Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[farang000999]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

[farang000999]

Look back at history.

We have had the internet for only like 50 years.

I guess that means that the internet is going to gone soon.

Electricity and condoms as well.

[farang000999]

It's amazing how every single thing a gold bugs says can make absolutely no logical sense.

[mania]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

The USD became a Fiat Currency after 1971 when Nixon cancelled the convertibility of dollars into gold.

[mania]

Look back at history.

We have had the internet for only like 50 years.

I guess that means that the internet is going to gone soon.

Electricity and condoms as well.

It's amazing how every single thing a gold bugs says can make absolutely no logical sense.

You should stop embarrassing yourself

A person need not be a gold bug to be interested in historical facts pertaining to money, currencies etc.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mania

[midas]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

“There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”

-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

[yoshiwara]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

“There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”

-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Lenin was building a revolutionary party whereas you are a coin collector.

[Donnie Brasco]

20 1oz .999 gold Maples, 2 5oz. Perth Mint bars, a 10 oz. RCM bar

3 bumper boxes of 1oz. silver Maples, 5 100oz bars 10 kg pre 1963 US coins

What can go wrong there?

Why take a chance ?

[farang000999]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

The USD became a Fiat Currency after 1971 when Nixon cancelled the convertibility of dollars into gold.

So the US gov didn't "print money" during the civil war?

[mania]

Why don't you go ahead & tell the class the average lifespan of any fiat or the

longest any single fiat currency ever survived?

The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?

The USD became a Fiat Currency after 1971 when Nixon cancelled the convertibility of dollars into gold.

So the US gov didn't "print money" during the civil war?

Actually a good example against your statement of

"The USD has made it through countless wars and survived. Why should this crisis be any different?"

As during the Civil war they did not have enough real money which backed/empowered the dollar of the day to pay for their overspending

so temporarily suspended the convertibility of the dollar into the true money that backed it. Basically making the "good as gold" USD a fiat

at that time, albeit temporarily.

These were Fiat notes & not convertible on demand & were called "greenbacks"

But all of this again goes against the claim you made & the even sillier claim PCA made that gold

never was & would never be money.

Personally I do not know or care if gold ever became the measure of a dollar note ever again.

But to say it never was is silly.

I actually agree with part of your first statement...

"Anything can be traded or bartered. So everything is money now?"

It has pretty much always been so. In fact a good argument could be that labor was the first money.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mania

[farang000999]

like i said, the USA made it through several wars going into very high debt and having periods where they decoupled from gold... and everything worked out in the end.

Saying that fiat money is only x years old is rather silly considering how quickly technology and society has moved forward.

fiat money is a good invention.

the gold standard was a big factor in the great depression.

look at what the equivilant of a gold standard is doing to Europe.

And gold bugs say

"The dollar lost 99% of it's value to inflation"... and if you would have invested that money instead would it have beaten inflation - YES

[mania]

like i said, the USA made it through several wars going into very high debt and having periods where they decoupled from gold... and everything worked out in the end.

fiat money is a good invention.

That Civil war was the one & only war they decoupled as you say & went back to gold.

Everything worked out in the end? This is what you call worked out?

http://oddhammer.com/tutorials/debt_clock/US_debt_clock_dynamic.swf

Yeah good invention for folks that want to spend others futures on wars today etc.

As I said'

"Personally I do not know or care if gold ever became the measure of a dollar note ever again.

But to say it never was is silly."

I am not here to argue a return to a gold standard. I was only replying to yours & PCA's earlier statement.

I do not think this thread was about the gold standard etc was it?

Edited May 25, 2013 by mania

[yoshiwara]

As during the Civil war they did not have enough real money which backed/empowered the dollar of the day to pay for their overspending

so temporarily suspended the convertibility of the dollar into the true money that backed it. Basically making the "good as gold" USD a fiat

at that time, albeit temporarily.

These were Fiat notes & not convertible on demand & were called "greenbacks"

No doubt there were idiots around at that time protesting that they shouldn't have.

[midas]

As during the Civil war they did not have enough real money which backed/empowered the dollar of the day to pay for their overspending

so temporarily suspended the convertibility of the dollar into the true money that backed it. Basically making the "good as gold" USD a fiat

at that time, albeit temporarily.

These were Fiat notes & not convertible on demand & were called "greenbacks"

No doubt there were idiots around at that time protesting that they shouldn't have.

It says so much about you ( and we knew full well already) that you equate fiscal discipline and responsibility to being an idiot

[fletchsmile]

At the moment the gold markets are being driven largely by paper gold and gold derivatives (futures contracts). The merits of physical gold aren't much in play for now.

In the same way these factors contributed to driving up gold, they are now driving it down - far more than physical, which is actually seeing more buying.

This is part of the biggest problems of investing in gold: it's driven now by sentiment and speculation not by underlying fundamentals. Even its fundamental as a store of value is often a negative trait, i.e when other fundamental assets are suffering gold gains from it.

At the moment there a lot of short positions in the futures markets. There's a good chance that these will continue for a while, but at the point they start to reverse, there'll be a very significant buying opportunity... trouble is that point is very hard to predict...

So I still hold some paper gold for diversification, and have little appetite to add at this stage, until there's a clearer picture... watching for a buy though...

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 25, 2013 by fletchsmile

[midas]

Gold And The Fiat End-Game

Edited May 26, 2013 by midas

[yoshiwara]

At the moment the gold markets are being driven largely by paper gold and gold derivatives (futures contracts). The merits of physical gold aren't much in play for now.

In the same way these factors contributed to driving up gold, they are now driving it down - far more than physical, which is actually seeing more buying.

This is part of the biggest problems of investing in gold: it's driven now by sentiment and speculation not by underlying fundamentals. Even its fundamental as a store of value is often a negative trait, i.e when other fundamental assets are suffering gold gains from it.

At the moment there a lot of short positions in the futures markets. There's a good chance that these will continue for a while, but at the point they start to reverse, there'll be a very significant buying opportunity... trouble is that point is very hard to predict...

So I still hold some paper gold for diversification, and have little appetite to add at this stage, until there's a clearer picture... watching for a buy though...

Cheers

Fletch

The myth of gold coins being a different story is a myth being vigorously flogged by the gold bugs. Take your oz of gold coin into the gold shop and ask them how much. Retail trade buying because the price is down. Pretty obvious that one would have thought. Edited May 26, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Naam]

Gold And The Fiat End-Game

presented to you by yewtoob-master Midas.

[farang000999]

Wow 17 trillion is a huge number, unless you consider total national assets of $100 trillion. Oh yeah, and the 1% financing!

And the fact the US healthcare system spends almost twice what other countries spend or that easing immigration to the USA could create large revenue increases or that revenues are down significantly because the economy is so terrible.

but just ignore all reasoning and go "17 trillion very big! Better buy gold and canned beans."

forget about the internet, iphones, curing AIDS, fast cars, airplanes, fancy hotel swimming pools... what the world really wants to do is return to the 1800's when we had REAL MONEY. and the FREE MARKET will achieve that no matter what, hyperinflation looms. plant some veggies really fast!

[fletchsmile]

Wow 17 trillion is a huge number, unless you consider total national assets of $100 trillion. Oh yeah, and the 1% financing!

And the fact the US healthcare system spends almost twice what other countries spend or that easing immigration to the USA could create large revenue increases or that revenues are down significantly because the economy is so terrible.

but just ignore all reasoning and go "17 trillion very big! Better buy gold and canned beans."

forget about the internet, iphones, curing AIDS, fast cars, airplanes, fancy hotel swimming pools... what the world really wants to do is return to the 1800's when we had REAL MONEY. and the FREE MARKET will achieve that no matter what, hyperinflation looms. plant some veggies really fast!

....don't forget to remind them they also need to buy a gun or two, and keep a guard dog as the world will be in anarchy ....

[Sandman77]

Today I found. A very interesting report!

It's called the myth about the thai gold!

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://udon-news.com/de/gold/thaigold-mythos-und-fakten&usg=ALkJrhil9DVJnkhnfozVz-kAFYfPA_snkQ

[mccw]

"""In April Russia and Kazakhstan increased their gold reserves for the seventh straight month, buying low as market is still in a slump.

Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Belarus, Azerbaijan, and Greece all increased their gold reserves last month, whereas Mexico and Canada decreased.

Russia has continued as the worlds top gold buyer, and seventh largest holder in the world, with 990 tons, up 3.4 percent from last year, according to IMF data.

Kazakhstan increased its holdings up to 125.5 tons, an increase of 8.9 percent, continuing a 10 month streak, and Belarus expanded for a 7th straight month.

Mexico and Canada reduced their holdings.

Prices will likely to remain steady through the day as both the US and UK trading floors are closed for public holidays.

US gold futures for June delivery rose 0.4 percent to $1,391.80 an ounce.

The US Mint sold almost 210,000 ounces of gold last month, the highest level since 2009, which has made gold traders slightly more bullish, following the bear market plunge on April 12 and the biggest two day drop since 1983. Gold still remains down nearly 17% this year. ?

Physical demand for the metal remained strong in Asia, after gold bars hit a record high as supplies contracted.

July's silver Comex for delivery fell 0.48 percent to $22.388 an ounce while copper for July delivery dropped 0.18 percent to $3.289 per ounce."""

-rt

And when checking I saw this at the guernsey mint :

http://www.guernseymint.com/c/4/silver-bars

Supply / delivery delays in the midst of a bear market/ big slump

Obviously its doesn't add up and what we are seeing is a straining of the paper and physical markets. Who knows if or when it will break but the signs are there that the two a now quite different, pulling in opposite directions.

[mccw]

Like Mr "Browns bottom" of 08 I think we can assume its Canada's turn to inject the physical gold in to the market place

[Naam]

When most analysts talk about gold, the analysis almost inevitably turns
to a technical review of the charts. The reason for this is because
gold is simply a piece of yellow metal, and beyond the highly subjective
and difficult supply, demand and production cost analysis, there aren't
many good ways to value gold other than what the market is willing to
pay for it. How else can you explain the same item selling for over $700
in the late 70's, under $300 in the early 2000's, over $1,900 two years
ago and under $1,400 today? Gold doesn't really get used up in making
jewelry or other industrial processes, it mostly just sits in vaults and
basements taking up space and "storing" an ever-changing value of
wealth. Depending on which decade you visited your vault or basement
stash, gold could have either made you rich, or sent you to the
poorhouse. Some analysts will say there is only one way to value gold,
and that is through quantifying "sentiment."

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1454401-gold-liquidation-now-accelerating?source=email_rt_mc_focus_1

[/quote]

[ronz28]

World population has doubled since about 1970 so there are a lot more holders of Gold now creating more demand. However, Gold like virtually all other asset classes has its on cycles that change with the many variables that drive price, so trends must be followed and investments adjusted to stay with the trend. I mostly use chart patterns and trend following using Keltner channels, 8 and 20 day simple moving averages (adjusted for 30 minute vs. daily charts, etc.) depending on how often I want to trade.

[cheeryble]

For human adornment I value human artistry (say carving) on stones....not expensive stones,,,,,much more than I could ever value the glitter of gold or diamonds, which I consider vulgar (especially glitter-cut gold as sold in Thailand, and diamonds are even worse, ghastly).

Some day the world will follow as I am the archetype of good taste.

Edited May 29, 2013 by cheeryble

[Naam]

the shorters are trying very hard:

[Naam]

For human adornment I value human artistry (say carving) on stones....not expensive stones,,,,,much more than I could ever value the glitter of gold or diamonds, which I consider vulgar (especially glitter-cut gold as sold in Thailand, and diamonds are even worse, ghastly). Some day the world will follow as I am the archetype of good taste.

vulgar diamonds are a girl's best friends

[mccw]

For human adornment I value human artistry (say carving) on stones....not expensive stones,,,,,much more than I could ever value the glitter of gold or diamonds, which I consider vulgar (especially glitter-cut gold as sold in Thailand, and diamonds are even worse, ghastly).Some day the world will follow as I am the archetype of good taste.

Your just calling out gold and diamond as vulgar because of your own dislike of the socio economic connotations that the materials have; but actually "craftsmanship and artistry" are things which can be appreciated what ever the material medium. View from the eyes or taste are just as subjective as ever.

[cheeryble]

Your just calling out gold and diamond as vulgar because of your own dislike of the socio economic connotations that the materials have; but actually "craftsmanship and artistry" are things which can be appreciated what ever the material medium. View from the eyes or taste are just as subjective as ever.

Take it from me they're vulgar.....like coloured toilet paper.

Edited June 2, 2013 by cheeryble