State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[hammered]

But OMR dont forget the village headmen will tell them that nasty Mr. Abhisit will cut all their manhoods off with a pair of shears if he gets to power and that we must all chant 6 doobries for 6 months a hundred times a day and rememeber it is only since that nasty Mr. Abhisist set the shadow cabinet up that the economy had failed and thirty baht health cards stopped working so well, and if Mr. Thaksin came back the price of rice would quadruple immediately and all those nice rice miller middlemen and money lenders who are all TRT MPs would not be forced by Mr. Abhisist to rip off every farmer and it is only a dreadful lie that Mr. Abhisit wants to let all rural kids compete education to first degree level fro free and we all know that Mr. Thaksin and Mr. Samak's little plan to stop all free rural education at M3 is the real way ahead because degrees dont grow rice and they dont teach you to wai your rural master properly and show respect to the local big name mafia family and after all that is what it is all about.........

So now now OMR dont go suggesting the rural poor dont make well informed decisions at elections. After all we all know they get lots of information.... on which to base their decisions

Hammered, I agree completely with your comments (now that I know what a doobrie is).

People upcountry are not stupid and in fact, like in all countries, some are very, very smart. In the west we know that people born from the poorest of families can be CEO's of the biggest companies if given the opportunity.

Below is a link to the recent article by Chang Noi. According to Chang Noi, the people upcountry have got smart and they have learned to use their votes too well, being consistent and rational with their votes (i.e. voting for Thaksin and his incarnates).

I think that Chang Noi has it wrong. He is confusing voting intelligence with the ability to vote intelligently. I agree with your comments that pressure is put on people in the northeast to vote a certain way, regardless of whether they are paid to or not paid to. In fact, it has nothing to do with payments, but rather safety for one's self and one's family. I am very surprised that Chang Noi has not addressed this.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/...mocracy-is.html

Thanks for posting- Perhaps he didn't address the issue of risk for the same reason that he down played vote buying- because it is largely a myth that serves to undermine the legitimacy of votes cast in the north east. It is a good article- one that some on this forum have been arguing for three years. Democracy IS working up country- so lets try to figure out what Bangkok's problem is...

Blaze, actually it isn't working upcountry, but it has nothing to do with the intelligence or lack of intelligence of the voting community (which so many people get caught up on), nor does it having anything to do with payments (which so many more people get caught up on). The fact is, people upcountry are pressured into voting a certain way. Perhaps this is what they want anyway, but how do we know?

Do people upcountry really want a government that cares more about its survival than managing the country? Really, is that how they feel? If it is and they are the majority, then democracy has spoken. However, right now we can't say for sure, and that is the problem with the current process. Let votes be counted away from the poll sites and make sure that votes delivered to central locations are not given to just anyone because "their bosses are busy". So many tactics.

Hi OMR- if I understand your arguement correctly, it's kind of a catch 22:- if the upcountry people are genuinely voting for their party of choice (no intimidation, no vote buying) then they are voting for the survival of the gov''t rather than in the best interest of the country- so democracy isn't working.

But if they really have the best interest of the country in their heart, but are cowed/bought into voting for the govt- - democrcracy isn't working.

While I would accept the second premise as an indication that democracy is failing upcountry- I'm not so sure about the first.

I fully agree in implementing every possible measure available to ensure that votes are cast freely- without bribe or intimidation.

BUt you've left one thing out- the mess in Bangkok is not due to the fact that the elections were bought/coerced- but rather that some absolutely refuse to accept that the polls were legit. The bigger problem, I think, is how to convince the opposition that the election results truly reflect the wishes of the people.

How do you convince the losing team that the umpire wasn't crooked? And that, I think is even more of a challenge.

I think what OMR is getting at is the power of the village headman to "advise" villagers how to vote in traditonal Thai settings. If you have a chance it is worth spending a few months around an election campaign observing how this works. It is not the vote buying but it is certasinly also not about making informed decisons based on having all the information. In fact the information is usually good about the headman's preffered choice and very negative with lots of scares about any other party.

[thaigene2]

They may not be doing a very good job of it. A number of Thais have told me that their attraction to the soaps is waiting for the inevitable scene where an elite gets their "come-uppance" and is either mocked, had their hair pulled, ridiculed, pushed into a mud puddle, or any other of the myriad of events that seemingly almost always befall the elite characters in these soaps. The non-elites revel in watching these scenes.

That's very true SJ, except the hair-pulling femme fatale and her hero are, to an episode, other opposing elite families (the 'good' vs the 'bad') or occasionally a middle-class 'under-dog'.

There hav e been a few exceptions - Mae Aye Sa-oon (Mae Aye Weeping) was a notable one a few years back - a peasant girl is tricked into working as a prostitute by her friend who eventually ends up working as a hi-so hooker...and then all the usual love-triangle stuff with the rich boyfriend/hero.

Another exception was the short series about the Lao maids - a comedy of course - who worked for a mafia Jao-Pah family..but it was to make you laugh at the mafiosa and the maids who became detectives..Again - it all revolves around the rich and pwerful.

[cmsally]

An interesting and relevant article.

Asia Sentinel

[hammered]

To my mind the Post SoE and Prachathai Lords of articles are both worth a read.

[thaigene2]

So VERY interesting that HRM Liz's representative publicly seeks out Kuhn Abhist,

for a talk on Parliament's grounds, not his office. No backroom briefing here.

And POINTEDLY not speaking with Kuhn Samak.

Apparently Samak attended a function at the British Embassy the other night at the invitation of the Ambassador - think it involved a visit of Prince Andrew..

So much for that theory..

[thaigene2]

So VERY interesting that HRM Liz's representative publicly seeks out Kuhn Abhist,

for a talk on Parliament's grounds, not his office. No backroom briefing here.

And POINTEDLY not speaking with Kuhn Samak.

Apparently Samak attended a function at the British Embassy the other night at the invitation of the Ambassador - think it involved a visit of Prince Andrew..

So much for that theory..

EDIT: Sorry about double post - server slow.

Edited September 6, 2008 by thaigene2

[thaigene2]

Quite clearly we are heading for something pretty nasty here as the elite/feudal backers of the PAD feel they are fighting for their priviledged existance (the Feudals, not the PAD).

I think there will need to be a compromise between the Government and the Feudals/Elites (forget the PAD for a minute). If they get their coup, and impsoe an appointed fascist-style right-wing Government, that could be the spark the eventually leads to a civil war. There are so many examples of this in history..the Spanish Civil War is one that pops to mind right away (though the circumstances were a bit different).

There really needs to be a compromise - because while Democracy can and will eventually win the day, the rich and corrupt familes and their 'connections' will always be around. It's time to take a step abck and see to it that they are not cornered, and that they can still have some of their cake, retain their positions in society, but in return allow Thailand and its people to rise as a nation of equals.

To me, this is the right way forward - but it takes BOTH sides to agree to this. If they don't we're in for real trouble this time - no flowers to the soldiers this time I think.

[hammered]

Quite clearly we are heading for something pretty nasty here as the elite/feudal backers of the PAD feel they are fighting for their priviledged existance (the Feudals, not the PAD).

I think there will need to be a compromise between the Government and the Feudals/Elites (forget the PAD for a minute). If they get their coup, and impsoe an appointed fascist-style right-wing Government, that could be the spark the eventually leads to a civil war. There are so many examples of this in history..the Spanish Civil War is one that pops to mind right away (though the circumstances were a bit different).

There really needs to be a compromise - because while Democracy can and will eventually win the day, the rich and corrupt familes and their 'connections' will always be around. It's time to take a step abck and see to it that they are not cornered, and that they can still have some of their cake, retain their positions in society, but in return allow Thailand and its people to rise as a nation of equals.

To me, this is the right way forward - but it takes BOTH sides to agree to this. If they don't we're in for real trouble this time - no flowers to the soldiers this time I think.

Agreed on compromise. And if the powerful people cant reach an agreement acceptable to all then there really isnt much hope.

[ubonjoe]

Quite clearly we are heading for something pretty nasty here as the elite/feudal backers of the PAD feel they are fighting for their priviledged existance (the Feudals, not the PAD).

I think there will need to be a compromise between the Government and the Feudals/Elites (forget the PAD for a minute). If they get their coup, and impsoe an appointed fascist-style right-wing Government, that could be the spark the eventually leads to a civil war. There are so many examples of this in history..the Spanish Civil War is one that pops to mind right away (though the circumstances were a bit different).

There really needs to be a compromise - because while Democracy can and will eventually win the day, the rich and corrupt familes and their 'connections' will always be around. It's time to take a step abck and see to it that they are not cornered, and that they can still have some of their cake, retain their positions in society, but in return allow Thailand and its people to rise as a nation of equals.

To me, this is the right way forward - but it takes BOTH sides to agree to this. If they don't we're in for real trouble this time - no flowers to the soldiers this time I think.

Agreed

But what next?

The referendem as a solution seems to be getting shot down. But I haven't seen a reposne from PAD.

The Senate speaker as a negotiator apparently has been shot down by PAD.

Of course Samak won't talk to PAD and PAD won't talk to him.

Edited September 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[paulfromphuket]

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=784

a interesting twist on the future.

[h90]

I'm Wondering has there been a coup today? But a silent coup.

We have had reports about Samak lifting the SoE, along with conflicting reports that he has enforced 2 more decrees giving absolute power under whatever act it is.

Anupong did a no show at a press conference this morning..., no explanation offered.

Samak has been very quiet indeed (By his standards).

All in all today (Friday) has been a bit odd in terms of what has been reported, quite suspicious in fact.

I am wondering if MAYBE Samak attempted to take absolute control, but Anupong said NO NO NO, and Samak was powerless to do anything. Perhaps Anupong is now in Power whilst reporting to his boss, the #1 boss in the land. If I am right then kudos the military for taking control of bad situation.

****Disclaimer, I may be well off the mark but I am rather drunk. And need to divert my attention to my beloved Swindon Town FC who kick off in 15 minutes*******

That's possible or the other way. Samak is not Mr. Adolf Samak Dictator of Thailand with full control over everything.....

[Bagwan]

So proud of Khun Samak this morning. He said clearly he will not resign. Very tough man. That's the right thing to do. Thailand is in a mess now. He must be here to help clear all problems. Thanks Khun Samak.

Doh! HE IS THE PROBLEM.

[nickh]

No bail for NBT suspects

Sixty-one witnesses have so far been spoken to.

82 people detained after the raid on the offices of the NBT

Police asked the court to deny them bail,

http://www.bangkokpost.com/060908_News/06Sep2008_news07.php

[kurtgruen]

Good morning everyone,

Quote from today's Bangkok Post article...

(BangkokPost.com) - Core leader of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul announced Saturday that he would ordain until he dies if peace and order are maintained in the country and that the group could remove the Samak Sundaravej administration.

My English isn't perfect. Does that mean that he would become a monk for the rest of his life, if the PAD manages to remove the Samak administration? Is that what is meant by ordain? Seems strange, I couldn't see someone as outspoken as Sondhi going into monkhood for the rest of his life. I must be reading this wrong?

I better have my morning coffee first and read it again ;-)

[ubonjoe]

Good morning everyone,

Quote from today's Bangkok Post article...

(BangkokPost.com) - Core leader of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul announced Saturday that he would ordain until he dies if peace and order are maintained in the country and that the group could remove the Samak Sundaravej administration.

My English isn't perfect. Does that mean that he would become a monk for the rest of his life, if the PAD manages to remove the Samak administration? Is that what is meant by ordain? Seems strange, I couldn't see someone as outspoken as Sondhi going into monkhood for the rest of his life. I must be reading this wrong?

I better have my morning coffee first and read it again ;-)

Yes that is what he said.

Maybe he got hit in the head by one the hail stones that fell last night and it reset his brain or something.

Edited September 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[animatic]

i agree so lets to try and find out the truth, oh bugger how do you do that in thailand ? any ideas any one?

News articles by recognized journalists rather than blog entries by unknown writers is a good start.

Yes, then read the opposition and then read between the lines of both.

Then take these formulated ideas and ask and intelligent Thai adult for another opinion

[h90]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

[cmsally]

For the superstitious yesterday was an interesting day with the PAD site getting flooded and the Thai flag ripped from its pole at the nearby army headquarters.

[Bryan in Isaan]

Good morning everyone,

Quote from today's Bangkok Post article...

(BangkokPost.com) - Core leader of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul announced Saturday that he would ordain until he dies if peace and order are maintained in the country and that the group could remove the Samak Sundaravej administration.

My English isn't perfect. Does that mean that he would become a monk for the rest of his life, if the PAD manages to remove the Samak administration? Is that what is meant by ordain? Seems strange, I couldn't see someone as outspoken as Sondhi going into monkhood for the rest of his life. I must be reading this wrong?

I better have my morning coffee first and read it again ;-)

Guess who defines "peace and order". I would give him about 24 hours to defrock, just enough time to get a few photos.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Bryan in Isaan

[kurtgruen]

Good morning everyone,

Quote from today's Bangkok Post article...

(BangkokPost.com) - Core leader of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul announced Saturday that he would ordain until he dies if peace and order are maintained in the country and that the group could remove the Samak Sundaravej administration.

My English isn't perfect. Does that mean that he would become a monk for the rest of his life, if the PAD manages to remove the Samak administration? Is that what is meant by ordain? Seems strange, I couldn't see someone as outspoken as Sondhi going into monkhood for the rest of his life. I must be reading this wrong?

I better have my morning coffee first and read it again ;-)

Yes that is what he said.

Maybe he got hit in the head by one the hail stones that fell last night and it reset his brain or something.

Well, since talk about Buddhism seems to be a no no, I guess I have to say, this is leaving me speechless ;-)

[kurtgruen]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

[kurtgruen]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

[h90]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

I know but this time it makes me worry....

[kurtgruen]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

I know but this time it makes me worry....

I hear ya. I think something is brewing, too. (and it's not good beer)

[Bryan in Isaan]

Quite clearly we are heading for something pretty nasty here as the elite/feudal backers of the PAD feel they are fighting for their privileged existance (the Feudals, not the PAD).

I think there will need to be a compromise between the Government and the Feudals/Elites (forget the PAD for a minute).

.........

To me, this is the right way forward - but it takes BOTH sides to agree to this. If they don't we're in for real trouble this time - no flowers to the soldiers this time I think.

Great post. I hope it happens soon. If the real powers are satisfied I think sondhi and the PAD will "declare victory" and go home.

[Thai at Heart]

Scarier than Samak, a leader on record as having advocated and condoned violence?

In 1976 as interior minister, Samak used his radio programme to stir up hatred against student demonstrators at Thammasat University, intentionally disobeying the Prime Minister's orders to "stop creating divisiveness." In defending the return of dictator Field Marshal Thanom over the radio, Samak told listeners that students demonstrating against the dictator's return were 'committing suicide'.

Flash forward to the aftermath of the 1991 coup. As Deputy Prime Minister in General Suchinda's junta, Samak justified the military's brutal suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators by declaring that the government had the right to do so as long as the United States could send troops to kill people in other countries.

As for blatant divisive propaganda, this must take the biscuit

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

During the first 25 days of the rally, the PAD received 26 million baht and paid 24 million, according to the PAD's coordinator Suriyasai Katasila. During the three months, the PAD has sold 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' t-shirts for 25 million baht, according to political scientist and Sondhi Limthongkul's close associate Chai-Anan Samudavanija. And after the Government House siege, the PAD has 6.6 million baht remaining in its bank accounts, plus gold worth 1,056,000 baht, according to one of the PAD's leaders, Chamlong Srimuang.

The link you cite does not appear to be the source of the economic info you provide after. Where does this info come from, please? Link?

I have wondered at whether there could be a racial component to the fight between PAD and the government. I'm not quite sure I'm really ready to ask that question, but the idea of 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' T-shirts sold makes me wonder all the more...

2. The PAD’s marathon rally seems to be the world’s first demonstration that has been broadcast live through satellite TV, radio and internet, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, for 100 days. That creates a grotesque mix of a reality show and a political campaign, and widens the contemporary western-style ‘audience democracy’, in which people are mostly viewers who vote for professional politicians’ performances through rating polls, to include ‘off the protest site’ virtual participation via tuning to the Manager Group’s FM 97.75 or ASTV.

But, on the other hand, that should make the PAD’s rally the world’s most expensive. 500,000-1,000,000 baht a day are being paid for the rent of the stage and PA system, gasoline for generators, food and allowances for staff, speakers and artists, and salaries and expenses of live broadcasting, while donations and income from selling t-shirts and merchandise are 300,000-1,000,000 baht a day.

With only one day’s budget of the PAD, normal protests by other people or even the pro-government United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) would last a week.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

The PAD-style rally needs huge financial resources, and the fact indicates the social and economic status of its support base.

[paulfromphuket]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

I know but this time it makes me worry....

I hear ya. I think something is brewing, too. (and it's not good beer)

PAD now rearmed with rotting fish declare a new tactic of mass food poisoning leading to uncontrollable outbursts of dioreeha verbally and otherwise

[cmsally]

Scarier than Samak, a leader on record as having advocated and condoned violence?

In 1976 as interior minister, Samak used his radio programme to stir up hatred against student demonstrators at Thammasat University, intentionally disobeying the Prime Minister's orders to "stop creating divisiveness." In defending the return of dictator Field Marshal Thanom over the radio, Samak told listeners that students demonstrating against the dictator's return were 'committing suicide'.

Flash forward to the aftermath of the 1991 coup. As Deputy Prime Minister in General Suchinda's junta, Samak justified the military's brutal suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators by declaring that the government had the right to do so as long as the United States could send troops to kill people in other countries.

As for blatant divisive propaganda, this must take the biscuit

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

During the first 25 days of the rally, the PAD received 26 million baht and paid 24 million, according to the PAD's coordinator Suriyasai Katasila. During the three months, the PAD has sold 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' t-shirts for 25 million baht, according to political scientist and Sondhi Limthongkul's close associate Chai-Anan Samudavanija. And after the Government House siege, the PAD has 6.6 million baht remaining in its bank accounts, plus gold worth 1,056,000 baht, according to one of the PAD's leaders, Chamlong Srimuang.

The link you cite does not appear to be the source of the economic info you provide after. Where does this info come from, please? Link?

I have wondered at whether there could be a racial component to the fight between PAD and the government. I'm not quite sure I'm really ready to ask that question, but the idea of 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' T-shirts sold makes me wonder all the more...

2. The PAD’s marathon rally seems to be the world’s first demonstration that has been broadcast live through satellite TV, radio and internet, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, for 100 days. That creates a grotesque mix of a reality show and a political campaign, and widens the contemporary western-style ‘audience democracy’, in which people are mostly viewers who vote for professional politicians’ performances through rating polls, to include ‘off the protest site’ virtual participation via tuning to the Manager Group’s FM 97.75 or ASTV.

But, on the other hand, that should make the PAD’s rally the world’s most expensive. 500,000-1,000,000 baht a day are being paid for the rent of the stage and PA system, gasoline for generators, food and allowances for staff, speakers and artists, and salaries and expenses of live broadcasting, while donations and income from selling t-shirts and merchandise are 300,000-1,000,000 baht a day.

With only one day’s budget of the PAD, normal protests by other people or even the pro-government United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) would last a week.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

The PAD-style rally needs huge financial resources, and the fact indicates the social and economic status of its support base.

This is true , so as the days go by the stakes get higher and the demands and speeches get more flaky .

Hopefully when the number of zeros on the accounts get sooo many, their brains will overheat and implode.

We can but dream I suppose.

[h90]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

I know but this time it makes me worry....

I hear ya. I think something is brewing, too. (and it's not good beer)

good beer is very rare in Thailand, most probably as rare as honest politicians...

[paulfromphuket]

since yesterday it is so silent...no word from our dearest leader or the army.

Is everyone tired or is something fishy going on?

Something fishy is always going on. TIT

Sorry, I should have written the long version (This Is Thailand), im not trying to call you names, just in case you are not familiar with the abbreviation ;-)

I know but this time it makes me worry....

I hear ya. I think something is brewing, too. (and it's not good beer)

PAD now rearmed with rotting fish declare a new tactic of mass food poisoning leading to uncontrollable outbursts of dioreeha verbally and otherwise

In a move to bring some understanding to the situation the Dead Fish society of Thailand has decided to hold a recital of George W Bush speeches to show that the world is full of verbal diareeha and its not just a local issue