Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[cmsally]

Does anyone else get that sinking feeling that in the future when there is reporting about Thailand, it will be ...

" and this is xxx reporting on the situation in BKK from nearby here in Rangoon."

:D

People in control really do need to consider the previous points mentioned about a failing economy because it surely will happen and it will affect those living on the edge considerably.

This model may work for an agrarian, illiterate society but somehow I doubt all will fit back into the feudal bottle.

You will still have the Catch 22 situation where one side will claim it as a victory and then you will be back to square one.

Slightly off the point but relevant is that this year in Chiang Mai as its cold (well by Thai standards) you see the usual influx of mostly BKK tourists. This year is the first year that I have heard local people say BKK people having created such a political mess should stay at home and live in it. Somehow I think a grab for power by the BKK elite will not go down well in some regions of Thailand.

You get similar comments form different bits of the country. Sometimes they blame Bnagkok sometimes they blame Thaksin, it depends where you are. The regional divide is potentially a far bigger problem than the class one and one that wont go away. If Thaksin loses bits of the country wont be happy if he wins bits of ther country wont be happy. A compromise is the best hope but ......

The regional division is far overestimated. North East may love Thaksin, but the not paid demonstrations of the Thaksin supporters were always just 50-100 people. So not too much love. And how many others they loved before (including Chavalit)?? When the next corrupt one comes in 2 years and hand out loans and cash they will love him again.

If you go into farming areas of the North of Thailand (Isaan I dont know as well) you will find things like the word Abhisit almost spat when spoken and people talk fondly of Thaksin. In Chonburi where I live most of the time you will find Thaksin is a dirty word and you can openly ridicule the guy in public. A similar thing in the Northern rural areas would not be advisable. A lot of the haterd has been whipped up by the village headmen and spinmeisters and a lot is based on misinformation, disinformation and lies but the fact is it still exisits and has to be dealt with. Whoever comes out on top in the pwoer struggle is going to have a lot of problems with this which is why either a negotiated settlement or a solution that is seen to come form the middle is the better way out than seeing a win for either side at least in the short term

yes in the short term there is no solution, and Abhisit won't be loved there. but the next one will give the headmen they money and it will work.....

The new politics from PAD won't work, at least not in the short term. You can't turn the society upside down in a short time. But other people will come.....

So are you saying that Democrats or New Politics will be paying them in the future - I don't understand.

To a certain extent if this happens it may be the case but largely not.

In some places it goes back to the issue of the Emerald Buddha

and can be a very deep seated and emotive issue, not that easily solved with money.

New politic or Democrats/ honest politic might be in power for some time, but than the next one will come hand out money and get loved.

When you look back in history it was always the same. If Thaksin can't do anything anymore and some honest government is in charge, at the same time the next rat will be already touring thru the Nord-East and handing out money. Thaksin is forgotten and the next Thaksin-Style rat will be loved.

New Politics is a tool to stop that.....But I doubt that you can simply with a new constitution change the people from greed to good.

There are some things that need explaining in your argument:

1. You assume that the Dem. are totally honest and don't give handouts - why do you assume that is the case?

2. New Politics is not a party it is a fundamental change to the governing structure. Although no one is quite sure of the details as they have never been detailed.

3. How precisely would New Politics stop vote buying. As I see it the only thing it would do is to minimise the number of MPs serving by direct election. If they can keep those in the minority, they can use the "selected" ones to veto them.

Thus in affect you have removed any direct participation of the electorate. The issue of vote buying becomes irrelevant because you have removed electoral participation.

4. Following on from clause 3. we would assume that people would see that their vote becomes superfluous as it stands for nothing so sure take the money, but for how long will the politicians hand it out if they have no benefits. My guess is that power would become concentrated in the very top strata that can position themselves as well as favoured big business.

Local politicians will become the lackeys of big business and power holders, all centrally controlled.

My suggestion is that if one sees Thailand as polarised now in terms of wealth and status you have seen nothing yet, it will be decidedly worse under any New Political regime.

PS We are still waiting for date and location of non paid anti PAD protest with 50-100 participants.

[tig28]

ANIMATIC

..... the main fight is between

Thaksin's nouveau riche rapacious bunch, and the older patrician financial families,

and assorted fiefdoms like army and police with their divisions of the spoils,.......

The little people are just the greek chorus of playing pieces.

Echoing what they are shown and commenting from their perspective.

I sure don't wish to distort ANIMATICS views ----- but this quote from him seems to me to sum up the lousy situation pretty accurately ---- and briefly !

My position (in this debate) is often uncomfortable --- as my intense dislike for PAD philosophies is often equated with some degree of support for Thaksin. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To be fair ...... one aspect of the PAD platform is guaranteed to be successful:

By removing the task of selecting the government from the electorate ---- no monies shall be paid to any ordinary voter by anyone.

[stumonster]

You seem to despise the success of Singapore and it's leaders but you can't deny the fact that Singapore is a rather successful state with a high GDP per capita of some $ 50.000, all created within some 43 years, versus a mere GDP per capita of $ 8.000 for Thailand. It will be a long way before Thailand can even touch that kind of GDP per capita.

LaoPo

Maybe it's interesting to go back in time a little and have a look where countries like South Korea and Japan are now...both countries involved (and started) in different wars..we all know that.

Thailand, Korea and Japan (and Singapore much later) were all in a bad economical shape after WW II and Korea after 1953.

GDP per capita in 2007:

Thailand: $ 8,000

S Korea: $ 25.000

Japan: $ 33.000

Singapore: $ 50.000

Care to explain ?

Not much to explain...is there ?

LaoPo

do your figures for singapore include the Indian , Malay , Indonesian , mainland Chinese and Filipino peoples living and working in singapore ?

is the number derived from the paper profits of lkw's daughter in laws company ?

singapore is not a country to emulate in my opinion

[sriracha john]

House Speaker Considers Closure of Current House Session

The House Speaker has announced that if the situation gets out of hand, he may decides to call for an end of the current Parliamentary session.

The PAD is calling today the final countdown to the final chapter of its months-long rally. It has managed to attract a rapidly growing number of PAD supporters to Government House.

They are expected to march to Parliament today to prevent a joint Parliamentary session from taking place tomorrow. Despite House Speaker Chai Chidchob's insistence that the agenda of the House session tomorrow will not include the charter rewrite, the PAD leaders are convinced the issue will most definitely be discussed during tomorrow's session.

Meanwhile PM Somchai Wongsawat says the government must do its best to tolerate the PAD rally.

- TOC /2008-11-23

[sriracha john]

and other side...

Pro-government Group Attends Gathering at Suan Kaew Temple

The pro-government red t-shirt protesters are meeting at Suan Kaew Temple for the mobile edition of Truth Today show. Over a thousand police officers have been dispatched to monitor the pro-government gathering.

Initially former PM Samak Sundaravej, who is currently being treated for liver cancer in the U.S., was reportedly approached to give a telephone interview during the mobile Truth Today show. However there's been no official confirmation that the ailing former premier will make a telephone interview appearance during today's show.

- TOC / 2008-11-23

[sriracha john]

More protesters gather at Government House

More supporters of the PAD started assembling at Government House early Sunday. The PAD leaders announced the mass demonstration will start at 2pm before their supporters will march to the Parliament the next day in an attempt to disrupt the joint meeting to between MPs and Senators. The anti-government group declared the protest on Monday would be its final movement aimed at toppling the ‘proxy government’ of ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra. On Sunday morning, PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang together with volunteer guards inspected areas around Government House prior to the mass demonstration. He ordered the volunteer guards to impose tight security around

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132217

=============================================================================

Political upheaval feared today

The fate of the country hangs in the balance today in the face of another political upheaval that could lead to a bloodbath after the People's Alliance for Democracy vowed to launch an all-out effort to bring down the government of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and prevent charter amendment by laying siege to Parliament today in its "biggest and final" rally yet.

The PAD announced its plan to move its protest from Government House to Parliament at a press conference yesterday after a three-hour meeting of its five core leaders at Ban Phra Arthit.

Meanwhile, Senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana said Parliament had put the Constitution amendment draft presented by Weng Tochirakarn, a leader of the pro-government UDD, at the top of its agenda to be discussed from tomorrow despite House Speaker Chai Chidchob insisting last week that this wouldn't be so.

He said the draft included clauses reducing the power of Privy Councillors, removing some independent agencies, whitewashing parties facing dissolution and giving amnesty to 111 former Thai Rak Thai Party executives.

PAD leader Maj-General Chamlong Srimuang yesterday showed members of the press that Constitution amendment had been marked urgent on Parliament's agenda for today.

Pipop Thongchai said the PAD intended to stop Parliament working in support of the Somchai government. He said both Parliament and the government had lost any mandate to run the country because they refused to take responsibility for the bloody crackdown on anti-government protesters on October 7.

He accused the government of continuing to use violence through a series of deadly bomb attacks to deter people from joining the PAD protest. "If the people are afraid, the government will be able to prevent peaceful protests in the long run, and we will not be able to protect our country and the monarchy,'' he said.

Sondhi Limthongkul said the latest bomb attack early yesterday that killed one person showed that the government was using undisciplined military officers to do its dirty work. "This is pressuring a peaceful gathering to use weapons in self-defence. Thai society will see a bloodbath. It is sad that military officers and police have taken part in this,'' he said.

The five leaders refused to reveal how they planned to break into the Parliament compound. Chamlong insisted that the PAD must move on Parliament to ensure there was no charter amendment even after reporters told him that House Speaker Chai Chidchob had guaranteed that charter amendment would not be on the House agenda.

- The Nation / 2008-11-23

Edited November 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Medical teams, hospitals stand by to assist wounded protesters

BANGKOK, Nov 22 (TNA) -- More than 30 medical teams and 11 government hospitals in the Thai capital are on standby to provide emergency treatment to any wounded protesters of the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) as the group will rally at Parliament on Sunday and Monday to express opposition to any consideration of constitutional amendments by the House.

Public Health Minister Police Captain Chalerm Yoobamrung said he had ordered permanent secretary of Public Health Dr. Praj Boonyawongvirot to prepare some 30 emergency medical teams, comprising over 100 personnel, to be stationed at the rally site from early Saturday.

Also, 11 government hospitals in Bangkok must be well prepared, having physicians, medical staff and patient beds available round-the-clock, Mr. Chalerm said.

The urgent order was made out of concern that violence might occur -- like the October 7 incidents in which two persons were killed and nearly 500 others wounded when police fired teargas into the PAD protesters at Parliament.

Dr. Praj, meanwhile, said he had instructed the officials of two emergency relief centres to coordinate with the assigned hospitals to delegate work if violence breaks out.

Initially, officials of the emergency relief centres will work from Saturday morning through Monday.

[sriracha john]

meanwhile... on the other side of Earth...

U.S. President George W. Bush speaks with Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat before the start of the first meeting of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Lima, November 22, 2008.

REUTERS

[Los78]

I think Somchai is attending important conferences overseas for the good of the country. Why should he be here? because the PAD mob are on the street today with their gogogaga hand toys. PAD are leading a peaceful protest arent they? So the government is doing their job as they were elected to do.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Los78

[sriracha john]

I think Somchai is attending important conferences overseas for the good of the country. Why should he here? because the PAD mob are on the street today with their gogogaga hand toys. PAD are leading a peaceful protest arent they?

The government isn't going to change the constitution, are they?

Meanwhile, Senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana said Parliament had put the Constitution amendment draft presented by Weng Tochirakarn, a leader of the pro-government UDD, at the top of its agenda to be discussed from tomorrow despite House Speaker Chai Chidchob insisting last week that this wouldn't be so.

He said the draft included clauses reducing the power of Privy Councillors, removing some independent agencies, whitewashing parties facing dissolution and giving amnesty to 111 former Thai Rak Thai Party executives.

....btw, sure Somchai can be in the Western Hemisphere during all this trying to make friends with his new-found and fellow lame-duck leaders.

Think of it as a farewell opportunity in his last month of office. Perhaps they can form a support group.

Edited November 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[Mobi]

....btw, sure Somchai can be in the Western Hemisphere during all this trying to make friends with his new-found and fellow lame-duck leaders.

Think of it as a farewell opportunity in his last month of office. Perhaps they can form a support group.

Breaking news from The Nation:

PM appoints Army Chief Gen Anupong to monitor situation

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat appointed Army Commander in Chief Gen Anupong Paojinda on Sunday to monitor the situation as protesters vowed to march to the Parliament on Monday.

Somchai was visiting Peru to attend Apec summit.

Thai premier insisted that Anupong's panel has no duty to suppress on the protesters.

"Gen Anupong's committee will be in charge of monitoring the situation and give suggestions to authorities concerned on how to deal with the protesters," Somchai said.

[animatic]

meanwhile... on the other side of Earth...

U.S. President George W. Bush speaks with Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat before the start of the first meeting of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Lima, November 22, 2008.

REUTERS

Geez,

Bush looks like he is either going to crack up laughing

or puke....

You KNOW Bush got a FULL briefing on the whole Thailand scene,

before he sat next to him.

And while a world away, KuhnSomchai of course tries to pass the buck

to the only clear thinking man on the political scene Gen Anupong Paojinda.

Edited November 23, 2008 by animatic

[jackspratt]

meanwhile... on the other side of Earth...

U.S. President George W. Bush speaks with Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat before the start of the first meeting of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Lima, November 22, 2008.

REUTERS

Geez,

Bush looks like he is either going to crack up laughing

or puke....

In this company Somchai looks like a highly intelligent and well respected statesman.

Let's just hope he doesn't listen to the Shrub eg

"I have a fella named Rumsfeldt who I can loan to ya' if ya' need help puttin' down them pesky PAD types."

or

"We have some room for them in Gitmo since that darned Federal Court ordered us to release those 5 fellas who we been holdin' for 7 years with a shred of evidence"

or

"Those fellas who used to run Merrill Lynch ain't too busy at the moment - would you like me to ask them to help out with your financial problems in .....err....err.....where you from again?

[sriracha john]

Government Spokesman and UDD leading member Nattawut Saikua said on Tuesday that he and Payom Kalayano, the abbot of Suan Kaew Temple, had discussed the preparation for holding a mobile "Truth Today" political talk show. Nattawut said the event is expected to be held on November 23.

Another UDD member and PPP MP Jatuporn Promphan, as one of the hosts of the Truth Today programme, said ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra can make phone-in speeches to his supporters on every show.

for some reason, some people think a Buddhist temple is an inappropriate and unsuitable location for a mass political rally... with speeches by convicted criminal fugitives...

Senior monks oppose temple hosting of political talk show

Senior monks are opposed to the planned staging of the controversial political talk show Kwam Jing Wan Nee (Truth Today) at Wat Suan Kaew in Nonthaburi. The show would feature a phone-in address by fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra. Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua, one of the co-hosts, said the temple abbot, Phra Phayom Galayano, had given permission for the talk show, which was planned for Nov 23. But a member of the Supreme Sangha Council, Phra Phrom Vajirayarn, disagreed with the temple being used for political purposes. "Behind the Truth Today programme is the pursuit of power and interests tainted with political greed," he said. "The Truth Today programme should be kept away from temples and monks should realise what is considered appropriate limits."

Phra Thep Visutthikavee, secretary to a monastic panel working on behalf of the Supreme Patriarch, was also concerned that a gathering at the temple would be seen as a political rally.

Jatuporn confirmed that Thaksin would phone-in to every show. On Monday, Thaksin said he would continue to address his supporters by phone at future rallies and would make longer speeches and start naming his political enemies.

Pending rioting gang leader charges Natthawut's and Jatuporn's co-defendant Veera is also involved deeply in this political rally at a temple shenanigans... as they all continue to push this...

Veera Musikhapong, left, led UDD members to Wat Suan Kaew in Bang Kruay district in Nonthaburi province to meet abbot Phra Payom Kalayano, right. The temple will host the ‘Kwam Jing Wan Nee’ (The Truth Today) talk show and pro-government rally on Nov 23.

Bangkok Post / 2008-11-13

This is going on today.... with Thaksin's phone-in cancelled.

[sriracha john]

Police Instructed to Use American-Made Teargas and No Batons

Police have promised they will exercise utmost restraint when dealing with the PAD protesters. They have also revealed that only anti-riot shields will be used to control the protesters, and if teargas is needed, only the American-made grenades will be employed.

Checkpoints have been set up to ensure that no third party can incite violence at the PAD rally site.

- TOC / 2008-11-23

[Samuian]

[..........edited.......

He said the draft included clauses reducing the power of Privy Councillors, removing some independent agencies, whitewashing parties facing dissolution and giving amnesty to 111 former Thai Rak Thai Party executives.

................edited......

- The Nation / 2008-11-23

It's what it is all about, why not to call for a one man, one show right away, what all these charades are about?

Let's abolish ANY constitution, the wise Takky and his global support team will manage it all, left handed, trust 'em!

It will be a booming economy, a blooming country and citizens won't stop smiling for the next millennium, everyone will get a free ride, for EVER, promised, just pardon him, his entourage and let him return!

You will see....

[animatic]

Police Instructed to Use American-Made Teargas and No Batons

Police have promised they will exercise utmost restraint when dealing with the PAD protesters. They have also revealed that only anti-riot shields will be used to control the protesters, and if teargas is needed, only the American-made grenades will be employed.

Checkpoints have been set up to ensure that no third party can incite violence at the PAD rally site.

- TOC / 2008-11-23

Of course in America they use teargas CANISTERS, they just shoot out smoke for a spell.

They don't explode at all. if one falls on your head you might get a bruise...

Grenades do of course explode and some give off smoke also.

Wonder what they think they are using???

Why does one suspect that,

THIRD PARTIES are MANNING the checkpoints in just a few places....

Edited November 23, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Meeting to be postponed if PAD besieges Parliament

National security agencies Sunday recommended the Parliament President to postpone a meeting scheduled Monday if the People's Alliance for Democracy surrounds Parliament.

The suggestion was made during a meeting to top officials of key agencies in charge of security affairs, PM's Office Minister Sukhumpong Ngonekham said.

The PAD threatens to besiege Parliament Monday fearing the government would slam a charter amendment through Parliament. The meeting is scheduled for Parliament to endorse the government's plan to sign contracts with ASEAN countries during the ASEAN summit in Chiang Mai next month.

Sukhumpong said PAD's supporters surround Parliament, MPs and senators would return home.

House of Representatives secretary-general Pithoon Phumhiran if a besiege occurs, the meeting would be indefinitely postponed but the meeting venue would not be changed.

- The Nation / 2008-11-23

[sriracha john]

The government backs down... or at least it's saying it's backing down.

[Samuian]

Of course in America they use teargas CANISTERS, they just shoot out smoke for a spell.

They don't explode at all. if one falls on your head you might get a bruise...

........edit.......

Is it this why "little Somchai" went to see the Texan?

....explains a lot..

[sriracha john]

Paramedics examine an injured man after a grenade attack on protesters at the Government House in Bangkok November 22, 2008. The grenade blast wounded 8 protesters occupying the Thai prime minister's office on Saturday, raising tension on the eve of a major anti-government rally, police and protest leaders said.

Reuters

=============================================================================

Thai protesters begin "final battle" against government

BANGKOK (Reuters / 51 minutes ago) – Thousands of anti-government protesters rallied in central Bangkok on Sunday, the start of what they call the "final battle" in a five-month street campaign to oust the administration.

"I fear nothing. We will not bow our heads to the dark power destroying our country," said Cat, a 48-year-old businesswoman, among the thousands of protesters waving placards and shouting "fight, fight" inside the Government House compound they have occupied since late August.

The crowd led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) planned to march to parliament early on Monday, where police have erected barricades and stationed trucks with water cannons.

A similar protest in October left two people dead and hundreds wounded when police fired tear gas to break up the rally aimed at disrupting parliament.

This time, police have been ordered not to use tear gas or other "weapons" and only carry shields, government spokesman Nattawut Saikuar said after a meeting of security ministers.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, whom the PAD accuse of being the puppet of exiled former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, his brother-in-law, assigned army chief Anupong Paochinda to monitor the protests while he attends an Asia-Pacific summit in Peru.

Major bloodshed would raise the chances of a military coup only two years after the army's removal of Thaksin, who now lives in exile after skipping bail on corruption charges.

But Anupong, who has put more than 3,000 anti-riot soldiers on standby to help the police, has said a putsch would do nothing to resolve Thailand's fundamental political rifts.

The PAD is calling the march "its final battle" to oust the government, which it blames for a grenade attack last week that killed one person and wounded 23. Another grenade blast near their protest site wounded eight PAD security guards on Saturday. Somchai has denied the government or its supporters are behind the blasts.

Police have made no arrests so far.

On the outskirts of Bangkok, thousands of red-shirted government supporters rallied in a Buddhist temple on Sunday to show their support for Somchai. Jatuporn Prompan, a leader of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), said they would not march on parliament on Monday to confront the PAD.

Raising the pressure on Somchai, public sector unions have called a nationwide strike for Tuesday unless he stands aside, a threat that, if carried out, would deepen the economic impact of a political crisis now in its fourth year.

Government decision-making has ground to a halt, intensifying fears about the export-driven economy's ability to withstand a global recession. Some foreign firms are already cutting back.

Japanese camera maker Nikon has laid off 1,500 staff in Thailand, the Bangkok Post reported on Saturday.

Last week, U.S. car giant General Motors Corp announced a two-month shutdown at its Thai plant, and Toyota Motor Corp said it planned production cuts in Thailand.

House leaders have vowed to press ahead with Monday's parliamentary session, which will debate legislation relating to next month's regional summit in the northern city of Chiang Mai. They have refused to move the session to a new venue, setting up a potentially serious confrontation.

Even if Monday passes off peacefully, tensions are likely to remain high with Thaksin set to address a rally next month.

[sriracha john]

Meeting to be postponed if PAD besieges Parliament

National security agencies Sunday recommended the Parliament President to postpone a meeting scheduled Monday if the People's Alliance for Democracy surrounds Parliament.

The suggestion was made during a meeting to top officials of key agencies in charge of security affairs, PM's Office Minister Sukhumpong Ngonekham said.

The PAD threatens to besiege Parliament Monday fearing the government would slam a charter amendment through Parliament. The meeting is scheduled for Parliament to endorse the government's plan to sign contracts with ASEAN countries during the ASEAN summit in Chiang Mai next month.

Sukhumpong said PAD's supporters surround Parliament, MPs and senators would return home.

House of Representatives Secretary-General Pithoon Phumhiran if a besiege occurs, the meeting would be indefinitely postponed but the meeting venue would not be changed.

- The Nation / 2008-11-23

The government backs down... or at least it's saying it's backing down.

those reassurances lasted for about an hour or so...

Tight security for Monday's joint meeting

The committee for monitoring the national situation resolved that the joint meeting between MPs and Senators on Monday will definitely start at 9.30am Monday, according to Government Spokesman Nattawut Saikua.

He said if the situation is not normal during the meeting, House Speaker Chai Chidchob will decide whether it would be adjourned. The meeting will not cover constitutional amendments, he added.

Nattawut said Prime Minister Somchai has asked demonstrators to think of the country and refrain from enclosing the parliament. He said police and military officers have prepared security plans for the joint meeting on Monday.

More than 1,000 policemen together with three fire engines have been dispatched to the Parliament, and ladders have been prepared for MPs and Senators to escape the building in case of emergency.

- TOC / 2008-11-23

[h90]

There are some things that need explaining in your argument:

1. You assume that the Dem. are totally honest and don't give handouts - why do you assume that is the case?

Beside some minor cases there is not much known about vote buying of the democrats. They are also a real party without owner and not a 1 man show like TRT or PPP (TRT 2nd edition). That alone limits their possibilities

2. New Politics is not a party it is a fundamental change to the governing structure. Although no one is quite sure of the details as they have never been detailed.

yes

3. How precisely would New Politics stop vote buying. As I see it the only thing it would do is to minimise the number of MPs serving by direct election. If they can keep those in the minority, they can use the "selected" ones to veto them.

Thus in affect you have removed any direct participation of the electorate. The issue of vote buying becomes irrelevant because you have removed electoral participation.

I hope you know that these "selected" one, are in fact elected as well. To stop vote buying? Just make some more efficient laws. The current laws are already a headache for PPP, so it just need some improvements...specially everything must be faster.

4. Following on from clause 3. we would assume that people would see that their vote becomes superfluous as it stands for nothing so sure take the money, but for how long will the politicians hand it out if they have no benefits. My guess is that power would become concentrated in the very top strata that can position themselves as well as favoured big business.

I can't understand that. The votes for both the direct elected and the votes for what you called "selected" get even more important.

Local politicians will become the lackeys of big business and power holders, all centrally controlled.

That is the situation right now! Most of the PPP, but also other party MPs have no clue at all and just do what their boss Thaksin is telling them. That will be more difficult. You see already now that the appointed part of the Senate is doing a good job, while the elected just do blind what they are paid for by1 Thaksin.

My suggestion is that if one sees Thailand as polarised now in terms of wealth and status you have seen nothing yet, it will be decidedly worse under any New Political regime.

That is why???

PS We are still waiting for date and location of non paid anti PAD protest with 50-100 participants.

If you read Thai news, for sure you can remember some. last one for example was at the British embassy, but there were many others as well.

[sriracha john]

that's great that they are planning to go all the way to back to this with their pre-staging ladders for wall climbing great escapes... but have they ever gotten permission from the land-owners on the other side of the wall???

PM climbs over fence to leave Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had to climb over the fence of the Parliament to leave the site on Tuesday afternoon after People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) blocked all entrances to the venue to prevent all the cabinet ministers, MPs and senators from leaving the ground.

Mr Somchai, accompanied by five or six followers, left the venue by going through a senate building before climbing over the fence using a ladder.

He passed through to the Wimanmek Palace, which was situated next to the Parliament.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-10-07

Part 2 of the story from the Nation:

Some 10 PPP MPs stopped from climbing to Vimarnmek Mansion

Some 10 People Power Party MPs were not allowed to climb over the fence into the compound of the Vimarnmek Mansion.

The MPs went to the fence after hearing that the prime minister had fled out of Parliament through that way. But officials inside the mansion did not allow them to climb over the fence.

The prime minister had to flee through the Vimarnmek Mansion after the People's Alliance for Democracy stayed the blockade of Parliament again.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30085357

[sriracha john]

On the scene reporting from TOC just now describes Government House as already being full now and that the more people still coming there are being directed to the Bridge area in expanded facilities as the numbers grow.

[sriracha john]

Footage displayed now of all the various contingents of PAD from across the nation arriving and making their way through... diversity from Thai Airways Employee Union to Sriracha Fisherman to Phitsanalok PAD Chapter, etc. etc.

the ThaiAir girls that were shown drew lots of applause...

[marshbags]

that's great that they are planning to go all the way to back to this with their pre-staging ladders for wall climbing great escapes... but have they ever gotten permission from the land-owners on the other side of the wall???

PM climbs over fence to leave Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had to climb over the fence of the Parliament to leave the site on Tuesday afternoon after People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) blocked all entrances to the venue to prevent all the cabinet ministers, MPs and senators from leaving the ground.

Mr Somchai, accompanied by five or six followers, left the venue by going through a senate building before climbing over the fence using a ladder.

He passed through to the Wimanmek Palace, which was situated next to the Parliament.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-10-07

Part 2 of the story from the Nation:

Some 10 PPP MPs stopped from climbing to Vimarnmek Mansion

Some 10 People Power Party MPs were not allowed to climb over the fence into the compound of the Vimarnmek Mansion.

The MPs went to the fence after hearing that the prime minister had fled out of Parliament through that way. But officials inside the mansion did not allow them to climb over the fence.

The prime minister had to flee through the Vimarnmek Mansion after the People's Alliance for Democracy stayed the blockade of Parliament again.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30085357

Should they be in need of a means of escape, this time, it,s been pre arranged.

Bangkok Post, BREAKING NEWS, Sunday, November 23, 2008 15:47

Part quote of Ref article :- http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132231

He said if the situation is not normal during the meeting, House speaker Chai Chidchob will decide whether it would be adjourned. The meeting will not cover constitutional amendments, he added.

Mr Nattawut said Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, who is attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) summit, has asked demonstrators to think of the country and refrain from enclosing the parliament.

He said police and military officers have prepared security plans for the joint meeting on Monday.

More than 1,000 policemen together with three fire engines have been dispatched to the parliament, and ladders have been prepared for MPs and senators to escape the building in case of emergency.

Unquote

marshbags Will they!! Won,t they!!

[Insight]

Footage displayed now of all the various contingents of PAD from across the nation arriving and making their way through... diversity from Thai Airways Employee Union to Sriracha Fisherman to Phitsanalok PAD Chapter, etc. etc.

the ThaiAir girls that were shown drew lots of applause...

I've got this on in the background - looks like a very large crowd arriving. Lets hope it all remains civil.

[h90]

Footage displayed now of all the various contingents of PAD from across the nation arriving and making their way through... diversity from Thai Airways Employee Union to Sriracha Fisherman to Phitsanalok PAD Chapter, etc. etc.

the ThaiAir girls that were shown drew lots of applause...

If I wouldn't be married, that might be the best place to find a cute educated girl.....

So sorry....tooo late for me

[marshbags]

The Nation, Breaking news, November 23, 2008 : Last updated 04:34 pm

PAD to hold bathing rite for slain guard Monday

The People's Alliance for Democracy announced Sunday that it will hold a bathing rite for its guard, who was fatally injured in a bomb attack Saturday, on Monday.

Doctor Surasak Leela-udomlippi, deputy director of the Ramathibodi Hospital, said Anupong Samerphak, 21, died of brain-dead and failed blood circulation at 1:45 pm.

Doctors performed an operation on his brain and found a tiny object at his brain stem, he said.

The PAD announced at the rally site in the Government House complex that the bathing rite would be held at the Soammanas Maha Worawiharn.

Anupong was in coma since he was attacked by a grenade early Saturday.

Unquote

May he and all who suffer the ultimate for this very important and just cause RIP

marshbags

Edited November 23, 2008 by marshbags