4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[frodo]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

What law did the young girl break who was killed by a bomb? I can't seem to find anywhere that she had defied the police either.

[JoeInSurin]

-snip-

Conclusion:

The Government might not be legitimate and it is for the courts to decide not the PAD. If they have bought votes then dissolve them. It is for the courts to decide not PAD.

-snip-

Hi.

As i mentioned previously, the problem with that is that the government is able to amend the constitution so that they are no longer criminal despite having bought votes( So it's OK for the coup to ammend the constitution and not the legitimate (untill proven otherwise) government)! And they can (and will!) do that a lot faster than the court is able to dissolve the party.(So if I think someone is guilty of murder and will get the death penalty it is OK for me to shoot him and get the job done quicker and bypass law and the court system)

Which is why the PAD uses all available peaceful (like breaking in PBT and beating up the news anchor, blocking roads and preventing people getting to work and kids getting to school, hijaking buses, assaulting police and defying police orders) means to disturb the government in doing that. Because, don't you see it, this government doesn't give a rat's ass for the country or the people, it ONLY serves itself and Mr. T!

Still i (and i'm very much pro-PAD) do NOT accept the hijacking of civil buses. Because that is NOT what i see "peaceful". However it has yet to be found if that was really PAD (and has yet to be found not PAD)! because i, too, can wear a yellow shirt and go rob a bank. Does it make the PAD bank robbers..?? Even if i leave a note "thanks for the money, your PAD" doesn't mean it was them.

Regards.....

Thanh

[Moonrakers]

What I would like to know is:

So where are these 3 missing buses anyway? It's hardly like losing a box of matches now is it?

[JoeInSurin]

JoeinSurin --- again I repeat my invitation for you to go back and read the thread about that day and the results of the forensics and analysis by international groups. Yes when you fire weapons containing RDX directly at people instead of in an arc, and when you use scads of it, and when it is military ordinance then obviously it was meant to cause grievous bodily harm and in fact did kill and maim innocent people.

No, just because YOU have an opinion that the innocent victims of the police that day deserved to die, does not make that true.

These things don't happen to people abiding by the law and not trying to defy and fight the police. Trying to make the police doing their job look like the victim is an old trick that no one but a fool would fall for.

You seen to hold any news that would support your PAD as fact and anything else as "LOL" .

[marquess]

Female protesters assault deputy Metropolitan Police Division chief

DON MUANG: -- Female protesters assaulted a deputy commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 4 at the Don Muang Airport Monday evening.

The protesters booed Pol Col Phatchara Boonyaprasit while he walking from the canteen at the airport at 5:15 pm. Several spat at him and many threw water bottles at him.

At one moment, he was pushed until he fell over and the back of his head hit a barricade.

After he fell down, several protesters kicked him and threw water bottles at him again until other policemen came to rescue him and took him away.

-- The Nation 2008-11-24

Pity it wasn't Thaksin himself, he would have deserved it!

[animatic]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

Oh, you automatically assume she was breaking the law, so deserved to die.

Being there doesn't mean you are breaking the law.

There is not one shred of evidense that she did anything, but give moral support and watch.

ALL people are vulnerable to malicious attack from armed attackers.

Sorry the Police way over reacted, didn't have the right ordinance, didn't know who to use it properly,

used it maliciously and continued to used it maliciously after surrounding the group and preventing their exit.

You apologizing for the police's actions on Oct 7th is pathetic. I've seen the videos and it is indefensible carnage.

[JoeInSurin]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

What law did the young girl break who was killed by a bomb? I can't seem to find anywhere that she had defied the police either.

Taking over the Parliament and not letting the government go to work is not breaking the law?? Maybe you are right? This might be your lawful right as a Thai citizen.

[Nampeung]

Tension decreases in Bangkok as protesters declare victory, PM not resigning

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/...nt_10406122.htm

[Ricardo]

I would suggest that the new Constitution, prepared during the junta-appointed government's time in power, was at least voted-for by a majority of the people in a referendum.

The problem with any PPP-led coalition-government attempt to impose their own modifications, to that Constitution, is that they appear to be trying to do so without any attempt to consult the people. And to be trying to rush this through, before the courts disband the PPP for electoral misdeeds, bringing the government down.

Hence the problems on the streets right now.

The current Constitution is undoubtedly imperfect, all sides would want to modify it to some degree, why is it so hard for the government to do this in a consensual way ?

Unless the changes are ratified by the voters, how can anybody claim that such modifications are democratic, rather than an imposed white-wash to satisfy only the needs of of the PPP's paymaster in Dubai ?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

( So it's OK for the coup to ammend the constitution and not the legitimate (untill proven otherwise) government) Yes, because any other action would have failed. If criminals make law, justice has no power.

.(So if I think someone is guilty of murder and will get the death penalty it is OK for me to shoot him and get the job done quicker and bypass law and the court system) Nope, you usually pt them in jail for some time first. If the PPP were in jail or at least barred from doing politics (as they would anywhere in the west!) until the court comes to it's conclusion, we wouldn't need any PAD or other mob. ARE they in jail?? Not even their mastermind, despite already convicted (!) and sentenced (!!!) is in jail.

(like breaking in PBT and beating up the news anchor, blocking roads and preventing people getting to work and kids getting to school, hijaking buses, assaulting police and defying police orders) Nope. I strongly detest violence. Blocking roads however doesn't hurt anyone - i'm stuck in traffic for hours daily without any protest marches or sit-ins, as is probably everyone working in Bangkok. People not getting to work because a road is blocked? Jeez... ever heard of "alternative routes"? Would require a brain though, not sure if that feature is installed in everyone who states "boohoo they block a road, i can't get to work". Assaulting police? Come on, WHO assaulted WHO there??? Hijacking buses? DEFINITELY NOT.

(and has yet to be found not PAD So lets wait for the findings before we continue on that one, shall we?

Best regards.....

Thanh

[hammered]

JoeinSurin --- again I repeat my invitation for you to go back and read the thread about that day and the results of the forensics and analysis by international groups. Yes when you fire weapons containing RDX directly at people instead of in an arc, and when you use scads of it, and when it is military ordinance then obviously it was meant to cause grievous bodily harm and in fact did kill and maim innocent people.

No, just because YOU have an opinion that the innocent victims of the police that day deserved to die, does not make that true.

These things don't happen to people abiding by the law and not trying to defy and fight the police. Trying to make the police doing their job look like the victim is an old trick that no one but a fool would fall for.

You seen to hold any news that would support your PAD as fact and anything else as "LOL" .

Ive seen police in more than one western country beat peaceful protestors who were trying to get out of the way. I doubt its different in Thailand.

I am not trying to defend the PAD. It is the way of how demonstrations are handled worldwide. It usually goes with painting a picture of a scary mob for public cionsumption which may or may not be true

[bangon04]

Not a Sondhi fan personally but some might be supportive of the PAD since Thailand loses perhaps up to 1/3 of their GDP (equivalent) to corruption, collusion and nepotism annually... .

I still say, divide Thaksin's frozen 76 billion among every man woman and child in Thailand and problem solved (Thaksin goes away rejected, Thailand gets peace and the economy gets a jump-start - the perfect ending)

Wow that is a really important figure - 1/3 of GDP - where did that information come from?

I agree that nationalising the 76 billion will give the less well off north easterners the chance to show how circumspect and prudent they can be with money when they get the chance...

[Los78]

The bottom line is the Government in power now is in power legally untill they are dissolved by the courts for vote buying or something else. It is also legal for the police to use tear gas to disperse a mob. The PAD is clearly taking things into their hands that they have no right to do so and have broken many laws.

Conclusion:

The Government might not be legitimate and it is for the courts to decide not the PAD. If they have bought votes then dissolve them. It is for the courts to decide not PAD.

The police were doing their job and should have not backed down and should have ended the PAD rally for good. It is their job and they did not get it done. I people get hurt while breaking the law they should not try to make the police doing their job the victim.

PAD breaking the law and trying to overthrow the government by personal means that are illegal and not within the court system should not be tolerated by anyone that belives in democracy.

Exactly.... This is how things are in Australia, USA, Korea, Japan and other democratic governments. I dont see why police should not do their job like elsewhere. PAD are taking over buses, buildings not to mention the vast damage they cause each time they go on their merry protests. It makes me wonder how PAD apologists dont admit that PAD are treated that they are above the law.

[JoeInSurin]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

Oh, you automatically assume she was breaking the law, so deserved to die.

Being there doesn't mean you are breaking the law.

There is not one shred of evidense that she did anything, but give moral support and watch.

ALL people are vulnerable to malicious attack from armed attackers.

Sorry the Police way over reacted, didn't have the right ordinance, didn't know who to use it properly,

used it maliciously and continued to used it maliciously after surrounding the group and preventing their exit.

You apologizing for the police's actions on Oct 7th is pathetic. I've seen the videos and it is indefensible carnage.

Do you think the police knew the cheap China tear gas would kill people and wanted that outcome. What happened on Oct. 7th went wrong but do you think that was their intent? Things can go wrong (and did) in a mob. If you are not trying to ubstruct the government and are going about your daily life at home and let the court system work these things should not happen to you.

[anon467367354]

I fear a civil war between north and south. The battleground will be Bangkok. This is s Buddhist country. How can all this happen? It's so sad.

to say you are a Buddhist is really not a part of the teachings. To label oneself is a violent act of separation from the whole. I wouldn't label myself a Christian or a Buddhist so as to not be associated with such bad behavior. How does one label a drop of water after becoming part of the ocean? Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.......

The Pythagorean Principle

“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.”

—Pythagoras

“First, live a compassionate life. Then you will know.”

—Buddha

"All beings tremble before violence.

All fear death.

All love life.

See yourself in others.

Then whom can you hurt?

What harm can you do?"

-----Buddha

It is the conflict in the individual mind that manifests as war. When individuals change, the society will automatically change.

— Amma

[jdinasia]

Exactly.... This is how things are in Australia, USA, Korea, Japan and other democratic governments. I dont see why police should not do their job like elsewhere. PAD are taking over buses, buildings not to mention the vast damage they cause each time they go on their merry protests. It makes me wonder how PAD apologists dont admit that PAD are treated that they are above the law.

Please provide some evidence where the police in Australia or the USA have fired military spec tear-gas in vast quantities killing random people.

500,000 people protested in Los Angeles recently and wow! No RDX loaded tear-gas was used!

I am neither denying OR accepting that legit PAD elements hijacked busses, but will concede they in fact did if that bears out!

Tell us all about the "vast damage they cause each time they go on their merry protests"!

But you are right a quick google of "police kill protesters" gives this ...

Pakistani police say they have shot dead at least six people during protests against military operations in the north-western area of Swat.

More than a dozen others were injured when police opened fire on hundreds of protesters in the city of Mingora.

Police say they fired to prevent banks being looted. Locals are angry at army shelling which they say killed five people in the area earlier this week.

Police in Kenya shot 10 people dead today as protests against the disputed re-election of President Mwai Kibaki continued, reports said.

Raila Odinga, the leader of the opposition Orange Democratic movement (ODM), said seven of his supporters had been killed in the capital, Nairobi. An eyewitness said a further three people were shot in Kisumu.

The reported deaths came on the second of three days of planned demonstrations by the ODM.

"Today, seven people have been killed in Kasarani constituency," Odinga told Reuters. "Police are shooting innocent civilians at will ... the government has turned this country into a killing field of innocents."

Police in Nepal opened fire on protesters demonstrating against the rule of the king, killing at least three. Thousands of Nepalis had defied a curfew in Kathmandu and other cities and took to the streets to demand King Gyanendra give up the absolute powers he seized last year.

Nowhere in the first 8 pages of results was a Developed Nation's police involved in killing people to end a protest.

in fact ... there was one story about concern that Canadian sold weapons in the hands of police in PNG killed protesters!

Edited November 24, 2008 by jdinasia

[Bangyai]

[Do you really think that the police using the cheap China tear gas really wanted to kill people. The milk that came from China that killed babys was it used by mothers to kill their babys? The dog food that came from China that killed pets was it use by pet owners to kill their dogs? The lead paint that was on Mattel toys was it use by parents to give their children lead poisoning? The paint dots toy that the paint was found to have the same chemicals as Extacy was it used by parents to hook their kids on drugs? Do you think the police knew it was defective and would kill people rather than disperse people as its intended purpose?

Yes, it is agreed that the police use of teargas was responsible for a girls death and many injuries. However, to suggest that this was intentional on the part of every policeman that fired a round is hyperbole. Since the adverage policeman does not use teargas in his normal duties it is far more probable that they had no proper training in the use of it and absolutely no idea of the damage it could do. Cutting corners in proper training and buying cheap and dangerous goods from China are to blame for the casualty list.

But in any case, in JoeIn Surins post I can nowhere find him using the phrase that " the girl deserved to die " . Could someone highlight that please ? Or is that more hyperbole too ?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

On the "teargas" topic, after they, early in the attack, became aware what sort of "damage" that stuff can do, why then did they keep on using it?? Specifically firing it straight into the crowd despite KNOWING and HAVING OBSERVED the things going off like bombs??

The word for it is "intent".

Regards.....

Thanh

[h90]

Not a Sondhi fan personally but some might be supportive of the PAD since Thailand loses perhaps up to 1/3 of their GDP (equivalent) to corruption, collusion and nepotism annually... .

I still say, divide Thaksin's frozen 76 billion among every man woman and child in Thailand and problem solved (Thaksin goes away rejected, Thailand gets peace and the economy gets a jump-start - the perfect ending)

Wow that is a really important figure - 1/3 of GDP - where did that information come from?

I agree that nationalising the 76 billion will give the less well off north easterners the chance to show how circumspect and prudent they can be with money when they get the chance...

On the Fire trucks there were 50 % of the total corruption.

On many things we need to pay 5-10 % for purchasing decision maker.

many smaller companies with chinese owner do not need 1 Baht=0 corruption

Our shipments comming with Fedex, TNT have 0 corruption

Our shipments with EMS we pay import tax only under the table...every time we don't accept EMS anymore.

I was there when a friend run mad a few years ago as the TRT wanted 10 % instead of the usual 5 % when he built a school and refused it.

I am not sure of the 1/3. It seems too high. While Mega-Projects might be at 50 %. therefor everyone focus on that Megaprojects.

[LaoPo]

Numbers anyone?

Just how many protesters are there actually on the streets of Bangkok?

The only estimates I've seen for yesterday were 40,000 in the Post (quoted in the last thread) and "from a half to a third of the expected number" from AP (also quoted in the last thread) which would give from 25 to 33 thousand from PAD's dream of having 100,000 turn out. Give them 40,000, or even 50,000 and that's still less people than turn out for a good English football match! Coupled with the other quote in the last thread that support at Gov Hse. was dwindling away to no more than 5000 hard core protesters on a day to day basis, makes me think that the vast mass of Thailand's population want nothing more to do with Sondhi and his bunch of clowns.

And then Jai Dee reports that "100 protesters have reached Don Muang"..........ONE HUNDRED, and they think this gives them a mandate to overthrow the Government (however inept this present one may be). I've been watching the live coverage on TV (not ASTV - I don't get the cartoon channel), and while there were certainly crowds, a good few thousand or so, it was nothing like the mass uprising that PAD have hyped it up to be.

PAD may well be right about one thing. This probably will be the final attempt, I don't think the next one would be big enough to even make the news!

I haven't read the entire 10 or 11 pages of this thread yet but this is from a report by the BBC:

"Police said around 18,000 demonstrators had taken to the streets, blocking roads leading to parliament. Some groups had marched on the police headquarters and the finance ministry."

That's a bit less than the 100,000 protesters the PAD was aiming to bring from Hat Yai in the south alone, with buses...

LaoPo

[JoeInSurin]

Exactly.... This is how things are in Australia, USA, Korea, Japan and other democratic governments. I dont see why police should not do their job like elsewhere. PAD are taking over buses, buildings not to mention the vast damage they cause each time they go on their merry protests. It makes me wonder how PAD apologists dont admit that PAD are treated that they are above the law.

Please provide some evidence where the police in Australia or the USA have fired military spec tear-gas in vast quantities killing random people.

500,000 people protested in Los Angeles recently and wow! No RDX loaded tear-gas was used!

I am neither denying OR accepting that legit PAD elements hijacked busses, but will concede they in fact did if that bears out!

Tell us all about the "vast damage they cause each time they go on their merry protests"!

But you are right a quick google of "police kill protesters" gives this ...

Pakistani police say they have shot dead at least six people during protests against military operations in the north-western area of Swat.

More than a dozen others were injured when police opened fire on hundreds of protesters in the city of Mingora.

Police say they fired to prevent banks being looted. Locals are angry at army shelling which they say killed five people in the area earlier this week.

Police in Kenya shot 10 people dead today as protests against the disputed re-election of President Mwai Kibaki continued, reports said.

Raila Odinga, the leader of the opposition Orange Democratic movement (ODM), said seven of his supporters had been killed in the capital, Nairobi. An eyewitness said a further three people were shot in Kisumu.

The reported deaths came on the second of three days of planned demonstrations by the ODM.

"Today, seven people have been killed in Kasarani constituency," Odinga told Reuters. "Police are shooting innocent civilians at will ... the government has turned this country into a killing field of innocents."

Police in Nepal opened fire on protesters demonstrating against the rule of the king, killing at least three. Thousands of Nepalis had defied a curfew in Kathmandu and other cities and took to the streets to demand King Gyanendra give up the absolute powers he seized last year.

Nowhere in the first 8 pages of results was a Developed Nation's police involved in killing people to end a protest.

in fact ... there was one story about concern that Canadian sold weapons in the hands of police in PNG killed protesters!

These people were using guns meaning to kill. To say the Thai Police were doing the same is pure propaganda. The tear gas used by the police bought from the USA worked as intended the cheap China crap did not. To say they wanted to kill the protesters is foolish. At the rate you are going you could work for George Bush to justify the WMD's.

[Crushdepth]

Why? Because I can't find any reasonable explanation for the visa cancellation of Thaksin,

when criminals / terrorists of banned organizations etc live and carry on with their trade

under the nose of SY within the protective umbrella of "political refugee".

If Thaksin had been minding his own business he probably would have got his UK visa. You can say what you like about the brits but the fact is that the UK government won't tolerate being used as a safe haven for convicted criminals hel_l bent on the political destablisation of friendly countries. There was no chance he was going to get asylum or anything else while he's stirring up trouble.

And you can take it from his visa cancellation that he *is* actively stirring up trouble.

[frodo]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

What law did the young girl break who was killed by a bomb? I can't seem to find anywhere that she had defied the police either.

Taking over the Parliament and not letting the government go to work is not breaking the law?? Maybe you are right? This might be your lawful right as a Thai citizen.

Again, please direct me to a specific area where it clearly states that this young woman broke the law by taking over Parliament. Your claim that she was a lawbreaker is absolute rubbish and there is nothing to support your claim reagarding the young girl in question.

[Kerryd]

I still say, divide Thaksin's frozen 76 billion among every man woman and child in Thailand and problem solved (Thaksin goes away rejected, Thailand gets peace and the economy gets a jump-start - the perfect ending)

I hardly think giving everyone in the country approx 1,250 baht will solve all the problems, but might make for a couple good parties.

I'm surprised that no one has declared a State of Emergency in Bangkok (yet).

Is it just in the US, or do other "democracies" allow their citizens the "right to assemble" ?

And if people were to recall, when PAD first occupied Government House, a court ordered them to leave. However, they appealed that ruling and have been allowed to remain until such time as the appeal is heard in court.

So technically, until the appeal is heard, they have the right to be there. The justice system has not yet determined if their "occupation" is legal or not.

It does seem odd to me that there are so many out there, that think a government that was fraudulently elected, should be allowed to remain in power, and amend the Constitution to not only make their criminal activities legal, but those of their puppet master as well.

And gees, all the people have to do is wait 3, 4, 5 (or more) years until the next election before they, the people that should be the power behind the government, get to finally voice their say. What a great deal ! Only a few more years of corruption, fraud, theft and assorted other criminal activities to endure !

And if during that time the sitting government amends a few laws, outlaws some (opposing) political parties, cracks down even further on the press and sets themselves up for another election victory by whatever means, shucks gosh golly darn, too bad so sad for the people of Thailand. If they break any laws to win the next election, no problem, simply amend the laws and Constitution after the fact to make it all legal !

And some here seem to think that is just fine and dandy. Some seem to think that the people should just accept it, kow-tow down, and hope that the government will suddenly become honest during the next election.

As "V" stated in the movie, "People should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of it's people."

That is a sign of a true democracy.

After all, it is the people that give power to the government, not the other way around. Your government is supposed to work for you.

You elect it. You empower it to operate on your behalf. And if it doesn't, then it is up to you to change it.

Preferably in a peaceful manner, such as elections. But when the government is willing to break the law to (fraudulently) win those elections, then it is up to the people to enforce change through other means.

(And no, I am not pro-PAD. I don't particularly like their "plan" for government any more than I like the way the current government has corrupted democracy in Thailand)

[h90]

in my office arrive a group with children.

On my opinion that everything is just too easy they told me, that there was a big amount of police in the zoo, one guard could see the police dig bombs somewhere so PAD quickly moved away from parliament, because that was designed as trap.

Some more things I didn't understood fully. but they wanted to leave the kids here as they worry for a bloodshed (in their stupid thinking "can be dead for the king") they put the kids out of danger.

Hope nothing too bad will happen.

[TAWP]

Do you think the police knew the cheap China tear gas would kill people and wanted that outcome.

It's part of their training to know what the effect of the equipment has.

Failure to do so makes them responsible for the outcome.

Oh, and so you know, the first teargas grenade was captured on film and it's effect was clearly visible. Anyone with any training whatsoever handling the [less lethal] weapons could see what was happening. Are you saying the police is so poorly trained they cannot even put two and two together and understand the risk of firing explosive teargas grenades directly at people? Perhaps then it isn't only training that is lacking, apparently atleast one digit of IQ...

[jdinasia]

These people were using guns meaning to kill. To say the Thai Police were doing the same is pure propaganda. The tear gas used by the police bought from the USA worked as intended the cheap China crap did not. To say they wanted to kill the protesters is foolish. At the rate you are going you could work for George Bush to justify the WMD's.

Again I invite you to go back and watch the videos of the events that day and read the threads and articles by the observers. The police were WAY over the top. They killed protesters and injured hundreds more! They were border police brought in to punish the protesters and that is exactly what they did. You state that police anywhere would do this but when the only reports from that search returned repressive and totalitarian governments in developing nations then you switch to ... but they meant to kill. So are you now arguing that using that volume of chinese military ordinance fired directly at the protesters in massive quantities was 'accidental'? If so then who is responsible for it? Remember, these people were non-violently assembled to protest the government and had been given no lawful orders to disperse.

[JoeInSurin]

Again, please direct me to a specific area where it clearly states that this young woman broke the law by taking over Parliament. Your claim that she was a lawbreaker is absolute rubbish and there is nothing to support your claim reagarding the young girl in question.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131152 Here is the support to show your claim is rubbish. Or maybe you think siegeing Parliament and erecting barricades is lawful.

[animatic]

I hardly think giving everyone in the country approx 1,250 baht will solve all the problems, but might make for a couple good parties.

I'm surprised that no one has declared a State of Emergency in Bangkok (yet).

Is it just in the US, or do other "democracies" allow their citizens the "right to assemble" ?

And if people were to recall, when PAD first occupied Government House, a court ordered them to leave. However, they appealed that ruling and have been allowed to remain until such time as the appeal is heard in court.

So technically, until the appeal is heard, they have the right to be there. The justice system has not yet determined if their "occupation" is legal or not.

It does seem odd to me that there are so many out there, that think a government that was fraudulently elected, should be allowed to remain in power, and amend the Constitution to not only make their criminal activities legal, but those of their puppet master as well.

And gees, all the people have to do is wait 3, 4, 5 (or more) years until the next election before they, the people that should be the power behind the government, get to finally voice their say. What a great deal ! Only a few more years of corruption, fraud, theft and assorted other criminal activities to endure !

And if during that time the sitting government amends a few laws, outlaws some (opposing) political parties, cracks down even further on the press and sets themselves up for another election victory by whatever means, shucks gosh golly darn, too bad so sad for the people of Thailand. If they break any laws to win the next election, no problem, simply amend the laws and Constitution after the fact to make it all legal !

And some here seem to think that is just fine and dandy. Some seem to think that the people should just accept it, kow-tow down, and hope that the government will suddenly become honest during the next election.

As "V" stated in the movie, "People should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of it's people."

That is a sign of a true democracy.

After all, it is the people that give power to the government, not the other way around. Your government is supposed to work for you.

You elect it. You empower it to operate on your behalf. And if it doesn't, then it is up to you to change it.

Preferably in a peaceful manner, such as elections. But when the government is willing to break the law to (fraudulently) win those elections, then it is up to the people to enforce change through other means.

(And no, I am not pro-PAD. I don't particularly like their "plan" for government any more than I like the way the current government has corrupted democracy in Thailand)

Very well said.

The government serves ALL the people, not just the select few and their friends.

Absolution comes from above not from yourself and your friends for crimes against others.

This government is corrupt at the core and 4 more years will bring only tears

and penury for the coming generation of Thai children.

This goes to explain why so many MOTHERS of less than young age are at the PAD rallys.

They want a FUTURE for their children and grandchildren.

I am not surprised there has been an anti-PAD Troll fest today, PAD got all the press,

and many felt a need to vent and vent and vent.

KneeJERK, 2, 3, 4, kneeJERK, 2, 3, 4.

Edited November 24, 2008 by animatic

[jdinasia]

Joe, sorry again but your premise that attacking people with lethal weapons is an acceptable way to disperse a crowd (that had been given no legal order to disperse) is asinine!

If you want a link that would be good reading for you and quotes Thailand's most respected and independent FORENSICS EXPERT as well as including quotes from a very important person in Thailand you should look at this.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131399