Uk Lottery, A Warning For Us In Thailand.

[cyborg22]

[i have a friend in the uk, He works for the national lottery at one of it's payment centres.

He told me that the national lottery is aware that expats are playing the lottery illegally in countries where it is not allowed.

But he also stated that if the expats have a uk (or european address for the euro millions) that can be checked and verified, They will not look any further into it wether they are claiming £10 or £10,000.000

But if they cannot supply an address which is registered for council tax in their name in the uk, Then say goodbye to your winnings

[Crossy]

But he also stated that if the expats have a uk (or european address for the euro millions) that can be checked and verified, They will not look any further into it wether they are claiming £10 or £10,000.000

But if they cannot supply an address which is registered for council tax in their name in the uk, Then say goodbye to your winnings

Interesting, I'm not registered for council tax in the UK but I do have a bank account and credit cards linked to my address (parents place). Sufficient??

Maybe I should transfer my subscription into my parents names

It would be really helpful if Camelot could actually publish a list of countries where it's illegal to play.

[cyborg22]

But he also stated that if the expats have a uk (or european address for the euro millions) that can be checked and verified, They will not look any further into it wether they are claiming £10 or £10,000.000

But if they cannot supply an address which is registered for council tax in their name in the uk, Then say goodbye to your winnings

Interesting, I'm not registered for council tax in the UK but I do have a bank account and credit cards linked to my address (parents place). Sufficient??

Maybe I should transfer my subscription into my parents names

It would be really helpful if Camelot could actually publish a list of countries where it's illegal to play.

I have to be honest thats a question i didn't ask him, But have done now awaiting reply

[Dave the Dude]

But he also stated that if the expats have a uk (or european address for the euro millions) that can be checked and verified, They will not look any further into it wether they are claiming £10 or £10,000.000

But if they cannot supply an address which is registered for council tax in their name in the uk, Then say goodbye to your winnings

Interesting, I'm not registered for council tax in the UK but I do have a bank account and credit cards linked to my address (parents place). Sufficient??

That has got me thinking too.

For the last six years of my life in the UK, I had no (real) fixed abode due to a divorce. I understand that one has to live more than three days a week to register for council tax. I played the system for the benefit of a couple of family members who 'put me up' during this time. I had a mailing address,UK Bank account,paid tax and was honest about my circumstances when dealing with the government/inland revenue.

I just wonder if I would have been paid out, if I'd have won??

Dave

[cyborg22]

But he also stated that if the expats have a uk (or european address for the euro millions) that can be checked and verified, They will not look any further into it wether they are claiming £10 or £10,000.000

But if they cannot supply an address which is registered for council tax in their name in the uk, Then say goodbye to your winnings

Interesting, I'm not registered for council tax in the UK but I do have a bank account and credit cards linked to my address (parents place). Sufficient??

That has got me thinking too.

For the last six years of my life in the UK, I had no (real) fixed abode due to a divorce. I understand that one has to live more than three days a week to register for council tax. I played the system for the benefit of a couple of family members who 'put me up' during this time. I had a mailing address,UK Bank account,paid tax and was honest about my circumstances when dealing with the government/inland revenue.

I just wonder if I would have been paid out, if I'd have won??

Dave

another question to ask him. He's going to hate me by the end of this.

But i assume during those years you were resident in the uk yes? Although of no fixed abode. the national lottery do use the inland revenue for info also. So assume you would be ok, Espec if recieving some benifits from the state.

[The Philosopher]

The UK Lottery is litle more than a tax on stupidity and a soother for the masses who are resigned to the fact that the only way they are likely to become wealthy is to win the lottery (at 14 million to 1).

Be good if you were the 1 though

[The Philosopher]

Playing the UK lottery has very important rules for UK nationals living abroad in regards buying tickets through a retailer and playing online.

If you are in the UK, are a UK national and buy a paper ticket through a retailer then you can be sure that you will pick up any prize your ticket wins. If you are in possession of the ticket in Thailand, no problem, but you can only claim the prize in UK so suggest next plane home in first class and phone their customer services or visit them in Watford or Liverpool.

The issue causing concern is if you play online in Thailand. I have been told categorically by Camelot that they will not pay any prize to somebody who has an online account and accessed it online in Thailand to buy tickets. Even though the system does not stop you from purchasing tickets if they could check where you bought the ticket online then they would not pay out. (Personally I would not take the chance of buying online and hoping they may not/could not check). They would only pay out if you purchased the tickets online whilst in UK. Now I do know that windows, yahoo, my bank, every porn site knows where I am cos they keep telling me to access the local yahoo or meet some gorgeous white girl in Bangkok. So maybe Camelot would know where you purchased the tickets.

For me though the important problem is also that you need to be a UK resident, not just a UK national. If you are normally non-resident in the UK then officially you should not be playing the Lottery online. This may be harder for them to prove but if they know you played online overseas they may suspect you are a non-resident and try to check. I don't think they would call the tax office but again I am not taking the chance.

You can set up a direct debit in UK to pay for Lotto tickets (not euro millions) and this would be acceptable to Camelot even if you lived overseas. I am waiting for their team leader to come back and tell me if this scenario also works for non-residents.

For me it is just purchasing paper tickets through a retailer for 8 weeks when in UK and then getting back to UK on a regular basis. Anything else would probably have me quivering with shock just in case I won, I couldn't put myself through that.

Does this mean that tourists to the uk can't claim winnings

[cyborg22]

Playing the UK lottery has very important rules for UK nationals living abroad in regards buying tickets through a retailer and playing online.

If you are in the UK, are a UK national and buy a paper ticket through a retailer then you can be sure that you will pick up any prize your ticket wins. If you are in possession of the ticket in Thailand, no problem, but you can only claim the prize in UK so suggest next plane home in first class and phone their customer services or visit them in Watford or Liverpool.

The issue causing concern is if you play online in Thailand. I have been told categorically by Camelot that they will not pay any prize to somebody who has an online account and accessed it online in Thailand to buy tickets. Even though the system does not stop you from purchasing tickets if they could check where you bought the ticket online then they would not pay out. (Personally I would not take the chance of buying online and hoping they may not/could not check). They would only pay out if you purchased the tickets online whilst in UK. Now I do know that windows, yahoo, my bank, every porn site knows where I am cos they keep telling me to access the local yahoo or meet some gorgeous white girl in Bangkok. So maybe Camelot would know where you purchased the tickets.

For me though the important problem is also that you need to be a UK resident, not just a UK national. If you are normally non-resident in the UK then officially you should not be playing the Lottery online. This may be harder for them to prove but if they know you played online overseas they may suspect you are a non-resident and try to check. I don't think they would call the tax office but again I am not taking the chance.

You can set up a direct debit in UK to pay for Lotto tickets (not euro millions) and this would be acceptable to Camelot even if you lived overseas. I am waiting for their team leader to come back and tell me if this scenario also works for non-residents.

For me it is just purchasing paper tickets through a retailer for 8 weeks when in UK and then getting back to UK on a regular basis. Anything else would probably have me quivering with shock just in case I won, I couldn't put myself through that.

Does this mean that tourists to the uk can't claim winnings

a tourist to the uk should not be playing the national lottery.

Having said that if they win £500 or less they can claim it, Without filling in a clam form at the likes of tesco/sainsbury or post office and they will be paid.

Anything over that a claim form must be filled in by a uk resident with a verified address

[Kan Win]

National-Lottery-Terms and Conditions

So lets all read the above.

Good Luck to one and all, me as well

Yours truly,

Kan I really Win

[WeeGB]

So do the same rules apply for the euromillions lottery?

Seems to me the best option is to set up a direct debit with my UK bank.

[caf]

The mail went to a Lotto username that has never been accessed from outside the UK so I suspect it's going to everyone.

It would not be difficult for Camelot to filter access to simply checking your numbers etc. for IPs originating in the iffy countries, maybe they'll do this in the future.

Anyone tried using a p***y to access the site?

is discussing that allowed under forum rules?

[dalmatian]

Playing the UK lottery has very important rules for UK nationals living abroad in regards buying tickets through a retailer and playing online.

If you are in the UK, are a UK national and buy a paper ticket through a retailer then you can be sure that you will pick up any prize your ticket wins. If you are in possession of the ticket in Thailand, no problem, but you can only claim the prize in UK so suggest next plane home in first class and phone their customer services or visit them in Watford or Liverpool.

The issue causing concern is if you play online in Thailand. I have been told categorically by Camelot that they will not pay any prize to somebody who has an online account and accessed it online in Thailand to buy tickets. Even though the system does not stop you from purchasing tickets if they could check where you bought the ticket online then they would not pay out. (Personally I would not take the chance of buying online and hoping they may not/could not check). They would only pay out if you purchased the tickets online whilst in UK. Now I do know that windows, yahoo, my bank, every porn site knows where I am cos they keep telling me to access the local yahoo or meet some gorgeous white girl in Bangkok. So maybe Camelot would know where you purchased the tickets.

For me though the important problem is also that you need to be a UK resident, not just a UK national. If you are normally non-resident in the UK then officially you should not be playing the Lottery online. This may be harder for them to prove but if they know you played online overseas they may suspect you are a non-resident and try to check. I don't think they would call the tax office but again I am not taking the chance.

You can set up a direct debit in UK to pay for Lotto tickets (not euro millions) and this would be acceptable to Camelot even if you lived overseas. I am waiting for their team leader to come back and tell me if this scenario also works for non-residents.

For me it is just purchasing paper tickets through a retailer for 8 weeks when in UK and then getting back to UK on a regular basis. Anything else would probably have me quivering with shock just in case I won, I couldn't put myself through that.

I have just had a team leader from Camelot call me in relation to my post above.

You need a UK address and verification of utilities bills etc in your name at that address to claim a prize. That applies to all tickets whether played online or bought by a retailer. Now I am only talking about amounts over 50,000. Anything less and it is usually paid by the retailer (limits apply) or by Camelot sending a check through the post (questions still asked). Over 50,000 and you must make a visit to their offices to verify the ticket authenticity and your validity as a UK resident. They will not pay out if you have played online overseas. She advised that they can verify that fact. They however will expect you to confirm UK address, show passport to show you are a British National and offer enough evidence in the form of utility bills, credit card statements, bank statements or other letters that identify your name to the address given. Council tax bills would also suffice but not mandatory (most of those playing in the UK would also not be able to adhere to that, it is just another form of verification like those above.). They are bound by UK law and are just carrying out that proviso, i.e no tourists popping into the country with no fixed address can claim a prize unless they can satisfy Camelot as above (The UK passport will stump them straight away).

As said you can set up a direct debit (in the UK with Camelot) to play the Lotto, not Euro Millions; this is then treated as a paper ticket and not an online transaction.

Follow their regulations and you will be fine, don't follow and buy at your peril!

If you believe there are ways around then good for you, I originally spoke with a customer representative but she advised that a team leader would call back as she would know more about the rules governing overseas players. I am happy with what she told me. She was very understanding and said they do not want to prevent people from winning but they have regulations to adhere to. I will no longer be playing online from Thailand but will once I am in UK.

[ThaiBrat]

Message in my account today from Camelot after I bought on-line yesterday, whilst in Thailand.

Important Account information - playing online while overseas

You may be planning to go abroad this summer: We would like to remind you that in countries outside of the UK and Isle of Man, local laws often prevent the sale or purchase of tickets for any overseas lottery. To protect players, the National Lottery Rules and Terms and Conditions prohibit people from playing online in any country where it is unlawful to do so. This also means that, under local laws, as well as National Lottery rules, we would not be able to pay out any prize in these circumstances.

We would therefore advise you to only buy your tickets online when you are actually located in the UK or Isle of Man. This also applies when playing by text and through Sky Active.

Things change, so it's a good idea to make sure your details are still up to date. Please remember, you need to be resident of the UK or Isle of Man at all times throughout the period of your online Direct Debit and when you play UK National Lottery Games through your Interactive Account.

We hope you continue to enjoy playing National Lottery games and would like to wish you the best of luck in the future.

Regards

National Lottery Customer Care Team

Just checking my mail:-

Playing the National Lottery online is the safe, secure and convenient way to play. Remember that in countries outside of the UK and Isle of Man, local laws often prevent the sale or purchase of tickets for any overseas lottery. To protect players and the UK National Lottery, the National Lottery rules and Terms and Conditions prohibit people from playing online in any country where it is unlawful to do so. This also means that, under local laws and the rules, we would not be able to pay out any prize in these circumstances.

So if you are going away, we would advise you to assume it is unlawful to purchase a ticket online for the UK National Lottery whilst abroad – and to only buy your tickets when you are actually located in the UK or Isle of Man.

So if you buy your ticket online from Thailand (even though the site works) they could refuse to cough up

[bravingbangkok]

I have claimed all my prizes in the past with no hassle, although I think I will have to get a family member to buy my tickets from now on.

Never had a problem with playing poker online though.

Edited July 10, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[saintofsilence]

Does anyone know if the same type of rules apply for playing the australian lottery online from thailand

Edited July 10, 2009 by saintofsilence

[Drag0nboy]

As for the Thai lottery you are paying about 2 quid a ticket to win a posiible jackpot of three mill Thai baht, not much of a comparison in value.

OK, and the probability of a 3MTHB win?

Probably not as high but chances of them handing it over to a farang are about 17 trillion to one.

Usually you've got to go accompanied with a Thai (at least that's what my mate did) National

Try doing the Thai "Underground' Lotto - basically it uses the National Lottery numbers but pays out on the last two/ three and four numbers - combinations or potential winning numbers are huge as you can pay for 2 numbers and switch them - ie 54 becomes 45 or do number up and number down - 54 becomes 55/ 53 etc no minimum bet is required but a 50 Baht stake on two numbrs nets you about 7,000 THB and 100 THB stake on three numbers nets you approc 25,000 THB

I have won several times now the 7,000 K and once on the three numbers and play randomly so not a bad turnover.

The bets are place with locals who then take it to the 'Boss'

[Heng]

Definitely much better odds, just remember the house wins in the long run anyway.

[sanmiguellight]

You could go to the British Embassy and use whatever mobile methods there are to access the internet there and buy tickets this way, surely as its classed as British territory British laws apply.

[daveh]

Try doing the Thai "Underground' Lotto - basically it uses the National Lottery numbers but pays out on the last two/ three and four numbers - combinations or potential winning numbers are huge as you can pay for 2 numbers and switch them - ie 54 becomes 45 or do number up and number down - 54 becomes 55/ 53 etc no minimum bet is required but a 50 Baht stake on two numbrs nets you about 7,000 THB and 100 THB stake on three numbers nets you approc 25,000 THB

I have won several times now the 7,000 K and once on the three numbers and play randomly so not a bad turnover.

The bets are place with locals who then take it to the 'Boss'

Something doesn't add up with your numbers. If it costs 50 baht to play two numbers, you could spend 5000 baht to play all 100 combinations and then win 7000 baht, netting 2000 baht.

[Heng]

Try doing the Thai "Underground' Lotto - basically it uses the National Lottery numbers but pays out on the last two/ three and four numbers - combinations or potential winning numbers are huge as you can pay for 2 numbers and switch them - ie 54 becomes 45 or do number up and number down - 54 becomes 55/ 53 etc no minimum bet is required but a 50 Baht stake on two numbrs nets you about 7,000 THB and 100 THB stake on three numbers nets you approc 25,000 THB

I have won several times now the 7,000 K and once on the three numbers and play randomly so not a bad turnover.

The bets are place with locals who then take it to the 'Boss'

Something doesn't add up with your numbers. If it costs 50 baht to play two numbers, you could spend 5000 baht to play all 100 combinations and then win 7000 baht, netting 2000 baht.

Not sure about his math either. It's possible that he knows of his payouts from a 'house' that has abnormal payouts.

Better to look at in straight payouts from what (as far as I know anyway) are the industry norms.

If you play 'throng' or straight, say 123, your payout is 500-1. You play 1 Baht and you get 500 if 123 comes out.

If you play the same numbers 'thot' or mixed, the payout is only 100-1. So if you play 1 Baht, you'd only get 100 Baht if 123, 321, 213, 231, 132, 312 came out. You'd "get" to play more numbers, but your payout is less.

The lure is that it 'feels' like you have a good chance. That feel gets even stronger if you play more numbers (you might notice that the dealer's smile gets proportionately bigger as well). The same way big state lotteries lure you into thinking that 'at least you have a chance, however slim' for a big win that would get you out of the cr@p hole of a life you are no doubt living now.

[torrenova]

Probably not as high but chances of them handing it over to a farang are about 17 trillion to one.

And there is the great conundrum. You win the Thai lottery but think you'll never get out with the winnings alive so you hand the ticket over to a Thai and they promptly bugger off and leave you pennyless.

There would be a national outcry if a westerner had the whole bunch of winning tickets for a certain number and had the serial number bonus as well. Canyou imagine them giving out Bt100,000,000 to a westerner ?

17 trillion to 1 looks wildly optimistic I'd say !

[metrodave]

From the BBC Website and I hope it clears this topic up.

Holiday lottery rules 'not clear'

The National Lottery was founded in 1994

National Lottery operator Camelot has been criticised for allowing people to buy tickets online while abroad despite them being unable to win any money. In countries including Spain and the US it is illegal for Britons to play the UK lottery, making their tickets void.

But Camelot's website does not stop them buying tickets and consumer body Which? said the rules were not clear.

Camelot said it does warn people who buy online, but cannot provide a list of countries where playing is banned.

The National Lottery website can be accessed from anywhere in the world, but in much of Europe, for example, local laws bar people from taking part in foreign lottery draws while on holiday there.

Tickets void

One Briton, Chris Jones, from Tyne and Wear, told the website thisismoney.co.uk that he lost out on more than £5,000 in prize money after buying a National Lottery ticket online while in Majorca.

"What annoys me is that they still accepted my money," he said.

Stephen McGlade, from Which?, said Camelot must do more to prevent such situations occurring.

What we want to do is make sure that people who are entitled to play, can play, and those that shouldn't be playing, don't play

Rob Dwight, Camelot"What we'd like Camelot to do is to invest more in the website so it makes it clear to people playing the lottery abroad that it is void with tickets if they purchased them abroad," he told the BBC.

"Secondly, there should be measures in place so that if I am in Spain and I play the lottery, I'm barred from doing so."

Camelot said it sent warning e-mails to its online players several times a year explaining the situation.

Its website also warns that any ticket bought in a country where playing the lottery online is banned will not be valid, but Camelot said it would be impossible to provide a complete list of countries as local laws changed on a regular basis.

'Technology evolving'

Spokesman Rob Dwight said: "We've looked at a range of software options over the years and have actually tested them out and we will continue to do so.

"Obviously, the technology in this area is constantly evolving. What we want to do is make sure that people who are entitled to play can play, and those that shouldn't be playing don't play."

Tom Ilube, from online identity experts Garlik, said the system could be easily changed with just a few days work.

"Camelot could set up their site so that if, say, you were logging in from Spain, it would put up a warning sign saying: 'You appear to be logging in from this territory, you're not supposed to be using it from here. If you're not, please press continue and carry on,'" he said.

We would advise players to assume that it is unlawful to purchase a ticket whilst abroad, and to only buy their tickets whilst located in the UK or Isle of Man

National Lottery websiteOn the National Lottery website, Camelot warns that any tickets bought in the US or "any other jurisdiction in which it is unlawful to play the Games" will not be valid for any prize claims.

Its "frequently asked questions" section states: "In countries outside of the UK and Isle of Man, local laws often prevent the sale or purchase of tickets for any overseas lottery.

"To protect players and the UK National Lottery, the National Lottery rules and terms and conditions prohibit people from playing online in any country where it is unlawful to do so.

"Lawfulness will vary from country to country and, possibly, from time to time. This also means that, under local laws and National Lottery rules, we would not be able to pay out any prize in these circumstances."

It adds: "Therefore, we would advise players to assume that it is unlawful to purchase a ticket whilst abroad, and to only buy their tickets whilst located in the UK or Isle of Man."

Country-specific laws also apply to the EuroMillions draw even though it is a continent-wide lottery.

Each country has a separate EuroMillions operator, so it is illegal for a UK national to buy a Euromillions ticket in another country by using the Camelot-run website.

Anyone who accesses the main EuroMillions site is offered two options - "Buy tickets outside the UK" and "Buy tickets from the UK".

Edited August 10, 2009 by metrodave

[Harcourt]

I'm not a lawyer.

The way I see it is that there are numerous reports of small winnings being paid out, even though the players are abroad. This being so, and taking into account that Westminster Law is a Law Of Precedent, I would say that any winner would be able to show that the lottery company is reneging on the large amounts, when it suits them, and thus have a strong argument for forcing the payout.

Question to ask: What happens to the winnings if a technicality gives them an excuse to not pay?