Samak Found Guilty By Court, Must Resign

[kurtgruen]

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QUOTE ( @ 2008-09-11 17:51:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanh-BKK

It has come to an extent when peeple post questions like:

"Massive vote buying". If you have proof of this accusation you should report it to the EC. To date there are only a few incidents under investigation and adjudication.

Or perhaps it might be just your opinion based on hearsay with no actual proof?

and...

Who in the government is a criminal? Please provide proof of the court case and criminal verdicts of any names you provide.

I think you shouldn't even bother wasting your time to explain or answer to them anymore.

Either they don't live in Thailand, or, they are living in a self-made hole in Thailand.

I agree, that's why I haven't responded to their irrational rants. I'm sure that when Samak gets found guilty of libel again (the decision upheld), when the court finally gets to deal with him again, all these Pro Thaksin/Samak/PPP people will have another excuse and blame the courts of the PAD. So I choose to just ignore them now ;-)

[LaoPo]

Re: "cooking case"

I do NOT see THAT one as "criminal" - that one is indeed a joke. Ok he violated the constitution and that is illegal, however a cooking show does hardly any damage to anyone.

He should have stuck to cooking instead of politics, i guess it would have been better for both himself and the country.

Thanh

But didn't you know that there are more -obsessed- Farang Judges in Thailand than Thai Judges ? If a Hi-So Thai farts, he's a criminal in the eyes of the self appointed Farang Judges. Court rooms are not necessary anymore because the accused has been found guilty already, right here on TV.

LaoPo

[ThNiner]

Actually PAD wants the rule of law,....

Yes, their laws...

* 70% appointed and 30% elected.

You mean the totalitarian laws by the PAD, read: Sondhi Limthongkul and Suriyasai,, who said they find the uneducated rural poor not 'fit' enough to vote.

Yeah, right.

You're blinded h90...blinded.

So, is the PAD's 70:30 'new politics' really a step backward or forward?

It's really backward and reactionary. It's a conservative idea that tries to undermine electoral politics. Everybody knows that electoral politics has problems, including empowering certain groups over others. What the PAD proposes is definitely not the way forward.

Everyone on earth knows about the problems that the PAD talks about, but selection does not solve the problems. There are problems with elections, hence no elections? The solution is to improve the elections, like liberalizing the party system, setting more controls over party spending, making smaller constituencies to allow more chance for people really representing the people to win.

Democracy is based on the principle that electoral power comes from the people. The PAD is entitled to attack the elections, but their solution is not the way to empower the people more, bur will instead empower certain groups of people, hence returning to the 'elitist politics'.

You may want to read the rest here and form an opinion yourself:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=694

LaoPo

PAD has backed off from that suggestion for ages LaoPo. They recently have said that they just want more people from all walks of life to represent the government of Thailand. That 70:30 thing was just an idea, NOT their demand or ultimatum.

Anyway I'm Thai and I do think that foreigners who are backing Samak and his gov't are really as morally corrupt as them. Frankly, LaoPo, I've been reading this forum for a while and have never seen you say anything positive about Thailand. I know you just have sick intentions against Thailand. And people like you really sicken me.

[^_^]

I agree, that's why I haven't responded to their irrational rants. I'm sure that when Samak gets found guilty of libel again (the decision upheld), when the court finally gets to deal with him again, all these Pro Thaksin/Samak/PPP people will have another excuse and blame the courts of the PAD. So I choose to just ignore them now ;-)

kurtgruen,

Wise Decision

[ubonjoe]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

This government came by massive vote buying into power and not by fair elections. So this government is your "virtual dictatorial style ruling party."

Ditto.

Just spent an hour with a well spoken lady from Ubon,

She confirms ALL vote buying issues raised.

She knows this first hand, she has turned down

2k baht PLUS bus fare to Ubon just to go an talk

people into voting PPP.

This is common knowledge except in certain corners of farang-land here

That sounds like she was being offered a job as a campaign worker not vote buying.

[JoeInSurin]

I agree, that's why I haven't responded to their irrational rants. I'm sure that when Samak gets found guilty of libel again (the decision upheld), when the court finally gets to deal with him again, all these Pro Thaksin/Samak/PPP people will have another excuse and blame the courts of the PAD. So I choose to just ignore them now ;-)

"Irrational rants"? Great argument when you have no answers. I am sure Samak and the bunch are no good with proof or not. I also think PAD is no good with proof I have personally seen on the TV. How can you be so critical of the PPP breaking the law and not be critical of PAD also. It's a little like the pot calling the kettle "black".

[^_^]

Personally, I''m glad if Samak is announced back as PM again...as he's good fuel for the PAD Rally

Further proves how sick & twisted this Government is

On the other hand, I'm afraid it'll get bloody with Samak in power

Edited September 11, 2008 by ^_^

[ThNiner]

I'm really baffled by how supportive of these crooks of gov't people like LaoPo have been. People like him have always been the first ones to ridicule Thailand and the poeple for our lack of good governance, corruption and imcompetence. Yet right now they are sternly standing behind the most evil and corrupt Thai gov't of all time.

Some people really make me wanna puke.

Edited September 11, 2008 by ThNiner

[Moonrakers]

"How old are you at that time?"

"You born yet?"

"I haven't got any concerns"

"Only one guy died in Sanam Luang."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15xoq8uYdIE

This interview is even more probing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WlhPxyxbJo...feature=related

[animatic]

Re: "cooking case"

I do NOT see THAT one as "criminal" - that one is indeed a joke. Ok he violated the constitution and that is illegal, however a cooking show does hardly any damage to anyone.

He should have stuck to cooking instead of politics, i guess it would have been better for both himself and the country.

Thanh

Thanh, the main issue is not cooking,

but taking money for working for a media production company

while his government regulates media content and airtime.

Pure conflict of interest. Nothing more or less.

Plus his obtuseness at ignoring the law.

[Moonrakers]

And Samak was deputy when this happened:

(Warning, this is quite disturbing)

Why oh why is this guy allowed anywhere near a government? And why oh why are people still defending him?

[ThNiner]

"How old are you at that time?"

"You born yet?"

"I haven't got any concerns"

"Only one guy died in Sanam Luang."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15xoq8uYdIE

This interview is even more probing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WlhPxyxbJo...feature=related

Yup. Thanks krab khun Globalj.

Interviewer, "Would you like to take this opportunity now to condemn what happened in '76."

Samak, "Actually, it's (just) a movement of some students. ....Just only one died in Sanam Luang. ...One unlucky guy."

Samak your inside is really even uglier than your outside.

Edited September 11, 2008 by ThNiner

[LaoPo]

1. PAD has backed off from that suggestion for ages LaoPo. They recently have said that they just want more people from all walks of life to represent the government of Thailand. That 70:30 thing was just an idea, NOT their demand or ultimatum.

2. Anyway I'm Thai and I do think that foreigners who are backing Samak and his gov't are really as morally corrupt as them. Frankly, LaoPo, I've been reading this forum for a while and have never seen you say anything positive about Thailand. I know you just have sick intentions against Thailand. And people like you really sicken me.

1. Ages ago ? *** Let me know when PAD said they came back from the 70:30 laws they suggested ? Where and when did they say so ? If possible a link please.

2. You're incorrect that I have sick intentions and show me where I have been negative about Thailand ? I came to Thailand for the first time more than 30 years ago, did business here with important THAI companies and enjoyed many many stays in this 'exciting' country.

BUT, I have been warning about PAD and especially Sondhi. I'm afraid time will tell I was right when he grabs power, if pushed, steered & allowed by one side of the Elite and chosen by the people of Thailand. I called Sondhi a dangerous man and I'm working on a special topic that will show who the man really is; but it will take time. May Buddha prevent he becomes into power.

*** Ages ago ?

Better read this, just from the beginning of July, not even 2 1/2 months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Samak-Guilty...91#entry2208191

PS: I am sorry if you feel sick about me but sometimes people, even if you're Thai, are blinded by the tunnel vision they have. I'm not a fan of the present nor previous governments but the -possible- future with a hatred guy like Sondhi at the steering wheel frightens me more than the present government.

If PAD supporters/protesters think this man is doing what he does for the benefit of -the people of- Thailand they will find out they are dead wrong.

Sondhi does this out of pure HATE and self pity....hate towards his one time friend Mr. T. and certain Hi-So families who controlled the bank(s) who asked (and got) his bankruptcy of his conglomerate, back in 1997 when he lost more than USD 500 Million.

And then ? ...he declared himself bankrupt for 3 years with a PERSONAL debt of Baht 1,5 BILLION in order to avoid to have to pay this money back....what class

Just think of that.

LaoPo

[animatic]

Actually PAD wants the rule of law,....

Yes, their laws...

* 70% appointed and 30% elected.

You mean the totalitarian laws by the PAD, read: Sondhi Limthongkul and Suriyasai,, who said they find the uneducated rural poor not 'fit' enough to vote.

Yeah, right.

You're blinded h90...blinded.

So, is the PAD's 70:30 'new politics' really a step backward or forward?

It's really backward and reactionary. It's a conservative idea that tries to undermine electoral politics. Everybody knows that electoral politics has problems, including empowering certain groups over others. What the PAD proposes is definitely not the way forward.

Everyone on earth knows about the problems that the PAD talks about, but selection does not solve the problems. There are problems with elections, hence no elections? The solution is to improve the elections, like liberalizing the party system, setting more controls over party spending, making smaller constituencies to allow more chance for people really representing the people to win.

Democracy is based on the principle that electoral power comes from the people. The PAD is entitled to attack the elections, but their solution is not the way to empower the people more, bur will instead empower certain groups of people, hence returning to the 'elitist politics'.

You may want to read the rest here and form an opinion yourself:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=694

LaoPo

PAD has backed off from that suggestion for ages LaoPo. They recently have said that they just want more people from all walks of life to represent the government of Thailand. That 70:30 thing was just an idea, NOT their demand or ultimatum.

Anyway I'm Thai and I do think that foreigners who are backing Samak and his gov't are really as morally corrupt as them. Frankly, LaoPo, I've been reading this forum for a while and have never seen you say anything positive about Thailand. I know you just have sick intentions against Thailand. And people like you really sicken me.

OUCH!

Most of us have a lot of hope for Thailand.

Some it's not obvious...

[LaoPo]

OUCH!

Most of us have a lot of hope for Thailand.

Some it's not obvious...

Out of curiosity Animatic: where do you put your cards for the future of Thailand ?

Which party, group, coalition ?

LaoPo

[kurtgruen]

Re: "cooking case"

I do NOT see THAT one as "criminal" - that one is indeed a joke. Ok he violated the constitution and that is illegal, however a cooking show does hardly any damage to anyone.

He should have stuck to cooking instead of politics, i guess it would have been better for both himself and the country.

Thanh

Thanh, the main issue is not cooking,

but taking money for working for a media production company

while his government regulates media content and airtime.

Pure conflict of interest. Nothing more or less.

Plus his obtuseness at ignoring the law.

and lying about it in court, when questioned about receiving money

[younghusband]

I'm really baffled by how supportive of these crooks of gov't people like LaoPo have been. People like him have always been the first ones to ridicule Thailand and the poeple for our lack of good governance, corruption and imcompetence. Yet right now they are sternly standing behind the most evil and corrupt Thai gov't of all time.

Some people really make me wanna puke.

I cannot see that Laopo has expressed in moderate and reasonable language other than what a great many of us believe.The coarse and ill educated way you express your views do you no credit, nor do you reflect the views of most Thais.

[citizen33]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

This government came by massive vote buying into power and not by fair elections. So this government is your "virtual dictatorial style ruling party."

Whether you like it or not, and whatever irregularities may have occurred involving PPP and others, TRT/PPP are massively popular in the NE and North. That, of course, is why the PAD (and I would say the Democrats too) do not favour resolution of the crisis through a referendum or one-person-one-vote general election.

[animatic]

OUCH!

Most of us have a lot of hope for Thailand.

Some it's not obvious...

Out of curiosity Animatic: where do you put your cards for the future of Thailand ?

Which party, group, coalition ?

LaoPo

There is no current GROUP that gives much hope in the present conditions.

But I DID post a few days back about a revamp of the voting situation,

and nary a comment was seen from the stridently vocal opposition.

The Thai people if given true freedom to make informed decisions

without economic or cultural coercion are the future.

It can be pared back to acceptable norms of corruption

IF the will of the people is actualized.

Informing accurately them is part of making their will be known.

But at this point ANY absolutist reading of press reports of ANY of the parties involved

does not reflect reality on the ground.

A doctrinaire acceptance of the status quo also does not reflect an overly thoughtful mind set.

He who defends a scoundrel is not far behind no matter the RIGHTIOUSNESS of his arguments

The Thai people MUST break new ground, and plow the old into fertilizer.

From this I sweetly hope can grow a new generation with better opportunities for all.

If they lay back down and lie like servants they have little chance of moving ahead.

[ThNiner]

LaoPo, I did overstate the timescale when I said "ages" ago. But they did back off. If you could read Thai, you would have seen numerous reports of this already. And I can't bother to google it for you.

And you can say about how much you love and care for Thailand as much as you want, but I'm Thai and have seen you never be anything but consistently negative about Thailand and the people. Whatever you just said to defend yourself really just means jack to me. Any Thai who's been reading your comments about our country would feel the exact same way as I do. I don't give two hoots about your CV or how long you've been in the country. Your comments have already given away who you really are. All right?

And how silly do people like you have to get to keep bringing up Sondhi's dodgy past while totally ignoring and defending numerous hedious and far worse crimes Thaksin/TRT/PP have been committing? Can't you see how absurd it is. I think this is even beyond what you call a double standard. How could any reasonable or sane person not see the countless crimes Thaksin/TRT/PPP have been committing when they are so appalled by what Sondhi did? What kind of a reasonable and sane person are you to be this blind?

And you don't think that Thai people like me are aware of Sondhi's past? Trust me we all know this. But we see this as a real opportunity for a better future of the country, and no way that we're gonna let Sondhi get into power. Sondhi himself still faces many charges and I suspect that he will be in jail at one point or another. we are not supporting Sondhi to be the next PM. We just wanna get rid of this corrupt "democracy" for good.

Your reason for backing this evil and corrupt gov't is just really weak to me. But maybe like I've said, you are just playing this character because in the bottom of your heart, you just hate Thailand and for some reason want Thailand to forever be in shambles.

[Ricardo]

Re: "cooking case"

I do NOT see THAT one as "criminal" - that one is indeed a joke. Ok he violated the constitution and that is illegal, however a cooking show does hardly any damage to anyone.

He should have stuck to cooking instead of politics, i guess it would have been better for both himself and the country.

Thanh

Thanh, the main issue is not cooking,

but taking money for working for a media production company

while his government regulates media content and airtime.

Pure conflict of interest. Nothing more or less.

Plus his obtuseness at ignoring the law.

and lying about it in court, when questioned about receiving money

Happily in this democratic country, a convicted criminal in London can direct that Samak is again nominated and elected PM, despite his previous conflict of interests or lying to the court.

Now what would the PAD, or even a fair-minded & reasonable farang, see as wrong with that ?

[animatic]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

This government came by massive vote buying into power and not by fair elections. So this government is your "virtual dictatorial style ruling party."

Ditto.

Just spent an hour with a well spoken lady from Ubon,

She confirms ALL vote buying issues raised.

She knows this first hand, she has turned down

2k baht PLUS bus fare to Ubon just to go an talk

people into voting PPP.

This is common knowledge except in certain corners of farang-land here

That sounds like she was being offered a job as a campaign worker not vote buying.

Yes and no.

They wanted her to lie for them,

since she had said she didn't believe several of their written talking points.

They said no matter, if you take the money you say this, nothing else.

She clearly was being asked to shill for them and it WAS to be while

'attached' to a local money handler.

She is a beautiful, sucessfull business operator, mother and wife,

a truly impressive woman, and she told them NO in no uncertain terms.

Edited September 11, 2008 by animatic

[ThNiner]

Whether you like it or not, and whatever irregularities may have occurred involving PPP and others, TRT/PPP are massively popular in the NE and North. That, of course, is why the PAD (and I would say the Democrats too) do not favour resolution of the crisis through a referendum or one-person-one-vote general election.

Citizen33, I'm not gonna guess what hole you have been living in, but the Dems were the first to offer the dissolution of the House and a general election as a solution to the current crisis. The Dems did offer these during the debate in the House in the first week that PAD has occupied "Tamneab Rattaban." (I just don't know the English word for this right now....it's basically the Thai version of the White House.)

And younghusband, I'm just not gonna waste my time with you. All right?

[blaze]

I'm really baffled by how supportive of these crooks of gov't people like LaoPo have been. People like him have always been the first ones to ridicule Thailand and the poeple for our lack of good governance, corruption and imcompetence. Yet right now they are sternly standing behind the most evil and corrupt Thai gov't of all time.

Some people really make me wanna puke.

What you are witnessing in this forum- at times anyway- is debate. And debate is a cornerstone of democracy- it is the antidote to brainwashing and indoctrination. (which is why those of a totalitarian bent will seek to stifle debate- by muzzling those who disagree with them).

I think you are very very mistaken when you say that anyone who disagrees with the aims of the PAD or the attempts from any quarter to use non-parliamentary means to eject the PPP is a PPP supporter. The fact that we don't approve of lynch mobs doesn't nescessarily mean we support the accused or his actions. We leave that to the courts- and for that principle (in our own countries) many of us WOULD and HAVE fought.

You brought up a point: Sondhi has backed off from the 70 30 split. Are you saying that this is not open to debate? That since you have said it do be so, all on this forum should accept it- and those who don't should just shut up? or are you willing to look at information that just might not support that statement.

I know it's frustrating to hear what you hold as unassailable truth, questioned. But if you really are committed to the future of your country, I hope you would welcome more debate and not less. Countries which don't permit debate- are probably not ones you would want Thailand to emulate.

[Plus]

I have been warning about PAD and especially Sondhi. I'm afraid time will tell I was right when he grabs power, if pushed, steered & allowed by one side of the Elite and chosen by the people of Thailand. I called Sondhi a dangerous man and I'm working on a special topic that will show who the man really is; but it will take time. May Buddha prevent he becomes into power.

The language maybe moderate and reasonable, but nonsense nonetheless.

Sondhi DOES NOT have poltiical aspirations, never had.

Sondhi personally said that elites turned their back on him.

Sondhi's past has been exposed back in 2005, and he came clear on his support for Thaksin, too. I see no reason to dig it up as if no one ever heard about it.

70-30 proposal was for society to consider, not for PAD to enforce, a point completely lost on some people here.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Plus

[h90]

Whether you like it or not, and whatever irregularities may have occurred involving PPP and others, TRT/PPP are massively popular in the NE and North. That, of course, is why the PAD (and I would say the Democrats too) do not favour resolution of the crisis through a referendum or one-person-one-vote general election.

Citizen33, I'm not gonna guess what hole you have been living in, but the Dems were the first to offer the dissolution of the House and a general election as a solution to the current crisis. The Dems did offer these during the debate in the House in the first week that PAD has occupied "Tamneab Rattaban." (I just don't know the English word for this right now....it's basically the Thai version of the White House.)

And younghusband, I'm just not gonna waste my time with you. All right?

A long time ago when I was upset about the postings of "younghusband" someone wrote me a nice private message, that it is simply pointless to discuss with him and that he has gave up answering younghusband. After a while I did the same....Now you do the same....

I just don't read postings from the nonsense group anymore, not even the first sentence, as well I stop reading when I get to "this democratic elected government".

Answering these guys is a waste of time. You can't win with arguments as they have an agenda which does not depend on facts or arguments.

[Tony Clifton]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

Chaos?

Been here for 5 years and every single act of violence related to politics was triggered by or directly involved TRT-PPP themselves or the pro-TRT/PPP zombies attacking others.

I also have always, still do and always will blame the unsolved Bangkok bombing on that camp, fits them too well.

And you are worried about PAD creating chaos?

Edited September 11, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[animatic]

I don't think PAD has ever suggested that they should be involved in government. What they are saying is that *this one sucks* :-)

No. That is not right at all. What PAD is saying is that they will create chaos in the country until their minority gets its way of destroying the democratically elected government. While PAD doesn't have the balls to front up a political party to contest democratic elections (simply because they have relatively little support on a national scale), they are certainly getting involved in government by their attempts to overthrow this elected government and install a virtual dictatorial style ruling party.

Chaos?

Been here for 5 years and every single act of violence related to politics was triggered by or directly involved TRT-PPP themselves or the pro-TRT/PPP zombies attacking others.

I also have always, still do and always will blame the unsolved Bangkok bombing on that camp, fits them too well.

A big ditto here too. (excluding Yala Songkla etc.)

They actively and violently favor suppression of all dissent, that is dictatorship.

We can discuss things, and some of what is said DOES cause nausia for many of us.

But it is STILL BEING SAID FREELY. Even if we WISH it would self-edit... or self distruct.

Thankfull PPP hasn't figured out how to take over in here.

Seems they would LIKE TOO.

Edited September 11, 2008 by animatic

[Capantha]

What about 'READY, STEADY, COOK!'? I'm sure old Ainsley could sort this out. RED PEPPERS in one kitchen and YELLOW BANANAS in the other!

Sorry if someone already beat me to it but I just couldn't be arsed trudging through the quagmire of SH1T threads that some people have posted.

Cap.

[LaoPo]

I'm really baffled by how supportive of these crooks of gov't people like LaoPo have been. People like him have always been the first ones to ridicule Thailand and the poeple for our lack of good governance, corruption and imcompetence. Yet right now they are sternly standing behind the most evil and corrupt Thai gov't of all time.

Some people really make me wanna puke.

:D Show me ONE message where I support or stand behind " the most evil and corrupt Thai Government of all time'', and, if you're busy writing your answer, please be my guest and INCLUDE the previous government as well.

If you post that support or prove that I stand behind the government, you say I give or gave, I pay you USD 1,000 OK ? That's 35,000 Baht

BUT, if you can NOT, will yu pay me the same ?

YOU, sir, make ME puke with INCORRECT messages like that and I expect an apology because you're dead wrong !

Note: in 99,99% of the cases I keep calm but with messages of your kind I lose my temper.

Mea Culpa to other members.

LaoPo