Pad Rallies At British Embassy In Bangkok

[younghusband]

as for the current government, it is a PPP-led coalition... not a "large majority winner".... to which all TAWP did was throw the BS flag at and then you responded... which prompted all the other responses....

The governments of Thaksin, Samak and Somchai commanded large majorities.I agree Giles should have said this or something similar, but it's not really the main point.Do you agree the current government is legitimate (having formed a coalition representing most Thais) or was the signing in ceremony a dishonest fraud?

Will you give a straight answer or not?

Sure... I just wish your statements were straight from the beginning and didn't require a dozen posts by several posters to actually get at what you're saying, which is quite different from the beginning.

I haven't any idea where all this "dishonest fraud" at the "signing-in ceremony" is coming from as no one has mentioned it, except yourself.

As to whether this government is legitimate, we'll know soon enough after the Constitution Court decides if it is or not.

As expected no straight answer.Just the usual mix of sophistry,slightly limited intelligence and good old fashioned dishonesty.

The signing in ceremony is simply the constitutional approval by HM.Do you continue to have a problem with this?

[sriracha john]

as for the current government, it is a PPP-led coalition... not a "large majority winner".... to which all TAWP did was throw the BS flag at and then you responded... which prompted all the other responses....

The governments of Thaksin, Samak and Somchai commanded large majorities.I agree Giles should have said this or something similar, but it's not really the main point.Do you agree the current government is legitimate (having formed a coalition representing most Thais) or was the signing in ceremony a dishonest fraud?

Will you give a straight answer or not?

Sure... I just wish your statements were straight from the beginning and didn't require a dozen posts by several posters to actually get at what you're saying, which is quite different from the beginning.

I haven't any idea where all this "dishonest fraud" at the "signing-in ceremony" is coming from as no one has mentioned it, except yourself.

As to whether this government is legitimate, we'll know soon enough after the Constitution Court decides if it is or not.

As expected no straight answer.Just the usual mix of sophistry,slightly limited intelligence and good old fashioned dishonesty.

The signing in ceremony is simply the constitutional approval by HM.Do you continue to have a problem with this?

And as repeated on countless other occasions the usual mix of derogatory and inflammatory overly personal-directed retorts....when faced with the losing end of a discussion..

You asked if the government is legitimate, I gave you my response. At this moment, it is tending to look quite illegitimate based upon past concurrence of Constitution Court agreements of Election Commission findings, which are that the PPP-led coalition government is not legitimate. Still, I'll await Courts findings before declaring absolutely that is illegitimate. Until then, it's undetermined.

Edited October 31, 2008 by sriracha john

[bulmercke]

Please provide photographic evidence of PAD protesters being handed money. There are thousands of cameras there every single day and night. Shouldn't be hard for you anti PAD rumour mongers to provide. Also some one point me to the line the protesters stand in to get their money, I have many friends who go there and they will be upset to learn that everyone else is being paid except for them.

I don't think anyone seriously believes individual PAD demonstrators are being paid to protest.

What is widely believed, and in fact cannot be contested, is that PAD has access to very substantial funding indeed.This and its mysterious immunity from being subject to the law has been widely reported, and again isn't seriously disputed.

Good point younghusband -

Where does this funding come from?

And why is the PAD - in all respects - immune from being subject to the laws of the land?

The million dollar questions - me thinks -

Well certain quarters impugn that is from a sinister source.

It is clearly multiple sources aligned around a center.

It no doubt was at some point realized that Dr. T.

was a VERY loose cannon on the ship of state,

and was going to run EVERYONE on the rocks.

Temasek was his final straw.

He had been tolerated, but as his metal instability and arrogance expanded, along

with his authoritarian control of most all dissent, it took only to one match to light his pire.

He struck it with the Temasek deal, and threw on gas himself with the tax avoidance.

There is ONLY ONE person to blame for all this Mr. Moneybags himself.

The damage to democracy caused by the necessary steps to wrest back control

are regrettable, but it can never be a regression to feudal times,

it is just another Thai style side step to clean up some dung dropped in the street.

A big PPPile for sure.

The cure will not be as bad as would be the disease if ignored, but like with cancer

sometimes you have to cut deep and then let it heal.

Right now the knife is out and not finished with surgery...

But don't doubt the medical teams resolve to finish and cut out this festering wound

and malignant tumor for well and good. If not the patient dies grotesquely.

The patient was sentient and ambulatory before it will be again.

PAD is one of the scalpels, but far from the only one in use.

Pardon the rampaging metaphors, but they were apropo.

You got it!

Edited October 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[sjaak327]

All this disucssion about majority is funny. Whatever you say, the current PPP government (together with other coalition parties) has a clear majority. Simply because combined the hold the most seats, and that's how democracy works in most countries.

Before TRT had this majority by itself (2005 elections), that I guess is what that quoted writer meant.

And of course the current government is still legitimate. regardless of the opinion of the EC, until that has been handled in a court of law, it should be business as usual.

Which countries do you know, in which the three largest coalition partners get dissolved due to vote buying?

None (but that might be my lack of knowledge). So far the same applies for Thailand.

Of course the 2001 and 2005 elections were being viewed as elections where vote buying wasn't rampant. So to explain Thaksin's popularity based on vote buying alone is besides the reality.

[bulmercke]

Please provide photographic evidence of PAD protesters being handed money. There are thousands of cameras there every single day and night. Shouldn't be hard for you anti PAD rumour mongers to provide. Also some one point me to the line the protesters stand in to get their money, I have many friends who go there and they will be upset to learn that everyone else is being paid except for them.

DP25 - spot-on -

Again - PAD supporters are not paid to be there - I don't know how many more times we'll be required to reiterate this?

Obviously you will both have to keep reiterating "this" until you stop beleiving that these people aren't PAID..........

Many people have family and freinds that have been paid or offered money from PAD!!!!!!

Not all protesters but a large number are PAID......

WAKE UP.

Some of my experiences:

Here in Chiang mai are many people pro PAD but they are afraid of raising their voice because of the aggressive government supporters. Many of these people, my wife included have send money to support the PAD. I never heard these people talk about killing people but they think Taksin and his family and cronies are crooks and thieves, that's why they want this government out.

A neighbor who is pro government said after my wife asked her opinion that they had to throw a bomb into government house to kill all these PAD supporters. All these pro government supporters like to see blood.

I have been to Korat to visit my wife's family and in the village they are all anti PAD. They don't watch TV or read newspapers but listen to the kamnan, phu yai and the monks(they are getting paid for sure). They know for sure (because they've been told) that the PAD supporters get paid but don't have proof.

In the bigger cities in Khorat you see more PAD supporters because they can read newspapers and watch non government TV. They told me to know many people who go to Bangkok to join the PAD without payments because they are fed up with the corrupt government and Thaksin.

I don't like Sondhi but dislike Taksin more and it's not just Sondhi in the PAD, there's also chamlong. I also don't like all the ideas of chamlong but I know for sure he's not there for the money or power. If he has money he shares it and he lives a totally different live as this spoiled shinawatra's. Taksin can complain that he's working that hard always(playing golf and eating sharkfinsoup). I would like to see Thaksin one week working in the ricefield then he will know what hard working is.

If you like blood then you choose red.

That's because there is NO proof - PAD supporters camped out at Government House receive support - but there are no financial incentives paid to induce and maintain continued support - I.E. Pad supporters are not paid off simply to be there -

[bulmercke]

PAD calls on Army to deploy soldiers to protect protesters

The People's Alliance for Democracy Friday called on the Army deploy military police to protect its PAD supporters from attacks by its opponents.

Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD co-leader, said the PAD only wants three or four military police to be deployed at each road checkpoint of the PAD to help keep security for the demonstrators.

He said the PAD was willing to pay for the special allowance of the soldiers and take care of their foods.

"But if the Army does not help us, it'll be fine. We'll be able to take care of ourselves," Chamlong said.

Source: The Nation - 31 October 2008

This is a good point. If the military is so interested in maintaining peace between the PAD and the UDD - then why are there no military posted at PAD checkpoints?

[Plus]

I can't believe people spent so much time on that lunatic Giles.

YH, you called PAD fascist, again, and said in your support that Giles somehow nailed it - but I don't see any kind of proof in his statement, only strongly worded rhetoric.

As for legitimacy - why are you throwing legal books at us? We all know that PPP and its partners committed serious fraud in last elections. They ought to dissolved for that, everybody knew the new set of laws - keep party execs clean or face the music.

In PPP's case we are not talking about some desperate MP hopeful trying to squeeze past his rivals, we are talking about future House Speaker openly bribing dozens of local pooyais representing millions of voters. And we all know he wasn't the only one doing that - it's PPPs modus operandi, he was only unlucky he got caught.

We know how they win the elections - with buying and bribing local leaders, it doesn't matter if Thaksin is still popular or not - they've got to be punished for their wrongdoing. In a few months time the curtain will close on this circus, and on all your claims to legitimacy, too.

People obviously feel no shame in boasting about PPP and Co large victory while their political lives hang by the thread. It's just as repulsive as Samak's self aggrandisement: "I'm the elected PM, show some respect, everyone should respect me, bla bla bla". In the end the <deleted> was caught giving fake payslips to the court, among other things.

And does anyone care to remember that PPP needed a month of arm twisting to lure other parties into ruling coaltion, and it had to agree to numerous conditions, basically dumping pro-Thaksin agenda, because that's not what the would be partners promised to their voters. Joining PPP was a big turn around for many of them, starting with Banharn and Snoh.

But you pretend none of that has ever happened, and it was PPP and Thaksin who won a large majority.

Can you at least be honest with yourselves, people?

I feel like I'm a nanny picking up this shit you leave all over the place. Why don't you grow up and accept responsibility for your own words once in a while?

[jdinasia]

I'm not sure how I can make myself much clearer on the "majority" issue.Most of my Thai friends sympathetic to PAD who think I am off beam on my political views have never actually questioned the electoral legitimacy of Thaksin, Samak or Somchai under the current rules.Some members of this forum do and I think that's just plain silly.I respect the intellectual integrity of people like Plus who argue the case for changing the rules, but under the existing rules the current bunch (ok fairly unsavoury I concede) hold office legitimately.

It's been said already, but look at what happened both before and after the elections you are discussing.

The TRT party machine buying votes and asserting influence on village bosses etc (in effect buying even more votes) led to elections being dissolved a LARGE political party being disbanded ... the ouster of 2 PM's, a coup, court cases galore etc ... the creation of a new proxy-TRT, the EC stating that the new proxy PPP should be disbanded etc etc etc ...

Now ... please tell me about legitimacy etc ....

as for Giles .... his comments are typical of someone trying to hide the truth behind rhetoric

[AlKing]

PAD calls on Army to deploy soldiers to protect protesters

The People's Alliance for Democracy Friday called on the Army deploy military police to protect its PAD supporters from attacks by its opponents.

Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD co-leader, said the PAD only wants three or four military police to be deployed at each road checkpoint of the PAD to help keep security for the demonstrators.

He said the PAD was willing to pay for the special allowance of the soldiers and take care of their foods.

"But if the Army does not help us, it'll be fine. We'll be able to take care of ourselves," Chamlong said.

Source: The Nation - 31 October 2008

This is a good point. If the military is so interested in maintaining peace between the PAD and the UDD - then why are there no military posted at PAD checkpoints?

Chamlong said it himself :PAD was willing to pay for the special allowance. Just like PAD pay for the majority of the people there. Did I hear 90% get 300 to 500 Baht per day tax free PLUS food and lodging?

Coming from the horse mouth. Caught red handed. On the record. Cannot be denined. SO STOP CLAIMING THAT PAD PROTESTERS IS NOT PAID.

[JetsetBkk]

90% of the PAD protesters are also bought. And PAD does not advocate Democracy for all only for the self righteous...get a clue!

This is a big lie, simply

All PAD supporters are there because of their own volition - they are not there simply because someone is paying them to be there. ....

All? Every single one? Are you sure? If I've told you once, I've told you a million times - don't exaggerate!

[thailand_tom]

what's next open season on british expats and tourists !

[jdinasia]

what's next open season on british expats and tourists !

I couldn't in good conscience want to see that happen ...... after all there are one or two that are decent!

But have you heard of any serious injuries or threats against UK passport holders because of Thaksin hiding there? No?

then drop the hyperbole

[h90]

All this disucssion about majority is funny. Whatever you say, the current PPP government (together with other coalition parties) has a clear majority. Simply because combined the hold the most seats, and that's how democracy works in most countries.

Before TRT had this majority by itself (2005 elections), that I guess is what that quoted writer meant.

And of course the current government is still legitimate. regardless of the opinion of the EC, until that has been handled in a court of law, it should be business as usual.

Which countries do you know, in which the three largest coalition partners get dissolved due to vote buying?

None (but that might be my lack of knowledge). So far the same applies for Thailand.

Of course the 2001 and 2005 elections were being viewed as elections where vote buying wasn't rampant. So to explain Thaksin's popularity based on vote buying alone is besides the reality.

2001 and 2005 are well know for massive vote buying. But I agree that he would have won the 2005 without vote buying.

But the would or would not is not important. Now he is a criminal on the run. His snap election was as well full of fraud.

[h90]

PAD calls on Army to deploy soldiers to protect protesters

The People's Alliance for Democracy Friday called on the Army deploy military police to protect its PAD supporters from attacks by its opponents.

Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD co-leader, said the PAD only wants three or four military police to be deployed at each road checkpoint of the PAD to help keep security for the demonstrators.

He said the PAD was willing to pay for the special allowance of the soldiers and take care of their foods.

"But if the Army does not help us, it'll be fine. We'll be able to take care of ourselves," Chamlong said.

Source: The Nation - 31 October 2008

This is a good point. If the military is so interested in maintaining peace between the PAD and the UDD - then why are there no military posted at PAD checkpoints?

Chamlong said it himself :PAD was willing to pay for the special allowance. Just like PAD pay for the majority of the people there. Did I hear 90% get 300 to 500 Baht per day tax free PLUS food and lodging?

Coming from the horse mouth. Caught red handed. On the record. Cannot be denined. SO STOP CLAIMING THAT PAD PROTESTERS IS NOT PAID.

My english is not very good, so I may missunderstood, but I did not read "PAD is willing to pay a special allowance to join the protests"!

I read here only that they are willing to pay the extra costs the army may has if they put some security. Like they pay the loudspeaker or the diesel they use.

[jdinasia]

I have him in ignore for pulling that stunt earlier in the thread .... granted he may not read English well ... but that is 100% disingenuous

[endure]

A post referring to the Monarchy has been removed. Please note:

"No disrespect of the King of Thailand or The Thai Royal Family! Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden."

There will be no further warnings about this.

[AlKing]

Allowance = Money.

[Guest Bellini]

I had an interesting discussion with a Thai businesswoman yesterday, summarised as follows:

* Why are Thai people demonstrating at the British embassy?

– Because Thaksin lives in England. He is a criminal and should be in prison in Thailand.

* Did the Thai government ask for his extradition and the British government refused?

– No. Thaksin controls the Thai government and it won’t force him to return to Thailand.

* Should the Thai people then not demonstrate against the Thai government?

– They did, even occupied the whole government building, it is was of no use. That’s why the people now demonstrate at the British embassy, to vent their frustrations. Thaksin lives comfortably in London, when he should be in prison in Thailand. I am going to boycott Tesco and Lotus and all British products.

At this point, I changed the subject.

[Plus]

Boyocotting "enemy" business is a normal reaction. Anyone remember "freedom fries"? And that was the bastion of democracy - the US Congress. I won't be surpised that they occasionally boycott politically tainted goods in the UK, too. Blood diamonds or something similar.

[jitagon]

I had an interesting discussion with a Thai businesswoman yesterday, summarised as follows:

* Why are Thai people demonstrating at the British embassy?

– Because Thaksin lives in England. He is a criminal and should be in prison in Thailand.

* Did the Thai government ask for his extradition and the British government refused?

– No. Thaksin controls the Thai government and it won’t force him to return to Thailand.

* Should the Thai people then not demonstrate against the Thai government?

– They did, even occupied the whole government building, it is was of no use. That’s why the people now demonstrate at the British embassy, to vent their frustrations. Thaksin lives comfortably in London, when he should be in prison in Thailand. I am going to boycott Tesco and Lotus and all British products.

At this point, I changed the subject.

I support what the PAD have been doing. It would have/still could be a 'free for all' for Taksin and his proxies if not for them (see Somchai's desperate call to implement all mega projects immediately), but really, when I hear them up on the stage banging on about Homepro, and getting sidelong looks from Thai spouse I really start to wonder if their thought processes are as reasonable as I had once thought. Accepting some responsibility on the part of their Thai compatriots for letting the bugger flee would be a good start. Chart Naa, na?

[h90]

I had an interesting discussion with a Thai businesswoman yesterday, summarised as follows:

* Why are Thai people demonstrating at the British embassy?

– Because Thaksin lives in England. He is a criminal and should be in prison in Thailand.

* Did the Thai government ask for his extradition and the British government refused?

– No. Thaksin controls the Thai government and it won’t force him to return to Thailand.

* Should the Thai people then not demonstrate against the Thai government?

– They did, even occupied the whole government building, it is was of no use. That’s why the people now demonstrate at the British embassy, to vent their frustrations. Thaksin lives comfortably in London, when he should be in prison in Thailand. I am going to boycott Tesco and Lotus and all British products.

At this point, I changed the subject.

Whats wrong with that?

[younghusband]

I can't believe people spent so much time on that lunatic Giles.

YH, you called PAD fascist, again, and said in your support that Giles somehow nailed it - but I don't see any kind of proof in his statement, only strongly worded rhetoric.

As for legitimacy - why are you throwing legal books at us? We all know that PPP and its partners committed serious fraud in last elections. They ought to dissolved for that, everybody knew the new set of laws - keep party execs clean or face the music.

In PPP's case we are not talking about some desperate MP hopeful trying to squeeze past his rivals, we are talking about future House Speaker openly bribing dozens of local pooyais representing millions of voters. And we all know he wasn't the only one doing that - it's PPPs modus operandi, he was only unlucky he got caught.

We know how they win the elections - with buying and bribing local leaders, it doesn't matter if Thaksin is still popular or not - they've got to be punished for their wrongdoing. In a few months time the curtain will close on this circus, and on all your claims to legitimacy, too.

People obviously feel no shame in boasting about PPP and Co large victory while their political lives hang by the thread. It's just as repulsive as Samak's self aggrandisement: "I'm the elected PM, show some respect, everyone should respect me, bla bla bla". In the end the <deleted> was caught giving fake payslips to the court, among other things.

And does anyone care to remember that PPP needed a month of arm twisting to lure other parties into ruling coaltion, and it had to agree to numerous conditions, basically dumping pro-Thaksin agenda, because that's not what the would be partners promised to their voters. Joining PPP was a big turn around for many of them, starting with Banharn and Snoh.

But you pretend none of that has ever happened, and it was PPP and Thaksin who won a large majority.

Can you at least be honest with yourselves, people?

I feel like I'm a nanny picking up this shit you leave all over the place. Why don't you grow up and accept responsibility for your own words once in a while?

Well at least this is a reasoned argument of sorts, albeit wrongheaded in my view.Much of this has been hashed over before but the key points I would make are as follows.

1.I think it would incorrect to use a blanket label but itis beyond doubt there are fascist elements in the PAD's programme and tactics.Not really up for discussion.

2.Regardless of fraud at elections which sadly has affected all parties, you don't dissolve entire parties for abuse as opposed to punish those individuals who perpetrate them.The dissolution of the TRT was in most rational observers view was politically inspired, throwing out not only the bathwater but the baby and the building itself.In no civilised country, even if one agreed all abuses were true, would this ridiculously out of scale punishment take place.In any event rules are rules.I don't recall American mobs sitting in the White House grounds after the hanging chads fiasco.The opposition regrouped,convinced the American people,went though the democratic process and hopefully the result will be clear next week.In Thailand the elite just can't bear to be frustrated and the attitude is just screw the majority.They're just stupid and ignorant aren't they?

3.I've never been a fan of Thaksin, Samak or even little Somchai.Yet they were or are the legitimate leaders of Thai governments.You and your less articulate acolytes simply choose to ignore this.Most know full well that another general election would yield a similar result and that Thaksin remains by far the most poularpolitician in the country.We also can predict, given the past record and documented by Human Rights Watch etc, that the coup supporting elite will be using every trick in the book including a compromised judicial system to cheat the Thai people when elections are next held.

4.It doesn't matter how long PPP took to put together a coalition, very common in say European democracies where governments often contain those of different views.

[jamesjdaly]

......Supreme Court president Virat Limvichai expressed concern at the planned phone-in by Mr Thaksin. The convicted felon would face imprisonment for seven years or a fine of 14,000 baht if he expresses contempt for the judicial system in his speech.....

So, if that piece of shit Thaksin does express contempt, he will have to pay B14,000 for it. That'll put him off!!

fuc_king bastard.

[Scott]

After listening endlessly to the PAD, I am looking forward to hearing what Thaksin has to say.

[Plus]

2.Regardless of fraud at elections which sadly has affected all parties, you don't dissolve entire parties for abuse as opposed to punish those individuals who perpetrate them.The dissolution of the TRT was in most rational observers view was politically inspired, throwing out not only the bathwater but the baby and the building itself.In no civilised country, even if one agreed all abuses were true, would this ridiculously out of scale punishment take place.In any event rules are rules.I don't recall American mobs sitting in the White House grounds after the hanging chads fiasco.The opposition regrouped,convinced the American people,went though the democratic process and hopefully the result will be clear next week.In Thailand the elite just can't bear to be frustrated and the attitude is just screw the majority.They're just stupid and ignorant aren't they?

You can't compare technical issues with counting votes in one state with what Thaksin did in failed 2006 elections.

In case you forgot he set up several fake parties, falsified their registration documents and tampered with the official EC database. None of the party execs, including his successor Chaturon, did anything about it, not even a half hearted condemnation of the fraud and individuals involved. Not a single one of 111 exics raised a single objection or distanced himself.

Of course we know why - because the party belonged to Thaksin, it was his personal vehicle, it didn't belong to MPs, people, or ideology. There were no innocent angels there. Ordinary MPs and party members haven't been really punished, btw. What's another party switch Thai politician?

3.I've never been a fan of Thaksin, Samak or even little Somchai.Yet they were or are the legitimate leaders of Thai governments.You and your less articulate acolytes simply choose to ignore this.Most know full well that another general election would yield a similar result and that Thaksin remains by far the most poularpolitician in the country.We also can predict, given the past record and documented by Human Rights Watch etc, that the coup supporting elite will be using every trick in the book including a compromised judicial system to cheat the Thai people when elections are next held.

He might be popular, but he belongs to jail. He can't use his popularity to abuse the law. In fact he and his wife were sentenced to jail for trying exactly that - to show that high positions demand greater responsibitly and not place individuals above the rule of law. Samak and Somchai can't claim legitimacy because they work for the most popular poltician either.

4.It doesn't matter how long PPP took to put together a coalition, very common in say European democracies where governments often contain those of different views.

It matters when you claim that their views are supported by a large majority. They aren't.

[hammered]

Basically seems to me you have a choice:

Both sides resort to street warfare until one side wins, uncontollable civil war occurs or the military intervene

Everyone agrees on the ground rules of democracy (new constitution) and we have a little bit of voting. That doesnt mean we have New Politics and it doesnt mean we have idiotic PPP manipulation of the constitution. It means talking to each other and giving ground and if necessary forming an independent drafting body.

Everything else - cabinet reshuffles, elections, Dems sneaked into power through a back door, coup pretty much will lead back to one of the above choices, so we are only really left with violence until one side wins an outright victory or agreeign to a set of rules to resolve the dispute. I guess we get violence.

[Plus]

Basically seems to me you have a choice:

Both sides resort to street warfare until one side wins, uncontollable civil war occurs or the military intervene

Everyone agrees on the ground rules of democracy (new constitution) and we have a little bit of voting. That doesnt mean we have New Politics and it doesnt mean we have idiotic PPP manipulation of the constitution. It means talking to each other and giving ground and if necessary forming an independent drafting body.

Everyone might agree - essentially they have nothing to argue about anyway, but it's not in Thaksin's interests, he won't let Thais to sort things out andleave in peace 'cos that would mean losing his money.

He can't drag this forever though, sooner or later Somcai will have to give in and dissolve the house, another month has passed without any visible progress on Thaksin's side - ie they are still not ready for elections, and god knows how they are going to win without Thaksin on their banners. They had their chance, not many people would want to see them try running the country again - PPP spells Problems Problems Problems.

[Jai Dee]

ABAC POLL

Most Thais want end to political violence

The majority of Thais support the campaign to end political violence and restore national unity, a public-opinion survey has shown.

A total of 94 per cent of those surveyed said they agreed with the campaign, compared to only 6 per cent who disagreed, according to the results of an Assumption University Abac poll.

The survey was conducted on 2,698 eligible voters in 19 provinces in all regions, including Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Khon Kaen and Songkhla, between last Monday and Friday.

The survey covered people of all age groups, all levels of education and all regions. Respondents included both supporters and opponents of the government.

They largely agreed that it was time for the feuding parties to end violence and get back together and cooperate, the survey found.

They constituted 93.8 per cent of government supporters surveyed, 94.3 per cent of non-supporters and 94 per cent of people who preferred to stay neutral in the political conflict.

The survey also found that almost 92 per cent of the respondents still believed in the justice system, compared to 6.7 per cent who said they no longer had faith in it.

Noppadon Kannikar, the chief pollster, said the survey results were contrary to the general belief that Thai society was seriously divided.

"The findings showed clearly that there are ways out for the political problems," he said.

The academic said he believed the findings would be encouraging to those seeking to solve the ongoing political conflict.

"It is reassuring to learn that most Thais want to stop violence and |have amicable talks. If Thais |can weather this crisis, we shall be able to live peacefully despite our polar differences in political ideology," he said.

Meanwhile, respected senior citizen Prawase Wasi yesterday called on all parties involved in the ongoing political dispute to end violence by taking part in talks.

"To end the problem, all the parties must help end the violence; |not only the police but also the |military must be involved. All the |parties involved must also take part |in talks. I believe that both feuding sides will agree about more things than expected, such as a desire for |justice and democracy," Prawase |said.

He was giving a special lecture at Mahidol University on the intellectual resolution of worldly problems.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

[sylviex]

"The findings showed clearly that there are ways out for the political problems," he said.

The academic said he believed the findings would be encouraging to those seeking to solve the ongoing political conflict.

I suspect these results do indeed the feeling of a majority of Thais.

Whether this majority can prevail is, of course, at issue.

[animatic]

I can't believe people spent so much time on that lunatic Giles.

YH, you called PAD fascist, again, and said in your support that Giles somehow nailed it - but I don't see any kind of proof in his statement, only strongly worded rhetoric.

.......

Can you at least be honest with yourselves, people?

...........

Well at least this is a reasoned argument of sorts, albeit wrongheaded in my view...............

1.I think it would incorrect to use a blanket label but itis beyond doubt there are fascist elements in the PAD's programme and tactics.Not really up for discussion.

2.Regardless of fraud at elections which sadly has affected all parties, you don't dissolve entire parties for abuse as opposed to punish those individuals who perpetrate them.

The dissolution of the TRT was in most rational observers view was politically inspired, throwing out not only the bathwater but the baby and the building itself. In no civilised country, even if one agreed all abuses were true, would this ridiculously out of scale punishment take place. In any event rules are rules.

I don't recall American mobs sitting in the White House grounds after the hanging chads fiasco.The opposition regrouped,convinced the American people,went though the democratic process and hopefully the result will be clear next week.In Thailand the elite just can't bear to be frustrated and the attitude is just screw the majority.They're just stupid and ignorant aren't they?

3.I've never been a fan of Thaksin, Samak or even little Somchai.Yet they were or are the legitimate leaders of Thai governments.You and your less articulate acolytes simply choose to ignore this.Most know full well that another general election would yield a similar result and that Thaksin remains by far the most poularpolitician in the country.We also can predict, given the past record and documented by Human Rights Watch etc, that the coup supporting elite will be using every trick in the book including a compromised judicial system to cheat the Thai people when elections are next held.

4.It doesn't matter how long PPP took to put together a coalition, very common in say European democracies where governments often contain those of different views.

TRT was banned based on the laws. The leadership banned for KNOWING that specific vote buying goes on.

If the leadership is NOT aware of an specific instance ongoing then they are NOT dissolved.

In other words with the active aquiencense of the top party brass. THAT is why they got banned.

When a little MP candidate does it on his own and the brass donm't know, the party is NOT dissolved,

the MP is red carded and no more.

Well lets see, PPP is waiting for dissolution, because the BRASS knew and / or participated

like their won Speaker being caught... it's just winding through the courts,

they expect it, because they have already created a fall back party.

That it hasn't finished doesn't leave them legitimacy, because the precursor ruling needed for

dissolution has already hapopened. So a forgone conclusion awaiting official adjudication.

Thus is from Rule Of Low, but the way...

Of course the WILL to apply the law has a political element.

The will to IGNORE the law had a political element too.. : NULL game.

If the party knows and organizes against the law throw the bums out.

They are KNOWINGLY breaking the law, so absolutely lose legitimacy to make law.

No the length of time to make a cooalition isn't always short,

but there usually IS a time limit and it isn't done they NEXT largest party gets a shot.

And the on the run exiled former PM is NEVER asked to vet the cabinet and broker the deals.

TRT and PPP and Thaksin used every trick in the book to cheat the Thai People while IN OFFICE.

And Thaksin tries still to take back control; while a convicted criminal on the run.

And you talk about facists!

Obviously you will never get it.

For you, 'one legality trumps another' because a 'vote' was had, so they can legally steal the country blind,

because you said they got voted in, but they did that while BEING CAUGHT breaking the law.

If you are willing to throw out one law, then the opposition can also do the same.

But they are nailing Thaksin's and his minoins WITH laws, while you try to justify him by ignoring laws.

Spurious and irrelevant arguments to back an pre-existing premise.