Samak Will Announce Resignation Thursday Morning?

[Jai Dee]

PAD refutes all of PMs words

People's Alliance for Democracy leaders Piphop Thongchai (พิภพ ธงไชย) and Somsak Kosaisuk (สมศักดิ์ โกศัยสุข) responded to the Prime Minister's special radio session this morning, saying that many of the PM's facts and issues were untrue or misconstrued.

The PAD expressed their opinion that the PM's speech was only an appeal for sympathy from the public and then proceeded to refute and deny his entire speech. The group also said that with new issues arising, it will not assure that the government's resignation will prompt the demonstration to disperse.

As for threatened power and water outages to be carried about by state enterprise unions, the PAD admitted that the ultimate severing of such services were in the hands of their operators and the PAD could only support the idea of outages.

However, the PAD affirmed it would seek definite measures to proceed with its defiance of the government.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

[ubonjoe]

It seems we have two threads going where the discussion is the same.

Maybe it's time to end one .

[sriracha john]

Post #401 on a thread that was based on a rumor that has since been disproved.

Time for sanity? The other thread is better suited.

*edit... it's now 428 based upon the number of posts added since I clicked on add reply.

Edited September 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[harrry]

"We landed on the moon?"

Depends who you believe, some say it was a shame put on display for political reasons

That was the American moon that was landed on...the thi one is different it has a rabbit on it.

[h90]

There are rumours that sections of the civil service are no longer following government instructions including some senior ones. Well it may not be noticeable too as the government dont seem to be doing any work, but it does put how deep the crisis goes into perspective if true.

How do you strike if your boss don't give you any work to do?

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Just a few little points:

There has been much said about Abhisit's lack of leadership qualities. I have spent this past week glued to the television listening to the Parliament debate and I have developed a huge amount of admiration for the Democrat's sensible, calm but continued questions as to the government's numerous questionable acts and proposals. Unfortunately Abhisit does not have any other platform in which to speak as the government controls the state run channels, but if you listen to the one time his voice is heard on national tv, in parliamentary debate, you will see that he is doing an excellent job.

Another more contencious point is when numerous Americans have raised the issue of how Americans accepted Bush's less than proper win to become president, comparing it with the Thai situation and how Americans didn't take to the streets of protest, saying that why should Thais not accept things too...well, maybe the world would have been far better off if Americans had actually cared enough to come out in protest and put the rightful man in charge?

Oh, and the entire democratically elected argument. Why go back that far, the government has lost its mandate to rule - democratically elected or not - when it began widespread corruption, broke the law, constitution yadayadayada.

And just a very personal anecdote. On Monday we talked to our staff and said to them that if they wanted to take time off to protest (on either side) they could do so, though we asked for advanced notice. Many of them pretty much said that both sides were rubbish, they were sick of it all and while they wanted Samak out, they disagreed with PAD, but one guy said, "My head doesn't agree with PAD, but my heart and spirit is with them.' This sentiment was echoed throughout the office.

[uha]

In Post No. 20, Sunderland wrote

"My source confirms that Samak will announce his resignation in the morning.

If he doesn't, I will run naked through the PAD crowd."

Well, I'll be delighted to see the pictures of this very special event!!!

[Plus]

If anyone hasn't read the Sondhi interview in this morning's Post- I strongly urge them to.

I liked this part: "We don't mind what the proportion will be between elected and appointed representatives (in parliament) as long as the people are allowed a direct role in running the country. Even if it's 20% direct participation by the people, it is a victory for us (the PAD)."

Then he goes on to lambast the current system where MPs are put in office by financiers, not by the people, and how people are left without any representation, only the name "democracy".

Looking at the current parlament, the man has certainly got a point there.

[Plus]

Now they have decided to have a referendum. Great, it would give them a couple of months to organise one, and then, even if they win, PAD would tell them to stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. What can the government do about it?

In the meantime the country will stay ungovernable.

Or maybe Samak will be taken to jail later this month when his appeal is up.

[cmsally]

The two interviews with Somsak and Sondhi seem to speak volumes.

Namely one condition for the govt is to promise not to alter the constitution and then the PAD goes along and shoots itself directly in the foot to say that they would consider suspending article 171 thus enabling someone other than an MP to become PM. OK so govt can't change constitution but you can.

Also mentioned is that a new PM would have to be completely clean and not a member of the cabinet. So where are you going to find him. The dialogue seems to suggest no one is good enough as the conditions shift continuously.

Then Suriyasai adds fuel to the fire by saying even if there is a resignation this might not be enough for them to disband. Think we have heard that before , the goalposts continually move.

Somsak interview

The Sondhi interview (sorry lost link but it was quoted earlier) again brings up this idea of New Politics. OK so maybe 50:50 instead of 70:30 elected.

But this people participation thing is just looking weirder by the hour.

This New Politics thing is obviously not just a passing whim and is based very deeply in the fourth condition they are demanding.

For me PAD have lost all credibility unless maybe you are on some mind altering substance. It looks more like he croquet game in Alice in Wonderland where the hoops and balls etc change by the minute just so she (the character - I think it was a queen or duchess) wins.

[h90]

Just a few little points:

There has been much said about Abhisit's lack of leadership qualities. I have spent this past week glued to the television listening to the Parliament debate and I have developed a huge amount of admiration for the Democrat's sensible, calm but continued questions as to the government's numerous questionable acts and proposals. Unfortunately Abhisit does not have any other platform in which to speak as the government controls the state run channels, but if you listen to the one time his voice is heard on national tv, in parliamentary debate, you will see that he is doing an excellent job.

Another more contencious point is when numerous Americans have raised the issue of how Americans accepted Bush's less than proper win to become president, comparing it with the Thai situation and how Americans didn't take to the streets of protest, saying that why should Thais not accept things too...well, maybe the world would have been far better off if Americans had actually cared enough to come out in protest and put the rightful man in charge?

Oh, and the entire democratically elected argument. Why go back that far, the government has lost its mandate to rule - democratically elected or not - when it began widespread corruption, broke the law, constitution yadayadayada.

And just a very personal anecdote. On Monday we talked to our staff and said to them that if they wanted to take time off to protest (on either side) they could do so, though we asked for advanced notice. Many of them pretty much said that both sides were rubbish, they were sick of it all and while they wanted Samak out, they disagreed with PAD, but one guy said, "My head doesn't agree with PAD, but my heart and spirit is with them.' This sentiment was echoed throughout the office.

If Abhisit does not has any other platform, why doesn't he create a platform?

Rent advertising space and fill it with Samaks face and "Samak lies"?? Sure there are other smarter, cheaper ways to get public attention...

[Plus]

PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution to find a legal way out of a stalemate situation. Samak wants to alter the laws to save his ass from prosecution. Don't you see the difference?

There's also parlamentary commitee that studies amendments to the consitution as a whole. They point to a different set of problems.

Sondhi is opposing only Samaks unilateral and self serving change. Where is inconsistency there?

As for shifting goalposts - all negotiations will start only after Samak's resignation, and it would depend on the way he goes - all by himself, with his Cabinet, or whith the whole House. For now no one can predict what will be the best possible resolution, nothing is cast in stone.

[Plus]

If Abhisit does not has any other platform, why doesn't he create a platform?

Actually the Democrat party has an entire shadow cabinet with its own set of policies for every ministry. Sometimes they agree with the government, sometimes they don't.

Are you surprised that the media coverage of their activities and policies is minimal?

The government refused to provide an air time to Abhisit for a reason, and it wasn't his lack of policies.

[tomo22]

I just told the wife about this "news", and she asks why it is not being reported on TV? Then I log on to here and see it is merely a rumor. Passing on rumors this way is not very helpful, in my estimation, anyone can dream up stuff like that. Let's see what happens tomorrow, huh?

samak the bungling fool dreamed up a rumor that he was going to get arrested at the airport once. it never happened of course.

but that was newsworthy enough for the newspapers at least.

its truly amazing people actually votes for this moron. and will probably continute to vote for whoever the next puppet is

People who vote for the likes of Samak and Thaksin are the uneducated masses and as long as Thailand does nothing to improve the educational system in this country (standards and access to a full 12 years of school), nothing will change. The elite like to keep the upcountry folks dumb to keep them down, but what the elite get in return is the likes of Samak and Thaksin running the country.

You have hit the nail square on the head.

A very big percentage of village people have never gotten much further than the next couple of villages. They know zip about democracy or how a democracy works.

While they continue to sell their votes nothing is gonna change any time soon. Not in my life time (nor my children's either)

I am having to restrain myself from using several 4 letter words in this reply.

.

I am so tired of people that call the rural people uneducated, dumb and etc.

In reality it makes a lot of you appear uneducated.

And now I read the following statement.

"A very big percentage of village people have never gotten much further than the next couple of villages."

I am sure that there are many on this forum that has never been to or much less live in a small village.

How long has the rural areas been sending its children to work in Bangkok and to other parts of the country to work. Many are now middle aged along with others that have returned.

They do know about democracy and through their experience away from the village have realized how unequal thins are here. They have seen areas that have good roads, irrigation systems, water systems that work, telephones, better health care, better schools and much more.

That is why they are voting for a party that has made efforts to end the inequality.

In jest I have told my wife that we don't have good roads here because a lot of people in Bangkok think we still ride Buffalos so we don't even need roads. But at times I really do think it's true.

Yes I live in a small village some of the time the rest of the time in a very small Town and agree with most of your sentiments.

The only problem being that when the go to work in Bangkok they are Discriminated against and generally only get the lesser jobs.

When they come back to their villages it is normally during a holiday period.

From my personal experience they do not get engaged in political talk. They are back in the Village to Party and have a good time.

Yes education is going forward at a slow pace. My personal village has built their own roads from money they received from the government.

But I also know other villages nearby where the money seems to Disappear.

Since marrying my wife 7 years and coming to live here for 3 years now. I have hopefully made a positive impact on the Local community.

I think you are like me. Love Isan People and want to help them.

Thanks

You are correct that many come back for holidays. Many also travel home for elections to cast their vote.

In our village we have several that have come back after saving money to build house's or improve the family home and stay to work the family's land. The have been able to buy TacTac's, tractors and etc.to make the job less labor intensive.. These are the one's I am talking about.

We have some good people handling the money here in the sub district and villages so the money seems to go the right way. But there never seems to be enough of it to do the road repairs correctly.

I have the same feelings as you.

Married about seven years also. Built a house shortly after and stayed unless I was outside the country working.

My wife is Village Headman (person) so I know a little about the politics here.

A again thanks to you and others that have supported me on this.

I will always support the true people from anywhere who come to share what they can with the wonderful Isan people. Like you the head of the family is the local Boss. But as you say money is tight and runs out quick. But like you and your family he tries to do well for everyone. I wonder if some of these other posters are the same mind.

Could never have put it more succinct and straight to the point as some of the topics you have started.

Thank you and long may ISAN RULE.

[sensei]

My source confirms that Samak will announce his resignation in the morning.

If he doesn't, I will run naked through the PAD crowd.

Start running!

[Samuian]

The two interviews with Somsak and Sondhi seem to speak volumes.

Namely one condition for the govt is to promise not to alter the constitution and then the PAD goes along and shoots itself directly in the foot to say that they would consider suspending article 171 thus enabling someone other than an MP to become PM. OK so govt can't change constitution but you can.

For me PAD have lost all credibility unless maybe you are on some mind altering substance. It looks more like he croquet game in Alice in Wonderland where the hoops and balls etc change by the minute just so she (the character - I think it was a queen or duchess) wins.

Well intention to change the 171 is to avoid new elections and just to replce the PM with a MP... which is a rather transparent action on the contrary the parlament wants to change several issues/articles to serve their and their masters needs ... we know what is that all about.. forgot?

Concerning the PAD one poster wrote so wonderfully: "My head doesn't agree with them, but my heart and soul are with them!"

Hit's the nail on it's head, at least for me!

[ubonjoe]

Update from the Bangkok Post

Referendum on the crisis

The government on Thursday approved an up-or-down national vote of confidence with a referendum that will ask every voting citizen the question: Do you want the government to continue in office?

Minister of Culture Somsak Kiatsuranond briefed the media on the proposal after the special cabinet meeting.

No date has been set for the vote, approved only in principle by the cabinet. The Council of State is to work out a ballot question and details of the referendum.

He said the cabinet members see a referendum that asks several questions - even giving voters an opportunity to comment on the ongoing political crisis and standoff in Bangkok. Questions might include whether voters approve of the government, want it to resign, or favour a new election.

"Prime Minister Samak (Sundaravej) sees this as the best solution," said Mr Somsak.

The ballot will ask one simple question, whether voters want the government to stay in power, Mr Somsak said.

[wxpwzrd]

Update from the Bangkok Post

Referendum on the crisis

The government on Thursday approved an up-or-down national vote of confidence with a referendum that will ask every voting citizen the question: Do you want the government to continue in office?

Minister of Culture Somsak Kiatsuranond briefed the media on the proposal after the special cabinet meeting.

No date has been set for the vote, approved only in principle by the cabinet. The Council of State is to work out a ballot question and details of the referendum.

He said the cabinet members see a referendum that asks several questions - even giving voters an opportunity to comment on the ongoing political crisis and standoff in Bangkok. Questions might include whether voters approve of the government, want it to resign, or favour a new election.

"Prime Minister Samak (Sundaravej) sees this as the best solution," said Mr Somsak.

The ballot will ask one simple question, whether voters want the government to stay in power, Mr Somsak said.

And Sammy says "vote for our government or we will take back our money."

[jitagon]

Just a few little points:

There has been much said about Abhisit's lack of leadership qualities. I have spent this past week glued to the television listening to the Parliament debate and I have developed a huge amount of admiration for the Democrat's sensible, calm but continued questions as to the government's numerous questionable acts and proposals. Unfortunately Abhisit does not have any other platform in which to speak as the government controls the state run channels, but if you listen to the one time his voice is heard on national tv, in parliamentary debate, you will see that he is doing an excellent job.

Another more contencious point is when numerous Americans have raised the issue of how Americans accepted Bush's less than proper win to become president, comparing it with the Thai situation and how Americans didn't take to the streets of protest, saying that why should Thais not accept things too...well, maybe the world would have been far better off if Americans had actually cared enough to come out in protest and put the rightful man in charge?

Oh, and the entire democratically elected argument. Why go back that far, the government has lost its mandate to rule - democratically elected or not - when it began widespread corruption, broke the law, constitution yadayadayada.

And just a very personal anecdote. On Monday we talked to our staff and said to them that if they wanted to take time off to protest (on either side) they could do so, though we asked for advanced notice. Many of them pretty much said that both sides were rubbish, they were sick of it all and while they wanted Samak out, they disagreed with PAD, but one guy said, "My head doesn't agree with PAD, but my heart and spirit is with them.' This sentiment was echoed throughout the office.

Is this the kind of 'democracy' Samak's banging on about? What kind of democracy is it when the Opposition is allowed no platform on which to oppose?

Edited September 4, 2008 by jitagon

[Thai at Heart]

The two interviews with Somsak and Sondhi seem to speak volumes.

Namely one condition for the govt is to promise not to alter the constitution and then the PAD goes along and shoots itself directly in the foot to say that they would consider suspending article 171 thus enabling someone other than an MP to become PM. OK so govt can't change constitution but you can.

Also mentioned is that a new PM would have to be completely clean and not a member of the cabinet. So where are you going to find him. The dialogue seems to suggest no one is good enough as the conditions shift continuously.

Then Suriyasai adds fuel to the fire by saying even if there is a resignation this might not be enough for them to disband. Think we have heard that before , the goalposts continually move.

Somsak interview

The Sondhi interview (sorry lost link but it was quoted earlier) again brings up this idea of New Politics. OK so maybe 50:50 instead of 70:30 elected.

But this people participation thing is just looking weirder by the hour.

This New Politics thing is obviously not just a passing whim and is based very deeply in the fourth condition they are demanding.

For me PAD have lost all credibility unless maybe you are on some mind altering substance. It looks more like he croquet game in Alice in Wonderland where the hoops and balls etc change by the minute just so she (the character - I think it was a queen or duchess) wins.

"Selected" peoples increased participation on the basis of his specific demands.

[auserb]

My source confirms that Samak will announce his resignation in the morning.

If he doesn't, I will run naked through the PAD crowd.

Start running!

I told you sooooooo....

as he said ....start running my friend he he ...."go ahead make my day .

[Plus]

Yes, and "specific demands" are that people applying for positions must be true representatives of various social groups, not puppets of wealthy financiers, and not assorted relatives of feudal clans.

Is it really that bad?

The structural problem with current system is the huge gap between what is presented on paper (elected representatives) and what happens in real life (frontmen for anonimous investors).

Like Sondhi said - you can't represent people if you borrowed 30 million to run in elections. You will have to repay your debts, not serve the public.

[wimster]

It is all in his name: Samak

Stubborn Arrogant Man Ass Kissing

[slimdog]

PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution

You dont see the irony...

In 1992 Chamlong went onto the streets in order to change just one article of the constitution, and that was that the Prime Minister must be elected from Parliament. How many people died to get this included in the Constitution...

In 2008 Chamlong is again back on the streets, and the only article in the constitution that he says can be changed is that the Prime Minister doesn't need to come from Parliament...

Personally I call it f###ing ironic

[sriracha john]

Just a few little points:

There has been much said about Abhisit's lack of leadership qualities. I have spent this past week glued to the television listening to the Parliament debate and I have developed a huge amount of admiration for the Democrat's sensible, calm but continued questions as to the government's numerous questionable acts and proposals. Unfortunately Abhisit does not have any other platform in which to speak as the government controls the state run channels, but if you listen to the one time his voice is heard on national tv, in parliamentary debate, you will see that he is doing an excellent job.

Another more contencious point is when numerous Americans have raised the issue of how Americans accepted Bush's less than proper win to become president, comparing it with the Thai situation and how Americans didn't take to the streets of protest, saying that why should Thais not accept things too...well, maybe the world would have been far better off if Americans had actually cared enough to come out in protest and put the rightful man in charge?

Oh, and the entire democratically elected argument. Why go back that far, the government has lost its mandate to rule - democratically elected or not - when it began widespread corruption, broke the law, constitution yadayadayada.

And just a very personal anecdote. On Monday we talked to our staff and said to them that if they wanted to take time off to protest (on either side) they could do so, though we asked for advanced notice. Many of them pretty much said that both sides were rubbish, they were sick of it all and while they wanted Samak out, they disagreed with PAD, but one guy said, "My head doesn't agree with PAD, but my heart and spirit is with them.' This sentiment was echoed throughout the office.

Is this the kind of 'democracy' Samak's banging on about? What kind of democracy is it when the Opposition is allowed no platform on which to oppose?

Platform has multiple meanings and I believe you're misunderstanding its use in this context.

[ubonjoe]

Post #401 on a thread that was based on a rumor that has since been disproved.

Time for sanity? The other thread is better suited.

*edit... it's now 428 based upon the number of posts added since I clicked on add reply.

It's now 449

[Rasseru]

I worked there for two years after many years as an investigative reporter in the U.S. They're [sic] standards for writing articles are quite low.

Your post is quite convincing.

[cmsally]

PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution

You dont see the irony...

In 1992 Chamlong went onto the streets in order to change just one article of the constitution, and that was that the Prime Minister must be elected from Parliament. How many people died to get this included in the Constitution...

In 2008 Chamlong is again back on the streets, and the only article in the constitution that he says can be changed is that the Prime Minister doesn't need to come from Parliament...

Personally I call it f###ing ironic

Seems rather accurate

Democracy and human security

Wonder why Chamlong changed his mind?

[DNPBC0]

Suthin suggested for a referendum to be held with three simple questions which the voters could answer by yes or no.

1. Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?

2. Should the PAD continue or end its protests?

3. Should the PAD's proposal on new politics to revamp the electoral system be accepted?"

It beats me what they think result will be. The Kingdom is highly polarised and apparently split almost 50:50. How will a referendum help under these circumstances - unless of course it is delayed, but then what happens meantime?

[duncaw]

Suthin suggested for a referendum to be held with three simple questions which the voters could answer by yes or no.

1. Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?

2. Should the PAD continue or end its protests?

3. Should the PAD's proposal on new politics to revamp the electoral system be accepted?"

It beats me what they think result will be. The Kingdom is highly polarised and apparently split almost 50:50. How will a referendum help under these circumstances - unless of course it is delayed, but then what happens meantime?

Don't really see how questions 1 or 2 could be answered yes or no.

Q: Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?

A: Yes