Frustrating Cultural Differences

[2long]

For me, it's the dinner table (or lack of its use) at feeding times!

[mrt273nva]

I don't really like the medicinal voodoo magic to cure my son of his normal child ailments. I prefer to take him to a medical doctor (preferably western educated) who works in a hospital when something is wrong.

[torrenova]

All kinds of things ranging from car safety to cleaning the house to proper care of clothes and laziness. The list is almost endless.

Thais have a habit of believing anyone Thai who they think knows more than they do out of aged respect. They hate it when you point out that grandma knows next to nothing and thinks the world is flat etc. They do not understand that many of us are highly educated and even though we are not doctors we know a heck of a lot more about stuff than your average Thai non medical person. Thais also believe that because it was done this way then that is ok. When you point out that half their family is dead for a variety of preventable reasons they clam up. Fate it is, not their lack of knowledge or just plain stupidity.

As for the dinner table, well we don't use one. Haven't myself at home except on occasions for years but outside, sitting in the mud in the village is not the right place. There are unacceptable extremes. Children should know how to sit at a dinner table though.

Lies are perhaps the worst to deal with. They come in all shapes and forms but as a non confrontational people when caught lying, they think we are stupid enough to go along with their stupid ways. Being taught to say whatever they think will cause the least problems or least confrontation irrespective of how near the truth (or how far from the truth) it is is a major bug bear. I call a spade a spade and have often had problems with employees and the family because I won't stand for bullshit or downright lies.

The thing is that you don't have to accept it. At worst it is 50% 50% and in economic terms it is often near 100% 0%. If they won't give you respect for your morals and ways and respect your often greater knowledge, then you have to question the validity of remaining attached.

[philstone]

All kinds of things ranging from car safety to cleaning the house to proper care of clothes and laziness. The list is almost endless.

Thais have a habit of believing anyone Thai who they think knows more than they do out of aged respect. They hate it when you point out that grandma knows next to nothing and thinks the world is flat etc. They do not understand that many of us are highly educated and even though we are not doctors we know a heck of a lot more about stuff than your average Thai non medical person. Thais also believe that because it was done this way then that is ok. When you point out that half their family is dead for a variety of preventable reasons they clam up. Fate it is, not their lack of knowledge or just plain stupidity.

As for the dinner table, well we don't use one. Haven't myself at home except on occasions for years but outside, sitting in the mud in the village is not the right place. There are unacceptable extremes. Children should know how to sit at a dinner table though.

Lies are perhaps the worst to deal with. They come in all shapes and forms but as a non confrontational people when caught lying, they think we are stupid enough to go along with their stupid ways. Being taught to say whatever they think will cause the least problems or least confrontation irrespective of how near the truth (or how far from the truth) it is is a major bug bear. I call a spade a spade and have often had problems with employees and the family because I won't stand for bullshit or downright lies.

The thing is that you don't have to accept it. At worst it is 50% 50% and in economic terms it is often near 100% 0%. If they won't give you respect for your morals and ways and respect your often greater knowledge, then you have to question the validity of remaining attached.

I now understand that lairing is what my GF does best. The Validity of our relationship is she lies and I give her money. Can you believe what a good deal she has.

[GENeIsUS]

If you break it down to their culture, I think the Thai people are too polite. They tell you what they think you want to hear. Fact or fiction is immaterial. Hence what we hear are lies and what they say is a placebo.

[garro]

Raising a family in Thailand can have its frustrating moments, but at the end of the day this is what happens when you choose a mixed-cultured family; it comes with the territory and for most of us it would not be possible to just walk away when the going gets rocky. The important thing is to respect both cultures, but realize that if you live in one culture then that one will tend to take over more than the other.

My wife does have views about our son that I do disagree with, but I have learnt to choose my battles carefully, and allow for the possibility that it could be my view that is wrong. If something is important to my wife than of course I will try and go along with this unless I think that it will harm my son. Constantly telling my wife that she is doing things wrong would just not work and ruin the relationship. The people of Thailand have been raising children successfully long before whitey arrived on the scene. Luckily for our son both of us want the best for him.

I do find it amusing that many come to Thailand and go through two stages; 1st stage: people think that the Thais have got everything right and that people in the West have got it wrong. 2nd stage: people in Thailand haven't got a clue unlike people in the West who have it right about everything. It is important to realize that this type of thinking is just barmy. If you raise your child and disrespect half of who they are then it is bound to backfire. If your child is half-Thai you must respect that part of them and try to also promote the culture that you bring to the table equally - in my opinion.

Edited October 15, 2008 by garro

[mrt273nva]

I do find it amusing that many come to Thailand and go through two stages; 1st stage: people think that the Thais have got everything right and that people in the West have got it wrong. 2nd stage: people in Thailand haven't got a clue unlike people in the West who have it right about everything. It is important to realize that this type of thinking is just barmy. If you raise your child and disrespect half of who they are then it is bound to backfire. If your child is half-Thai you must respect that part of them and try to also promote the culture that you bring to the table equally - in my opinion.

yeah, who knows. maybe rubbing dead lizard tails on my son is right. but personally i think they don't have a clue.

[philstone]

If you break it down to their culture, I think the Thai people are too polite. They tell you what they think you want to hear. Fact or fiction is immaterial. Hence what we hear are lies and what they say is a placebo.

[/quote

Thai's who lie to Farangs are doing them a service we should thankful they do not tell the truth. I think it is wonderful they lie to us. We are lucky I guess you like being lie to. I think you are very good looking, your love one loves you too much and you are very smart. I am a Thai

[matcube]

Excellent topic!

Lucky enough, my wife and I have mostly shared views, so no conflict there. But when it comes to grandparents and extended family, not one point was missed! I laughed so much while reading the list and the added comments, and I am relieved to see it's a common problem.

It would be nice to read (in another topic?) the top list for wanting to be in a thai-farang relationship. An outsider reading only this topic may think we are all crazy or what?

[Flatouthruthefog]

Excellent topic!

Lucky enough, my wife and I have mostly shared views, so no conflict there. But when it comes to grandparents and extended family, not one point was missed! I laughed so much while reading the list and the added comments, and I am relieved to see it's a common problem.

It would be nice to read (in another topic?) the top list for wanting to be in a thai-farang relationship. An outsider reading only this topic may think we are all crazy or what?

Agree, I also like your remarks Garro.

Our 3+ year old boy has been getting very greedy lately, wanting a new toy (albeit cheap plastic) almost every day. Because they cost as little as 10b each my Thai wife and her generous brother have been indulging him.

They argue that these things are affordable, I argue that this is the way to produce a spoiled brat. They do not believe that at the same age in UK, I got one small toy car for the birthday and another for Christmas and that was IT for the year.

Anyway, today I seem to have put forward an idea acceptable to all. We find a large transparent plastic jar, label it with his name and put it on a shelf where he can see it.

Every week, we put a small amount of money into it while he is watching and explain clearly that it's his spending money. When we go to the shops we take some out and show it's being spent on his toy. What is not spent goes back and can mount up until he sees something more costly which he really wants.

He's not old enough to handle money, of course, but we think that this might be a good start.

[torrenova]

.......The people of Thailand have been raising children successfully long before whitey arrived on the scene. Luckily for our son both of us want the best for him.......

Er ........... not quite. I don't have umpteen dead people in my family. I don't have unnecessarily handicapped people in my family. Most of my family don't have dog bites. All of my family have been vaccinated. I could go on.

Yes there are many reasons but just breeding more and more because some will not make it does not seem very successful to me.

[torrenova]

If you break it down to their culture, I think the Thai people are too polite. They tell you what they think you want to hear. Fact or fiction is immaterial. Hence what we hear are lies and what they say is a placebo.

Not telling the truth is lying. Whatever they think we want to hear, when we ask for the truth we don't want a childish made up cock and bull story which would not fool a 10 year old back in the west.

[torrenova]

Agree, I also like your remarks Garro.

Our 3+ year old boy has been getting very greedy lately, wanting a new toy (albeit cheap plastic) almost every day. Because they cost as little as 10b each my Thai wife and her generous brother have been indulging him.

They argue that these things are affordable, I argue that this is the way to produce a spoiled brat. They do not believe that at the same age in UK, I got one small toy car for the birthday and another for Christmas and that was IT for the year.

Anyway, today I seem to have put forward an idea acceptable to all. We find a large transparent plastic jar, label it with his name and put it on a shelf where he can see it.

Every week, we put a small amount of money into it while he is watching and explain clearly that it's his spending money. When we go to the shops we take some out and show it's being spent on his toy. What is not spent goes back and can mount up until he sees something more costly which he really wants.

He's not old enough to handle money, of course, but we think that this might be a good start.

We have this in fit and starts but I partially got around it by semi banning all these dangerous cheap toys that come from market stalls with bits that fall off and such like. I got my wife to see the danger early on and though she does sometimes falter, she has largely adopted the stance that certain makes, whilst more expensive (much more) and likely to be safe. I'm not talking about wooden blocks here but the rubbish which would be instantly banned in any developed country.

I like the idea of saving the money. Our daughter is too young at th moment but the idea of have now or have more later is a very useful lesson to learn.

May I say that in a year of buying toys (she is now 15 months) our daughter has, by far, had the most pleasure, enjoyment and education from the expensive Fisher Price toys we have bought her.

I can wholeheartedly recommend this http://www.fisher-price.com/fp.aspx?st=234...l&pid=30446 although pricey at about Bt8,000 (rip off when USD 70 !) provides endless hours of fun.

[mizzi39]

Great topic! I agree with "choosing your battles" and finding balance. The key fundamentals to any relationship.

[benlovesnuk]

There is nothing cultural about what you have said to be the apparent problem you have with these people your attacking, people lie everywhere, children lie in any country!!!!!!!! If you cant make sense of the differences, maybe that is your fault for not being able to adjust or handle the situation as best as you could, you are in another country so you have to change not the other way round!!!!!!!

Nothing i have heard has made sense in the critique towards thai's, yes some people think that rubbing a lizards tail on your child is going to make it better, clearly if you doubted this you should have not let it happen( but maybe this was too easy a solution)!!!!!!. From a personal experience as it seems that is what were expressing none of my family would have this done to them or their children!!!!!!! Some thai's are more modern and adjusted to science then others, on the whole you are responsible for your child, regardless of family hierarchy and culture, but if you are complaining about these issues maybe you were abit naive in emerging yourself in to such an obvious complex ordeal.

However garro seems to comprehend that there must be a compromise to whats best for the child, why is it that others including the apparent more elite cant grasp this mentality.

too many people want to turn other ethnicites in their home country towards there own views and culture, they also want to do it where they then preside in other countries too (apart from the usual hypocracy) you cant have it both ways, so just limiting your moaning and getting on with it sounds like a better solution, suck it up or go home !

[barky]

There is nothing cultural about what you have said to be the apparent problem you have with these people your attacking, people lie everywhere, children lie in any country!!!!!!!! If you cant make sense of the differences, maybe that is your fault for not being able to adjust or handle the situation as best as you could, you are in another country so you have to change not the other way round!!!!!!!

Nothing i have heard has made sense in the critique towards thai's, yes some people think that rubbing a lizards tail on your child is going to make it better, clearly if you doubted this you should have not let it happen( but maybe this was too easy a solution)!!!!!!. From a personal experience as it seems that is what were expressing none of my family would have this done to them or their children!!!!!!! Some thai's are more modern and adjusted to science then others, on the whole you are responsible for your child, regardless of family hierarchy and culture, but if you are complaining about these issues maybe you were abit naive in emerging yourself in to such an obvious complex ordeal.

However garro seems to comprehend that there must be a compromise to whats best for the child, why is it that others including the apparent more elite cant grasp this mentality.

too many people want to turn other ethnicites in their home country towards there own views and culture, they also want to do it where they then preside in other countries too (apart from the usual hypocracy) you cant have it both ways, so just limiting your moaning and getting on with it sounds like a better solution, suck it up or go home !

I'll hazard a guess that you are Thai, and I'll further guess that you are not married to an alien and have no children as a result of that union, and if that is so, how do you know? From what experience are you drawing upon?

These people are discussing their experiences on the topic, and on this site they have the right to do so, if that's OK by you.

Whether they have a negative or positive opinion, it is still their opinion and are entitled to it on this site.

Finally, why should people "suck it up" as you say? And why should they go home just because they have put forward an idea that you don't like.

When you take over the country, you can then kick out all those moaning aliens that don't know their place and expess attitudes about things you don't agree with.

Until then...........................

When you run your own web site you can then make the rules.

[sbk]

Actually, barky, if you'd checked the poster's short posting history, you would have seen that he is a young British man with a thai wife and a baby on the way

[jumnien]

My wife is Thai, I am ex-American. Our boy is now 3 years, 3 months old, daughter was just born last Sunday. I have to agree with Garro. I am certainly no expert in child rearing. I didn't get my own life together until my late thirties, early forties. So who am I too judge. Some of the ways my wife and her family seemed odd, or plain wrong, along the way. But now, looking back, I love the way her family instills confidence and caring in my son and their constantly giving nature. If we moved back to the US we would not get the same from my well-intentioned family.

[barky]

Actually, barky, if you'd checked the poster's short posting history, you would have seen that he is a young British man with a thai wife and a baby on the way

Thank you sbk. Well noted. However, to my mind, that just makes his comments worse for other reasons.

[bina]

garro i think has encapsulated , as did one other poster, the essence of cross cultural relationships;

when u live in an other country, totally alien to your way of life, then at first it is exotic, then, usually, u see it as 'wrong' (third world, whtaever). however, they have been living that way for however long, and see 'your' way of life as possibly wrong.

looking thru the eyes of someone from the culture u are living in, they must think that many of the things u do are just plain 'wrong'. not everything from 'your' culture is the proper or correct or best way. medical issues are one thing, but cultural things, like eating at a table , well, thats just a cultural norm from a particular society. to most 'country' thai, giving respect to an elder is much more important than eating properly with a fork. my husband is still horrified when my kids come in to the house WITH THEIR SHOES ON!! . horror oh horror. and seat belts, well, i remember argueing with my then father in law (hungarian old timer kibbutznik) about my new fangled american idea of SEAT BELTS for children. and my ex mother in law horrified THAT I FED MY BABY A BOTTLE WITH OUT HOLDING HER IN MY ARMS i.e. sitting in a high chair. horror . americans are soooooo cold and sterile and it was bad for the baby's development was her comment. (i have to agree here btw).

what really bothers my (thai)husband is the yelling/'puut sien laang, that most isrealis use all the time, always sounding angry. it especially bothers him when my kids shout at each other or at me, however, here, that is the way every one behaves, it is the soical norm for good or for bad so he just makes faces and escapes to the bedroom when voices are raised.

the key is being consistent i.e. mom is this way, dad is that way, and the children learn very quickly how to behave in each cercumstance. we have it in families that half are very religious, and others arent. trust me, the kids learn no problem.

btw, good idea about the money. too late for my kids now.

bina anon

israel

[petitechevre]

Im sorry to come off so strong, since i dont troll this section. But you people with problems, should NOT have married bar girls or rice farmers with no education.

Im with a normal girl who lived in bangkok her whole life, She has some dumb knowledge on babies, but most of her knowledge is pretty accurate. When she is wrong, i show her proof instead of arguing, she gets mad for 10mins then its over. That's normal thai mentality, im ready to deal with it.

Her mom, being the nanny, did a couple things wrong(No wonder since her other 2 child are 40yo failures that havnt done shit in their lives and are dumber than a pair of socks) but after my gf told her my preference, she started doing those things right away..

things that come to mind are, she thought that you couldnt wash the baby's face with soap, baby got some acne.. told her many times.. then i showed her an answer from my mom saying we need to use soap, the next day they started using soap. (mom is in the medical field)

Bunch of stuff like that.

If you can reason with your wife, you probably should of waited to find a girl with a normal iq before taking the first thing that wanted of you. Thais are not problematic if you are clear to them and provide proof and let them cope with it ALONE so that they don't lose face. And i know a lot about that, i make my Gf lose face quite a lot, and just leave her pout 10mins before she comes back to me with a smile.

The shoe in the house part, is actualy quite a good thing to be scared of. Maybe you think thais are crazy, but wait untill the days you get kids who run in mud than run inside with shoes on.. teaching kids to take off shoes 100% of the time, will not only make them more polite but it will eventually avoid dirty situations AND it keeps the house clean.

Thank you garro for a good reply, i feel that even though im only 22, i am more adequate to raising a child than 90% of this forum with all the replies i have been reading for months in these thread

So cliffnote:

Life is easy, when people don't listen you get FACTS, You show them to the needy, You give them time to cope, things change.

Life is hard, when people just spew random thoughts thinking they are right, it starts to look like an american election. People get angry, nothing gets resolved and dumb posts are being made online.

[madjbs]

These threads always bring out the ethnocentric moaners.

Garro has pretty much got it spot on in his post though (as usual when it comes to these kind of issues).

Why can't some people see anything other than through their own narrow perspective? Sad......

[matcube]

Well, apart from a couple of replies at the extreme of the spectrum (which, in my opinion, are welcome too), most posters have been balanced in their views. That is, while I was reading the posts, I never felt we were strongly judging or complaining or mad... just sharing point of views, experiences, and having some fun in the process.

Example: I read about lying and the example of saying that a Gecko is dangerous... it reminded of my father in law refusing to indulge my 3 y.o. daughter's request to be taken outdoor with him "because it is raining", to which she promptly replied "but I don't see any raining falling", and then again "well, it will rain soon", to which "we can stay outside and when it rains we come back inside". So when I read the similar situation I just laughed out loud; I didn't start blaming to the Thais as liers and this wrong model etc. etc, and most of us haven't either.

[2long]

petitechevre; 22? WOW! What a man! So much experience, maturity, wisdom and knowledge about all the bar girls and rice farmers.

Thanks so far everyone (for reasonable posts), and don't forget to keep voting.

[bina]

The shoe in the house part, is actualy quite a good thing to be scared of. Maybe you think thais are crazy, but wait untill the days you get kids who run in mud than run inside with shoes on.. teaching kids to take off shoes 100% of the time, will not only make them more polite but it will eventually avoid dirty situations AND it keeps the house clean.

Thank you garro for a good reply, i feel that even though im only 22, i am more adequate to raising a child than 90% of this forum with all the replies i have been reading for months in these thread

REALLY!!

i've managed to raise three in the main time: one 'child' is now a commander in the IDF in charge of other girl soldiers; one boy is now with a group of kids helping in a slum; the third although allergic and asthmatic, rides horses and outdoor camps, and works with babies.... and they all crawled on the dirty marbelized floors we have here, they all crawled around my goats, and they all were raised more outdoors then indoors, and were let to find out for themselves often whether something really was dangerous or not... so removing shoes is just a thai THING... , and as garro wrote, some people are just sooo ethnocentric. its true, my thai husband has a harder time accepting cultural difference then i do, since i majored in cross cultural studies and its an area that fascinates me to this day, and i live in a very bizarre society relegiously and ethnically not to say politcally...

some of anon's cultural beliefs (use of certain plants; ways of preparin certain foods, even some child rearing ideas; and certainly a lot of his non aggressiveness and lack of 'looking for trouble-ness' )are certainly an improvement over what i see around me here... as far as child rearing goes, every society has its own 'foibles', even nowadays here u cant find two mothers to agree on whether they should boil all the bottles once a child starts to crawl or whether that is TOO sterile ( a theory i heard today from a new mother)... and i kind of wish that spanking was still allowed, when my kids were younger, not child beating, but a spank on the tush i think is still more effective on a younger child than always having to explain and reason with them... as anon always says, if he had backtalked his mother like my kids do, they would have been smacked, and so my mother would have smacked me too... but i'm sure in a few years all methods will reverse . a new fangled theory that is returning here at least is when parents have to take control and remind their kids that they are the parents and run the show, no more being a buddy to your child, sounds pretty much like my issaan husband's parents way of raising a kid...

my 'rice field low iq bar girl is actually a hard working husband fo rth most part, non liar except for the white lies that i notice most people use (is my hat nice... yes yes, even if it is chartruese green), high iq, low education non confrontational thank god since i live in a country that is solid confrontation in your face all the time...

really little goat , i think u are arrogant and infantile and showing your 22 years....

bina and anon

israel

[torrenova]

Im sorry to come off so strong, since i dont troll this section. But you people with problems, should NOT have married bar girls or rice farmers with no education.

Im with a normal girl who lived in bangkok her whole life, She has some dumb knowledge on babies, but most of her knowledge is pretty accurate. When she is wrong, i show her proof instead of arguing, she gets mad for 10mins then its over. That's normal thai mentality, im ready to deal with it.

Her mom, being the nanny, did a couple things wrong(No wonder since her other 2 child are 40yo failures that havnt done shit in their lives and are dumber than a pair of socks) but after my gf told her my preference, she started doing those things right away..

things that come to mind are, she thought that you couldnt wash the baby's face with soap, baby got some acne.. told her many times.. then i showed her an answer from my mom saying we need to use soap, the next day they started using soap. (mom is in the medical field)

Bunch of stuff like that.

If you can reason with your wife, you probably should of waited to find a girl with a normal iq before taking the first thing that wanted of you. Thais are not problematic if you are clear to them and provide proof and let them cope with it ALONE so that they don't lose face. And i know a lot about that, i make my Gf lose face quite a lot, and just leave her pout 10mins before she comes back to me with a smile.

The shoe in the house part, is actualy quite a good thing to be scared of. Maybe you think thais are crazy, but wait untill the days you get kids who run in mud than run inside with shoes on.. teaching kids to take off shoes 100% of the time, will not only make them more polite but it will eventually avoid dirty situations AND it keeps the house clean.

Thank you garro for a good reply, i feel that even though im only 22, i am more adequate to raising a child than 90% of this forum with all the replies i have been reading for months in these thread

So cliffnote:

Life is easy, when people don't listen you get FACTS, You show them to the needy, You give them time to cope, things change.

Life is hard, when people just spew random thoughts thinking they are right, it starts to look like an american election. People get angry, nothing gets resolved and dumb posts are being made online.

You need to grow up young man. You may have a regular Thai girlfriend but do not for one second assume that all the other guys here have ex hooker girls ! However, we do have some that have and I see no shame in that. Perhaps when you have more years under your belt you will soften your holier than thou attitude.

To be honest, I re-read your post a couple of times to see if I had missed the place where you show your much publicised maturity for a 22 year old. I could not find it, though I found a lot of misguided comments which, through experience, are due to a lack of knowledge either from personal experience or length of time spent on the planet.

It is clear also that you know next to jack shit about Thais or Thailand.

[petitechevre]

snip

[bina]

good he got snipped. maybe i am suffering pms today but he even got MY goat.......

bina

[matcube]

I missed what the snipped comment was, but I'd say, let the guy have his saying (in a polite and civilized manner). Assuming that a 22 y.o. young man must necessarily be immature is just prejudice. There have been many examples in the past of famous (or less famous) people who, by that age, were well formed and achieved and said interesting and/or innovating things.

[Boo]

(in a polite and civilized manner).

If it were as you say then the comments would stay but sadly little goat cannot control himself & needs a cooling off period to learn that being offensive & rude isn't a the only way to post here.