8 Injured In Another Bomb Attack Outside Govt House

[Journalist]

^Exactly.

Of course the Police's true duty is to uphold Law and Order, but in this case, their role is unfolding differently.

A failure to act in the solution of select crimes is just as active a bias.

[h90]

The PAD cleverly emasculated the Police, by putting them in a position where they couldn't discharge the break-up of the crowd for fear it would precipitate army intervention. (especially after the woman was killed by the gas canister).

Unfortunately for PAD, their taking the Police out of the equation has backfired, as now you have these lone guerilla bombers on scooters.

People have to use their own best judgment about whether they will stand in a crowd that is tantamount to cannon fodder. Its their responsibility as adults, perhaps parents, bread-winners etc to make that choice. Its not cowardly for any of these folk to leave the barricades at a point like this.

So now you seem to be arguing that because PAD got tear gassed, beaten and attacked by the Police on Oct 7, that they "cleverly emasculated them" and so now it is no longer the cops duty to protect law, order and life and limb of certain Thai citizens, because they do not support a certain political faction or other. You seem to be saying it is perfectly justified for the police to turn a blind eye to genade launcher-bearing guns for hire hoodlums to roam the streets of Bangkok, picking off people you or Thaksin would rather not see or hear from. That the kind of place you want to live in faux-journalist?

Sometimes I don't know what planet some of you Thaksinistas live on, but it is a cold, violent and lawless one for sure.

The reality is that the police are no longer seen as neutral and are seen as an active participant in the crisis. Talking to just about any mid ranking police officer up and they will confirm what side they are on in terms of a specific name.

This is even more the case with bussed in border police from 3 carefully chosen divisions. Border police in Bangkok always means one thing. Lets hope there are none around today.

The name "BORDER POLICE" says it all.....<deleted> are they doing in Bangkok??? On my map there is no border close to Bangkok....

[Journalist]

Talking to just about any mid ranking police officer up and they will confirm what side they are on in terms of a specific name.

Its okay, you are allowed to write the name of Thaksin Shinawatra. He's not that grand yet.

In fact if you don't make the name clear, or if folk start writing about Thaksin in terms of 'he who shall not be mentioned' then readers will get confused and might think that the customary code is being used to identify those whose name must not be mentioned.

[pacovl46]

8 injured in another bomb attack outside Government House

BANGKOK: -- Eight protesters were injured, one severely, after two assailants launched a grenade at them at the Misakawan Intersection outside the Government House early Saturday.The attack was made at 2:10 am against a group of some 20 protesters who were standing and talking outside a gate of the Government House.

Anupong Samerphak, 22, was hit by bomb shrapnel at his body and neck. Ramathibodi Hospital doctors had to put him on respiratory system.

Eyewitnesses said two teenagers parked their motorcycle near the back gate of the Metropolitan Police head office and used a grenade launcher to launch a grenade at the protesters. The two fled the scene on Phitsanulok Road.

The injured protesters were standing near the Fifth Gate of the Government House Complex opposite from the Education Ministry.

The explosion caused a small hole in the ground and damaged two pick-up trucks, a sedan car and a motorcycle near the scene.

Maj Gen Anan Srihiran, commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 1, rushed to the scene with bomb disposal officers to carry out an investigation.

Pongchai Saetang, 42, a taxi driver, told police that he was waiting at the intersection for passengers when he saw a red light in the air, which was followed by a loud noise shortly.

He said the explosion occurred at the spot where about 20 people were talking.

The taxi driver said he saw two young men fleeing on their motorcycle on Phitsanulok heading to the Wang Daeng intersection.

The two men were about 200 metres away from the explosion spot when they ran to their motorcycle and fled, the taxi driver said.

The seven other injured were identified as Wirat Piangsajja, 54, Somchai Wongsonthi, 44, Pongchanok Kanchana-amorndej, 31, Samrerng Buachan, 26, Prakrong Hachai, 38, Narong Nakiam, 64 and Ekkapol Sahawat, 33.

All of them were rushed to the Ramathibodi Hospital by the PAD guards.

It was the second bomb attack after the tacit ceasefire during the royal cremation period.

Early Thursday, a grenade was launched at protesters inside the Government House complex, killing one and injuring more than 20 others.

The Thursday bomb prompted the PAD to declare war and plan a mass rally outside Parliament Sunday to try to speed up the downfall of the government.

-- The Nation 2008-11-22

welcome to amazing "iraq, afghansitan, etc"

[animatic]

The border between sanity and chaos is in Bangkok today...

I don't see Journalist as thasinista at all.

Pro Democracy certainly,

Anti-coup certainly.

Pro active government working for the people's best interests.

Anti- chaos or loose cannons.

[marshbags]

May you all stay safe and go on to achieve a deserved, just solution to all the violent agendas of the opposition, not least of all to the sponsor of it all.....................Yes that,s him

THAKSIN...............There you are Journalist, just in case any fresh eyes need to know who am referring to....marshbags

marshbags

In political situation terminology 'opposition' is construed as the body opposed to the Government.

So what you've said here then is that the opposition has violent agendas, and then you link it to some sponsor, whom you demurely refrain from naming.

Now, no doubt the people who read these forums 24/7 will cotton on to what you actually meant, but other fresh eyes will view it in the more logical way.

Hopefully Thailand and most of the outside world are / will be well aware of THAKSIN,S infamous demeanour and his win at any costs, which sadly also includes inflicting human suffering and murder to advance his unethical objectives using innocents he considers unimportant as collateral.

They will also be able to read much about THAKSIN on the various threads of not only Thai Visa but various other forums, along with media and HRW reports, should they need to do so.

marshbags

Edited November 23, 2008 by marshbags

[sriracha john]

I'd like to know...where the h**l do Thai teenagers get grenade launchers and hand grenades from??? ...

Certainly, it's hard to know if PAD's future plans for Thailand are the right ones, given the anti-democratic elements involved... But at least, since the original NBT fiasco, they have kept pretty closely to their non-violent civil disobedience approach against the government.

Clearly, the same cannot be said for their opponents....

Sae Daeng who was training opposition to the PAD said that if they continued they would be bombed. Since that is just a small matter he was given a reprimand for doing and saying what he did. He refused to accept this and said that if PAD continued they would be attacked by grenade launchers. This was from the papers yesterday so you go figure.

Yes, these are the "King Taksin Warriors" mentioned at the bottom.

Meanwhile, Army Major-General Khattiya Sawasdiphol said he would mobilise government supporters

Khattiya Sawasdiphol (from his website)

http://www.sae-dang.com/

My browser doesn't like his site.

But these two images speak more than all the sanscrit he has to say.

Didn't his training officer say NEVER point a gun at someone

unless you intend on shooting them.

So he points at EVERYBODY checking his site out. Oooh that's so, uh, uh... tasteful.

but by God, he's gonna do so defending the Democracy Monument....

and going between that one and this one with children dolls...

results in what I believe the correct and proper clinical terminology to describe this man is..... "fruitcake".....

and a heavily armed one, at that.

he's finally being bridled in...

Sae Daeng: Ordered to stop by Army Chief

Bangkok Post

Sae Daeng to stop training UDD group

Ordered to stop by Army Chief

Army specialist Major-General Khattiya Sawadipol decided yesterday to stop training a group of pro-government UDD security guards who call themselves, "King Taksin's Warriors."

[animatic]

He doesn't need to train them more,

they already know too much to be safe on the streets.

[hungryhippo]

Could the PAD them be the ones that are bombing themselves ? think about it ,makes them even stronger ,not saying they are ,but one could not rule it out

Whenever anyone blows up PAD protesters someone always comes along and suggests they're doing it to themselves. It's retarded, no one is blowing themselves up and that goes for all the times it has happened to the PAD before too. There is a striking similarity between select members of this board and the Chinese government which does this to Falun Gong practitioners. "Oh, they beat themselves to death", yeah... right...

Next you're going to tell me bush did 9/11

[h90]

Could the PAD them be the ones that are bombing themselves ? think about it ,makes them even stronger ,not saying they are ,but one could not rule it out

Whenever anyone blows up PAD protesters someone always comes along and suggests they're doing it to themselves. It's retarded, no one is blowing themselves up and that goes for all the times it has happened to the PAD before too. There is a striking similarity between select members of this board and the Chinese government which does this to Falun Gong practitioners. "Oh, they beat themselves to death", yeah... right...

Next you're going to tell me bush did 9/11

Recall the 7 October lies....

They lost their limbs by falling over each other.....

The girl carried a bomb

etc etc etc....

That government and their supporters are complete shameless in their lies.

[Foggy Bottom]

Next you're going to tell me bush did 9/11

.... errrm you mean no-one brought you up to speed on that?

Oh dear, guess you'll have to go buy the VCD twin set then?

[marshbags]

The Nation, Breaking news, November 23, 2008 : Last updated 04:34 pm

PAD to hold bathing rite for slain guard Monday

The People's Alliance for Democracy announced Sunday that it will hold a bathing rite for its guard, who was fatally injured in a bomb attack Saturday, on Monday.

Doctor Surasak Leela-udomlippi, deputy director of the Ramathibodi Hospital, said Yutthapong Samerphak, 21, died of brain-dead and failed blood circulation at 1:45 pm.

Doctors performed an operation on his brain and found a tiny object at his brain stem, he said.

The PAD announced at the rally site in the Government House complex that the bathing rite would be held at the Soammanas Maha Worawiharn.

Yutthapong was in coma since he was attacked by a grenade early Saturday.

Unquote

May he and all who suffer the ultimate for this very important and just cause RIP

marshbags

A duplicated posting but worthy of it IMHO

Edited November 23, 2008 by marshbags

[Scott]

I am getting really confused: The PAD illegally take over the gov't house, they block roads, they go where they want, do what they want, disrupt the normal functioning of the (dysfunctional and inept) gov't and mess up ordinary people's lives. They are to be afforded the protection of the military and the police in a place which they legally shouldn't even be.

When something happens, it is the fault of the police for not protecting them.

I am afraid that these people have MANY enemies--and all the enemies are not pro-gov't or for Thaksin.

Comparing the place to Iraq or Afghanistan is starting to look like a compliment--it's starting to look more like Somalia.

[h90]

I am getting really confused: The PAD illegally take over the gov't house, they block roads, they go where they want, do what they want, disrupt the normal functioning of the (dysfunctional and inept) gov't and mess up ordinary people's lives. They are to be afforded the protection of the military and the police in a place which they legally shouldn't even be.

When something happens, it is the fault of the police for not protecting them.

I am afraid that these people have MANY enemies--and all the enemies are not pro-gov't or for Thaksin.

Comparing the place to Iraq or Afghanistan is starting to look like a compliment--it's starting to look more like Somalia.

Well if they wouldn't illegally hold the government house. The illegal government would illegally hold the government house and that would damage the ordinary peoples live even more, as the corruption would cost them a lot.

Don't forget that the election was won due to massive vote buying which is meanwhile an accepted fact.

[Scott]

Thanks for totally clearing that up for me h90.

[Journalist]

^^H90

Would you accept TRT/PPP as a legit Government if they won a general election without THB500 notes changing hands beforehand?

Eg: if their campaign manifesto included a cashback/giveaway to the peasantry AFTER an election victory (in the promissory style of western parties)

[Journalist]

I think that photo of the army guy with an assault rifle is ghastly. Why would anyone in their right mind pose like that. He must be a few satang short of a baht.

I suspect there's lots of meat-brained types on both sides of the political divide in the army. Thats why I don't want any of them launching another coup and being in charge of the country.

[h90]

^^H90

Would you accept TRT/PPP as a legit Government if they won a general election without THB500 notes changing hands beforehand?

Eg: if their campaign manifesto included a cashback/giveaway to the peasantry AFTER an election victory (in the promissory style of western parties)

If the cashback would be in the populist western party style: "We build this and that, reduce to taxes, blablabla" than it would be OK for me.

Even handouts of money. I never heard in the west that only voters of one party get money or that only areas which support one party get some money.

These populist campaigns in the west can be countered two ways:

a) Every party promise huge handouts till the last idiot can see the nonsense....that happens often.

The other parties tell that it can't be financed and explain that everyone will have to pay higher taxes for it.

Even populist it is not the same as handing out cash. I don't know one single country in which vote buying is legal.

[Xangsamhua]

I am getting really confused: The PAD illegally take over the gov't house, they block roads, they go where they want, do what they want, disrupt the normal functioning of the (dysfunctional and inept) gov't and mess up ordinary people's lives. They are to be afforded the protection of the military and the police in a place which they legally shouldn't even be.

When something happens, it is the fault of the police for not protecting them.

I am afraid that these people have MANY enemies--and all the enemies are not pro-gov't or for Thaksin.

Comparing the place to Iraq or Afghanistan is starting to look like a compliment--it's starting to look more like Somalia.

Under normal circumstances, it would be neither necessary nor desirable to occupy any public area. However, when people feel disenfanchised by a system that's gone completely off the rails, popular resistance occurs. We can be grateful that the PAD is a non-violent movement.

Any demonstration that blocks traffic, access to government buildings, etc is never welcomed and is probably not legal (at least in conflict with city by-laws). However, these things happen - there were many during the Vietnam War, in the Marcos years, during the Raj in India, and so on. We may or may not agree with them, but we can be grateful if they're peaceful and neither protesters nor authorities overstep the mark.

The PAD protest has gone on so long because it's been fuelled by the outrageous behaviour of the government and, under orders, the police.

The government claims to be legitimate (by virtue of its landslide in the Northeast). However, it no longer even tries to mask the fact that it speaks on behalf of and intends to facilitate the return of the one who many believe managed the country as an extension of his family businesses.

The governing party is about to be deregistered. Most of its senior ministers have been charged (the Interior Minister is actually serving a suspended sentence). The only honourable one has entered the monkhood in remorse for his and the government's culpability on October 7; the rest of them take no responsibility.

And people complain that PAD are causing inconvenience! It seems that many people in Thailand (government supporters) are perfectly happy to be ruled by vampires - if their leaders to bleed the country dry, while distracting the people with bread and circuses, that's fine by them, as long as they have a powerful leader. But more and more people are sick of that kind of thing and are prepared to suffer a little inconvenience if it helps to clean things up. Hence the continuing support for the PAD, despite the violence against them in Bangkok and Udon.

[jdinasia]

I am getting really confused: The PAD illegally take over the gov't house, they block roads, they go where they want, do what they want, disrupt the normal functioning of the (dysfunctional and inept) gov't and mess up ordinary people's lives. They are to be afforded the protection of the military and the police in a place which they legally shouldn't even be.

When something happens, it is the fault of the police for not protecting them.

I am afraid that these people have MANY enemies--and all the enemies are not pro-gov't or for Thaksin.

Comparing the place to Iraq or Afghanistan is starting to look like a compliment--it's starting to look more like Somalia.

LOL .. oh yes this is exactly like Somalia! The starvation and the inability to cross a street without a warlord's troops gunning for you!

I love when the "law and order" group suggest that the population shouldn't be protected because they are not the group that they like!

[Kaojai]

Why can they not use Western simple logic ...

Western logic like the differences of "opinion" between the Brits & IRA?? ETA and Spain?? In Chiapas Mexico ?? South Africa & advocates for or against apartheid??

I hope the violence in Thailand, and everywhere else for that matter, ceases and the causes for it are resolved, but to suggest that this is some failing in Thai or Asian logic in comparison to life in farangland where all is serene & blissful and disagreements are settled over tea is, once again, hogwash.

Violence results when greedy people either want to maintain the status quo or they want to disrupt the status quo, or when people with long standing grievances find no reasonable way of resolving those grievances or are impatient with the process for change. It's abhorent because innocent people or at least people protesting in a reasonable manner, are injured or killed. Unfortunately it is sometimes effective in forcing change. It is not, however, some singular failing of Thais or Asians, nor is it a problem people in the west have risen above.

It continually amazes me that people who have come to live in Thailand must constantly and in all cases resort to us versus them mentality in viewing anything that happens. People do horrible things to one another everywhere in the world. Whether it's out of frustration, due to alleged righteous indignation, for personal enrichment ... whatever reason, it's sad. But these problems are problems everywhere. Attributing these problems to some unique failing of Thais or Asians or anyone who doesn't look like us and assuming that the world would be problem-free if only everyone acted like westerners is simply ridiculous and demonstrates that the concept of universal "Western logic" doesn't exist universally.

[h90]

Why can they not use Western simple logic ...

Western logic like the differences of "opinion" between the Brits & IRA?? ETA and Spain?? In Chiapas Mexico ?? South Africa & advocates for or against apartheid??

I hope the violence in Thailand, and everywhere else for that matter, ceases and the causes for it are resolved, but to suggest that this is some failing in Thai or Asian logic in comparison to life in farangland where all is serene & blissful and disagreements are settled over tea is, once again, hogwash.

Violence results when greedy people either want to maintain the status quo or they want to disrupt the status quo, or when people with long standing grievances find no reasonable way of resolving those grievances or are impatient with the process for change. It's abhorent because innocent people or at least people protesting in a reasonable manner, are injured or killed. Unfortunately it is sometimes effective in forcing change. It is not, however, some singular failing of Thais or Asians, nor is it a problem people in the west have risen above.

It continually amazes me that people who have come to live in Thailand must constantly and in all cases resort to us versus them mentality in viewing anything that happens. People do horrible things to one another everywhere in the world. Whether it's out of frustration, due to alleged righteous indignation, for personal enrichment ... whatever reason, it's sad. But these problems are problems everywhere. Attributing these problems to some unique failing of Thais or Asians or anyone who doesn't look like us and assuming that the world would be problem-free if only everyone acted like westerners is simply ridiculous and demonstrates that the concept of universal "Western logic" doesn't exist universally.

To add: the violent clashes in France not long ago.

To add 2: USA starting wars with far more than a million dead people

In compare to both things I prefer the Thai logic and no (or very little) violence in compare.

[Scott]

I have absolutely no allegiance to either group. I find them both distasteful.

[hammered]

I think that photo of the army guy with an assault rifle is ghastly. Why would anyone in their right mind pose like that. He must be a few satang short of a baht.

I suspect there's lots of meat-brained types on both sides of the political divide in the army. Thats why I don't want any of them launching another coup and being in charge of the country.

The loons have been unleashed already. The problem is that even with the best of will those controlling the respective sides will have trouble either now predicting where the loons will go or putting them back in the little enclosure they deserve to be in.

[hammered]

I have absolutely no allegiance to either group. I find them both distasteful.

Welcome to the club of the unwanted and maligned by all.

[Journalist]

If the cashback would be in the populist western party style: "We build this and that, reduce to taxes, blablabla" than it would be OK for me.

Even handouts of money. I never heard in the west that only voters of one party get money or that only areas which support one party get some money.

These populist campaigns in the west can be countered two ways:

a) Every party promise huge handouts till the last idiot can see the nonsense....that happens often. The other parties tell that it can't be financed and explain that everyone will have to pay higher taxes for it.

Even populist it is not the same as handing out cash. I don't know one single country in which vote buying is legal.

Western politicians do practise 'pork barrel' politics where they bring home the pork (i.e government $) to their areas. And its spent on all kinds of local projects, ......and local people get enriched in a variety of ways. Some more than others depending on how the money is apportioned.

They say 'vote for me and i'll bring home the bacon';. Its a less blatant than sticking a banknote in someone's pocket and asking for a vote.

The voter has to trust them to deliver because his payoff comes later. (And of course politicians often lie -........so then they get voted out next time).

Eg: the famous 'Bridge to nowhere' planned for Alaska, which resulted in a scandal as it was so pointless and daft.

.

[h90]

If the cashback would be in the populist western party style: "We build this and that, reduce to taxes, blablabla" than it would be OK for me.

Even handouts of money. I never heard in the west that only voters of one party get money or that only areas which support one party get some money.

These populist campaigns in the west can be countered two ways:

a) Every party promise huge handouts till the last idiot can see the nonsense....that happens often. The other parties tell that it can't be financed and explain that everyone will have to pay higher taxes for it.

Even populist it is not the same as handing out cash. I don't know one single country in which vote buying is legal.

Western politicians do practise 'pork barrel' politics where they bring home the pork (i.e government $) to their areas. And its spent on all kinds of local projects, ......and local people get enriched in a variety of ways. Some more than others depending on how the money is apportioned.

They say 'vote for me and i'll bring home the bacon';. Its a less blatant than sticking a banknote in someone's pocket and asking for a vote.

The voter has to trust them to deliver because his payoff comes later. (And of course politicians often lie -........so then they get voted out next time).

Eg: the famous 'Bridge to nowhere' planned for Alaska, which resulted in a scandal as it was so pointless and daft.

.

Well it does not exist in the middle european countries of which I know whats going on. But I don't know much from USA/Canada/UK politic.

But such promises like reducing tax for blue color labor and take the money from the rich (Socialist parties) or even nonsense projects can not be compared with paying cash out of the own pocket to get elected.

It is not the same.

And even if there are some fraudulent things in other countries, I don't see how it makes the vote buying in Thailand better?

[Journalist]

Its a big difference, yes. I agree with you h90

Ok here's my solution !

1) Toughen up on ballot box security.

+

2) An education programme in which you tell the underclasses about the consequences of selling their vote.

+

3) You also tell them that they can still vote for who they like EVEN IF someone has given them cash. (So its not selling their vote)

+

4)you put in the voting booths duplicate ballot papers, so if the briber has told them to photograph their ballot, they can do so, and chuck it in the bin.

I'm kind of brainstorming, but mightn't this work, ........its better than a countrywide stalemate. Chamlong says himself the underclasses need educating about democracy.

[Thai at Heart]

Its a big difference, yes. I agree with you h90

Ok here's my solution !

1) Toughen up on ballot box security.

+

2) An education programme in which you tell the underclasses about the consequences of selling their vote.

+

3) You also tell them that they can still vote for who they like EVEN IF someone has given them cash. (So its not selling their vote)

+

4)you put in the voting booths duplicate ballot papers, so if the briber has told them to photograph their ballot, they can do so, and chuck it in the bin.

I'm kind of brainstorming, but mightn't this work, ........its better than a countrywide stalemate. Chamlong says himself the underclasses need educating about democracy.

Everyone needs education about democracy, but it seems that PAD would prefer not to improve on the current system, but simply throw it in the bin because if elections were performed to their liking, it probably wouldn't deliver the result they want.

It would appear that the idea of going to the most absolute of efforts to achieve a clean ballot doesn't figure in anyone's ideology. Stupidly people believe that it is beyond Thailand's capability to do so, so throw the baby out with the bathwater and arrive at "New Politics".

If PAD prevails it will be interesting to see what if anything is taught to people in 30 years about these sad days in Thailand.

[animatic]

Why can they not use Western simple logic ...

Western logic like the differences of "opinion" between the Brits & IRA?? ETA and Spain?? In Chiapas Mexico ?? South Africa & advocates for or against apartheid??

I hope the violence in Thailand, and everywhere else for that matter, ceases and the causes for it are resolved, but to suggest that this is some failing in Thai or Asian logic in comparison to life in farangland where all is serene & blissful and disagreements are settled over tea is, once again, hogwash.

Violence results when greedy people either want to maintain the status quo or they want to disrupt the status quo, or when people with long standing grievances find no reasonable way of resolving those grievances or are impatient with the process for change. It's abhorent because innocent people or at least people protesting in a reasonable manner, are injured or killed. Unfortunately it is sometimes effective in forcing change. It is not, however, some singular failing of Thais or Asians, nor is it a problem people in the west have risen above.

It continually amazes me that people who have come to live in Thailand must constantly and in all cases resort to us versus them mentality in viewing anything that happens. People do horrible things to one another everywhere in the world. Whether it's out of frustration, due to alleged righteous indignation, for personal enrichment ... whatever reason, it's sad. But these problems are problems everywhere. Attributing these problems to some unique failing of Thais or Asians or anyone who doesn't look like us and assuming that the world would be problem-free if only everyone acted like westerners is simply ridiculous and demonstrates that the concept of universal "Western logic" doesn't exist universally.

Yes, why do some suggest that: making any comment is arrogant if you are not born into the culture.

Either you see clearly or you don't. But if you do your observations and comments should be valid.

I find more than enough people willing to take me personally to task over Bush,

though I NEVER voted for him and argued against him for over 10 years...

But if I comment on THEIR land's oddities I am a pushy arrogant yank...

Total BS, useless nationalisyt carp and no one evern learns from people,

because they can't critiquie, only stroke.