Tourist Police -- Open Letter For Your Reply

[Mark Wolfe]

On Sunday the 12th, two French young men had rented jet skiis on Lamai Beach and had just started out from shore. As they got to deep water, they saw one of the Thai guys operating the business speeding out to one of them (the two boys had split up after leaving the beach, each going in different directions). As the Thai came into earshot, he yelled that he forgot something on the rented jet ski. He came to a stop in the middle of a turn and then shouted for the Frenchman to come to him...as he approached, the Thai told him to kill the engine.

The Frenchman told me he did not have that in mind but that if the owner said to stop the engine, he thought it best to comply. Having done that, and being pointed at the Thai man and his jet ski...the Frenchman realized immediately that once you stop the engine you lose all ability to steer. So he coasted into the other craft, the one with the Thai man in it.

The result was a fiberglass puncture -- an irregular hole about fist-sized.

Back on dry sand, the two boys tried to call the tourist police -- they called a number that they had gotten from their hotel and also one that the regular police (the boys in brown) had given them after they arrived on the scene.

No one ever answered the phone.

I could go on with the story, and how the two young men were cordial and easily capitulated to the arbitrary payout that they were compelled to make, even though this accident was clearly the fault of the Thai man.

I mentioned to the boys, after they had coughed up a wad of cash, that the tourist police are generally worthless, and they said, "Yes, that's what the hotel said."

So anyone from the tourist police reading this, please feel free to reply. This was a textbook example of an incident that needed the assistance of a competent tourist police force. Where were you?

M

[sriracha john]

[funfun]

On Sunday the 12th, two French young men had rented jet skiis on Lamai Beach and had just started out from shore. As they got to deep water, they saw one of the Thai guys operating the business speeding out to one of them (the two boys had split up after leaving the beach, each going in different directions). As the Thai came into earshot, he yelled that he forgot something on the rented jet ski. He came to a stop in the middle of a turn and then shouted for the Frenchman to come to him...as he approached, the Thai told him to kill the engine.

The Frenchman told me he did not have that in mind but that if the owner said to stop the engine, he thought it best to comply. Having done that, and being pointed at the Thai man and his jet ski...the Frenchman realized immediately that once you stop the engine you lose all ability to steer. So he coasted into the other craft, the one with the Thai man in it.

The result was a fiberglass puncture -- an irregular hole about fist-sized.

Back on dry sand, the two boys tried to call the tourist police -- they called a number that they had gotten from their hotel and also one that the regular police (the boys in brown) had given them after they arrived on the scene.

No one ever answered the phone.

I could go on with the story, and how the two young men were cordial and easily capitulated to the arbitrary payout that they were compelled to make, even though this accident was clearly the fault of the Thai man.

I mentioned to the boys, after they had coughed up a wad of cash, that the tourist police are generally worthless, and they said, "Yes, that's what the hotel said."

So anyone from the tourist police reading this, please feel free to reply. This was a textbook example of an incident that needed the assistance of a competent tourist police force. Where were you?

M

"This was a textbook example of an incident that needed the assistance of a competent tourist police force. Where were you?"

"this accident was clearly the fault of the Thai man. " ?????????? why?

youve spoke to these kids, yep, you spoke to "thai man, i doubt it, right, you put yourselfe in the thai mans shoes, hes trying to get 2 FORGIENERS to come and speak with him for whatever reason, and one runs into you, breaking your boat/jetski, irespective of how he was supposed to have told him to end engine fin engine shut of engine make boat stop, even if he said run your jetski into mine so it breaks, its common sense and now the kids have learnt a little more about life, sum num nar!

as for the police, i would presume they were having a drink in a nearside cafe watching it all, laughing thier heads off, guessing how much they would end up paying, as i would have been doing the same.

This was a textbook example of an incident that needed the 2 french guys mothers with them on thier first jetski lessons!

[angiud]

In Haad Rin I can see, in the parking behind my restaurant, a Tourist Police Nissan SUV parked for over 2 months, well hidden, for I don't know which reason. BTW I never, ever see Tourist Police in Haad Rin, also during the FMP. The Small office on Thong Sala Pier is always close too.

And, believe me, we really need a good, trustful, Tourist Police in KPG

[Comehome]

Hi!

From what I heared yesterday was "police-day" and all police were in meetings and that was why the tourist police was not able to be reached yesterday.

I don't know if it was the same during the sunday.

I would also like to hear both sides of the story before I decide what to feel and think about it.

I understand your feelings though, and as someone said earlier in the thread, it is easy to put oneself in the french-mens position but it would be interesting to hear what the thai-man has to say too. It is more fair to both sides.

I hope they manage to solve this as fair as possible for both sides.

[mattias33]

You can call the real police in matters like this. I called police chaweng sometimes when it was real crime, and they come quick and are helpful and speak descent Englich. Since it was two Frenchmen this time i suppose they did not travel around with Thaigirls like i always did when i was a tourist ( ) but anyway, if you do have a Thai availible, let them make the call. Touristpolice can not do anything except being the link between you and the real police. And most touristpolicemen don´t speak thai so you might aswell be the link yourself.

Am i aloud to put telephone numbers here?

If not, mod please delete it.

Police chaweng: 077413033

We called that nr 3 in the night sometimes and always had a officer at our service within 20 minuites.

Btw, anyone asking you to pay money for you breaking something, if they infact are right about their case, they themselves should call the police, not you. If it seems fishy, just tell them you won´t pay and that you want the police to look at this. The jetski boys are usually 45 kilo Thaiboys and not much to be afraid of. Then again, being on holiday i could understand it´s easier to spend the few bucks than to waste 5 hours getting your right.

Edited October 14, 2008 by mattias33

[whatsoever]

I must say in fairness to the police that a particular hotel at which i used to stay in Pattaya was always kept very safe. (still is).

If you go into the reception area where their is a nice big TV, comfy seats and aircon you will always see 3 or more nice police men sitting gaurding the hotel. Sometimes - especialy on a nightshift - they will do so much gaurding of the hotel that they get realy tired and fall asleep

[skippybangkok]

Now thats the best smiley i have ever seen wid da bong

[thaierless]

I must say in fairness to the police that a particular hotel at which i used to stay in Pattaya was always kept very safe. (still is).

If you go into the reception area where their is a nice big TV, comfy seats and aircon you will always see 3 or more nice police men sitting gaurding the hotel. Sometimes - especialy on a nightshift - they will do so much gaurding of the hotel that they get realy tired and fall asleep

police?? on Samui?? really?...been here many years....never see before...interesting

[PoorSucker]

I must say in fairness to the police that a particular hotel at which i used to stay in Pattaya was always kept very safe. (still is).

If you go into the reception area where their is a nice big TV, comfy seats and aircon you will always see 3 or more nice police men sitting gaurding the hotel. Sometimes - especialy on a nightshift - they will do so much gaurding of the hotel that they get realy tired and fall asleep

Ehh, post again when you know the difference between a security guard and the police.

[frankman]

Here on KPG,

we do NOT call the cops!!!

[whatsoever]

I must say in fairness to the police that a particular hotel at which i used to stay in Pattaya was always kept very safe. (still is).

If you go into the reception area where their is a nice big TV, comfy seats and aircon you will always see 3 or more nice police men sitting gaurding the hotel. Sometimes - especialy on a nightshift - they will do so much gaurding of the hotel that they get realy tired and fall asleep

Ehh, post again when you know the difference between a security guard and the police.

Ehh, post again when you understand irony/humour

[Tony121]

If I rent a car and the owner calls me back and i forget to apply the brakes and smash into his shop who's fault is that ?

[Mark Wolfe]

Funfun makes my case for the need for interactive tourist police. He presupposes that I didn't talk to the Thai side (the Thai man who told the youth to cut the engine didn't dispute that this was the cause of the accident, nor did he hesitate to ask for "opportunity costs" for the loss of rental that he would have because the jet ski was out of service -- even though this was clearly not in the contract signed by the renter. I know this Funfun because I looked at the agreement.).

The Thais demanded a pie-in-the-sky compensation and the foreigner, in spite of arguing that were it not for the Thai shouting to stop the engine, this wouldn't have happened, said he'd pay half.

As for the crack Funfun makes about the maturity of the French tourists, I can attest they they acted in an exemplary manner, even though they knew, and the police knew and the Thai jet ski owners knew that the end result was a shakedown and in all likelihood if it had been another Thai involved instead of a foreigner, the outcome would have been much different (like, for example, getting an actual quote on the repairs before pulling some figure out of the air regarding how much the damages would cost to fix).

As for Funfun's remark:

as for the police, i would presume they were having a drink in a nearside cafe watching it all, laughing thier heads off, guessing how much they would end up paying, as i would have been doing the same.

Why would you be doing this if you were a law enforcement officer? I imagine you'd be singing a different tune if, God forbid, you ever had an altercation with a Thai and needed help.

But all of this is tangential; the nut here is this: for the purpose of this thread, it doesn't matter who was "right" and who was "wrong." The point here is clear: this was a situation that could have been addressed by the tourist police, yet they were not reachable on two different phone numbers.

Do the "tourist police" actually exist? Is it actually just a facade to give the impression that there's a helping hand for tourists who find themselves in accidents or disputes while on the island?

Where are the tourist police?

(By the way, not that it matters, but what if I was using a rented chain saw -- me not being familiar with their operation much -- and while I am cutting a tree, the owner of the saw shouts to turn it off. Even though I am halfway through my cut (and had no intention of shutting off the saw until I was finished cutting the trunk), I turn off the machine and in doing so, the chain breaks. Apparently this can happen if you stop in the middle of a cut, but I didn't know that...however, I would expect the owner of the saw to know that.

I wouldn't have turned the saw off if it weren't for the owner telling me too, but now he says that I broke the chain and that I have to pay what seems to be very much more than a new chain might cost because "I" broke it. He doesn't get a quote, he just comes out with a figure, and then calls two police who don't speak any English to "assist" in the "problem."

Sure would be nice to have some decent arbitration right about now, don't you think?)

[Mark Wolfe]

If I rent a car and the owner calls me back and i forget to apply the brakes and smash into his shop who's fault is that ?

If I rent a car and the owner calls me back and tells me not to apply the brakes and I smash into his shop, who's fault is that ?

[SamuiJens]

The TP needs to be available to the tourist or close down. This has been an on going problem on Samui for years now, when will it change?

TP answer the questions PLEASE!

[Tony121]

Well we can go back to the old argument of "if he told you to jump of a cliff would you?" if the thai guy had to go out there to get them they were most probably doing something wrong and to make a hole in the jet ski i doubt it was a little bump.

maybe we can agree to split the blame 50/50 ?

[PoorSucker]

I must say in fairness to the police that a particular hotel at which i used to stay in Pattaya was always kept very safe. (still is).

If you go into the reception area where their is a nice big TV, comfy seats and aircon you will always see 3 or more nice police men sitting gaurding the hotel. Sometimes - especialy on a nightshift - they will do so much gaurding of the hotel that they get realy tired and fall asleep

Ehh, post again when you know the difference between a security guard and the police.

Ehh, post again when you understand irony/humour

A couple of years ago there where a British lady that claimed to have been drugged at Green Mango.

The men carried her away for the rape while the "Police" guarding the entrance was laughing.

Misinformation can have consequences.

[funfun]

Funfun makes my case for the need for interactive tourist police. He presupposes that I didn't talk to the Thai side (the Thai man who told the youth to cut the engine didn't dispute that this was the cause of the accident, nor did he hesitate to ask for "opportunity costs" for the loss of rental that he would have because the jet ski was out of service -- even though this was clearly not in the contract signed by the renter. I know this Funfun because I looked at the agreement.).

The Thais demanded a pie-in-the-sky compensation and the foreigner, in spite of arguing that were it not for the Thai shouting to stop the engine, this wouldn't have happened, said he'd pay half.

As for the crack Funfun makes about the maturity of the French tourists, I can attest they they acted in an exemplary manner, even though they knew, and the police knew and the Thai jet ski owners knew that the end result was a shakedown and in all likelihood if it had been another Thai involved instead of a foreigner, the outcome would have been much different (like, for example, getting an actual quote on the repairs before pulling some figure out of the air regarding how much the damages would cost to fix).

As for Funfun's remark:

as for the police, i would presume they were having a drink in a nearside cafe watching it all, laughing thier heads off, guessing how much they would end up paying, as i would have been doing the same.

Why would you be doing this if you were a law enforcement officer? I imagine you'd be singing a different tune if, God forbid, you ever had an altercation with a Thai and needed help.

But all of this is tangential; the nut here is this: for the purpose of this thread, it doesn't matter who was "right" and who was "wrong." The point here is clear: this was a situation that could have been addressed by the tourist police, yet they were not reachable on two different phone numbers.

Do the "tourist police" actually exist? Is it actually just a facade to give the impression that there's a helping hand for tourists who find themselves in accidents or disputes while on the island?

Where are the tourist police?

(By the way, not that it matters, but what if I was using a rented chain saw -- me not being familiar with their operation much -- and while I am cutting a tree, the owner of the saw shouts to turn it off. Even though I am halfway through my cut (and had no intention of shutting off the saw until I was finished cutting the trunk), I turn off the machine and in doing so, the chain breaks. Apparently this can happen if you stop in the middle of a cut, but I didn't know that...however, I would expect the owner of the saw to know that.but what if I was using a rented chain saw -- me not being familiar with their operation much -- and while I am cutting a tree, the owner of the saw shouts to turn it off

I wouldn't have turned the saw off if it weren't for the owner telling me too, but now he says that I broke the chain and that I have to pay what seems to be very much more than a new chain might cost because "I" broke it. He doesn't get a quote, he just comes out with a figure, and then calls two police who don't speak any English to "assist" in the "problem."

Sure would be nice to have some decent arbitration right about now, don't you think?)

listen, you speak like some sort of bar room lawer, why? no idea, now lets just look at what you wrote,

"but what if I was using a rented chain saw -- me not being familiar with their operation much -- and while I am cutting a tree, the owner of the saw shouts to turn it off"

he didnt say turn it off where it is, did he, he sais turn it off, that means make it safe and shut it down, same as a car or a jetski,

if your stupid enough to turn it off in the tree beacause "not being familiar with their operation much" thats your fault and so back to the jetsking french, its thier fault, and yes i would have been laughing!

chris

[mattias33]

listen, you speak like some sort of bar room lawer, why? no idea, now lets just look at what you wrote,

"but what if I was using a rented chain saw -- me not being familiar with their operation much -- and while I am cutting a tree, the owner of the saw shouts to turn it off"

he didnt say turn it off where it is, did he, he sais turn it off, that means make it safe and shut it down, same as a car or a jetski,

if your stupid enough to turn it off in the tree beacause "not being familiar with their operation much" thats your fault and so back to the jetsking french, its thier fault, and yes i would have been laughing!

chris

Wow, you´re good! Ever considered going into politics or car-sales?

Your post make sence to me. Don´t know where right or wrong is in the eyes of the law, but we can all agree that the young tourist boys tend to rent vehicles they really should not drive. With complete lack of skills and experience they gas up a jetski or a motorbike or atv or whatever. Quite often being drunk aswell. Who´s fault is the whole thing? Don´t know, but in Sweden we always "blame it on the french", hahaha!

Kidding aside, thread is about Tp and i´m surpriced they don´t answer. Is there really not a touristpolice among the members? What is going on? Are you closed down?

[SamuiJens]

If I rent a car and the owner calls me back and i forget to apply the brakes and smash into his shop who's fault is that ?

If I rent a car and the owner calls me back and tells me not to apply the brakes and I smash into his shop, who's fault is that ?

That would be your fault, lawyer, since who could be that STUPID?

[Mark Wolfe]

Tony121 wrote:

...if the thai guy had to go out there to get them they were most probably doing something wrong...

I am constantly amazed at how people can apparently read a post yet not comprehend what was written. Is the following English not clear enough for you:

As the Thai came into earshot, he yelled that he forgot something on the rented jet ski.

Let me translate: The Thai man had forgotten something on the jet ski that the Frenchman had just rented. He went out on the water to get whatever it was he had forgotten.

Seriously, did you even read my post or just look at some of the words?

Funfun wrote:

...he didnt say turn it off where it is (the chainsaw in my example), did he, he sais turn it off, that means make it safe and shut it down, same as a car or a jetski,...

No, he said turn it off right then and now.

Here is the crux: Renting a jet ski can be done by anyone without regard to their skill level at motoring such a craft. I, for example, could rent a jet ski right now if I wanted and I have never even sat on one in my life. It wouldn't have occurred to me that a jet ski didn't turn when the engine is off (and although to be honest it seems that I have heard of this, I am certain that if the owner of the jet ski and presumptive professional told me to kill the engine, I would.)

If you want to make sure of safety, why wouldn't the Thai operator of the rentals have done what one of the French boys said: "If he was a professional, he would have been able come alongside of me easily without me having to do anything besides stopping."

It's obvious that the operator should be the competent and more skilled driver of the craft and it should be his responsibility to make a safe docking of the two crafts.

Look, we've all seen these guys renting jet skis. They're just a bunch of hodads. However, they do know how to drive their jet skis, better they themselves would probably argue, than the white-skinned, blue-eyed sojourners who are on the island for a few days for holiday.

Having said that, it's an interesting situation, and one that has nothing to do with "the old argument of 'if he told you to jump of a cliff would you?'" as Tony121 so gracefully put it. Everyone knows what the result is if you jump off a cliff. It is far from obvious that stopping the engine of a jet ski renders it unsteerable.

If I am mixing chemicals with a chemist, and I trust her as a professional, when she says to mix A and B together I don't anticipate an explosion. If a professional tells me to stop the engine on the jet ski I am riding, I would have to defer to him.

To me this is a case where the Thai guy himself forgot the no engine, no turn rule. To then turn the blame back on the person he was directing is typically immature behavior. The Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it! He did it!"

Edited October 14, 2008 by Mark Wolfe

[SamuiJens]

If you're NOT a bar-room lawyer, you should start! You just don't stop, do you, just like the jet ski?!

[mattias33]

I would NEVER have 250 cc of power between (i´m litteraly here!) my legs that i have zero knowledge of how to handle. I´m sorry Mark wolf. I just can not find it in me to agree with you here. "Renters are bad, should have checked my ability". May so be it. But still. Sit yourelf on a vehicle and i still say it´s up to you to control it. There are somethings to get on a further discussion with in this case, but at the end of the day, if you do a bungyjump and hit the head, you gonna blame somebody for not messuring right? Some people do. And it may be right. I always try to control the situation myself, and if i feel somethings are left uncontrolled, i´ll pass the event. Mark, i do see how a couple of innocent friends of you got hurt here, and let´s be happy they where not badly hurt. Respect motor vehicles for what it is, it requires education. In Thailand anybody is allowed to drive anything, no matter skills. They dont have the tests and education-require we have in Europe. Here it´s up to the individual to sometimes say "i am not qualified to drive this thing". Coming from the controlled world of Europe it is easy to think "it´s allowed, that must mean i am qualified otherwise it would not be leagal for me to do this". Over here, government don´t do the thinking for you, you have to do it yourself.

Don´t put anything in your mouth that you would´nt swallow. Nobody is thinking for you here, you have to do the thinking yourself.

(in french i can´t even say it but basicly it means "stay in France and have good nights boys with boys and if ever in Thailand, stay in the room doing what french boys do (i dont know) in a room together and dont try to drive anything bigger than a bicycle!")

Seriously Mark. I´m sorry if the thread backfired, it is (the way i understand it?) suppose to be a call for tourist police, and now all of a sudden we are giving you a hard time for your friends guilt or not guilt. I dont have a clue where they stand leagally, but like i said earlier, they are french! .

No, kidding, but let´s stop defendig their stupid behavior, we all see they are crazy here, and get to the point. Where is the tourist police????

[mattias33]

Don´t put anything in your mouth that you would´nt swallow.

Pardon my "french"!!

[dotcom]

I can assure you that even if the TP had showed up the result would be. "Show me the rental agreement" "Does it say here you agree to pay for all damages?"

"OK you damaged the jetski - now you pay to have it repaired." FOR WHATEVER REASON!!!!!!!!!! (A fricking boulder falls out of the sky & damages the jetski, not your fault but you pay nevertheless).

Yes I am off topic.

However don't assume the TP are gonna take the side of the tourist in every situation.

Sounds to me like people looking foir someone else to blame for their own stupidity. Just MHO.

[Mark Wolfe]

No, I don't assume that the tourist police, should they actually exist, would side with the tourist. However, I hope that they could lend a reasonable hand in the situation, such as making sure that the damage is fairly assessed by an actual repairman (this wasn't done). This seems perfectly within the rights of any damages contract.

As for mattias33 ("I´m sorry Mark wolf." ...can you not even get my name right?), I find it hard to put all the blame on the renter when the Thai "business" allows and encourages anyone to drive their machines. Can I assume that the Thai operators have a valid business license? That they have a first aid kit handy and know how to use it? I mean if you want to assess culpability, you could look in many places, but that wasn't and isn't the point.

I would have been interested to see the tourist police, or perhaps the stylized version I have in my mind of them, mediate on behalf of the weaker party (that would be the tourist who doesn't speak the local language and is trying to deal with four seasoned-looking Thai men and two uniformed Thai policemen who are simply there to see that the situation doesn't spiral out of control [not to adjudicate in the interest of fairness]).

I would think that the raison d'être for tourist police is, basically, to protect the rights of tourists in a foreign country where, let's face it, they are ripe subjects for being taken advantage of.

[OnTheSnap]

I find it hard to put all the blame on the renter when the Thai "business" allows and encourages anyone to drive their machines. Can I assume that the Thai operators have a valid business license? That they have a first aid kit handy and know how to use it? I mean if you want to assess culpability, you could look in many places, but that wasn't and isn't the point.

This is exactly the reason people like to come to Thailand- it's "easy"- there are few rules compared to the West, especially when it comes to personal responsibility (this sure isn't a "Nanny State").

There are (basically) no restrictions when it comes to renting a vehicle (you don't even need a valid license to rent a superbike capable of exceeding 250kpm- all you need is cash).

The questions above show the responsibilities of the RENTER- it was the job of the two French men to actually read the rental contract they signed, to ask about insurance and responsibility in case of damage, to find out if the company was licensed, etc...- did they? I bet they didn't (at least not until after the incident)- yes, it's "easy" here- until it gets really difficult.

I completely agree that the jet-ski "company" is in the wrong, but anybody that's spent any time on this island knows who is behind those companies- they are obviously "protected", otherwise they would be unable to operate on a public beach.

Tourists go home with a story about getting ripped off in Thailand- the owners of the rental companies remain here and have to be dealt with on a daily basis, and can very likely make a problem for a policeman who doesn't see things their way- the police (who "probably" get compensated by the owners of these companies) are motivated to do what is in their own best interests- unfortunately that often equates to blatant injustice for the aggrieved party.

The bottom line is that unlicensed rental companies LOVE it when someone has an accident (car, bike, jet-ski, whatever)- the felonious rates they charge for a repair can equate to a full month's rental- this couldn't happen without collusion with the "powers that be"- as long as money is involved, things won't change.

Mr. Wolfe, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of this situation- you are also beating your head against the wall.

[MSingh]

Most sensible Post on this thread ^^, especially the last sentence..

[aka_jack]

i dont know all the facts of this case but which jet ski was damaged, if the thais he should pay! i think you will find the rental agreement says any damge to the rental jet ski and you pay all costs,( your jet ski) i am sure if the police where there and you pointed this out you would have some case to argue! He didnt damage his jet ski just the thais, if it was his friend who he crashed into i am sure his friend would be liable to cough up!