Some Chiang Mai Residents Disagree With New Town Planning

[Sathip2008]

uote]IMO the lovely lady mayor will sympathetically listen to all the concerned foreigners who obviously care about the city they have chosen to live in. She will also promise to do her best to stop this outrageous plan. After all, her election platform was to make Chiang Mai cleaner and less polluted, but I would love to be there when somebody points out it's HER signature that approved the plans back in August. Many of us have been here long enough to know exactly what is happening.

[StevieH]

Well, if people don't read what i write properly then maybe any cause i have will be destined to failure. What you ascribe to me is not what i wrote. I was talking about a specific set of trees that number in the hundreds and line a road for several kms and have been alive for a very long time.

Many humans place their species at the top of the pile of evolution, the VIPs of life if you like, and of course if anybody decides human lives are worth more than any other kind of life, then me defending trees is going to look somewhat silly. But what you might like to remind yourself of is that without trees, there'd be ho human life anyway. Trees sustain life for generations upon generations of humans and all kinds of animals. Therefore killing these trees i maintain is worse than killing an equal number of people. Neither is necessary of course.

i agree, but only if i get to choose which human beings.

[cmsally]

Chiang Mai News (Thai)

An update about opposition.

[femi fan]

These trees have spent maybe 200 years growing to their magnificent spectacle, and the thought of humans beings proposing to cut them down boggles my mind... It seems more horrifying to me than the murder of hundreds of people.

This is what you wrote and your "explanation" does not change much of anything. I don't think that you mean to be so controversial, but most people will not agree that killing trees - no matter how old they are - is anywhere in the same realm as killing human beings.

No, i wasn't meaning to be controversial, i was attempting to make the point about how precious these particular trees are. They've spent several generations worth of human lives growing to their enormous height! Hence the comparison. Maybe it was a bad move, but i was not talking about human lives being worth less than any old tree, just specifically these magnificent specimens. The same would go for so many trees in chiang mai (one of the things that makes the town so special in my opinion) and i cannot imagine the dreadful action of cutting down the tree outside the clubhouse at the gymkhana club for example.

I merely made the comparison to try and point out how valuable these tall trees are. Maybe it failed. Anyway, my girlfriend assures me it's impossible for it to happen, too many people will stop them from committing the brutality they plan on these magnificent examples of life!

[femi fan]

Well, if people don't read what i write properly then maybe any cause i have will be destined to failure. What you ascribe to me is not what i wrote. I was talking about a specific set of trees that number in the hundreds and line a road for several kms and have been alive for a very long time.

Many humans place their species at the top of the pile of evolution, the VIPs of life if you like, and of course if anybody decides human lives are worth more than any other kind of life, then me defending trees is going to look somewhat silly. But what you might like to remind yourself of is that without trees, there'd be ho human life anyway. Trees sustain life for generations upon generations of humans and all kinds of animals. Therefore killing these trees i maintain is worse than killing an equal number of people. Neither is necessary of course.

i agree, but only if i get to choose which human beings.

Well, hey, that would kill two birds with one stone. Good idea. Let me help you choose...!

[femi fan]

Chiang Mai News (Thai)

An update about opposition.

Could someone give us a rough summary by way of translation here?

[Greenside]

There is a large plot of land being cleared opposite the Amari hotel at the rincome intersection, is this something to do with widening the road?

More likely to be more giant apartment blocks

[cmsally]

These trees have spent maybe 200 years growing to their magnificent spectacle, and the thought of humans beings proposing to cut them down boggles my mind... It seems more horrifying to me than the murder of hundreds of people.

This is what you wrote and your "explanation" does not change much of anything. I don't think that you mean to be so controversial, but most people will not agree that killing trees - no matter how old they are - is anywhere in the same realm as killing human beings.

No, i wasn't meaning to be controversial, i was attempting to make the point about how precious these particular trees are. They've spent several generations worth of human lives growing to their enormous height! Hence the comparison. Maybe it was a bad move, but i was not talking about human lives being worth less than any old tree, just specifically these magnificent specimens. The same would go for so many trees in chiang mai (one of the things that makes the town so special in my opinion) and i cannot imagine the dreadful action of cutting down the tree outside the clubhouse at the gymkhana club for example.

I merely made the comparison to try and point out how valuable these tall trees are. Maybe it failed. Anyway, my girlfriend assures me it's impossible for it to happen, too many people will stop them from committing the brutality they plan on these magnificent examples of life!

Last time there was a threat of this they ordained the trees. Seeing as the trees were never un ordained, I presume the status still stands. In which case presumably somewhat worse than killing human beings.

[Loaded]

Last time there was a threat of this they ordained the trees. Seeing as the trees were never un ordained, I presume the status still stands. In which case presumably somewhat worse than killing human beings.

Many of the tress still have their monks' robes wrapped around them. You could put armed security around those trees and someone would have them down in 5 minutes. Ordain them as monks and they'll never be touched. I love this place so much.

I think those tress go back to Rama 5 or 6. He planted them outside the houses lining the road. He asked the local residents to take care of the trees by watering and feeding them as well. The local community is very proud of those trees. Apart from the Superhighway, there is an alternative road to Lamphun - along the railway tracks and built around 4 or 5 years ago. Unfortunately, this road 'melted' with the first rains. Nobody was happy except the contractors and Boonlert the mayor at that time. Repairs and cost to the tax payers have continued to the present. A nice little earner for all concerned.

Why is it that new roads in CM can't seem to last beyond the first rainy season? The locals will tell you it's cheaper to build them with gold than tar and stone.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Loaded

[Ulysses G.]

No, i wasn't meaning to be controversial, i was attempting to make the point about how precious these particular trees are. They've spent several generations worth of human lives growing to their enormous height!

I agree that they are of great worth, but as Lennon points out in Revolution, you have to watch how you say it.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

chiang mai has an excellent road syatem as it is.the only way to easy congestion and a cheap one too is to eliminate all public parking in the inner city and around. for cars.more room to drive but less incentive to come here with your car.it's that easy.everything else will just do the opposite by attracting more vehicles.it needs inforcement though but then again income too for the boys in brown.

[waveydavey]

There is a large plot of land being cleared opposite the Amari hotel at the rincome intersection, is this something to do with widening the road?

More likely to be more giant apartment blocks

Correct - it is apartments

[Lordfoul]

How dare they build condos and ruin the amazing view we have had for years of that green construction fence.

There is a large plot of land being cleared opposite the Amari hotel at the rincome intersection, is this something to do with widening the road?

More likely to be more giant apartment blocks

Correct - it is apartments

[cmsally]

As was evident on Tapae Rd. today, you could quite easily remove some congestion by banning speaker vans.

Along with making some areas no parking zones and not issuing new songtaew licenses (and not transferable to other vehicles), I think we have about found the solution to any traffic problems.

[cmsally]

There is a large plot of land being cleared opposite the Amari hotel at the rincome intersection, is this something to do with widening the road?

More likely to be more giant apartment blocks

Correct - it is apartments

How wonderful for all those who have yearned to live right on a busy intersection.

PS Road access to a large building directly on corner such as this = logistic nightmare. What responsible town planner would have given permission.

Edited November 17, 2008 by cmsally

[PeaceBlondie]

....I could quote the lyrics to "Helter Skelter" if that would help....or "Sunday, Bloody Sunday".....

[femi fan]

No, i wasn't meaning to be controversial, i was attempting to make the point about how precious these particular trees are. They've spent several generations worth of human lives growing to their enormous height!

I agree that they are of great worth, but as Lennon points out in Revolution, you have to watch how you say it.

I'll watch, i usually do, but sometimes it comes out under the radar. Fully agreed with what you're pointing out to me!

[jackr]

These trees have spent maybe 200 years growing to their magnificent spectacle, and the thought of humans beings proposing to cut them down boggles my mind... It seems more horrifying to me than the murder of hundreds of people.

This is what you wrote and your "explanation" does not change much of anything. I don't think that you mean to be so controversial, but most people will not agree that killing trees - no matter how old they are - is anywhere in the same realm as killing human beings.

I dunno, UG; if it came to it there's one or two I'd rather see rubbed out than one of my foxtails, let alone those centuries-old beauties.

How about leaving the trees but widening the road anyway and having the one set a feature of the central reservation

[cmsally]

These trees have spent maybe 200 years growing to their magnificent spectacle, and the thought of humans beings proposing to cut them down boggles my mind... It seems more horrifying to me than the murder of hundreds of people.

This is what you wrote and your "explanation" does not change much of anything. I don't think that you mean to be so controversial, but most people will not agree that killing trees - no matter how old they are - is anywhere in the same realm as killing human beings.

I dunno, UG; if it came to it there's one or two I'd rather see rubbed out than one of my foxtails, let alone those centuries-old beauties.

How about leaving the trees but widening the road anyway and having the one set a feature of the central reservation

Somebody would be left without pocket money! Timber = $$$

[Mapguy]

To put the troublesome issue of large trees aside for a moment, I'd like to get back to solutions, not problems (and that Chiang Mai - Lamphun Road is indeed a problem.

I mentioned the electric trolleys, such as cruise the CMU campus before. ANother more remote possibility is a monorail system. I am not talking about a massive intrusion such as the Bangkok Skytrain. If you have ever been to Wuppertal, Germany (near Dusseldorf) you will have experienced this graceful and efficient transport that was built over 100 years ago!! The small city is in a very narrow valley. The challenge was how to put in a transit system that did not overwhelm the place and which would not remove too much real estate. And it didn't --- and doesn't. It is, actually, quite graceful. With construction techniques improving over 100 years, I imagine something even more elegant (and suitable for the character of this city) could be built.

Anyway, take a look here: http://schwebebahn.com/gallery/index.asp

It might be a myth, but I was told that there has only been one accident. In an early promotional stunt, they tried to get a baby elephant on board. The poor elephant panicked, jumped and died!

[db1tau]

There was a big accident about 10 years ago, when the monorail crashed into the river. It was big news at least in the german media.

Railways in Chiangmai would only make sense at the arterial roads to lamphun, doi saket, hang dong etc. But that won't solve any traffic problems in the city... plus they need a lot of parking space near the terminal stations.

I don't think a mass transportation system will improve things a lot, unless they spend a huge amount of money and can live with almost empty trains (look at the subway in BKK). Bus lanes and a better network of public busses would be nice but this also means the widening of roads.

Trying to enforce traffic laws (like banning cars from the inner city) will probably not work, unless they put a guard and a roadblock on every single soi that leads inside the city. People will always find a way to circumvent this.

Enforcing "no parking" zones will maybe work a bit better (as parked cars can't run away from the police) but you will still find cars and songtaews stopping everywhere with the driver inside waiting for some passengers. "No parking" in the city also requires the construction of more parking buildings around the moat (where??).

I think the biggest problems are still the traffic lights and some hotspots like markets (e.g. the rincome market) where parking is a madness.

[Paagai]

There is a large plot of land being cleared opposite the Amari hotel at the rincome intersection, is this something to do with widening the road?

More likely to be more giant apartment blocks

Correct - it is apartments

I'd heard a shopping mall on oneside and conference centre on the other - but I've no idea how accurate the source was.