Liver Condition - I Would Like To Hear From Others

[philo]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

[Samuian]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

three weeks complete abstinence the liver wil 'regenerate', maybe after that, additional cure with milk thistle: "Among six studies of milk thistle and chronic alcoholic liver disease, four reported significant improvement in at least one measurement of liver function (i.e., aminotransferases, albumin, and/or malondialdehyde) or histologic findings with milk thistle compared with placebo, but also reported no difference between groups for other outcome measures." Source: from:

"Ten large Bottles of Leo" will NOT get you healthy, you liver will CERTAINLY deteriorate and a transplant is rather costly, compared to stop for a while or cut down on the input..

[Bangyai]

Seems you have a difficult choice here. Either give up drinking 10 Leo's a day or you will at sometime have to give up your life. Tough choice, make sure you make the right decision as if you don't you might not get a second crack at it.

[Old Croc]

Have a blood test to check your Iron levels in case you have haemachromitosis.

[Samuian]

well as 2 cysts have developed already, once it's beyond repair....I had a good friend he died from liver cancer the last 18 month weren't exactly "a walk in the park"!

it starts with hick ups, complete loss of appetite, if then eating, vomiting will occur uncontrollable, very, very sensitive towards acids, sourness, fatty, fried stuff, carbonated drinks....till one has his daily shots with mango, tomato juice or even milk, and finally bedridden, powerless, the liver will turn into a cancerous tumor and show up at the patients right belly side as a purplish, blueish carcinoma like swelling which will get slowly larger.... while the patient is dying!

The liver is, when still healthy enough and not yet much deteriorated, an organ which may almost completely regenerate itself - if taken care of!

[Wrong Turn]

no food ...[/b]

Does drinking alcohol with food in your stomach help protect your liver?

[Samuian]

no food ...[/b]

Does drinking alcohol with food in your stomach help protect your liver?

no certainly not, it's only diluting/surpressing the passing of alcohol straight into ones bloodstream and so inderctly "protecting' the liver... but it's the alcohol AMOUNT which does the damage - one two drinks, beer wine are certainly okay... the amount makes the poison!

[Martian]

I had a friend diagnosed with fatty liver a year or so back but a cat scan revealed no "masses" or any sign of scirossis so I have to say his prognosis is pretty good. His doctor basically told him to start taking vitamin C and E, eat less fatty foods and lose weight. He did all those and his liver enzymes went from almost triple the high normal range limit to right in the middle of the normal range. He also takes 1000 MG of milk thistle every day to promote liver health.

Anyway, because of his past diagnosis, even with normal liver enzyme tests now, no health insurance company will write coverage for him. They want proof that the condition doesn't exist anymore and the only way to do that is to have another cat scan ($5,000 in the USA) and hope it does show the condition resolved.

Pitiful that insurance companies will use diagnostic tests to disqualify you if they are abnormal but not to qualify you once they return to normal. Double standard I would say.

My friend is not a heavy drinker whatsoever and probably not even classified as a social drinker so he will most likely be fine by continuing the vitamin/hebal regimen and dietary recommendations.

Regards,

Martian

[dumball]

Seems you have a difficult choice here. Either give up drinking 10 Leo's a day or you will at sometime have to give up your life. Tough choice, make sure you make the right decision as if you don't you might not get a second crack at it.

I do not think there is such a difficult choice , do you love you or the beer the most?

To continue drinking 10 Leos a day could mean your demise , that is paramount to commiting suicide with all the pain and discomfort that goes with it . Do yourself and everybody else around you , jump off the balcony , that is less painfull in the long (or short) run .

[philo]

Thanks for all answers. I am trying to cut down to 3-6 bottles a day. I also attends AAmeetings - but I do not know if it is for me. I wnt back to the hospital to try to find out the danger level - and the two doctors I spoke to told me I am not yet in an acute situation. Will give it a 3 months period of lower intake, and take a new test. Then i will know ...

Thanks.

[ThaiPauly]

IF YOU HAVE CIRRHOSIS "DO NOT GIVE UP DRINKING" you may think this is crazy but the Liver will dry up quickly and produce mould which will in turn make the cirrhotic liver cancerous, Giving you 3-12 months to live. Most Doctors would not offer this advice purely because thay hate Cirrhosis/Liver cancer because they know its self induced in this case. You may get another 5 years drinking, but much less if you stop. Likely syptoms will be (ascites) fluid retention abdonimal and then the legs. Reduce the Protein in your diet, this will reduce the chances of early Encylphalapthy, which is a condition where the Liver not doing its normal function sends pure imonia to the brain making you forgetful and in its worst state coma.

Cysts on the liver of an alcohlic means" Cirrhosis", and despite what the Doctors tell you Cirrhosis does not cure itself. Only a liver that is Slightly affected by over consumption of alcohol can regenirate itself. I Hope you are well but sometimes the most unlikely advice can be the best.

Good Luck and God Bless...!

WOW...thats like passing a death sentance

I have never heard this one before.

Has anyone else got a comment to add to this post?

What does Sheryl think of this statement?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I had a complete physical at Bumrungrad a couple of weeks ago. After the ultra sound the Dr. told me I had a fatty liver. He ask me if I drank much and I told him a six pack a year. I think he misunderstood me as he told me to lose weight 10-15K and cut back on my drinking. Guess I will have to make the six pack last 2 years.

So you can have a fatty liver from being overweight. Trying to go from 95k to 80k and not doing very well at it. I found it much easier to quit smoking than to lose weight. But that was 25years ago.

[garro]

IF YOU HAVE CIRRHOSIS "DO NOT GIVE UP DRINKING" you may think this is crazy but the Liver will dry up quickly and produce mould which will in turn make the cirrhotic liver cancerous, Giving you 3-12 months to live. Most Doctors would not offer this advice purely because thay hate Cirrhosis/Liver cancer because they know its self induced in this case. You may get another 5 years drinking, but much less if you stop. Likely syptoms will be (ascites) fluid retention abdonimal and then the legs. Reduce the Protein in your diet, this will reduce the chances of early Encylphalapthy, which is a condition where the Liver not doing its normal function sends pure imonia to the brain making you forgetful and in its worst state coma.

Cysts on the liver of an alcohlic means" Cirrhosis", and despite what the Doctors tell you Cirrhosis does not cure itself. Only a liver that is Slightly affected by over consumption of alcohol can regenirate itself. I Hope you are well but sometimes the most unlikely advice can be the best.

Good Luck and God Bless...!

I worked as a nurse on a gastro ward and have cared with many patients in end-stage liver disease. More importantly I am a recovered drunk who almost destroyed his own liver. The above post makes no sense to me - although it does contain some correct facts.

My understanding of cirrhosis is the following. Cirrhosis is caused by repeated inflammation of the liver which eventually damages the liver to such an extent that it cannot repair itself again. These bouts of inflammation are caused through periods of excessive drinking combined with malnutrition and will continue to cause problems so long as the person continues to abuse alcohol. At the end-stage of drinking these bouts of inflammation will have far more significant complications such as; ascetis and bleeding varicies which are caused through portal hypertension through a damaged liver. During these episodes the liver may be unable to clean the blood stream and the build-up of ammonia will lead to hepatatic encephalopathy (which causes confusion and loss of conciousness).

During my time working in the area I never saw anybody admitted to hospital because they gave up alcohol; each episode was brought on by a bout of drinking while suffering from cirrhosis. Cirrhosis is not curable, but I am convinced that these people would have lived longer if it were not for their continued drinking.

The liver is an amazing organ. I was convinced that my own was destroyed and this was confirmed by medical investigations. I am now two and a half years sober and as well as living a wonderful my liver is no longer a problem. I had decided that even if my liver was damaged beyond repair that I would remain sober, because I wouldn't wish the life of a drunk on a dog. I also feel strongly that death would come much quicker as a practicing drunk; which might have been a mercy.

I find Jason's post to be disturbing and unhelpful, and simply not true.

I wish the OP all the best and hope he makes the correct choices in this matter.

[philo]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

Thanks again.

I do not have cirrhoses, but fatty liver and alcoholic hepatitis. The 'liver infection' turned out to be a kidney infection - my mistake.

The things I could check in Udon was:

SGOT/AST: 91 on Sept 27, 54 on Oct 21 (normal range around 0-40)

SGPT/ALT: 81 on Sept 27, 29 on Oct 21 (normal range about 0-40)

Alkaline Phosphatase: 79 on Sept 27, 96 on Oct 21 (normal range about 40-100).

One poster asked what has eating to do with this - It gives nutrition... Alcohol is nothing but carbohydratic poison.

I am also on water, vitamins, minerals, milk thistle, folic acid and AA-meetings. Only God knows what will happen ...

PS Most liver cysts are benign, and they are present even before we are born. If you cannot find links yourself, challenge me and I will post mine here.

May you all be healthy.

ph

PS I have cut down to 3 to 8 bottles a day - too much - but I won't take the pain before the next ultrasound.

[philo]

This thread could become useful: After cutting down on beer, eating food, drinking water and taking vitamins etc. it is now like this:

Total Protein 8.0 (6-8)

Albumin 5.2 (3-5)

Globulin 2.8 (2-3)

SGOT 40 (0-40)

SGPT 28 (0-42)

Alk-Phos. 157 (98-279)

Direct Bilirubin 0.2 (0-0.5)

Total Bilirubin 0.4 (0-1.5)

Gamma-GT 163 (8-78)

My two problems now is that the Alkaline Phosphatase and Gamma-GT are still high. I have learned on the internet that they (in civilized countries i.e.) use the Gamma-GT as a marker for giving you back your drivers license that you lost for drunk-driving.

Anyway-I am still alive-and wait for the AFP/CA19-9 tumor marker values (3 days - sent from Udon to BKK). All courtesy of the best liver check place I have found in Udon - Phairoj Hospital, on the right side of the crossing of the road to Nong Khai and the ring road - go left: Tesco - look to the right: Phairoj Hospital.

[philo]

well as 2 cysts have developed already, once it's beyond repair....I had a good friend he died from liver cancer the last 18 month weren't exactly "a walk in the park"!

it starts with hick ups, complete loss of appetite, if then eating, vomiting will occur uncontrollable, very, very sensitive towards acids, sourness, fatty, fried stuff, carbonated drinks....till one has his daily shots with mango, tomato juice or even milk, and finally bedridden, powerless, the liver will turn into a cancerous tumor and show up at the patients right belly side as a purplish, blueish carcinoma like swelling which will get slowly larger.... while the patient is dying!

The liver is, when still healthy enough and not yet much deteriorated, an organ which may almost completely regenerate itself - if taken care of!

The start of this post is merely an opinion ...

There are 10's or 100's of sites like this:

'Many cysts develop for unknown reasons, and some are present at the time of birth. Some may be the result of abnormalities that occurred during fetal development."

http://www.ecureme.com/emyhealth/data/Liver_Cyst.asp

(I have been warned about posting direct links - but cannot see why possibly life saving information is a cyber crime).

Regards

ph

[philo]

no food ...[/b]

Does drinking alcohol with food in your stomach help protect your liver?

Well - If you want to understand my point you should YAHOOGLE the words: ALCOHOLISM, MALNUTRITION, VITAMIN DEFIENCY.

Thanks.

[philo]

IF YOU HAVE CIRRHOSIS "DO NOT GIVE UP DRINKING" you may think this is crazy but the Liver will dry up quickly and produce mould which will in turn make the cirrhotic liver cancerous, Giving you 3-12 months to live. Most Doctors would not offer this advice purely because thay hate Cirrhosis/Liver cancer because they know its self induced in this case. You may get another 5 years drinking, but much less if you stop. Likely syptoms will be (ascites) fluid retention abdonimal and then the legs. Reduce the Protein in your diet, this will reduce the chances of early Encylphalapthy, which is a condition where the Liver not doing its normal function sends pure imonia to the brain making you forgetful and in its worst state coma.

Cysts on the liver of an alcohlic means" Cirrhosis", and despite what the Doctors tell you Cirrhosis does not cure itself. Only a liver that is Slightly affected by over consumption of alcohol can regenirate itself. I Hope you are well but sometimes the most unlikely advice can be the best.

Good Luck and God Bless...!

This post is beyond belief: Any sane person should know that you cannot drink yourself to a long(er) life.

Ignored ...

[Sheryl]

This post is beyond belief: Any sane person should know that you cannot drink yourself to a long(er) life.

Ignored ...

And (belatedly, my apologies) deleted.

Congrats Philo on staying off the booze, the drop to normal in liver enzymes is a good sign that your liver is staerting to heal.

[Sisaketmike]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

Stopping drinking might probably help? You should chose: your life, or Leo. The following stadium after a fatty liver is the so called cirrhosis, only about 6 month to go. A liver infection could be a Hepatitis a,B, C, D, or......so if your urine looks like Leo beer, stop that shit and wake up. Or sleep forever. Cheers.

[Americanmade]

Drink water water water

cranberry juice

eat the seeds of canolope

stop drinking may help also.

[think_too_mut]

The things I could check in Udon was:

SGOT/AST: 91 on Sept 27, 54 on Oct 21 (normal range around 0-40)

SGPT/ALT: 81 on Sept 27, 29 on Oct 21 (normal range about 0-40)

Alkaline Phosphatase: 79 on Sept 27, 96 on Oct 21 (normal range about 40-100).

One poster asked what has eating to do with this - It gives nutrition... Alcohol is nothing but carbohydratic poison.

I am also on water, vitamins, minerals, milk thistle, folic acid and AA-meetings. Only God knows what will happen ...

PS Most liver cysts are benign, and they are present even before we are born. If you cannot find links yourself, challenge me and I will post mine here.

May you all be healthy.

ph

PS I have cut down to 3 to 8 bottles a day - too much - but I won't take the pain before the next ultrasound.

Just noticed this thread.

On January 7th 2008, after regular full checkup at Bumrungrad, I was told that my liver is fatty and Gamma GT = 140 (normal is 8-78). Other parameters SGO/AST and SGPT/ALT were just over the boundaries.

The doctor told me to stop drinking immediatelly or risk alcoholic hepaptitis or cyrosis.

It's not that I was drinking too hard (3-4 beers a day, only evenings after after work).

Soon after, I read somewhere that taking aspirins after drinking or day after may badly damage your liver.

It dawned on me that Alka Seltzer I had been taking almost every night (to make me sleep well and even sweat and feel better in the morning) is 50% aspirin.

That was it!

Alka Seltzer was eating me secretly while I thought it was doing me good.

6 months later, I took the same test, no change in drinking, just no Alka Seltzer.

The result was: Gamma GT = 73. Within normal.

[Livinginexile]

I have recently stoped drinking. One of the health problems I had was a very sore and extended liver, even my eyes were going a shade of yellow.

Now I have stoped drinking my liver feels a lot better and my eyes are clearing a little.

I am really shit scared to get my liver checked out, I am sure I have done some serious damage.

I think I will wait a little longer before I go for some checkups.

[philo]

I have followed your thread. Strong man.

Get your ass to a pharmacy and buy:

Silymarin (Samarin)

Essentiale

Zink

Vitamin B1

Folic acid

Lechitin

Ask how much you should eat evereyday, and then wait a few months (3?) and get a LFT and an ultrasound.

But damage done is damage done...

Go yahoogle for 'liver alcohol hepatitis cirrhosis vitamin defiency' or whatever combination you choose. You'll get thousands of hits. Then you can make your own (vitamin)cocktail.

I am still having a beer, but hope I will follow your footsteps soon.

As I said - well done ...

[unforgiven]

Thanks for all answers. I am trying to cut down to 3-6 bottles a day. I also attends AAmeetings - but I do not know if it is for me. I wnt back to the hospital to try to find out the danger level - and the two doctors I spoke to told me I am not yet in an acute situation. Will give it a 3 months period of lower intake, and take a new test. Then i will know ...

Thanks.

You know the type of beer you drink does have some effect. Thai beers have a lot of toxic chemicals in them that german beers do not. Granted alchol is alchol but these other chemicals can impact the liver greatly. Also if you exercise and sauna you will greatly help the liver as sweating liberates toxins,especially amonia

[CqK]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

three weeks complete abstinence the liver wil 'regenerate', maybe after that, additional cure with milk thistle: "Among six studies of milk thistle and chronic alcoholic liver disease, four reported significant improvement in at least one measurement of liver function (i.e., aminotransferases, albumin, and/or malondialdehyde) or histologic findings with milk thistle compared with placebo, but also reported no difference between groups for other outcome measures."

...

I've a former co-worker waiting on a liver transplant who's doctor asked him if he had a Will when he finally went to the doctor. My friend laughed and the doctor didn't. That's when my friend knew the doctor wasn't being amusing. He was given only days to live. While discussing prognosis with other co-workers, someone suggested Milk Thistle. My friend quit drinking immediately and has taken Milk Thistle ever since hearing about it . . . he had nothing to lose . . . and his doctor cannot believe he's still alive. That was four or five years ago. He's a walking testament for Milk Thistle.

[philo]

Thanks to you all.

I am eating milk thistle (Silymarin/Samarin - 3 tablets of 70 mg) everyday, and my liver is ok so so. After 30+ years of drinking, the last year it is my brain that has a problem (I also eat 300 mg of vitamin B1 every day).

Rationality tells me that I have to stop drinking, but the devil sitting on my shoulder says: Take another bottle, and you will be fine.

The best of luck to your friend.

[sagaris]

Thanks to you all.

I am eating milk thistle (Silymarin/Samarin - 3 tablets of 70 mg) everyday, and my liver is ok so so. After 30+ years of drinking, the last year it is my brain that has a problem (I also eat 300 mg of vitamin B1 every day).

Rationality tells me that I have to stop drinking, but the devil sitting on my shoulder says: Take another bottle, and you will be fine.

The best of luck to your friend.

Philo try berrocca and spirulina as well. But put down the beer.... please

[unforgiven]

Thanks to you all.

I am eating milk thistle (Silymarin/Samarin - 3 tablets of 70 mg) everyday, and my liver is ok so so. After 30+ years of drinking, the last year it is my brain that has a problem (I also eat 300 mg of vitamin B1 every day).

Rationality tells me that I have to stop drinking, but the devil sitting on my shoulder says: Take another bottle, and you will be fine.

The best of luck to your friend.

Ya it's the brain that gets it in the end. I take B12 complex 50 mg/ day and pantoetenic acid 1000 mg timed release/ day with my milkle thistle and Carsil(russian herbs )

[unforgiven]

At a health check up I was told that I had fatty liver, high levels of liver enzymes and alcoholic hepatitis (also two small cysts 0.7 and 1.0 cm - but this is supposed to be normal). As a bonus - I have a liver infection that makes me shiver and cold sweat at night.

After the ultrasound they said the changes to my liver is not permanent - stopping drinking will probably help the liver to restore itself.

Anyone else done this/been there/or even got to the point of cirrhosis? - and if I don't stop - how many years do you give me on 10 big Leo a day and almost no food ...

You poor bugger, you probably feel anxious and stunned all the time as well as depressed. What I do to kick is When I wake up on day 1 I take .5 mg of xanox (sounds like zanox) and have a big breakfast and go back to bed. when I wake I take another .5 and have a big lunch and the same for dinner and whenever I feel anxious I take another .5. I do very little just watch tv etc. I stay away from bars and drinkers. By the 4 th day I stop the xanox except at night or if I feel anxious.I also go to the gym for a light workout and swim. I try to walk a lot and get to bed early. I like to get up around 7 am that way I'm tired at 9 0r 10 pm and get to bed. Stay away from bars and your drinking friends for a month eat 3 good meals a day and workout a little or walk or swim and you'll be amazed at how much better you feel bodily and your depression will leave.............good luck