Samak Will Announce Resignation Thursday Morning?

[ham]

He seems to be really nut's (Samak)

check here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=130361

and you know, he has no support at all from the real power in Thailand, he is alone there!! He just don't get it!

This guy is made, and cool that the Thais found out early enough, that's why it happen, what happen right now.

[britmaveric]

When is Sunderland going to leg it through the PAD lines naked???

[ham]

He seems to be really nut's (Samak)

check here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=130361

and you know, he has no support at all from the real power in Thailand, he is alone there!! He just don't get it!

This guy is made, and cool that the Thais found out early enough, that's why it happen, what happen right now.

sorry I want to say "mad"

[skooldaze]

Rumours spread Samak will announce resignation Thursday morning

BANGKOK: -- Rumours had it throughout the day that Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej was granted an audience with His Majesty the King to inform His Majesty of his intention to resign.

The rumours said Samak had booked time slot of Radio Thailand at 7:30 am to announce his resignation.

-- The Nation 2008-09-03

For the nation to be printing this kind of "rumour" in light of the situation in Bangkok, must go down as some of the most irresponsible reporting I have ever seen in my life. Only 10 hours to go, lets hope the mob is living in a goldfish bowl and doesn't hear it too.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Don't believe anything The Nation writes based on an anonymous source. They NEVER double- or triple-check their facts as one other writer incorrectly postulated:

I won't quit nor dissolve House: Samak

By The Nation

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej insisted on Thursday that he has no plans to resign, saying he will stay on to protect democracy of the country.

He said in a state-run radio programme broadcast nationwide that he needed to uphold the rule of law because Thailand is not a barbaric country.

"How could I resign? I cannot resign. I will not dissolve the House," Samak said.

"I will stay on to protect democracy of this country. The whole world is watching us."

"I need to uphold the rule of law because we are not a barbaric country," the prime minister added.

The special radio programme was organized at 7.30am as Samak said he wished to explain the political chaos to people in upcountry who he said did not agree with what People's Alliance for Democracy has done.

The talk is also aimed to convince people in other provinces who planned to join the protests in Bangkok to change their mind.

Samak said he learnt from reports on several TV stations about the speculation of his resignation.

He repeated his accusations on PAD leaders who led the occupation of the Government House since last week that who they are and whether they had rights to oust him.

Yesterday speculations spread that Samak planned to announce his resignation in his today radio programme.

There were three scenarios for embattled prime minister; dissolving Parliament, resigning to pave the way for a new coalition government and resigning to result in formation of a national unity government.

In the third scenario, Parliament will need to support an amendment of Article 171 of the Constitution, under which the prime minister must be a Member of Parliament.

[t.s]

I miss Chuan, i think it is a shame that Thailand couldn't see an honest, level-headed man for what he was.

[Tony Clifton]

"I cannot leave because under a democratic system no one group can force me to resign," Samak said.

How about a group of judges with a decision to dissolve and ban your executive PPP members for 5 years because of electoral fraud? Coming up!

I seem to remember him commenting this morning that it was now the army's job to disloge the PAD protest?

How's that for a PM and his corrupt police force for washing their hands of the situation after an abvious ballet the other night with govt./DAAD/POLICe working hand in hand.

Still nothing but a façade.

[Meerkat]

One of the reasons I think holding new elections as a way out of this mess is a bad idea, is the overhang of electoral fraud cases from the last one. You could have the ridiculous situation of candidates - and parties - standing for (and perhaps winning) elections and then subsequently being found guilty of fraud in a previous one.

Remember too that it is not only the PPP and its allies involved as some seem to think. There is still a red-card case against one of the Democrat executives; a guilty verdict there and that party is up for dissolution too (and I think that means a mandatory 5 year ban for all executives - including Abhisit. I'm happy to be corrected there as I'm not sure about that last part). This is of course why we've seen both the PPP and the Dems reduce the size of their executive cores. It's nothing but a device to minimise the chances of a whole party ban on the back of one or more bad eggs.

Going slightly off-track, IMO for this reason the government is right to want to change the collective punishment part of the electoral fraud laws, but (and I suspect here is where my views and those of the PPP diverge) I'd like to see harsher penalties against individuals. Jail and/or a lifetime ban from elected office might deter at least some of them. I'd also insist that the laws are not used retroactively to excuse transgressions from the last election.

All of the fraud cases should be wrapped up to their appellate conclusions before new elections are held.

Thanks for the clarification on the voting structure btw Hammered. Nothing is at it seems!

[hammered]

I miss Chuan, i think it is a shame that Thailand couldn't see an honest, level-headed man for what he was.

He was also not a soldier, not a policeman and not a blue blood. But he was boring!

[RadioCityMike]

Nowhere near 40 million. The PPP earned only 14 mil votes (same as the Demos, more or less) in the 2007 parliamentary elections, and their popularity - along with Samak's - has taken a considerable dive since then.

You forgot the 26 million constituency votes. 14 million was just the proportional bit.

Full results of the election here.

Technical point but you cant use the constituency vote as a direct amount of votes received. If you add them up you will find they exceed the electorate of Thailand! The reason is that some constituencies had one MP, some 2 and many three so in many places people had up to three votes. The constituency tally is just a raw number that doesnt indicate one person's vote as different people had different voting rigths depending on constituency. Maybe not exactly a good system if one believes in OMOV but.... The only indicator of vote tally in terms of one person one vote is the party list vote.

But, there are also a number of people that would never vote for Samak or PPP, but are happy that he did not resign because of the methods employed to try to force him out or because they do not know who or what would replace him.

[hammered]

One of the reasons I think holding new elections as a way out of this mess is a bad idea, is the overhang of electoral fraud cases from the last one. You could have the ridiculous situation of candidates - and parties - standing for (and perhaps winning) elections and then subsequently being found guilty of fraud in a previous one.

Remember too that it is not only the PPP and its allies involved as some seem to think. There is still a red-card case against one of the Democrat executives; a guilty verdict there and that party is up for dissolution too (and I think that means a mandatory 5 year ban for all executives - including Abhisit. I'm happy to be corrected there as I'm not sure about that last part). This is of course why we've seen both the PPP and the Dems reduce the size of their executive cores. It's nothing but a device to minimise the chances of a whole party ban on the back of one or more bad eggs.

Going slightly off-track, IMO for this reason the government is right to want to change the collective punishment part of the electoral fraud laws, but (and I suspect here is where my views and those of the PPP diverge) I'd like to see harsher penalties against individuals. Jail and/or a lifetime ban from elected office might deter at least some of them. I'd also insist that the laws are not used retroactively to excuse transgressions from the last election.

All of the fraud cases should be wrapped up to their appellate conclusions before new elections are held.

Thanks for the clarification on the voting structure btw Hammered. Nothing is at it seems!

Within a parliamentary constituency based system it is possible to change PM (happens in many places) without an election. This could avoid the need for election, leave a new PPP MP in charge and calm things. Of course the PAD woudl have to leave GH and face up to their charges. I agree with you about another election causing all kinds of headaches right now. Anyway we are less than a year since the last one.

[farangtingtong]

Hopefully its just a rumour - Thailand doesn't need Samak, but it needs the govt to stand up and squash the PAD for this political blackmail. If he resigns this definitely isn't good for Thailand and then we will repeat the same rubbish again and again.

Nobody seems to agree with you, but I do; if that's of any value.

[RadioCityMike]

He seems to be really nut's (Samak)

check here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=130361

and you know, he has no support at all from the real power in Thailand, he is alone there!! He just don't get it!

This guy is made, and cool that the Thais found out early enough, that's why it happen, what happen right now.

sorry I want to say "mad"

Don't worry. You were talking about Samak. We all know he is mad. :-) Both kinds. Angry mad and crazy mad.

But many people don't like what PAD is doing to the Prime Minister of Thailand. It is not right. Sorry.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I miss Chuan, i think it is a shame that Thailand couldn't see an honest, level-headed man for what he was.

Oh I think that's widely accepted, Chuan is an honest, level-headed man, no doubt about it.

He also couldn't run a country/economy to save is life, was completely spineless to stand up for anything, and ignored the poorer regions who could have benefitted from more pro-active government policies, projects and incentives.

Nice guy, but not to run a country.

Edited September 4, 2008 by WinnieTheKhwai

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps its time for the Election Commission of Thailand to have a bit of scrutiny?

What is its vested interest? Is it independent. Last month there were multiple threads saying one couldn't get justice in Thailand, claims that judges were bought from top to bottom. There have also been multiple threads stating that all politicians in thailand were corrupt and had vested interests.

The Constitution empowers the Supreme Court to nominate 10 candidates for the five-member commission, which is finalized by the Senate.

In light of the manner in which the EC is appointed, how come, all of a sudden some of the very same people claiming corruption in the judiciary , conflict of interest in the senate see the EC as pristine pure, free of possible taint?

IThe EC might very well be decent and honest. However, for the sake of consistency annd logic, those that previously claimed evil in the political system and the courts, must now accept the potential for evil in the EC. Old saying in the legal system that the fruit of the poisoned tree is poisoned too.

I am not taking sides on the EC, but merely pointing ut that consistency and logic can take a vacation in the TV forum.

[geovalin]

Sondhi is a clown. Pathetic excuse of a man. Him wearing that stupid bandanna. He is not the real power behind PAD, he is just a stupid mentally challenged stooge that will be gotten rid of once his usefulness is done. What the PAD wants is to take Thailand back 50 years in their political process. They want the "stupid backward upcountry people" not to have a vote in the political process in Thailand. This is also what the so called "educated" urban Bangkok people want also. They make me sick. Understand that in the Roman days the Barbarians were the more intelligent of the bunch which is why eventually they were able to sack Rome. If these stupid Bangkok "elites" think they are smarter than their upcountry cousins, they have a thing coming.

WRONG POST,

it's not 50 years back. It's 70 years. Phibun (his model was Mussolini) style. He was PM in the 1930's.

Edited September 4, 2008 by geovalin

[hammered]

There are rumours that sections of the civil service are no longer following government instructions including some senior ones. Well it may not be noticeable too as the government dont seem to be doing any work, but it does put how deep the crisis goes into perspective if true.

[duncaw]

Does anybody else see the irony in Sondhi saying that article 171 of the constitution should be suspended to allow a non-MP to be Prime Minister?

It's not OK for Samak/PPP to amend the constitution on the one hand, but it's fine for Sondhi/PAD to ignore the parts of the constitution that don't fit their agenda.

Pure hypocrisy

Hanging is too good for them, all of them.

[Richard W]

Technical point but you cant use the constituency vote as a direct amount of votes received. If you add them up you will find they exceed the electorate of Thailand! The reason is that some constituencies had one MP, some 2 and many three so in many places people had up to three votes. The constituency tally is just a raw number that doesnt indicate one person's vote as different people had different voting rigths depending on constituency. Maybe not exactly a good system if one believes in OMOV but.... The only indicator of vote tally in terms of one person one vote is the party list vote.

Given the results for each constituency ( e.g. from http://www.ect.go.th/thai/report/html ), one could generate a constituency-based tally by dividing the number of votes in each constituency by the number of MPs and then adding up these numbers. (Thus the constituency-based votes for each party will be a multiple of a one sixth.) Are the results of such a calculation available anywhere?

[Samuian]

trouble, trouble..."You stay put, unless I tell you otherwise!"... ordered his boss from london...

[RadioCityMike]

Perhaps its time for the Election Commission of Thailand to have a bit of scrutiny?

What is its vested interest? Is it independent. Last month there were multiple threads saying one couldn't get justice in Thailand, claims that judges were bought from top to bottom. There have also been multiple threads stating that all politicians in thailand were corrupt and had vested interests.

The Constitution empowers the Supreme Court to nominate 10 candidates for the five-member commission, which is finalized by the Senate.

In light of the manner in which the EC is appointed, how come, all of a sudden some of the very same people claiming corruption in the judiciary , conflict of interest in the senate see the EC as pristine pure, free of possible taint?

IThe EC might very well be decent and honest. However, for the sake of consistency annd logic, those that previously claimed evil in the political system and the courts, must now accept the potential for evil in the EC. Old saying in the legal system that the fruit of the poisoned tree is poisoned too.

I am not taking sides on the EC, but merely pointing ut that consistency and logic can take a vacation in the TV forum.

Glad you posted that. I had been wondering about the same thing. It reminded me about the saying "My guys are not corrupt because they are my guys, your guys are corrupt because they are your guys".

[blaze]

Sondhi is a clown. Pathetic excuse of a man. Him wearing that stupid bandanna. He is not the real power behind PAD, he is just a stupid mentally challenged stooge that will be gotten rid of once his usefulness is done. What the PAD wants is to take Thailand back 50 years in their political process. They want the "stupid backward upcountry people" not to have a vote in the political process in Thailand. This is also what the so called "educated" urban Bangkok people want also. They make me sick. Understand that in the Roman days the Barbarians were the more intelligent of the bunch which is why eventually they were able to sack Rome. If these stupid Bangkok "elites" think they are smarter than their upcountry cousins, they have a thing coming.

If anyone hasn't read the Sondhi interview in this morning's Post- I strongly urge them to.

That interview puts to bed once and for all that the proposition for a semi appointed legislature was merely Sondhi thinking aloud. He makes no bones about it- this is his demand. Though he will bend on the actual proportions of appointed vs elected. And to his credit, he also clearly states that these demands are only his position- but doesn't tell us what the PAD position is- maybe they really don't have one at all.

The fact that the PAD has not distanced itself from him- in fact far from it- suggests that those who are aware of his dream, find it at the very least, creditible.

I'd be very interested to know, from those of you who have partners that support PAD, how those partners view this New Politics - or if they are even aware of it.

He strongly advocates more education for the masses- but then when he explains Samak's unpopularity in the 'upper strata' of Thai society- credits that unpopularity to nothing more than the fact that Samak is rude. IF he represents the 'edcuated' minority that proposes to guide Thailand into a glorious new future, and if that is the depth of his ability to analyze social movements- one could get a more adult interpretation of events from laundry girl down the soi--- unless of course being educated in Thailand results in analyzing political trends in terms of a child's comic book-

http://bangkokpost.com/040908_News/04Sep2008_news23.php

Edited September 4, 2008 by blaze

[ubonjoe]

Perhaps its time for the Election Commission of Thailand to have a bit of scrutiny?

What is its vested interest? Is it independent. Last month there were multiple threads saying one couldn't get justice in Thailand, claims that judges were bought from top to bottom. There have also been multiple threads stating that all politicians in thailand were corrupt and had vested interests.

The Constitution empowers the Supreme Court to nominate 10 candidates for the five-member commission, which is finalized by the Senate.

In light of the manner in which the EC is appointed, how come, all of a sudden some of the very same people claiming corruption in the judiciary , conflict of interest in the senate see the EC as pristine pure, free of possible taint?

IThe EC might very well be decent and honest. However, for the sake of consistency annd logic, those that previously claimed evil in the political system and the courts, must now accept the potential for evil in the EC. Old saying in the legal system that the fruit of the poisoned tree is poisoned too.

I am not taking sides on the EC, but merely pointing ut that consistency and logic can take a vacation in the TV forum.

Glad you posted that. I had been wondering about the same thing. It reminded me about the saying "My guys are not corrupt because they are my guys, your guys are corrupt because they are your guys".

Good Question

What is the history of the current EC. When were thy appointed and such.

I remember that after the 06 election fiasco it was pretty much wiped out because of resignations and a court decision. After that I just don't remember. Anybody out there that can fill in the blanks.

[larvidchr]

I wonder if the non-resignation was Samak's idea or that of the big boss

It was Samak's idea, though there are probably 40 million Thais and countless others from free countries all over the world who are glad he made that choice.

I don't know much about him but I see that he is tough and thick skinned, exactly the kind of PM Thailand needs at this time, when democracy and majority rule is being threatened. A lesser man would have folded under so much pressure.

Nowhere near 40 million. The PPP earned only 14 mil votes (same as the Demos, more or less) in the 2007 parliamentary elections, and their popularity - along with Samak's - has taken a considerable dive since then.

The no spin zone right here.

The DEMS got 12.466 votes more than PPP out of totally 28.156.064 voters for those two party's alone, hardly a big majority, but with the Thai proportional/constituency voting system PPP ended up with 233 seats and the DEM's with 165 seats.

This system is considered internationally as an entirely fair and reasonable system, and the same rules apply for all party's entering the election, some are ardent against the result because their side did not come out as winners, but lets just consider the fact that even if only one vote one man was counted the DEM's failed to build a coalition that then would have given them the power to form a Government, the PPP formed a coalition with all other party's represented in the parliament and therefore would have gained the absolute majority anyway, it is indisputable ok to form coalitions in parliament's to gain superiority, and in this case so much more since some of the other partys was formed after the TRT was disbanded but on the base of TRT voters and there was never any question who they would support.

The election was held under a military dictatorship who had used all their powers to try to crush the old TRT majority in the populace with massive censorship and propaganda campaigns up to the election and criminal cases brought forward against the old TRT leadership with the military's own judges in a environment where the judges new what they had to rule to satisfy the army bosses and not to bring themselves and their position in jeopardy.

So all the cards was stacked against the newly formed PPP. The DEM's never before had a greater chance to gain the power, but even in this situation the DEM's failed and you can therefore say that they lost the election soundly in this for them most favourable election environment, and that the PPP won in the most hostile election environment possible and is the moral winners to.

The vote buying (very wrong as it is) issue that is brought forward all the time, is by all independent observers agreed upon not to have had a significant effect on the final result.

The present public support to whatever party is of cause speculation only and can not be used to determine who should be in power, an new election will have to determine that.

But the internationally recognised fact is that the SAMAK coalition is the legal democratic elected Government in Thailand, and that no spin on numbers and methods can change that fact.

Edited September 4, 2008 by larvidchr

[mitrapaap]

I find the arrogance of the educated and the academics appalling. What makes them think they know better then the poor and uneducated? Just head stuffing? Does that make you a better person? Do these people ever care for the poor or try to help to raise the standard?

What is the difference in giving someone 300 Baht to vote for them or someone else lying through their teeth saying how much things will change if they get elected? I whole heartedly feel for the poor, taxi drivers, workers etc who all testify to the fact that Thaksin caused a change for the better in their lives. Who cares about the motive as long as it was a good thing. Now they can get health care, sell their own products etc.

If you beleive in democracy as an outcrop of 'one voice one vote' surely you must accept the popular votes. Or is it better with a feudal society of ancient Europe?

The PDA to me is an embarrassment to the whole world of how some self-rightous people through a personal vendetta can disrupt a whole country. Terrible!

What does the educated make think that they know better than the uneducated? Maybe their education.

Why are companies hiring people with degrees?

[RadioCityMike]

I wonder if the non-resignation was Samak's idea or that of the big boss

It was Samak's idea, though there are probably 40 million Thais and countless others from free countries all over the world who are glad he made that choice.

I don't know much about him but I see that he is tough and thick skinned, exactly the kind of PM Thailand needs at this time, when democracy and majority rule is being threatened. A lesser man would have folded under so much pressure.

Nowhere near 40 million. The PPP earned only 14 mil votes (same as the Demos, more or less) in the 2007 parliamentary elections, and their popularity - along with Samak's - has taken a considerable dive since then.

The no spin zone right here.

The DEMS got 12.466 votes more than PPP out of totally 28.156.064 voters for those two party's alone, hardly a big majority, but with the Thai proportional/constituency voting system PPP ended up with 233 seats and the DEM's with 165 seats.

This system is considered internationally as an entirely fair and reasonable system, and the same rules apply for all party's entering the election, some are ardent against the result because their side did not come out as winners, but lets just consider the fact that even if only one vote one man was counted the DEM's failed to build a coalition that then would have given them the power to form a Government, the PPP formed a coalition with all other party's represented in the parliament and therefore would have gained the absolute majority anyway, it is indisputable ok to form coalitions in parliament's to gain superiority, and in this case so much more since some of the other partys was formed after the TRT was disbanded but on the base of TRT voters and there was never any question who they would support.

The election was held under a military dictatorship who had used all their powers to try to crush the old TRT majority in the populace with massive censorship and propaganda campaigns up to the election and criminal cases brought forward against the old TRT leadership with the military's own judges in a environment where the judges new what they had to rule to satisfy the army bosses and not to bring themselves and their position in jeopardy.

So all the cards was stacked against the newly formed PPP. The DEM's never before had a greater chance to gain the power, but even in this situation the DEM's failed and you can therefore say that they lost the election soundly in this for them most favourable election environment, and that the PPP won in the most hostile election environment possible and is the moral winners to.

The vote buying (very wrong as it is) issue that is brought forward all the time, is by all independent observers agreed upon not to have had a significant effect on the final result.

The present public support to whatever party is of cause speculation only and can not be used to determine who should be in power, an new election will have to determine that.

But the internationally recognised fact is that the SAMAK coalition is the legal democratic elected Government in Thailand, and that no spin on numbers and methods can change that fact.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this again.

[auserb]

lol at the people pointing to Samak and the PPP as standard-bearers of democracy.

Or that Sondhi will gain political power and that all of his proposals will actually come to fruition.

A lot of reports seem to also paint this as Small Urban Educated Elite v the Rural Poor.

1) Thaksin is not poor.

2) The South is poor. And they don't vote PPP.

EUh, The South is not poor, you need to get your info straight! Been living in the SOuth for over 10 years most people here have there rubber and palm oil plantations and are doing pretty well.

South is not poor, but people are very poor in their brain... Taksin is a man who help Isan people ...

I love Samak and his party and aspecialy Taksin and his party ...long live Samak and his party

[NanLaew]

What does the educated make think that they know better than the uneducated? Maybe their education.

Why are companies hiring people with degrees?

And who builds their offices, serves their employees noodles at lunch and pumps gas into their BMW's on the way home?

Is this just more clueless, ignorant arrogance from the degreed and educated?

[Mosha]

lol at the people pointing to Samak and the PPP as standard-bearers of democracy.

Or that Sondhi will gain political power and that all of his proposals will actually come to fruition.

A lot of reports seem to also paint t his as Small Urban Educated Elite v the Rural Poor.

1) Thaksin is not poor.

2) The South is poor. And they don't vote PPP.

EUh, The South is not poor, you need to get your info straight! Been living in the SOuth for over 10 years most people here have there rubber and palm oil plantations and are doing pretty well.

South is not poor, but people are very poor in their brain... Taksin is a man who help Isan people ...

I love Samak and his party and aspecialy Taksin and his party ...long live Samak and his party

All those uni educated Isannites

[Jai Dee]

PM Samak said via Radio Thailand : I will not resign

Speaking live on Radio Thailand, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej affirmed that he will continue his role as head of state, adding that he needed to stay on to to protect democracy of the country.

He said he needed to find ways to defuse political tension now as the whole world is eye-ing on Thailand.

Mr Samak said he spoke live via Radio Thailand to ask people to think on behalf of the nation, reminding people who plan to join the protests to think twice.

PM Samak insisted that the declaration of the emergency decree was not a wrong idea, adding that supports lenient measures of the military to tackle protesters who seized the Government House.

He asked listeners how the protests would end.

At the same development, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said that Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag resigned because of pressure from various sides, including his wife.

PM Samak said that Mr Tej handed him a letter, explaining that he was pressured by many to resign and that his wife could not tolerate him working with his government.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

[lazeeboy]

looks like the tanks are coming out soon then