Samak Found Guilty By Court, Must Resign

[Pierrot]

Sondhi DOES NOT have poltiical aspirations, never had.

Sondhi personally said that elites turned their back on him.

We agree sometime. Sondhi does not have any political aspiration; he definitively doesn't care about the future of this nation. His only motivation, and of half of his backers, is his personal hate of Thaksin.

Again, you’re right to say that the elites turned their back on him. The PAD is a major embarrassment for Thailand politicians from all sides. Just some are hypocritical enough to pretend that somehow the PAD is doing the “right” thing when actually the only thing they care about is to eventually be able to take the lucrative job of Samak and his friends.

But what I found the most amazing from all PAD supporters is to find a rational to support the “good” PAD doing the “wrong” things (invading government house, creating chaos, killing people …) hoping it will help the “bad” government to do the “right” thing (resign).

[Plus]

Sondhi does not have any political aspiration...

...the only thing they care about is to eventually be able to take the lucrative job of Samak and his friends.

Isn't there an apparent contradiction? Who is "they"? Some PAD leaders might venture into politics, like Rosana did, and, of course, there's Somkiyat who is a Democrat MP, but PAD is not going to transform itself into a political party.

[Los78]

Sondhi DOES NOT have poltiical aspirations, never had.

Sondhi personally said that elites turned their back on him.

We agree sometime. Sondhi does not have any political aspiration; he definitively doesn't care about the future of this nation. His only motivation, and of half of his backers, is his personal hate of Thaksin.

Again, you're right to say that the elites turned their back on him. The PAD is a major embarrassment for Thailand politicians from all sides. Just some are hypocritical enough to pretend that somehow the PAD is doing the "right" thing when actually the only thing they care about is to eventually be able to take the lucrative job of Samak and his friends.

But what I found the most amazing from all PAD supporters is to find a rational to support the "good" PAD doing the "wrong" things (invading government house, creating chaos, killing people …) hoping it will help the "bad" government to do the "right" thing (resign).

I couldn't have said it better myself.... It is quite clear that his hatred of Taksin is the predominate reason for PAD's existance and his media propaganda machine is what fuels his supporters.... Sad how someone can have so much hatred that he uses it to damage his own country......

Edited September 11, 2008 by Los78

[ThNiner]

Show me ONE message where I support or stand behind " the most evil and corrupt Thai Government of all time'', and, if you're busy writing your answer, please be my guest and INCLUDE the previous government as well.

If you post that support or prove that I stand behind the government, you say I give or gave, I pay you USD 1,000 OK ? That's 35,000 Baht

BUT, if you can NOT, will yu pay me the same ?

YOU, sir, make ME puke with INCORRECT messages like that and I expect an apology because you're dead wrong !

Note: in 99,99% of the cases I keep calm but with messages of your kind I lose my temper.

Mea Culpa to other members.

LaoPo

Just go back and read some of your previous posts. It's pretty obvious. And please keep your money. I just don't wanna touch it.

[Mobi]

Whether you are for or against the PAD, whether you hate or love Samak, and whether you feel the "democratic process" should be allowed to continue unhindered, the plain facts of the matter are:

Just about every newspaper and most media outlets have urged that Samak not to be reappointed for the sake of calming down the extremely tense and dangerous political state of the country.

Many leading and influential academics have also signed a written plea to this effect

Unions have also stated that it would be better that a PM other than Samak is appointed.

The army chief also requested that Samak step aside for the sake of the country.

Many of the minor parties in the coalition expressed strong doubts about the advisability of Samak being reappointed.

The Issan faction of the PPP publicly stated they didn't want Samak back.

Even some of the major players in the PPP were starting to express doubts whether Samak should become PM again.

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED??

The execs in PPP made a call to Thaksin. And almost immediately the reappointment of Samak was back on again, with virtually no dissenting voices within the coalition. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Thaksin is playing his Machiavellian games.

The whole country knows it will be disaster if Samak makes a comeback. But Thaksin doesn't care -he wants a disaster - he prays for it every day.

The more anarchy, chaos and violence the better. It's the only way he will ever stand a chance of returning to Thailand and regaining power.

Divide and create hatred and mayhem - and hope that his faction gets the upper hand in the expected maelstrom.

Why not? He has nothing to lose.

[jumnien]

As the Economist states, "The PAD's leaders are neither liberals nor democrats. A gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats, they demand not fresh elections, which they would lose, but a return to old-fashioned authoritarian rule, with a mostly appointed parliament and powers for the army to step in when it chooses."

Samak might be cooking a foul stew, but anything beats having animals like the PAD involved in government!

[LaoPo]

I have been warning about PAD and especially Sondhi. I'm afraid time will tell I was right when he grabs power, if pushed, steered & allowed by one side of the Elite and chosen by the people of Thailand. I called Sondhi a dangerous man and I'm working on a special topic that will show who the man really is; but it will take time. May Buddha prevent he becomes into power.

The language maybe moderate and reasonable, but nonsense nonetheless.

Sondhi DOES NOT have poltiical aspirations, never had.

Sondhi personally said that elites turned their back on him.

Sondhi's past has been exposed back in 2005, and he came clear on his support for Thaksin, too. I see no reason to dig it up as if no one ever heard about it.

70-30 proposal was for society to consider, not for PAD to enforce, a point completely lost on some people here.

If he says he doesn't have political aspirations, why did he form a (sleeping) political party in 2006 called the MASS PARTY * ? ....perhaps waiting for a chance to jump in ?... ..why form/create a political party AT ALL if there are NO POLITICAL aspirations; Can you explain that to me ?

Sondhi says so many things which he later either denies or changes. His only motivations are fed by hate for the people who brought him down (that's what he believes), Mr. T. and some families who owned the bank(s) and asked for his bankruptcy; right so.

* MASS PARTY:.... I'm just waiting for Mr. Sriracha John who will ask again if there is an update since the party was formed in 2006....

No, SRJ, I haven't heard yet about an update but there might be one sooner than we think or anticipate. If not, we just have to wait, don't we ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Party_(Thailand)

"The party unconventionally planned not to field MP candidates for the first 5 years,...."

...planned.... How many times do plans change, especially in Politics and even more in Thailand ?

LaoPo

Edited September 11, 2008 by LaoPo

[englishoak]

Samak accepts Thai PM nomination

09:29 GMT, Thursday, 11 September 2008 BBC

Parliament will vote on Mr Samak's nomination on Friday

Thailand's Samak Sundaravej has accepted his party's nomination as prime minister - two days after he was forced to quit the post.

The People's Power Party said there was nothing in the constitution to stop them from choosing him again.

The move is likely to be opposed by the PPP's coalition partners, as well as thousands of protesters who have sought Mr Samak's resignation.

Mr Samak was forced out after he was found to have flouted the constitution.

He was deemed by a court on Tuesday to have broken constitutional rules by accepting payments for his appearances on a TV cookery show.

Enraged protesters

"I thank the party for nominating me," Mr Samak, 73, told reporters.

"I am accepting the nomination in order to protect democracy in the country."

POLITICAL CRISIS

26 Aug: Protesters occupy government buildings, demand the government step down

28 Aug: PM Samak promises no use of force against the protesters

30 Aug: Samak rules out resignation, after meeting with Thailand's king

1 Sept: A late-night clash between pro- and anti-government groups leaves one dead. Samak declares a state of emergency

4 Sept: Samak proposes a national referendum

9 Sept: Court orders Samak to resign for violating constitution

11 Sept: PPP re-nominates Samak as prime minister

Q&A: Bangkok protests

The decision to re-nominate him came after a two-hour meeting of the PPP.

Spokesman Kuthep Saikrajang was quoted by the Bangkok Post website as saying Mr Samak had not done anything to damage the country.

His appearances on the show were as a result of misinterpreting the law, rather than from corruption or ill-intent, Mr Kuthep added.

Despite PPP support, Mr Samak will have to overcome some formidable obstacles to become prime minister again, the BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok says.

Thousands of protesters who have been holding a sit-in outside Government House calling for Mr Samak's resignation are expected to be enraged by the latest move.

They accuse him of being a proxy for Mr Thaksin, who was ousted in an army coup in 2006 amid accusations of corruption and abuse of power.

They have said they will continue their protest until a suitable replacement for Mr Samak is found.

Provocative decision

Mr Samak also faces opposition within parliament, which is due to elect the new prime minister on Friday.

Mr Samak's TV appearances were deemed unconstitutional

Although the PPP is the largest party in parliament, it does not have an outright majority and four of its five coalition partners have already said they want an alternative candidate.

It was not clear on Thursday whether they would join the opposition Democrats in a vote to reject the nomination.

On top of that, Mr Samak also faces disqualification again later this month if the verdict in a defamation case goes against him.

It raises the question, why does the PPP insist on re-nominating him, our correspondent says.

One theory is that they simply could not agree on another candidate. Another possibility is that the plausible alternatives lack the bravado Mr Samak has shown in taking on his opponents.

This will be seen as a provocative decision that does nothing to ease the political crisis in the country, our correspondent adds.

What a joke !

[LaoPo]

Show me ONE message where I support or stand behind " the most evil and corrupt Thai Government of all time'', and, if you're busy writing your answer, please be my guest and INCLUDE the previous government as well.

If you post that support or prove that I stand behind the government, you say I give or gave, I pay you USD 1,000 OK ? That's 35,000 Baht

BUT, if you can NOT, will yu pay me the same ?

YOU, sir, make ME puke with INCORRECT messages like that and I expect an apology because you're dead wrong !

Note: in 99,99% of the cases I keep calm but with messages of your kind I lose my temper.

Mea Culpa to other members.

LaoPo

Just go back and read some of your previous posts. It's pretty obvious. And please keep your money. I just don't wanna touch it.

You are confirming that you can't produce proof for your -serious- accusation and I demand an apology. You would show you're a Gentleman if you did.

If not, you're exposing yourself who you really are.

LaoPo

[Pierrot]

Sondhi does not have any political aspiration...

...the only thing they care about is to eventually be able to take the lucrative job of Samak and his friends.

Isn't there an apparent contradiction? Who is "they"? Some PAD leaders might venture into politics, like Rosana did, and, of course, there's Somkiyat who is a Democrat MP, but PAD is not going to transform itself into a political party.

Plus, you're smarter than that !

Pls read again my complete post. "they" refers to the hypocritical politicians who won’t take a firm stand on PAD action. They can’t overtly support the PAD but can’t be more happy of the embarrassment it creates to the current government.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Pierrot

[Los78]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

Chaos?

Been here for 5 years and every single act of violence related to politics was triggered by or directly involved TRT-PPP themselves or the pro-TRT/PPP zombies attacking others.

I also have always, still do and always will blame the unsolved Bangkok bombing on that camp, fits them too well.

And you are worried about PAD creating chaos?

Yes PAD have created enough chaos and are the only people who have beaten a man to death.... All your speculation about the past is just more propagandha that you have been fed like your fellow PAD sheep. Oh big bad Taksin.... Get over him and get some sleep.... There is more to life then Sondhi vs Taksin (PPP). PAD are just a Mob of programed robots who most of the time dont relise what the real issues are. If the rule of law worked properly in Thailand Sondhi would of been in jail a long time ago but he is just as currupted as the rest of the PAD leadership... Do a google of your PAD leadership and find out.

[animatic]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

Chaos?

Been here for 5 years and every single act of violence related to politics was triggered by or directly involved TRT-PPP themselves or the pro-TRT/PPP zombies attacking others.

I also have always, still do and always will blame the unsolved Bangkok bombing on that camp, fits them too well.

And you are worried about PAD creating chaos?

Yes PAD have created enough chaos and are the only people who have beaten a man to death.... All your speculation about the past is just more propagandha that you have been fed like your fellow PAD sheep. Oh big bad Taksin.... Get over him and get some sleep.... There is more to life then Sondhi vs Taksin (PPP). PAD are just a Mob of programed robots who most of the time dont relise what the real issues are. If the rule of law worked properly in Thailand Sondhi would of been in jail a long time ago but he is just as currupted as the rest of the PAD leadership... Do a google of your PAD leadership and find out.

Why not just shoot the messenger,

that's PPP's preferred method, shut up dissenting voices.

[LaoPo]

If the rule of law worked properly in Thailand Sondhi would of been in jail a long time ago but he is just as currupted as the rest of the PAD leadership... Do a google of your PAD leadership and find out.

TRUE !

The article below shows the morality a man like Sondhi embraces; low class morals

Just a brief example...there is a LOT MORE out there:

***************************************************

SONDHI LIMTHONGKUL: Debt-ridden payment avoider

-----------------------------------------------

Since the outbreak of the economic crisis, many Thai

businessmen haven't hesitated to reveal their innermost

feelings about debt repayment. Among those financially

incapable of repaying loans, publisher Sondhi Limthongkul's

protests of insolvency have perhaps been the loudest.

His own theories about debt, however, differ from those of

most other businessmen in the Kingdom. For example, steel

tycoon Sawasdi Horrungruang immediately set to work finding

ways to repay his steel group's loans, worth billions of

baht. His motto, which was highly admired at the time, is:

"I have no money, I can't repay loans - but I won't run

away."

Sondhi, however, has shown no enthusiasm for debt

repayment. From the day the debt-restructuring process

began for his flagship companies until now, with the

process completed, he has blamed creditors for showing

no sympathy and the government for abruptly changing the

foreign exchange policy, which automatically doubled the

foreign loan burden of his and many other companies.

Speaking at a public event last week - not about the

economy but rather about a martial arts novel - Sondhi

appeared to show no change in his thinking. Debt

moratorium seems to be his mantra whenever the subject of

indebtedness - both of the government and of his own empire

- comes up.

Thailand is only doing foreigners a favour by guaranteeing

repayment of all loans, he said. We're fooling ourselves by

behaving as if we're still rich. "Nobody forced those

foreign banks to extend loans to my company," he

continued. "They were willing and they received interest

payments. When the economy was in crisis, they said the

business outlook was poor [but] they still wanted to be

repaid."

(The Nation 11-September-2000) & Troubled Company Reporter -- Asia Pacific

*******************************************************

And a man with this kind of MORALITY is standing on the barricades, telling Thailand to listen to him ?

A man who -repeatedly- said to his audience:

"Publisher, businessman and born-again democracy crusader Sondhi Limthongkul likes to think of himself as a martyr-in-waiting. The sworn enemy of embattled Thai leader Thaksin Shinawatra, Sondhi routinely tells his weekly talk show audience that he is willing to die in his effort to see his nemesis banished from politics"

-Asia Sentinel 4 august 2006

and this kind of rubbish is believed ?

I repeat my warning: be careful for Sondhi: he is a dangerous man.

On the other hand I think the Thai population is smart and intelligent enough to find out.....SOON.

LaoPo

[h90]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

Chaos?

Been here for 5 years and every single act of violence related to politics was triggered by or directly involved TRT-PPP themselves or the pro-TRT/PPP zombies attacking others.

I also have always, still do and always will blame the unsolved Bangkok bombing on that camp, fits them too well.

And you are worried about PAD creating chaos?

Yes PAD have created enough chaos and are the only people who have beaten a man to death.... All your speculation about the past is just more propagandha that you have been fed like your fellow PAD sheep. Oh big bad Taksin.... Get over him and get some sleep.... There is more to life then Sondhi vs Taksin (PPP). PAD are just a Mob of programed robots who most of the time dont relise what the real issues are. If the rule of law worked properly in Thailand Sondhi would of been in jail a long time ago but he is just as currupted as the rest of the PAD leadership... Do a google of your PAD leadership and find out.

give me a link about the corruption of Chamlong please.

[TAWP]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

The government can and always SHOULD be attacked when they are doing something wrong. That is the obligation of the people. This is why the second amendment is so important in the US. Why the right to free speech and the right to have big demonstrations so important.

I consider PAD a tool amongst many to remove a corrupt regime.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them.

This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

But again you fail to grasp that when you claim that people that are so against PPP are supporting PAD and an 'undemocratic system'. Fight the power.

[LaoPo]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

You're mistaken.

If I warn for Sondhi and what he stands for -PAD- which ''baby'' he created, it doesn't automatically mean that I support the PPP.

I don't.

LaoPo

[TAWP]

By trying to dismantle PAD [and others] protests and fight to bring down the government you are helping the PPP and therefor in reality, with your actions, supporting them. No-matter what your heart supposedly feels.

It's they way it works.

Edited September 11, 2008 by TAWP

[Thai at Heart]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

The government can and always SHOULD be attacked when they are doing something wrong. That is the obligation of the people. This is why the second amendment is so important in the US. Why the right to free speech and the right to have big demonstrations so important.

I consider PAD a tool amongst many to remove a corrupt regime.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them.

This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

But again you fail to grasp that when you claim that people that are so against PPP are supporting PAD and an 'undemocratic system'. Fight the power.

With a 70:30 or a 50:50 parliament, please explain how you would get rid of them? Your vote would automatically be reduced in value.

If all he was doing was campaigning for the removal of TRT/PPP the discussion would be very different. Statements such as 70:30 or 50:50 suggest that he has a much larger agenda than simply removing the current government. The statements are out in the public domain, have been pulled this way and that and until retracted deserve to be discussed.

[Crushdepth]

What irritates me (and yes, I'm on my soapbox here) is people that lecture about 'democracy' + 'PPP was elected' = 'government that can do as it pleases' (eg. break the law). Hello people, wake up. Governments have to follow the law because THAT'S WHAT GOVERNMENT IS. It's GOVERNment. If you don't understand that, please wrap yourself in some nice heavy chains and go throw yourself in the river. Alternatively, you might consider migrating to a country with world-class despot/dictator/religious nut of your choice (eg. North Korea), because you deserve no better.

Yes, demonstrations are annoying. Yes, in and ideal world protestors that broke the law would be rounded up at dusk and locked in some nice comfy padded cells for the night with free attitude counselling in the morning. But this isn't an ideal world. The present government is corrupt as hel_l, and when the government breaks the law or seeks to undermine democratic values, all bets are off. Now clearly a lot of people posting about the current political situation have no clue about democratic systems of government, have no clue about governance at all, come from comfy democratic countries where democracy and rule of law can (unwisely) be taken for granted, and/or just wouldn't know Thai culture if it bit them on the arse.

If the government of your own comfy democractic country was riddled with corruption, ripping of staggering quantities of taxpayers money, and actively undermining democracy via electoral fraud and money politics is the correct response i) to bend over and take it up the arse or ii) stage a protest and try to hold the fuc_kers to account ? Thailand hasn't reached the stage where it can take democracy for granted (not that anyone ever should). Insisting on free and fair elections and law-abiding politicians is not wrong. That's what people are fighting for.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them. This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

Absolutely. Consider the best interests of the country. To hel_l with politicians (and especially their wannabe and usually much more evil advisors).

Edited September 11, 2008 by Crushdepth

[ThNiner]

What irritates me (and yes, I'm on my soapbox here) is people that lecture about 'democracy' + 'PPP was elected' = 'government that can do as it pleases' (eg. break the law). Hello people, wake up. Governments have to follow the law because THAT'S WHAT GOVERNMENT IS. It's GOVERNment. If you don't understand that, please wrap yourself in some nice heavy chains and go throw yourself in the river. Alternatively, you might consider migrating to a country with world-class despot/dictator/religious nut of your choice (eg. North Korea), because you deserve no better.

Yes, demonstrations are annoying. Yes, in and ideal world protestors that broke the law would be rounded up at dusk and locked in some nice comfy padded cells for the night with free attitude counselling in the morning. But this isn't an ideal world. The present government is corrupt as hel_l, and when the government breaks the law or seeks to undermine democratic values, all bets are off. Now clearly a lot of people posting about the current political situation have no clue about democratic systems of government, have no clue about governance at all, come from comfy democratic countries where democracy and rule of law can (unwisely) be taken for granted, and/or just wouldn't know Thai culture if it bit them on the arse.

If the government of your own comfy democractic country was riddled with corruption, ripping of staggering quantities of taxpayers money, and actively undermining democracy via electoral fraud and money politics is the correct response i) to bend over and take it up the arse or ii) stage a protest and try to hold the fuc_kers to account ? Thailand hasn't reached the stage where it can take democracy for granted (not that anyone ever should). Insisting on free and fair elections and law-abiding politicians is not wrong. That's what people are fighting for.

[LaoPo]

By trying to dismantle PAD [and others] protests and fight to bring down the government you are helping the PPP and therefor in reality, with your actions, supporting them. No-matter what your heart supposedly feels.

It's they way it works.

No Sir, it's NOT the way it works.

For me, and I have said that many times before, but let me repeat it:

Thaksin and Samak, for me, are HISTORY already and I did NOT support either the TRT nor PPP.

That does NOT mean that I support the idiotic ideas by yet another lunatic, who has low class morals, Mr. Sondhi.

The man said he wanted to die to see Thaksin stripped from power in politics....is he dead ?

The man said he would become a Monk for the rest of his life if Samak is removed; OK, Samak isn't gone yet, but he will; does anyone think Sondhi will go and become a Monk in a monastery for the rest of his life ?

I'm surprised that there are quite a few intelligent Farang here who believe this man.

LaoPo

[TAWP]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

The government can and always SHOULD be attacked when they are doing something wrong. That is the obligation of the people. This is why the second amendment is so important in the US. Why the right to free speech and the right to have big demonstrations so important.

I consider PAD a tool amongst many to remove a corrupt regime.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them.

This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

But again you fail to grasp that when you claim that people that are so against PPP are supporting PAD and an 'undemocratic system'. Fight the power.

With a 70:30 or a 50:50 parliament, please explain how you would get rid of them? Your vote would automatically be reduced in value.

If all he was doing was campaigning for the removal of TRT/PPP the discussion would be very different. Statements such as 70:30 or 50:50 suggest that he has a much larger agenda than simply removing the current government. The statements are out in the public domain, have been pulled this way and that and until retracted deserve to be discussed.

I see that you fail to read and comprehend my post. So I will try again.

Being against PPP and using PAD as a tool in their removal is not supporting PADs views. It's not even allowing them to come even close to power.

It's just trying to make sure the current regime is toppled.

Edit: I'm saddened to see that LaoPo failed to grasp the reality of the situation and decided to go off on a tangent about Thaksin being 'gone' (which he, btw, isn't).

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. And Thaksin is making sure she is tied and gagged in his basement.

Edited September 11, 2008 by TAWP

[ThNiner]

Thanks to LaoPo, I now understand what a laughing stock is.

[Los78]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

The government can and always SHOULD be attacked when they are doing something wrong. That is the obligation of the people. This is why the second amendment is so important in the US. Why the right to free speech and the right to have big demonstrations so important.

I consider PAD a tool amongst many to remove a corrupt regime.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them.

This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

But again you fail to grasp that when you claim that people that are so against PPP are supporting PAD and an 'undemocratic system'. Fight the power.

Yes to demonstrate is one thing and right that all people should have. But to take over TV stations, kill in the name of defence and not to mention take over governement house (all against the law) Is completly another thing... Does that happen in US politics??? I dont think so... In the west these protesters would of been moved or locked up a long time ago. This kind of leniency would not of been tolerated but it is a sensative issue in Thailand so we come to present problems. So defending them just goes against your comparison with USA. The elite backers of PAD and some members are all currupted in the same way as all parties in Thailand are to some degree, unfortunetly its a cultural thing in Asia. It just happens if your support is a step back to Dictatorship (PAD) New politics or continue with a democratic system. This current system isnt the best as with even US system isnt the best, but its far better then what the PAD are proposing. Come on everyone has the right to vote wether they are poor or rich. Thats democracy. No one should be appointed. Thats almost how the Nazi's or Communsits got back into power. PAD are doing the same kind of things as to what happened with all major new political systems and thats the scary part. If you are taken away by the PAD propaganda rants then you would be taken away by the likes of Hitler sad to say.... The current events are not just about politics, as it is also a bitter hatred that Sondhi has against Taksin, but thats another story...

[LaoPo]

Edit: I'm saddened to see that LaoPo failed to grasp the reality of the situation and decided to go off on a tangent about Thaksin being 'gone' (which he, btw, isn't).

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. And Thaksin is making sure she is tied and gagged in his basement.

Don't feel saddened about me TAWP; no need for

More serious though: we seem to differ who is able to grasp reality, you or me.

I wrote: Thaksin and Samak, for me, are HISTORY already and I did NOT support either the TRT nor PPP.

If, in your and others, opinion Thaksin is NOT gone, well.....Time will tell I suppose but I do respect opinions of others; that's what democracy is all about, isn't it ?

LaoPo

[ThNiner]

Yes to demonstrate is one thing and right that all people should have. But to take over TV stations, kill in the name of defence and not to mention take over governement house (all against the law) Is completly another thing... Does that happen in US politics??? I dont think so... In the west these protesters would of been moved or locked up a long time ago. This kind of leniency would not of been tolerated but it is a sensative issue in Thailand so we come to present problems. So defending them just goes against your comparison with USA. The elite backers of PAD and some members are all currupted in the same way as all parties in Thailand are to some degree, unfortunetly its a cultural thing in Asia. It just happens if your support is a step back to Dictatorship (PAD) New politics or continue with a democratic system. This current system isnt the best as with even US system isnt the best, but its far better then what the PAD are proposing. Come on everyone has the right to vote wether they are poor or rich. Thats democracy. No one should be appointed. Thats almost how the Nazi's or Communsits got back into power. PAD are doing the same kind of things as to what happened with all major new political systems and thats the scary part. If you are taken away by the PAD propaganda rants then you would be taken away by the likes of Hitler sad to say.... The current events are not just about politics, as it is also a bitter hatred that Sondhi has against Taksin, but thats another story...

It's one PUBLIC TV station (not stations) which has been funded by all Thai people's tax money, yet it has been consistently working as a mouthpiece of this corrupt gov't to fuel the violence hatred and division among Thai people. I'm against the raiding of NBT, but can totally understand why some people would be so outraged by the way this PUBLIC TV station has conducted their business.

Why did you have to exaggerate and ignore a few facts?

[TAWP]

LaoPo and other PPP-appologists that try to paint that PAD is worse and a bigger threat, please realize one thing. The PAD isn't in power. The PPP are.

By continuously attacking PAD and, with your logic saying that people are stupid to support them and should have such a strong dislike for PPP, you ARE supporting PPP.

The government can and always SHOULD be attacked when they are doing something wrong. That is the obligation of the people. This is why the second amendment is so important in the US. Why the right to free speech and the right to have big demonstrations so important.

I consider PAD a tool amongst many to remove a corrupt regime.

If PAD got into power and worked against my belief I would support whatever faction that was out there that worked to overthrow them.

This is how a proper freedom loving person should reason. You don't support an oppressive and corrupt regime due to others might exist or might, possibly, in the future be bad. You fight them all.

But again you fail to grasp that when you claim that people that are so against PPP are supporting PAD and an 'undemocratic system'. Fight the power.

Yes to demonstrate is one thing and right that all people should have. But to take over TV stations, kill in the name of defence and not to mention take over governement house (all against the law) Is completly another thing... Does that happen in US politics??? I dont think so... In the west these protesters would of been moved or locked up a long time ago. This kind of leniency would not of been tolerated but it is a sensative issue in Thailand so we come to present problems. So defending them just goes against your comparison with USA. The elite backers of PAD and some members are all currupted in the same way as all parties in Thailand are to some degree, unfortunetly its a cultural thing in Asia. It just happens if your support is a step back to Dictatorship (PAD) New politics or continue with a democratic system. This current system isnt the best as with even US system isnt the best, but its far better then what the PAD are proposing. Come on everyone has the right to vote wether they are poor or rich. Thats democracy. No one should be appointed. Thats almost how the Nazi's or Communsits got back into power. PAD are doing the same kind of things as to what happened with all major new political systems and thats the scary part. If you are taken away by the PAD propaganda rants then you would be taken away by the likes of Hitler sad to say.... The current events are not just about politics, as it is also a bitter hatred that Sondhi has against Taksin, but thats another story...

If you quote my post please make sure your reply addresses anything I wrote. Anything else would be a straw-man attack or a rant.

[LaoPo]

Thanks to LaoPo, I now understand what a laughing stock is.

So you finally had a look in the mirror today ?

Thanks for the laugh !

LaoPo

[TAWP]

Edit: I'm saddened to see that LaoPo failed to grasp the reality of the situation and decided to go off on a tangent about Thaksin being 'gone' (which he, btw, isn't).

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. And Thaksin is making sure she is tied and gagged in his basement.

Don't feel saddened about me TAWP; no need for

More serious though: we seem to differ who is able to grasp reality, you or me.

I wrote: Thaksin and Samak, for me, are HISTORY already and I did NOT support either the TRT nor PPP.

If, in your and others, opinion Thaksin is NOT gone, well.....Time will tell I suppose but I do respect opinions of others; that's what democracy is all about, isn't it ?

LaoPo

I assume you have spent some time in asia and therefor you should know that as long as they have any friends and money left they are a force to be rekond with (Thaksin and co.). I wished Thaksin was gone, but alas, politics in Asia rarely go in the way of my wishes...

And I would not say that democracy is about respecting other peoples opinion. It's not related. Basic decency is about that. And a human right would be to be allowed to have any opinion one wants. Democracy is however only about voting representatives of your opinion or will into a legislative assembly, nothing more nor less...

[ThNiner]

Thanks to LaoPo, I now understand what a laughing stock is.

So you finally had a look in the mirror today ?

Thanks for the laugh !

LaoPo

Wow, I'm impressed by the level of maturity and intelligence of someone who's supposedly first came to Thailand even before I was born.