

[JohnC]

It would be more useful if people waited until the full and true story comes out instead of jumping on the blame bandwagon, I made one call to clarify what had happened and it appears that the guy was snorkling not diving and had a heart attack not the bends. two first aiders (staff) administered cpr but it was no good. They are awaiting a full report from the hospital & police.

[unomi]

Not sure how having emergency oxygen would help, if it can't be moved through the system due to the nitrogen bubbles blocking the bloodflow ? If all that was required to treat the bends was oxygen, why the need for decompression chambers ?

Is there any official oversight of the diving industry ? Does City Hall (or the Coast Guard/Navy) for example check to ensure that operators are properly qualified, have the proper equipment, that it's properly maintained, that the staff are trained to deal with various emergencies ?

Or do they operate under the "Ask me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies" system ?

I am pretty sure that in this case 'the bends' is a misnomer, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_illness explains more, basically there are 2 broad scenarios, the one you outline above where relatively small nitrogen bubbles form in your body, where the symptoms can come on slowly and you could have time to get to a hyperbaric chamber. This is normally caused by not respecting the dive tables or ascending rapidly.

Another scenario is barotrauma, which basically means pressure injury. It is a more mechanical injury which can come about if you dive with blocked sinuses, leading to 'reverse block' and if you are in a rush to blown ear drums etc. A more severe version of barotrauma is seen with people who ascend while holding their breath, the lungs will overexpand and quite literally rupture, this naturally has a negative impact on your ability to absorb oxygen. It will also allow air bubbles to enter the bloodstream(one version of AGE). The effects are immediate and unkind. 

In both cases first aid procedures are to administer oxygen because the mechanisms for oxygen transmission are impaired, in the first, because the nitrogen bubbles tend to adversely affect the smaller bloodvessels first (capilliaries) and the smallest of capillaries are found in the lungs. The oxygen also aids nitrogen elimination.  The second because your lungs tend to not work at optimum efficiency while ruptured. 

As for oversight. There are local chapters of dive operator associations popping up, but they seem to be mostly geared towards marketing cooperation and the like. 

One of the major problems in the industry is that none of the certifying bodies that I know of require dive schools to be DAN or equivalently insured. PADI requires this of all operators in the US for example, but only because a lawsuit made its way back to bite PADI in its ass, so far no lawsuit has come to bear in Thailand that I am aware. The lack of insurance means that operators (or more likely the client) must bear the full cost of recompression and emergency rescue. I have no idea why the guy wasn't choppered straight to the hospital *cough* 

I hear rumours that there are new laws that dive operators to comply to certain regulations in order to get work permits, this includes CMAS certification. But untill they actually enforce WPs to the point where it is impossible to work without one, it is meaningless. 

Diving is wonderful, but it is 100% YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. Those liability waivers aren't for fun.  

Edited August 30, 2008 by unomi

[unomi]

It would be more useful if people waited until the full and true story comes out instead of jumping on the blame bandwagon, I made one call to clarify what had happened and it appears that the guy was snorkling not diving and had a heart attack not the bends. two first aiders (staff) administered cpr but it was no good. They are awaiting a full report from the hospital & police.

Uh Huh. 

[Basil B]

It would be more useful if people waited until the full and true story comes out instead of jumping on the blame bandwagon, I made one call to clarify what had happened and it appears that the guy was snorkling not diving and had a heart attack not the bends. two first aiders (staff) administered cpr but it was no good. They are awaiting a full report from the hospital & police.

Thanks for the info, there has been an awful load of "Bovine Excreta" posted on this thread.

BB

[Kerryd]

Just read two versions of this event (PDN and PON). One says he was "diving to watch corals", suffocated and his friends brought him back up to the boat.

The other report mentions "Scuba Diving Accident" and:

"...and is thought to have suffered from Decompression Sickness also known as “The Bends” after a rapid ascent to the surface following a dive."

Either way, end result the same. Highly unlikely there will be any kind of additional investigation. At least they didn't label it a suicide (yet. Still have a couple other media outlets that could report on the event.).

[NotNew2You]

I made one call to clarify what had happened and it appears that the guy was snorkling not diving and had a heart attack not the bends.

And you believed them...pretty unusual for a 30 year old male to have a heart attack while snorkeling...or at any time!

And people were just commenting on the original media report. Even if he had a snorkeling-heart-attack, it doesn't change the fact that the safety standards on many (most) dive boats operating in Pattaya are woefully inadequate.

[0Mix1up]

from what i've seen

many people that have had little experience in the water go diving

they really have no place out in the ocean

water is dangerous, inexperienced people panic, dive operators vary= 3 strikes.

[britmaveric]

Dive equipment standards are responsibility of the dive operators. I'd think inspections by any agency are prob up non-existent in thailand and prob only is a concern if there is a fatality as such. Then the spotlight is on said dive operator.

As for decompression chamber - prob be dead before you can make it there, nought in Pattaya.

[Basil B]

And you believed them...pretty unusual for a 30 year old male to have a heart attack while snorkeling...or at any time!

And people were just commenting on the original media report. Even if he had a snorkeling-heart-attack, it doesn't change the fact that the safety standards on many (most) dive boats operating in Pattaya are woefully inadequate.

Snorkeling is totally unregulated, we do not even know he was diving from a boat.

NN2Y, you have made some scathing remarks regarding Pattaya dive operations not always having 100% O2 on board and their safety standards.

I have dived UK, West Indies, Phuket & Pattaya, my diving in Pattaya has mainly been with Mermaids who's safety standard IMHO are a very high standard and always carry O2 on all boats.

I am MSD with nearly 300 dives and O2 Provider trained, I pay to dive therefore I conceder my views to be impartial.

NN2Y please name the dive operations that you state carry no O2 & you conceder their dive opperations to be unsafe.

BB

Edited August 30, 2008 by Basil B

[Basil B]

Just for the record two more stories on the same incident, the only facts they seem to agree on is his name and nationality.

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?F...IdArticle=13519

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000007073

BB

[NotNew2You]

NN2Y, you have made some scathing remarks regarding Pattaya dive operations not always having 100% O2 on board and their safety standards.

NN2Y please name the dive operations that you state carry no O2 & you conceder their dive opperations to be unsafe.

Naming names is not necessary for the point I made...my recommendation to check with the operator before booking a trip is all that is necessary. I will just say that a couple of the operators you mention I have dived with and they did not have medical O2 on board.

I will stand by my comments about the general lack of safety standards of most operators/boats in Pattaya (and most of SE Asia). Just a few weeks ago...a boat caught fire and sank (forget the name)...in fact, my friends who have the GPS coordinates for the "new wreck" wanted to do a dive today to go and investigate it