Abrak Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 please let us know your definition of a "bank failure" Flying. and Britmaverick could tell us what it means when "banks fall like dominos". talk is cheap and i repeat that both of you have no bloody idea as far as european banks are concerned. i admit that i have no bloody idea how to grow rice but then i don't advice rice farmers how to do it. Mind you, you do refer to investing in equities as a highly speculative/ casino sort of thing. I rather believe the whole banking model - whereby you leverage your balance sheet 10x and give money to people for a paltry fee as speculative at best. Mind you I am bias by Thailand where (if you looked it up in a Thai dictionary) it will say that a loan is a gift to be repaid at the benefactors discretion. I reckon banking is rather like airlines a value destructive business only that governments absorb losses and creditors and shareholders take profits. It is sort of strange that say lending to a bank is more profitable than a bank lending in most cases. And, in any case, to the extent that banks have a value creative business model, it is based solely on ripping off depositors (as well as ripping off governments). So admittedly I fall into the 'no bloody idea' camp but the whole thing is a mystery to me (as is rice farming). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 This is the Gold thread <deleted>, not the carsh of the Euro thread. Link When money becomes worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 i know you all called us stupid for keeping gold but my gold is looking real pretty now, up 29.9%. i don't think anybody called you stupid. a more fitting expression is "uninformed" respectively "inexperienced" because +29.9% in 16 months is nothing to rave about when compared with yields one could achieve with other investments during the "crisis" period. to me it seems Americans can only think in $$$ and don't care what delicacies are served in other denominations and assets besides $$$ and gold. besides, is it wise to look at a 30% plus in dollars within a rather short period but forget that the Baht (which is the "expense currency" for most of us) strenghtened 21/30% (depending whether percentages are calculated from up or down) vs. the dollar during the last four years? i therefore ask "where's the beef?" and "is it really looking real pretty?" I'm guilty of that to a certain extent. I can't identify readily (taking all possible risks into consideration) non $USD opportunites as readily as I can $USD opportunities. I DO take the $USD proceeds and diversify into other asset classes and currencies, but I do admit the engine that allows for that has been USD centric. I hedge it where I can and "preserved" about 65% of it's value in this last drop, but it sure is a lot of work and it makes my gut hurt sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognos Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ok - Articles like these are part of the reason I dumped my gold last week. The goldbugs are out in force (or should I say sat in their bunkers, with shotgun, bottled water and a pile of gold bars). But outside of the sky is falling crowd there doesn't seem to be much support for gold. The $ appreciation has blind-sided gold. Without the $ driver gold is being sucked under by the great commodity de-leveraging. Seasonal demand is marked down (Joe Public in India, China) due to recession. A surprise there would strengthen price. Next years impending major bankruptcies also could spike Gold up. So the direction is down. pessimism is not good..gold will rise and fall..make money as you wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognos Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 i know you all called us stupid for keeping gold but my gold is looking real pretty now, up 29.9%. i don't think anybody called you stupid. a more fitting expression is "uninformed" respectively "inexperienced" because +29.9% in 16 months is nothing to rave about when compared with yields one could achieve with other investments during the "crisis" period. to me it seems Americans can only think in $$$ and don't care what delicacies are served in other denominations and assets besides $$$ and gold. besides, is it wise to look at a 30% plus in dollars within a rather short period but forget that the Baht (which is the "expense currency" for most of us) strenghtened 21/30% (depending whether percentages are calculated from up or down) vs. the dollar during the last four years? i therefore ask "where's the beef?" and "is it really looking real pretty?" I'm guilty of that to a certain extent. I can't identify readily (taking all possible risks into consideration) non $USD opportunites as readily as I can $USD opportunities. I DO take the $USD proceeds and diversify into other asset classes and currencies, but I do admit the engine that allows for that has been USD centric. I hedge it where I can and "preserved" about 65% of it's value in this last drop, but it sure is a lot of work and it makes my gut hurt sometimes. it goes without saying that no other currency offers the wide range of investment possibilities which is offered in USD. i'd like to hold dollar denominated assets again (presently zero) but the only hedge i really like and which is most rewarding in these days is financing in the same currency. unfortunately that would void the state guarantees which cover my rather high cash quota. life is difficult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatree Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... And a share certificate or a wad of notes would be useful on an uninhabited island to wipe your arse with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Have to agree with Naam - gold is worthless in the big scheme of life. If it all disappeared tomorrow - would it really matter to anyone? (apart from the gold bugs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... Nicely put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... All people stranded on an uninhabited island please raise their hands. None. Right. All people who've made a few bob out of gold in the past year please raise their hands. Millions. If you were stranded on an uninhabited island and had loads of pounds, dollars, yen or euros, would you be any better off? Course you wouldn't, so I don't see the point you're trying to make, except for the fact that you don't like investing in gold and consider that no one else should. A fine example of Naam pomposity. Perhaps we should all carry pumpkins, bananas, potatoes, apples and oranges around with us just in case we end up as castaways. I should imagine there are bags of spelling mistakes there to get your teeth into. Or better still, break the habit of a lifetime and actually try to help someone occasionally instead of making caustic comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Have to agree with Naam - gold is worthless in the big scheme of life. If it all disappeared tomorrow - would it really matter to anyone? (apart from the gold bugs) Why has the government of China bought hundreds of tons of it since 2003 ? why are central banks around the world purchasing gold ? why am I trying to educate somebody that has no clue how the financial system works ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 It's worthless mate!!! (just shiny metal people have fallen in love with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... Why do central banks hold thousands of tons of gold ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 ^again because people love the shiny yellow metal. Can't use it for anything of value on its own merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 It's worthless mate!!! (just shiny metal people have fallen in love with) We do need brain dead fools to make the world go round. Good to see that you know your role. Lets try this again................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Again for the unintelligent muppets on here - GOLD is worthless in the big scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Again for the unintelligent muppets on here - GOLD Fiat is worthless in the big scheme of things. Fixed it for you Sounds just as silly doesn't it? The world has shown in the course of history Golds worth & they show their decision over & over again. The same cannot be said for Fiat all of which have failed at some point in history. Edited October 14, 2009 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up having a good conductor is most important when stranded on an uninhabitated island. one can conduct wild boars from the woods on to the charcoal, conduct fish from the sea to a tree where they can dry, necessary is only a little conducting of salt from the sea water on to the fish to preserve them, gold can most probably conduct drinking water from the ground and perhaps a one kilo bar placed at certain locations of the island can conduct an artesian well for having showers... Why do central banks hold thousands of tons of gold ? to the best of my knowledge there are no central banks located or stranded on uninhabitated islands. an enigma for me is that some people are able to type whole sentences but are not able to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Why do central banks hold thousands of tons of gold ?to the best of my knowledge there are no central banks located or stranded on uninhabitated islands. an enigma for me is that some people are able to type whole sentences but are not able to read Apparently they will pay you a premium if take your gold contract in fiat rather then the physical gold. You should buy some gold futures :D and take delivery in fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Apparently they will pay you a premium if take your gold contract in fiat rather then the physical gold. You know I recently read that too. But could not remember where the article was when I went to quote it to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Why do central banks hold thousands of tons of gold ?to the best of my knowledge there are no central banks located or stranded on uninhabitated islands. an enigma for me is that some people are able to type whole sentences but are not able to read Apparently they will pay you a premium if take your gold contract in fiat rather then the physical gold. You should buy some gold futures :D and take delivery in fiat. you still are not able to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) stranded on uninhabitated islands. Oxymoron? Now if you said stranded on a previously uninhabited island Then again it is all fantasy island isn't it? Because the only folks that say gold has no value ....have no gold All those stranded on a previously uninhabited island raise your hand....errrr shoot a flare ...or something Edited October 15, 2009 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? Well I have an idea for a start up company. I am going to charter rescue boats & accept gold & silver as payment Then we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ? Why does every financial forum I go to have a gold thread that never seems to go away ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ? Why does every financial forum I go to have a gold thread that never seems to go away ? nobody has gone broke investing in gold PROVIDED he/she had sufficient other income to pay for living expenses. a more important question is "how many people made a living by investing in gold over an extended period of time?" gold threads in financial forums are quite normal. this world has a lot of dreamers who hope to win the jackpot in the lottery. of course that does not apply to only to gold but a variety of other assets too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penefattore Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward. i said STEP FORWARD! why is nobody stepping forward? How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ? I remember in the early 80's the heirs of a billionaire went broke speculating (with leverage) on silver.Can't recall the names and the facts, but I think this long term silver chart explains what happened by itself http://www.futuresbuzz.com/silverlt.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Fair Value Gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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