I Would Not Want To Have Just Invested In Property In Bangkok

[bravingbangkok]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

[bkkjames]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

hmmm, even I as one of the biggest skeptics of the local property market have a hard time relating to this first time poster's comments.

perhaps he / she could enlighten us a bit more with some ,,, I don't know....facts perhaps?

thanks

[bravingbangkok]

No facts needed James just common sense. At the rates they are charging some and I do mean some of the condos are priced the same as the same sized condos/apartments in London ! Hows that ? Thailand is not a big economy and the only reason property prices have risen dramatically is because of greedy development firms cashing in while the property market is shit in the west. In Thailand you get what you can when you can, you live for the day not the years to come. I was once told a very wise thing by one of my Thai friends

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Most buildings with Thai/farang quotas have not filled the Thai quota. I wonder why ???????

[bkkjames]

No facts needed James just common sense. At the rates they are charging some and I do mean some of the condos are priced the same as the same sized condos/apartments in London ! Hows that ? Thailand is not a big economy and the only reason property prices have risen dramatically is because of greedy development firms cashing in while the property market is shit in the west. In Thailand you get what you can when you can, you live for the day not the years to come. I was once told a very wise thing by one of my Thai friends

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Most buildings with Thai/farang quotas have not filled the Thai quota. I wonder why ???????

well bravinbangers, I would just say that while your last statement may be true with a very minority of developers (Raimon Land comes to mind), most larger develops such as Sansiri and the like sell the vast majority of their units to Thais.

As for greedy property developers cashing in, I would suggest to you it's a case of supply and demand. If people are willing to pay 150,000 baht a sqm, then so be it.

Just by chance, did you lose a deposit or something on a building that hasn't gone up?

[lannarebirth]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

[Wrong Turn]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

I believe people should only buy property/condo if they can afford to lose it, and not lose any sleep.

Many expats think they need to "buy."

Why not just rent? To each their own of course.

[NotNew2You]

Real property (condo) prices are affected by a variety of factors...obviously demand, desirability of location (part of the world/country), local domestic and foreign investment rules, local development (or lack thereof) controls. I don't know if BKK prices are high, average, or low...but they are what they are (for now).

Read recently that condo/housing prices in Mumbai (Bombay I think) were the most expensive in the WORLD!! Why is that...not because anyone in their right might would chose to live in Mumbai if they had the choice... but it is where Indians (and others) can make allot of money right now and there is not much up to first-world standards that is available so what is is very expensive.

I do find it amusing how the comments of Thai developers constantly compare BKK prices favorabley with singapore or Hong Kong...as if the locations were in any way comparable

Edited September 2, 2008 by NotNew2You

[bravingbangkok]

hehehe no I did not but I can see where you would get that assumption, I bought my condo when the prices where reasonable about 5 years ago. Let me just say that for anyone thinking of buying one of these new condos I would take a serious look into buying a townhouse, For only 5million you can get 3 floors in an area like Sathon. This compared to 10million for an overpriced 60sqm 2 bedroom room in one of these new and fancy condo buildings.

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects, I think the property market is getting a ahead of itself. Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

[bravingbangkok]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

very interesting

I also hate the way investors buy property and then hike up the price afterwards, I mean Ok I know this is part of the game etc etc but they do it to such an extreme. For example a 3 bedroom condo in the new 'NEW YORK' on Petchburi Rd went for around 8mil when they started. I saw someone trying to shift it for 15 750 000 and it has only been two years max since he would have made the downpayment on the unit. This type of thing completely distorts the market and should not be allowed.

[bkkjames]

hehehe no I did not but I can see where you would get that assumption, I bought my condo when the prices where reasonable about 5 years ago. Let me just say that for anyone thinking of buying one of these new condos I would take a serious look into buying a townhouse, For only 5million you can get 3 floors in an area like Sathon. This compared to 10million for an overpriced 60sqm 2 bedroom room in one of these new and fancy condo buildings.

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects, I think the property market is getting a ahead of itself. Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

As I am married and plan to have a family, yes a townhouse is more appealing to me. However, my best mate just bought a second hand freehold 1 bedroom 100sqm place on Luangsuan for 10 million baht.

As a single guy who works on the same soi as his condo, his needs are obviously different than mine and he is happy to pay 70k a month in bank payments

[imaneggspurt]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

I believe people should only buy property/condo if they can afford to lose it, and not lose any sleep.

Many expats think they need to "buy."

Why not just rent? To each their own of course.

Absolutly correct, they seem to come to thailand with the "put your money into bricks and mortar " mentality when in fact it dosent apply in thailand,. the buildings themselves are substandard and not an investment in most cases,.of course there are businessmen that will do it and make money.. but seems to me a lot give retail and sell for trade ! ( if they can sell ). to live in fine, saves rent i suppose, but is it worth the headaches we read about all the time,.?

[bravingbangkok]

hehehe no I did not but I can see where you would get that assumption, I bought my condo when the prices where reasonable about 5 years ago. Let me just say that for anyone thinking of buying one of these new condos I would take a serious look into buying a townhouse, For only 5million you can get 3 floors in an area like Sathon. This compared to 10million for an overpriced 60sqm 2 bedroom room in one of these new and fancy condo buildings.

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects, I think the property market is getting a ahead of itself. Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

As I am married and plan to have a family, yes a townhouse is more appealing to me. However, my best mate just bought a second hand freehold 1 bedroom 100sqm place on Luangsuan for 10 million baht.

As a single guy who works on the same soi as his condo, his needs are obviously different than mine and he is happy to pay 70k a month in bank payments

Well thats my thinking, I already have a child and she is getting bigger by the day and townhouse prices and what you get are looking very tasty indeed.

Wow 70k a month on loan payments is quite a chunk of money for Thailand. Is he just paying the interest and counting on the growth or interest and repayments ?

[bkkjames]

hehehe no I did not but I can see where you would get that assumption, I bought my condo when the prices where reasonable about 5 years ago. Let me just say that for anyone thinking of buying one of these new condos I would take a serious look into buying a townhouse, For only 5million you can get 3 floors in an area like Sathon. This compared to 10million for an overpriced 60sqm 2 bedroom room in one of these new and fancy condo buildings.

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects, I think the property market is getting a ahead of itself. Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

As I am married and plan to have a family, yes a townhouse is more appealing to me. However, my best mate just bought a second hand freehold 1 bedroom 100sqm place on Luangsuan for 10 million baht.

As a single guy who works on the same soi as his condo, his needs are obviously different than mine and he is happy to pay 70k a month in bank payments

Well thats my thinking, I already have a child and she is getting bigger by the day and townhouse prices and what you get are looking very tasty indeed.

Wow 70k a month on loan payments is quite a chunk of money for Thailand. Is he just paying the interest and counting on the growth or interest and repayments ?

I don't have all the details but I think he put 10% down and his term is 20 years from his bank in Europe. Anyways he was renting on Luangsuan for the past 8 years at 40 k a month so time to at least have something to show for it.

[THAIPHUKET]

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects,

why seems nobody concerned about the general expenses of condos the way inflation is going?

How do you check such statements or the underlying Thai-written bills ? This is the main reason why I have been shying away from a condo or any kind of so-called managed property ( even forgetting about inflation)= my inability to control such expenses. They are subject to disputes enough in Europe or the US. But how to dispute here??

I have no problem to take risks as long as I understand them.

Is my thinking wrong ?

[bkkjames]

I would just be very careful about buying into these condo projects,

why seems nobody concerned about the general expenses of condos the way inflation is going?

How do you check such statements or the underlying Thai-written bills ? This is the main reason why I have been shying away from a condo or any kind of so-called managed property ( even forgetting about inflation)= my inability to control such expenses. They are subject to disputes enough in Europe or the US. But how to dispute here??

I have no problem to take risks as long as I understand them.

Is my thinking wrong ?

I agree, the upside of owning your own house / townhouse is that to a degree one can control your own destiny.

For us farangs, the risks of putting it in the Mrs name versus owning a condo in our own are one that each of us has to sort out.

[lannarebirth]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

very interesting

I also hate the way investors buy property and then hike up the price afterwards, I mean Ok I know this is part of the game etc etc but they do it to such an extreme. For example a 3 bedroom condo in the new 'NEW YORK' on Petchburi Rd went for around 8mil when they started. I saw someone trying to shift it for 15 750 000 and it has only been two years max since he would have made the downpayment on the unit. This type of thing completely distorts the market and should not be allowed.

You can't believe everything you see. My wife, when she bought our house, put up a "For Sale" sign the very next day at about 50% more than she paid. When local prices came up to match her sales price, she was scared to death someone might actually buy our home and took the sign down.

Edited September 2, 2008 by lannarebirth

[robbiecia]

Ive been looking around myself

As soon as these condos are started...............they are sold out!!!!

The locals with the money are buying them all up to sell on.

What will be interesting is in a few years time when all these new condo buildings start to look a bit shabby.......(they dont seem to be into building maintenance here)

I agree a townhouse is a good option

[steveromagnino]

Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

Steve Colbert:

'We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.'

Leave the property buying the the buyers, no need to wade in with you 'gutt feeling' mate next you will be telling the people who spent 4m USD buying a villa that they are total idiots, as you sit in your 5m baht slummy townhouse and they look at their net worth of 100m USD and wonder whether they should even care they just spent another 4m on a new toy.

Why don't you tell a bunch more people probably richer and more successful than you how to invest in the stock market and other commodities; I haven't had a really good laugh for a few days ;-)

[bkkjames]

Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

Steve Colbert:

'We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.'

Leave the property buying the the buyers, no need to wade in with you 'gutt feeling' mate next you will be telling the people who spent 4m USD buying a villa that they are total idiots, as you sit in your 5m baht slummy townhouse and they look at their net worth of 100m USD and wonder whether they should even care they just spent another 4m on a new toy.

Why don't you tell a bunch more people probably richer and more successful than you how to invest in the stock market and other commodities; I haven't had a really good laugh for a few days ;-)

And to think I get yellow-carded for being rude, jibes etc. There is no justice da*n it!!!

[zorro1]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

I believe people should only buy property/condo if they can afford to lose it, and not lose any sleep.

Many expats think they need to "buy."

Why not just rent? To each their own of course.

I'm curious as to how people "lose their condos" although its thrown about in nearly every R/E thread. Does someone just take it away or what?

[xbusman]

Zorro, mostly people lose property here from the arbitrary and constant changes in work permit and visa rules. There is the odd fraudulent situation where papers are not in order, forged, or other shenanigans. Occasionally they become uninhabitable from lack of maintenance.

Plenty of ways to lose ones investment here, and new ones being invented every day. As for actually losing a condo as in "dam_n where did I put that last night" it is pretty rare. I think that is more related to developers improperly gaining rights to land (as in Samui) or building incorrectly (as the ones out by MoChit that were too high) or overselling to farangs as the Pattaya group like to do on occasion.

[bravingbangkok]

Sorry If I cannot give you facts James but it is just my gutt feeling that the condo market is going no where but down.

Steve Colbert:

'We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.'

Leave the property buying the the buyers, no need to wade in with you 'gutt feeling' mate next you will be telling the people who spent 4m USD buying a villa that they are total idiots, as you sit in your 5m baht slummy townhouse and they look at their net worth of 100m USD and wonder whether they should even care they just spent another 4m on a new toy.

Why don't you tell a bunch more people probably richer and more successful than you how to invest in the stock market and other commodities; I haven't had a really good laugh for a few days ;-)

I struggled to find the right reply to the above comments and all I can simply say is you seem to have a bit of a problem. What is wrong with buying a 5mil property ? I am only 23 for christ sake, When was I talking about 4milUS$ property ??????? I am talking about condos that have prices that do not relate to the current politial and economical climate and you start going on about millions of $ investments and insulting me !

Sad...very sad !

Edited September 2, 2008 by bravingbangkok

[zorro1]

Zorro, mostly people lose property here from the arbitrary and constant changes in work permit and visa rules. There is the odd fraudulent situation where papers are not in order, forged, or other shenanigans. Occasionally they become uninhabitable from lack of maintenance.

Plenty of ways to lose ones investment here, and new ones being invented every day. As for actually losing a condo as in "dam_n where did I put that last night" it is pretty rare. I think that is more related to developers improperly gaining rights to land (as in Samui) or building incorrectly (as the ones out by MoChit that were too high) or overselling to farangs as the Pattaya group like to do on occasion.

My previous post was sarcastic somewhat and was hoping wrong turn would answer. changes to visas wouldn't have an impact on ownership if I'm reading you correctly the person is unable to stay but the property is still his allowing him/her to sell or rent. Lack of maintenance is a concern as it is in other countries same with fraud and building outside parameters. I really don't see it being that much different to anywhere else of course unless were talking land in the wife's name

Edited September 2, 2008 by zorro1

[Heng]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

Yeah, my observation as well. Many are buying and many are selling (it's about 50-50... funny how that works out), but the # of transactions seems to be going up.

There's blood on the street now, so everyone should draw their own conclusions as to what they should be doing.

[Wrong Turn]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

I believe people should only buy property/condo if they can afford to lose it, and not lose any sleep.

Many expats think they need to "buy."

Why not just rent? To each their own of course.

Absolutly correct, they seem to come to thailand with the "put your money into bricks and mortar " mentality when in fact it dosent apply in thailand,. the buildings themselves are substandard and not an investment in most cases,.of course there are businessmen that will do it and make money.. but seems to me a lot give retail and sell for trade ! ( if they can sell ). to live in fine, saves rent i suppose, but is it worth the headaches we read about all the time,.?

I know people going through issues first-hand from this. I'll rent. I'll also keep my funds invested in my home country where they cannot be stolen.

[Heng]

You are an idiot if you bought property in the last 2 years in Bangkok, get out now ! 100 000 up oer sq m has no relation to the Thai econmy or current unstable position, yes you have been mugged !

I believe people should only buy property/condo if they can afford to lose it, and not lose any sleep.

Many expats think they need to "buy."

Why not just rent? To each their own of course.

Absolutly correct, they seem to come to thailand with the "put your money into bricks and mortar " mentality when in fact it dosent apply in thailand

It applies here just like anywhere else, but here it's limited to locals and to a lesser extent foreigners who happen to have solid relationships with their local spouses (funny how people like to gloss over this one by blaming the legal system instead of their own house- of-cards type relationships), and of course foreigners with solid corporate foundations.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Heng

[xbusman]

Zorro, mostly people lose property here from the arbitrary and constant changes in work permit and visa rules. There is the odd fraudulent situation where papers are not in order, forged, or other shenanigans. Occasionally they become uninhabitable from lack of maintenance.

Plenty of ways to lose ones investment here, and new ones being invented every day. As for actually losing a condo as in "dam_n where did I put that last night" it is pretty rare. I think that is more related to developers improperly gaining rights to land (as in Samui) or building incorrectly (as the ones out by MoChit that were too high) or overselling to farangs as the Pattaya group like to do on occasion.

My previous post was sarcastic somewhat and was hoping wrong turn would answer. changes to visas wouldn't have an impact on ownership if I'm reading you correctly the person is unable to stay but the property is still his allowing him/her to sell or rent. Lack of maintenance is a concern as it is in other countries same with fraud and building outside parameters. I really don't see it being that much different to anywhere else of course unless were talking land in the wife's name

You are correct, the problem being is that it can be challenging to sell property when you are in it, but when you are persona non grata I think it might be infinitely more challenging. Then the problem of getting the money out of the country, the paperwork, etc. Not something I would want to face. Hard enough to get things done when here.

Regards the fraud, in countries with the rule of law, you might have a fighting chance. Here, you have little to no chance of prevailing in the Judicial system. Way too many proofs of that theorem to even open that can of worms. It is frighteningly different than the west as is any third world country where the law is used more to control the population than to protect them. That is probably the hardest thing for expats to come to terms with, its so alien to our thought process and cultural assumptions. Its this environment that sustains the fraud and forgery.

[cloudhopper]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

There seems to be a lot of buying of seemingly dubious assets like non-profitable guesthouses as well. Possibly due to the recent reduction in bank deposit guarantees? Money laundering? Prospects of further flipping to others with these same concerns? In the end those who are successful in businesses legit or otherwise here have to do something with their cash I guess.

[mgjackson69]

"When in doubt do what the Thais are doing"

Thais are on a buying spree of undeveloped ocean land in the south and agricultual land in the north. I have no idea what the're doing in Bangkok, but there is more buying activity going on in land than in the 6 years I have been here, from my personal observations. Maybe they're buying the top, I don't know.

very interesting

I also hate the way investors buy property and then hike up the price afterwards, I mean Ok I know this is part of the game etc etc but they do it to such an extreme. For example a 3 bedroom condo in the new 'NEW YORK' on Petchburi Rd went for around 8mil when they started. I saw someone trying to shift it for 15 750 000 and it has only been two years max since he would have made the downpayment on the unit. This type of thing completely distorts the market and should not be allowed.

You can't believe everything you see. My wife, when she bought our house, put up a "For Sale" sign the very next day at about 50% more than she paid. When local prices came up to match her sales price, she was scared to death someone might actually buy our home and took the sign down.

Exactly so...just because someone is *asking* some price does not mean that is the *market rate*. People can ask any price they want...it does not mean people are paying that price.

My wife bought our house in Chok Chai several years ago for about 500,000 THB. I can stick a sign out front today "FOR SALE 1,000,000 THB". That does not mean the house is worth that, or that similar houses here are selling for that amount.

Now, if someone comes along and offers to buy at that price, then the house *is* worth 1,000,000 THB, at least to *that* buyer.

The point is, you cannot look at asking prices as any sort of guage of the market.

[zorro1]

A challenge for sure but not a loss as posted. Many dodgy builders world wide although mainly private contractors to build a house have left half way through the project with minimal chance of seeing any refunds. Fraud I agree is more wide spread here. In general once your deeds in hand and building is complete its 99.99% yours until you sell.

Edited September 2, 2008 by zorro1