Samak Found Guilty By Court, Must Resign

[steveromagnino]

dual post. To amuse I will instead amuse myself thinking of the idiotic quotes from the head of the Thai Taekwondo Assocation at the recent olympics; one of the few TRT politicians unable to win his seat of Bang Kapi despite running unopposed in the farcical 2006 election.

Apparently guys like him being banned (despite him never doing, from what I could see, anything in his years of being an MP) are why Samak's govt are so c&*p.

Now that is co-ma- deeee.

Edited September 10, 2008 by steveromagnino

[steveromagnino]

A good observation, although I can't see much chance of improvement. Maybe the family stops paying, but someone else will so the money politics and associated problems continue.

I disagree, as only one family has the potential huge loss from their previous trangressions; all the other PPP/TRT guys up in court for the various deals plus associated parties are mostly one offs; this would be the motherlode that would potentially put one of the most affluent families in Thailand down many many pegs. It isn't like anyone who knows the kids believes they have any skills at all to make it back!

Most of the other super affluent families e.g. CP, TCC are smart enough to steer mostly clear of politics with payments to both sides or none at all, as it is too hit and miss; the regional guys like in Chonburi etc they make their skim but none have cleaned up to the degree that the Shinawatras have. The construction/mega project lot, there is a good chance to wait to let whoever get in power and then pay to get the work.

With the potential to lose so much of your net worth, what would you do if in that position, knowing that some people can be bought and others cannot?

If nothing else, the most recent election and subsequent judicial process shows that even big wigs are not immune anymore. They may flaunt the law, run off to Cambodia/Hong Kong/UK/sit around doing nothing here in Thailand but at least they get taken to court. Previously they could do what they like and never a consequence as we saw in the asset declaration in 2001.

As for Isaan voters, since they always vote for the same people, whoever pays off the Chidchobs can get Buriram seats. pretty simple I would have thought. Why this is democracy I don't know. But ah well, apparently the people of Isaan must know some secret that the rest of us don't I guess. Strange that.

Edited September 10, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Smithson]

As for Isaan voters, since they always vote for the same people, whoever pays off the Chidchobs can get Buriram seats. pretty simple I would have thought. Why this is democracy I don't know. But ah well, apparently the people of Isaan must know some secret that the rest of us don't I guess. Strange that.

I remember a Thai saying how politicians would normally pay ppl to vote, but Thaksin was breaking new ground with his populist policies by bribing voters with their own money. All the farang present said this was how things were normally done in the West.

So I often wondered if Thaksin wasn't transforming Thai politics to become more like Western democracies, where influential ppl don't just get away with breaking laws, but get to write them instead. I think they called in policy corruption.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Smithson

[auserb]

Looks more like it's heading towards a political system called Absolute Anarchy.

Urose... kako ide bre?

[animatic]

I think Andrew Walker over at New Mandala says it best:

Hosting a cooking show = GUILTY

Launching a coup and tearing up the constitution = NO PROBLEM

Actually, the current constitution, let us not forget, has been supported by an absolute majority of voters in the referendum. Or should we discount that and instead base our decision on the views of the PPP elected by a minority of Thais (i.e. a significantly smaller number) and the subsequent coalition formed since then now representing the majority of voters but not elected in on the basis of changing the constitution?

Certainly we all know that PPP feel this way, if not for any other reason than their own survival.

As for conflict of interest and the flipancy which people dismiss this as 'hosting a cooking show', I can safely assume many people here don't work for the media. If they did, they would be well aware of the unprecedented level of behind the scenes deals being done at NBT, primarily to acheive 3 things:

- to remove all anti government content and replace with pro government content or at least neutral content and to remove and punish any pro coup reporters

- to reallocate airtime to favoured suppliers

- to remove the advertising revenue deals from being directly controlled by the PRD and instead introduce a middle man process similar to the deals done at Channel 5 to effectively give away the airtime contract cheaply by the state (or in the case of Channel 5, the military) and then resell it at a profit via the middle man i.e. to profit from the sale of airtime personally; also to engage in a rebranding of the station at a cost of 150m baht for basically one day of work's event and a few fancy fireworks

Obviously this can be easily seen as what happened in the Shin ITV deal, when the exact same mechanic was used. Instead of a cooking show back then, this was a reward for all favoured TV producers and related parties; e.g. How Come Entertainment.

Links via this show stretch quite a bit deeper than you might imagine; and it is not unreasonable to assume that the cooking show is one aspect of a larger deal where the PM gets airtime or editorial for free that is far from the Fox ideal of a fair and balanced view. Again, no surprise; the media have operated under this scenario for many channels and media outlets already since 2001 with some respite in 2006/7.

There is thus little doubt that there are major conflicts in allowing a PM to be involved in personal profit and work in the media (aside from the obvious illegality of breaking the law). Certainly the multitude of times that the law was broken or mocked under the TRT years starting right from the asset declaration; the foreign media for the most part chose to turn a blind eye, willing to enjoy the wonderful hospitality, nice pens, phone cards and nice work permits provided by TRT and that fat ad budget from AIS - well other than a couple of FEER journalists who were chucked out of the country for reporting the truth. A few threatened with lawsuits also might disagree.

sjaak327

You can explain this all you want, fact is that in a normal democracy, such a rule doesn't exist. Do you really believe that someone like George W Bush, doesn't have any additional income one way or another. What about holding shares of companies for instance, not a problem in a western democracies. Whoever drafted this rule, hasn't been thinking. If he was, then surely a clear conflict of interest should have been shown by the courts. Of course there isn't a clear confilict of interest, hence the conviction is a joke.

Actually, as I understand, USA politicians are in some way controlled from this conflict of interest in some way, an American can probably elaborate. Obviously as in the case here, you cannot stop politicians from doing dodgy deals anywhere, whether Bectel, Halliburton or closer to home firetrucks, airport duty free monopolies, Samut Prakan water treatment, soft credit to foreign dictators for sattellite, illegal sale of 96% of a company that is by law supposed to be 49% Thai or so on. However, with checks and balances such as a free media the ability to do so is at least somewhat curtailed.

The law is quite clear; similarly the law was quite clear regarding asset declarations in 2001; but since TRT and Thaksin had no respect for that one back then and alledgedly paid off and won, I guess you could consider this to be a swings and roundabouts kind of thing; enforcing the law especially when it is so clear, is to everyone's benefit.

And incidentally, no it should not be selectively enforced. This part i really worry about; it is starting to 'appear' like a witchhunt, and with that come martyrs.

There is not a single thing worthy from either Samak or Thaksin that should ever give them this sort of status. Perhaps being a Lord of the Dunghill would be a more deserving title.

They even make Banharn look good.

I won't say I rest my case, but..

this clearly delineates the issues.

The group that controls the media controls WHAT PEOPLE HEAR AND SEE

The media knows it will be controled,

but how to have that be the least obtrusive and most profitable

concerns them greatly.

Being on Samak's good side with a little cooking show,

to give him a backhander, and stroke his monsterously large ego,

no doubt seemed a prudent, low budget way to keep in good.

Thaksin spent millions on lawyers alone to control the media.

The media has long learned to hedge it's bets, and be in good with

as many powerful figures as they can, in vastly different ways

depending on the influencial figures predelictions.

Because if these guys get in power the media is

THE FIRST LINE OF ATTACK to control the people's minds.

Think conflict of interest isn't important in this realm.

HAH, not on your tintype!

It's a main part of the whole shooting match.

Edited September 10, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Khun Samak is good and straight forward but ... : Yongyuth

A meeting of some 100 MPs of People Power Party hinted on Wednesday that it may not be suitable to nominate Samak Sundaravej as prime minister again.

The meeting was chaired by former PPP deputy leader and ex-House Speaker Yongyuth Tirapairat.

"We, as members of the party, think that if we are in power traps, we will not be able to clearly see the real problems. The country will plunge into deeper problems if we continue to be rivals," Yongyuth said.

"We believe that Khun Samak is good and straight forward. However we could not take it as personal matter as the country's problems have to be settled urgently."

Funny ironic words coming from the guy responsible for the dissolution of their party... and yet he still commands the attention of 1/2 of the the party.

That's one heck of a Refrigerator.

Edited September 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[animatic]

Excuse me if this has been covered, but how can they reelect a man who has already been barred from being PM? Is he no longer guilty, so long as he does not work a second job again?

he is just kicked out. With normal human beings there would be so much regard to the courts and constitution that they won't try to get elected again a few days later. I think therefore it was forgotten to write in the constitution "and he shall not be reelected in the same week".

If you write a constitution would you think for that? I wouldn't

Probably not, but I don't write constitutions. Do you? I thought the idea was not to leave loopholes?

Even the USA constitution had the Bill Of Rights and 18 odd other amendments added to it.

I personally thought adapting the '97 constitution was a better plan,

because the could concentrate on repairs and loophole fixing

rather than a massive new work from scratch.

[Splatter]

I won't say I rest my case, but..

this clearly delineates the issues.

The group that controls the media controls WHAT PEOPLE HEAR AND SEE

The media knows it will be controled,

but how to have that be the least obtrusive and most profitable

concerns them greatly.

Being on Samak's good side with a little cooking show,

to give him a backhander, and stroke his monsterously large ego,

no doubt seemed a prudent, low budget way to keep in good.

Thaksin spent millions on lawyers alone to control the media.

The media has long learned to hedge it's bets, and be in good with

as many powerful figures as they can, in vastly different ways

depending on the influencial figures predelictions.

Because if these guys get in power the media is

THE FIRST LINE OF ATTACK to control the people's minds.

Think conflict of interest isn't important in this realm.

HAH, not on your tintype!

It's a main part of the whole shooting match.

Exactly. Read your Orwell.

I love Big Brother. I hate Goldstein.

[kurtgruen]

First of all, the judgement of the Supreme Court, against Samak, sounded fair and well thought out. He was deemed guilty and that is that, as far as I am concerned.

Secondly, someone was making a comment about the PPP having a democratic mandate, which to me, is a total joke. Not only seeing what came out into the open, through investigation and the Election Committee, which showed that the Elections where riddled with vote buying and other forms of corruption, but also, what I know from our own experience here. For example:

Hill Tribe Lishu People where all told to make their X "right here". When my friend asked his wife, "So, who did you vote for", she replied "I don't know". He said, "How can you not know who you voted for" and she replied that all the Lishu people where told to put their X right there. (Many or most of them don't know how to read)

Then, there was our waitress, from Isaan, who got 200 Baht to go down and vote.

Our neighbor, who got 800 Baht for driving his truck into town to the "Pro-Thaskin" demonstration, filled with Pro-Thaksin demonstrators, who got 200 Baht each for demonstrating.

You call things like these a democratic mandate????

Common', how much corruption will you excuse in the name of democracy?

[Guest Reimar]

I just cleaned this thread a bit from post's mention HM the King, the Royal Family and the Royal House.

Please keep any comments regarding out of any post!

Cheers.

[sriracha john]

"What a diff'rence a day makes

Twenty-four little hours"

Embattled Thai premier Samak unlikely to return to the helm

(Kyodo) _ Leading members of Thailand's People Power Party dismissed Wednesday an earlier announcement that embattled Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej would be re-elected.

PPP Spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang told reporters Tuesday the party unanimously supported Samak to return as premier even though he was unseated by a consensus ruling of the nine-judge Constitutional Court that he violated the Constitution by hosting television cooking shows while in office.

But PPP Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee said Wednesday the party would convene a meeting to select a candidate to replace Samak on Thursday.

PPP Deputy Leader Somchai Wongsawat denied there was a consensus within the party to reinstate Samak.

Local media widely reported that Surapong and Somchai are candidates to succeed Samak.

Surapong was Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister while Somchai was Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister in the Samak-led Cabinet.

The whole 35-member Cabinet could stay on with limited capacity as "caretakers," except Samak as Defense Minister.

Somchai, as the No. 1 Deputy Prime Minister, is caretaker premier.

Justice Minister Sompong Amornwiwat has emerged as a third candidate since both Surapong and Somchai could face public criticism over their close links with ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is now a fugitive in Britain to avoid a corruption case that is to be ruled upon by the Supreme Court next week.

Somchai, who is said to be widely supported by most of the PPP lawmakers, is Thaksin's brother-in-law.

Surapong is one of 47 defendants in a malfeasance case set for initial hearing Sept. 26 at the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions.

As a former Cabinet member in the Thaksin administration, he is alleged together with Thaksin of wrongfully approving a project to introduce a lottery system and unlawfully granting tax exemptions for the new lottery.

However, Surapong, Somchai, and Sompong met with Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa on Wednesday to decide the PPP would continue to take the lead in the six-party coalition government.

The PPP will work out Samak's successor, according to Banharn, who stressed that his party placed no condition on supporting the PPP-led coalition.

The trio also sought meetings with each of the other smaller parties in the coalition.

Chart Thai Party is the second-largest ruling party, with 34 seats in the lower chamber. The PPP won 233 seats in the Dec. 23 election, but 10 of them were disqualified by the election watchdog. Official results of by-elections have not been announced.

[sjaak327]

Wasn't Somchai listed as one of the people who would be acceptable by PAD, if so, I guess they might pack up and go home.

[sriracha john]

There's no way that Thaksin's brother-in-law, or his niece for that matter, would be acceptable to PAD, or a lot of other people for that matter.

[Old Man River]

There's no way that Thaksin's brother-in-law, or his niece for that matter, would be acceptable to PAD, or a lot of other people for that matter.

How about his maid or his driver?

[ubonjoe]

From the Nation earlier today

Sompong leads the race

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/topstory/r...newsid=30083062

Off topic but interesting

Don Muang airport to be temporay government office

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/10...cs_30083143.php

[ando]

impartial application of the law by the courts is the only way for a civilized democracy to progress.

thailand is hardly a true democracy , and the courts are anything but impartial.

is there any other country on earth that would remove a prime minister for cooking on tv , the surreal absurdity of this is astounding.

i'm surprised that they dont settle all court cases and government business here by penalty shoot outs.

it would fit in perfectly with the thai way of governance.

they dont want the world laughing at them do they.

Agreed.

..Impartial law....I wish the families of murdered tourists/people, farang and Thai, would have a fair trial instead of letting the suspects/murderer(s) out and/or the run.

LaoPo

I stand by my personal opinion that the only way for any form of true democracy in Thailand to prevail is for the courts to apply the law in a fair and impartial way to stamp out the rampant corruption that is eating the heart out of the country and holding it back.

If it is true that the judiciary is corrupt themselves and make rulings based on political bias (not talking about racial prejudice against Farangs here), then the country is doomed to not only decades of social injustice but inhibitions to economic growth. Sort of like trying to run a business with half the employees with their fingers in the till.

I really think the courts are the key link in making or breaking the country. I guess we shall see if the courts are impartial and do in fact deliver blind justice when the PAD leaders face their day in court.

Perhaps I am an optimist, but as I see it the only way for justice to prevail in Thailand is through the justice system. If the justice system is corrupt then all we end up with is a virtual dictatorship masquerading under the guise of a pseudo democracy with the courts as their henchmen..

Yesterday the courts upheld an appeal against Prasong - hardly a government friend, and rumoured to be on the PAD side. The EC although not a court cleared Chai Chidchob. It does seem that the courts are not standing for anything from anyone. That could be good for Thailand. I dont dout the PAD leadership face a tough time in court when they get there. There are rumours that Sondhi has joked he may have to spend the rest of his life as a monk after this to avoid a worse event.

One problem is that after the courts have taken out all politicians and parties where will the country stand? It could be a new beginning. Or new politics? But maybe not exactly the kind currently talked about

Well, we can certainly hope so. I don't see any other option for a country so off the rails except for a reasonable sort of justice system to restore some stability. Even a justice system bound by laws and a constitution forced by a military coup which was widely recognised as unconstitutional, undemocratic and illegal internationally as well as under Thai law.

The country has been so rotten to the core with corruption for so long, its going to take a real sea-change in the way of doing things for anything to change much no matter who gains political power. The honesty of the Thai courts are Thailand's last chance to join the modern democratic world now IMHO.

I believe Sondhi is facing treason charges. I would hope the courts deal out the same degree of blind justice to Sondhi and cohorts on treason charges as they have against Samak on his cooking show charges. I guess we will have to wait and see as others here have expressed concern as to the courts political impartiality.

This is really Thailand's last chance at democracy for a very long time. If the courts cant pull the country back from the edge of the abyss now it will hold the country back for decades to come.

[Old Man River]

impartial application of the law by the courts is the only way for a civilized democracy to progress.

thailand is hardly a true democracy , and the courts are anything but impartial.

is there any other country on earth that would remove a prime minister for cooking on tv , the surreal absurdity of this is astounding.

i'm surprised that they dont settle all court cases and government business here by penalty shoot outs.

it would fit in perfectly with the thai way of governance.

they dont want the world laughing at them do they.

The courts are very, very important hence HM the King's meeting with new judges every

Agreed.

..Impartial law....I wish the families of murdered tourists/people, farang and Thai, would have a fair trial instead of letting the suspects/murderer(s) out and/or the run.

LaoPo

I stand by my personal opinion that the only way for any form of true democracy in Thailand to prevail is for the courts to apply the law in a fair and impartial way to stamp out the rampant corruption that is eating the heart out of the country and holding it back.

If it is true that the judiciary is corrupt themselves and make rulings based on political bias (not talking about racial prejudice against Farangs here), then the country is doomed to not only decades of social injustice but inhibitions to economic growth. Sort of like trying to run a business with half the employees with their fingers in the till.

I really think the courts are the key link in making or breaking the country. I guess we shall see if the courts are impartial and do in fact deliver blind justice when the PAD leaders face their day in court.

Perhaps I am an optimist, but as I see it the only way for justice to prevail in Thailand is through the justice system. If the justice system is corrupt then all we end up with is a virtual dictatorship masquerading under the guise of a pseudo democracy with the courts as their henchmen..

Yesterday the courts upheld an appeal against Prasong - hardly a government friend, and rumoured to be on the PAD side. The EC although not a court cleared Chai Chidchob. It does seem that the courts are not standing for anything from anyone. That could be good for Thailand. I dont dout the PAD leadership face a tough time in court when they get there. There are rumours that Sondhi has joked he may have to spend the rest of his life as a monk after this to avoid a worse event.

One problem is that after the courts have taken out all politicians and parties where will the country stand? It could be a new beginning. Or new politics? But maybe not exactly the kind currently talked about

Well, we can certainly hope so. I don't see any other option for a country so off the rails except for a reasonable sort of justice system to restore some stability.

This is really Thailand's last chance at democracy for a very long time. If the courts cant pull the country back from the edge of the abyss now it will hold the country back for decades to come.

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but there is just too much talk about a new system of politics. I have posted this link before, but read it and you will get an idea of what many people in Bangkok are thinking, supporters and non supporters of the PAD alike.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

[fft100]

This mornings editorial in the Guardian. Shows what most people outside Thailand think....

[Editorial The Guardian, Wednesday September 10 2008

Article history

Thai politics veers weirdly from comedy towards tragedy and then back again. Samak Sundaravej will surely go down as the only prime minister anywhere who has lost office for culinary reasons. His cookery show on television was yesterday deemed to offend against a law which stipulates that the prime minister must not engage in private business. No matter that Mr Samak did the show for fun and because it helped give him a jovial political profile, or that he gave the few baht he earned for it to his driver. Justice is not to be mocked and Mr Samak and his cabinet have to step down, although they may well all be reappointed in a couple of days after a fresh vote in parliament.

Needless to say, it was not Mr Samak's recipe for leg of pork cooked in Coca-Cola, one of his more unwise suggestions, which constituted the real offence, but his recipe for ruling Thailand. Samak came to power as a liege man of Thaksin Shinawatra, the populist politician who dominated the political scene in Thailand before he was deposed in a military coup in 2006. The generals and their civilian allies ruled for a while and then held fresh elections, thinking that with Mr Thaksin in exile and his party banned, they could get a result to their liking. But Mr Thaksin's political party simply renamed itself, swept the board again in the polls, and put Mr Samak in his place to keep his seat warm until legal problems arising from corruption charges against him and his wife could be sorted out.

But those who had brought down Mr Thaksin in the first place were not ready either to let him return or to allow a Thaksin government under another name to stay in power. A campaign of protests by the so-called People's Alliance for Democracy similar to that which had helped push Mr Thaksin out was now aimed at Mr Samak. The protests got larger, spilled on to the prime minister's lawn, and led to counter protests, an unfortunate development given Samak's small but well remembered role in the political crisis which led to the October 1976, massacre of students in Bangkok by rightwing militia. It is true there are some murky episodes in Mr Samak's history, but that is also the case with almost everybody else in this drama on both sides, including Mr Thaksin and General Prem Tinsulanonda, the influential adviser to the ailing King.

Some of leaders of PAD have meanwhile demonstrated their ignorance of what they are supposedly defending by demanding an appointed corporatist legislature of the kind once favoured by European fascists. Mr Thaksin was a flawed politician who broke rules and cut corners, and Samak is his henchman, but both were elected by a large popular vote and that is, or ought to be, the bottom line.

[TAWP]

The Guardian editorial is a mockery.

"that he gave the few baht he earned for it to his driver"

Is this ignorant person for real? Does he have any idea about salary levels in this country, if this statement was even true?

As some posters here have proven before, one doesn't have to be smart or talented to be a Journalist. One just have to be willing to sell ones soul.

[Thai at Heart]

A good observation, although I can't see much chance of improvement. Maybe the family stops paying, but someone else will so the money politics and associated problems continue.

I disagree, as only one family has the potential huge loss from their previous trangressions; all the other PPP/TRT guys up in court for the various deals plus associated parties are mostly one offs; this would be the motherlode that would potentially put one of the most affluent families in Thailand down many many pegs. It isn't like anyone who knows the kids believes they have any skills at all to make it back!

Most of the other super affluent families e.g. CP, TCC are smart enough to steer mostly clear of politics with payments to both sides or none at all, as it is too hit and miss; the regional guys like in Chonburi etc they make their skim but none have cleaned up to the degree that the Shinawatras have. The construction/mega project lot, there is a good chance to wait to let whoever get in power and then pay to get the work.

With the potential to lose so much of your net worth, what would you do if in that position, knowing that some people can be bought and others cannot?

If nothing else, the most recent election and subsequent judicial process shows that even big wigs are not immune anymore. They may flaunt the law, run off to Cambodia/Hong Kong/UK/sit around doing nothing here in Thailand but at least they get taken to court. Previously they could do what they like and never a consequence as we saw in the asset declaration in 2001.

As for Isaan voters, since they always vote for the same people, whoever pays off the Chidchobs can get Buriram seats. pretty simple I would have thought. Why this is democracy I don't know. But ah well, apparently the people of Isaan must know some secret that the rest of us don't I guess. Strange that.

I tend to disagree that this is entirely locally based.

The Chinese FTA has benefitted CP group massively who had family in TRT. I drove past 2 Lotus Supermarkets today in China. They are pushing into Oz with chicken exports. Land and House got their banking license. The first new license in 40 years. It maybe wasn't in the interest of these companies themselves to pay to be in power, but they are not stupid and I am sure realise that if PPP disappears, they have a massive amount of money and influence to lose. Maybe they will pay now.

The money doesn't have to come from Thaksin alone. Whether they dip into their own pockets remains to be seen.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Nampeung]

PPP to choose new PM on Friday

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/...ent_9905930.htm

[lazeeboy]

cant wait for that one

[brahmburgers]

Those who are fed up with Samak (dare I say that's nearly all of us?) are various shades of relieved - that he's out of the driver's seat - at least for the moment.

Though there's appreciation for the 9 judges who made the unanimous decision to get rid of Samak - Not long ago there was a decision by top Thai judges on Thaksin - which turned things in a whole different direction. I'm referring to the time when judges deemed Thaksin didn't launder bunches of baht to his chauffeur and housemaid. Or, more correctly, the judges deemed that maybe Thaksin did blatantly break the law - but we (as judges) should not look at it objectively - in lieu of the fact that Thaksin had just been elected.

The point here; judges are supposed to uphold their duties objectively, and not sway with the subjective mood of the moment. Imagine if those judges had done the right thing, 8 or so years ago, in regard to the serious charges against Thaksin. Thaksin would have been forced to step down, and much of the multiple imbroglios by him and his family since then would have been avoided.

Edited September 10, 2008 by brahmburgers

[steveromagnino]

I tend to disagree that this is entirely locally based.

The Chinese FTA has benefitted CP group massively who had family in TRT. I drove past 2 Lotus Supermarkets today in China. They are pushing into Oz with chicken exports. Land and House got their banking license. The first new license in 40 years. It maybe wasn't in the interest of these companies themselves to pay to be in power, but they are not stupid and I am sure realise that if PPP disappears, they have a massive amount of money and influence to lose. Maybe they will pay now.

The money doesn't have to come from Thaksin alone. Whether they dip into their own pockets remains to be seen.

I don't doubt CP and Land and House gained massively from their share of favourable decisions for 7-11 (banned hyper market expansion), chicken (closed system push during chicken flu, chicken for planes/trains/automobiles), feed (various animal schemes with animals given away, food not) and so on. They did of course get a few set backs (True/Orange sent to the wall by AIS, Land and House denied the prime sites like the one the PM's wife is on the wall for right now) too.

As I understand it, both are somewhat pro TRT/PPP but they aren't anti Democrat; they give donations to both sides and let's face it, a huge chunk probably is going directly to some of the factions in chicken country, rice country, prawn country etc etc.

Neither of these companies will particularly pay, because they are actually well run, they can survive much the same as everyone else; the TRT years just gave them a massive headstart, particularly for 7:11. There certainly would not be a backlash.

By comparison, right now the Shinawatra family are PERSONALLY on the hook for billions of unpaid taxes, corruption charges and a bunch of other skeletons just waiting to be let out of the closet ranging from alleged cheating to get the 2 daughters into university through to petty henchling bribes for the Thai film festival, elite business card and so on. And that's not even looking at the enormous elephant in the room Airport which is the mother load of corruption for the TRT/PPP group with the Shinawatras right in the heart of it.

So my belief is the corporates will happily switch their backing to others; they were getting probably fairly fed up with the increasing demands by the end anyhow (at least some of the more favoured ones I know of) and the willingness of the ruling group to compete against them in their own businesses in the later years. It is money from the UK/HK more than any other that is willing to buy a result; corporates for the most part are willing to work with whoever other than a few in construction.

I don't bother to get my news about something sensible from the UK, why would I want to read the drivel that poses as news in the Guardian???! Methinks Thaksin's PR agency probably deserves a nice big raise; maybe I should work for a UK paper, it is pretty obvious you don't need to know a thing to work for them. Or for that matter, for the BBC if you report on Thailand ;-) Most people think that huh? Well I would guess most people don't even know where Thailand is....

Edited September 10, 2008 by steveromagnino

[animatic]

Those who are fed up with Samak (dare I say that's nearly all of us?) are various shades of relieved - that he's out of the driver's seat - at least for the moment.

Though there's appreciation for the 9 judges who made the unanimous decision to get rid of Samak - Not long ago there was a decision by top Thai judges on Thaksin - which turned things in a whole different direction. I'm referring to the time when judges deemed Thaksin didn't launder bunches of baht to his chauffeur and housemaid. Or, more correctly, the judges deemed that maybe Thaksin did blatantly break the law - but we (as judges) should not look at it objectively - in lieu of the fact that Thaksin had just been elected.

The point here; judges are supposed to uphold their duties objectively, and not sway with the subjective mood of the moment. Imagine if those judges had done the right thing, 8 or so years ago, in regard to the serious charges against Thaksin. Thaksin would have been forced to step down, and much of the multiple imbroglios by him and his family since then would have been avoided.

Two questions come to mind.

1 ) How many, or what %, of these current judges were on the court 8 years ago,

when they conspicuously dropped the potato.

2 ) I wonder if many believe a certain revered personage's request for the judges

to do their jobs properly can be credited for a sea change in jurisprudence.

Not sure of the %, but I think there are many new faces,

and all the faces seem to NOT want to disappoint a certain person

who asked that justice be correctly served...

I agree the Guardian piece was mocking at Thailand as much as a mockery.

How much came from the good Dr. T.'s personal archivists one can but speculate.

One can easily list a number of HORRENDOUS episodes in English history

that can compare UNFAVORABLY to Thailand's issues nowadays.

Guardian, too smug by 1/2.

Edited September 10, 2008 by animatic

[Uros]

Looks more like it's heading towards a political system called Absolute Anarchy.

Urose... kako ide bre?

sabai sabai

[blaze]

Those who are fed up with Samak (dare I say that's nearly all of us?) are various shades of relieved - that he's out of the driver's seat - at least for the moment.

Though there's appreciation for the 9 judges who made the unanimous decision to get rid of Samak - Not long ago there was a decision by top Thai judges on Thaksin - which turned things in a whole different direction. I'm referring to the time when judges deemed Thaksin didn't launder bunches of baht to his chauffeur and housemaid. Or, more correctly, the judges deemed that maybe Thaksin did blatantly break the law - but we (as judges) should not look at it objectively - in lieu of the fact that Thaksin had just been elected.

The point here; judges are supposed to uphold their duties objectively, and not sway with the subjective mood of the moment. Imagine if those judges had done the right thing, 8 or so years ago, in regard to the serious charges against Thaksin. Thaksin would have been forced to step down, and much of the multiple imbroglios by him and his family since then would have been avoided.

8 years ago, what was the prevailing attitude towards Thaksin among people of some influence? The courts reflected that mood.

Now, what is the prevailing attitude towards Thaksin among people of some influence? Have the courts defied that mood?

[Thai at Heart]

I tend to disagree that this is entirely locally based.

The Chinese FTA has benefitted CP group massively who had family in TRT. I drove past 2 Lotus Supermarkets today in China. They are pushing into Oz with chicken exports. Land and House got their banking license. The first new license in 40 years. It maybe wasn't in the interest of these companies themselves to pay to be in power, but they are not stupid and I am sure realise that if PPP disappears, they have a massive amount of money and influence to lose. Maybe they will pay now.

The money doesn't have to come from Thaksin alone. Whether they dip into their own pockets remains to be seen.

I don't doubt CP and Land and House gained massively from their share of favourable decisions for 7-11 (banned hyper market expansion), chicken (closed system push during chicken flu, chicken for planes/trains/automobiles), feed (various animal schemes with animals given away, food not) and so on. They did of course get a few set backs (True/Orange sent to the wall by AIS, Land and House denied the prime sites like the one the PM's wife is on the wall for right now) too.

As I understand it, both are somewhat pro TRT/PPP but they aren't anti Democrat; they give donations to both sides and let's face it, a huge chunk probably is going directly to some of the factions in chicken country, rice country, prawn country etc etc.

Neither of these companies will particularly pay, because they are actually well run, they can survive much the same as everyone else; the TRT years just gave them a massive headstart, particularly for 7:11. There certainly would not be a backlash.

By comparison, right now the Shinawatra family are PERSONALLY on the hook for billions of unpaid taxes, corruption charges and a bunch of other skeletons just waiting to be let out of the closet ranging from alleged cheating to get the 2 daughters into university through to petty henchling bribes for the Thai film festival, elite business card and so on. And that's not even looking at the enormous elephant in the room Airport which is the mother load of corruption for the TRT/PPP group with the Shinawatras right in the heart of it.

So my belief is the corporates will happily switch their backing to others; they were getting probably fairly fed up with the increasing demands by the end anyhow (at least some of the more favoured ones I know of) and the willingness of the ruling group to compete against them in their own businesses in the later years. It is money from the UK/HK more than any other that is willing to buy a result; corporates for the most part are willing to work with whoever other than a few in construction.

I don't bother to get my news about something sensible from the UK, why would I want to read the drivel that poses as news in the Guardian???! Methinks Thaksin's PR agency probably deserves a nice big raise; maybe I should work for a UK paper, it is pretty obvious you don't need to know a thing to work for them. Or for that matter, for the BBC if you report on Thailand ;-) Most people think that huh? Well I would guess most people don't even know where Thailand is....

They aren't anti democrat, but it will take them a long time to be given any countenance by them. This is becoming a with us or against us discussion.

The Shinawatra's appear to be running out of friend's very fast, but it is interesting to watch that the coalition is holding together. This is almost unheard of in the history of Thai politics as is this entire mess. Business and politics has been has been entwined in Thailand for ever. In the last 15 to 20 years even more so. Every major business group has had it's family representatives sitting in party or another.

TRT/PPP is new money. Telecoms, TV, Construction with CP in tow to help it get business overseas. It is every major business group except the old banking families and those of the CPB, who are democrats through and through. They won landslide victories and went about their business signing FTA's, even proposing to change the FBA. Very scary business if your entire business relies on the protection that these acts provide.

I believe that the business people involved in PPP/TRT feel that they have a massive amount of money/power and business influence to lose (for a very long time) should Sondhi/PAD prevail and be able to deliver even 50:50 as a concept for the lower house. Could you imagine that type of a Parliament trying to debate an FTA? "Selling the country", debate closed.

Never have and never will be a guardian reader.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Old Man River]

This mornings editorial in the Guardian. Shows what most people outside Thailand think....

[Editorial The Guardian, Wednesday September 10 2008

Mr Thaksin was a flawed politician who broke rules and cut corners, and Samak is his henchman, but both were elected by a large popular vote and that is, or ought to be, the bottom line.

The author of this editorial in the Guardian wants people to believe that both Thaksin and Samak were elected PM by a large popular vote. This is not the case.

#1 - In Thailand, PM's are not elected PM. Instead, they are MP's that have been elected and then chosen to be PM by the ruling coalition.

#2 - In the Dec. 2007 general election which saw Samak chosen as PM, the Democrats won the popular vote, not the PPP. The PPP won more seats in parliament.

I think this editorial was meant to be published on April 1st.

[Plus]

This mornings editorial in the Guardian. Shows what most people outside Thailand think....

Well, they have been misinformed. Happens all the time with outsiders.