Giving Birth: Thailand Or England?

[davos01]

Hi Guys,

My Thai fiance is 3 months pregnant!!! We are both very happy and excited and obviously have a lot to prepare for before the baby arrives (June 2009).

We both live together here in Thailand and will be getting married early next year. We haven't decided yet whether the baby will be born here or in the UK. (I'm a British Citizen).

I would appreciate information from those of you who have returned to the UK for birth, we would be leaving Thailand together if we were to proceed on that route.

I'm aware it would be a lot more straight forward to give birth here but we want to consider all options. What are the advantages and disadvantages for giving birth in each Country?

Information on visas, even possible settlement in the UK after the birth would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance

Edited November 25, 2008 by davos01

[Boo]

Regardless of where your gf gives birth, the child will be entitled to both thai & british citizenship. If you are looking to have the baby in the UK be aware that a lot of airlines dont' allow pregnant woment o travel after 6-7 months & that if she did arrive in Uk at this late time would have a hard time getting a midwife & registered at a doctors in time for the birth, so if you do go, go asap.

Also, visas. Your gf would need to apply for a fiancee visa which means you would have to get married within 6 months of arriving in the UK she would not be able to go on a tourist visa & then stay to have the baby as she would not be entitled to NHS care. if you were to marry before applying then she woul dget a resindency visa but fyi, expected processing times are around 3 months, so again, cutting it a bit fine to get over, register at a doctos, get refeerred to a midwife & get comforatble with the UK ways before having the baby.

Is there any reason why you would want to have the baby in the UK if you both live in Thailand & she is already 3 months gone?

[ArranP]

Whilst regardless of where your gf gives birth, the child will be entitled to both thai & british citizenship, but it does affect the citizenship of your grand-children!

If you give birth to your child in Thailand, your grand-children will not be entitled to british citizenship if born in Thailand, where-as if your child is born in the UK, then your grand-children will be entitled to both thai & british citizenhship regardless of where they are born.

If your child is born in the UK, you will be entitled to Family allowance, £250 when the child is born and approx £15.00 per week, every week until your child reaches 16. Good to put into a Child Trust Fund until the child reaches 16.

My wife and I recently had our child in U.K. and will return Thailand later, we are finding the experience very well. We did not make our decision to have our child in the UK for any of the above points.

Edited November 25, 2008 by ArranP

[mizzi39]

Congratulations!

[Boo]

If your child is born in the UK, you will be entitled to Family allowance, £250 when the child is born and approx £15.00 per week, every week until your child reaches 16. Good to put into a Child Trust Fund until the child reaches 16.

If they move to the UK at anytime before thei child turns 16 they will be able to claim family allowance from that date on, any moves full time to thailand & the benefit office should be told as these payments will no longer be paid (eligabilty is based on living full time in UK)

[jack31]

Whilst regardless of where your gf gives birth, the child will be entitled to both thai & british citizenship, but it does affect the citizenship of your grand-children!

If you give birth to your child in Thailand, your grand-children will not be entitled to british citizenship if born in Thailand, where-as if your child is born in the UK, then your grand-children will be entitled to both thai & british citizenhship regardless of where they are born.

If your child is born in the UK, you will be entitled to Family allowance, £250 when the child is born and approx £15.00 per week, every week until your child reaches 16. Good to put into a Child Trust Fund until the child reaches 16.

My wife and I recently had our child in U.K. and will return Thailand later, we are finding the experience very well. We did not make our decision to have our child in the UK for any of the above points.

hi guys, i have read this particular post with interest and i am baffled. my son was born in thailand and has dual citizenship. he is now living in the uk.

i was under the impression that if in the future he decides to have kids then they will be entitled to become a british citizen no matter where the child is born. can someone please clarify this for me. thanks

[mrbojangles]

hi guys, i have read this particular post with interest and i am baffled. my son was born in thailand and has dual citizenship. he is now living in the uk.

i was under the impression that if in the future he decides to have kids then they will be entitled to become a british citizen no matter where the child is born. can someone please clarify this for me. thanks

These are the rules. The bit i have highlighted in Red is, i think, specific to your question.

British Citizenship by descent

'British Citizenship by descent' is the category for the children born outside the UK to a British citizen. Rules for acquiring British citizenship by descent depend on when the person was born.

From 1983

A child born outside the UK on or after 1 January 1983 will automatically acquire British citizenship by descent if either parent is a British citizen otherwise than by descent at the time of the birth.

Only one parent needs to be British otherwise than by descent - either the father or the mother.

An unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of children born before 1 July 2006. Although, if the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally will become a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship.

Failing the above, the child can be registered as British if it would have been British if parents were married and application is made before the child is 18.

Where the parent is a British citizen by descent additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, the parent is normally expected to have lived in the UK for three years and apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth.

For British nationality purposes, the Isle of Man and Channel Islands are treated as though they were part of the UK.

Before 21 May 2002, British Overseas Territories were treated as 'overseas' for nationality purposes. The exception was the Falkland Islands. For children born on or after 21 May 2002 in a British Overseas Territory (other than the Sovereign Base Areas of Cyprus) there is an entitlement to British citizenship on the same basis as UK-born children.

Children born overseas to parents on Crown Service are normally granted British citizenship otherwise than by descent. In other words, their status is the same as it would have been had they been born in the UK.

In exceptional cases, the Home Secretary may register a child of parents who are British by descent as a British citizen under discretionary provisions, for example if the child is stateless.

[jack31]

hi guys, i have read this particular post with interest and i am baffled. my son was born in thailand and has dual citizenship. he is now living in the uk.

i was under the impression that if in the future he decides to have kids then they will be entitled to become a british citizen no matter where the child is born. can someone please clarify this for me. thanks

These are the rules. The bit i have highlighted in Red is, i think, specific to your question.

British Citizenship by descent

'British Citizenship by descent' is the category for the children born outside the UK to a British citizen. Rules for acquiring British citizenship by descent depend on when the person was born.

From 1983

A child born outside the UK on or after 1 January 1983 will automatically acquire British citizenship by descent if either parent is a British citizen otherwise than by descent at the time of the birth.

Only one parent needs to be British otherwise than by descent - either the father or the mother.

An unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of children born before 1 July 2006. Although, if the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally will become a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship.

Failing the above, the child can be registered as British if it would have been British if parents were married and application is made before the child is 18.

Where the parent is a British citizen by descent additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, the parent is normally expected to have lived in the UK for three years and apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth.

For British nationality purposes, the Isle of Man and Channel Islands are treated as though they were part of the UK.

Before 21 May 2002, British Overseas Territories were treated as 'overseas' for nationality purposes. The exception was the Falkland Islands. For children born on or after 21 May 2002 in a British Overseas Territory (other than the Sovereign Base Areas of Cyprus) there is an entitlement to British citizenship on the same basis as UK-born children.

Children born overseas to parents on Crown Service are normally granted British citizenship otherwise than by descent. In other words, their status is the same as it would have been had they been born in the UK.

In exceptional cases, the Home Secretary may register a child of parents who are British by descent as a British citizen under discretionary provisions, for example if the child is stateless.

cheers buddy

[bkkmick]

We (well, my wife!) had both our kids here in Bangkok (BNH, Soi Convent) and the service and nursing was excellent.

The only advantage of having your kid in the UK that I can think of is that the birth would be covered by the NHS but, on the other hand, you'd have to pay for the cost of the flights!

I think the cost is around 50k (or there abouts) for a private room.

[TPE]

Likewise my daughter born in LOS. Was happpy with a private room for around 40k, but Mrs wanted thai/normal ... so went to Ramatipodee Hospital, which was near our Apartment in Victory Monument. Went in the morning, had baby that night, great care, sent home 2 days later, total cost about 4000 bt. !

Had to use mothers family name, but got a kiwi passport [ and criteria same as for UK] immediately, through being NZ by descent, and after we returned to NZ a few years later, just changed her family name by deed poll.

Either / or no probs, but suggest go with what makes your wife happy, and certainly I would have no doubts about Thai hospitals/care.

Once school age started to loom, - I did feel she was better off out of the kingdom, hence the reason I left, and likewise, that is a move, [ for my daughters sake] that I certainly dont regret.

Best wishes to you and the 'family'

Edited December 4, 2008 by TPE

[wineaux]

Hi Guys,

My Thai fiance is 3 months pregnant!!! We are both very happy and excited and obviously have a lot to prepare for before the baby arrives (June 2009).

We both live together here in Thailand and will be getting married early next year. We haven't decided yet whether the baby will be born here or in the UK. (I'm a British Citizen).

I would appreciate information from those of you who have returned to the UK for birth, we would be leaving Thailand together if we were to proceed on that route.

I'm aware it would be a lot more straight forward to give birth here but we want to consider all options. What are the advantages and disadvantages for giving birth in each Country?

Information on visas, even possible settlement in the UK after the birth would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance

Thats an easy one. Only go to the UK if you absolutely must.

My (Thai) Wife gave birth in Thailand and when we went to England this summer we soon realised that our experience was much, much better than anyone of our friends in England. Save the flight fare and have it here, your wife will thank you for it. Your child will be able to get both Thai and British passports for life.

[manjara]

We had both our daughters here at Bumrungrad, the cost was around 40-50k (excluding all the prenatal visits to the doctor, for scans etc). The care here is great, though I think perhaps there is more 'after-care' in the UK with Health Visitors and the other support structures.

Once we got out of the hospital, we were pretty much on our own unless we requested help. It can be quite daunting and there are definitely things I would do differently now, though returning to the UK is not one of them.

If your wife doesn't speak English that well and hasn't been to the UK before, then it will be a lot for her to cope with. If it's her first baby then being somewhere where she is understood and has her family nearby is likely to be important to her.

[coventry]

We (well, my wife!) had both our kids here in Bangkok (BNH, Soi Convent) and the service and nursing was excellent.

The only advantage of having your kid in the UK that I can think of is that the birth would be covered by the NHS but, on the other hand, you'd have to pay for the cost of the flights!

I think the cost is around 50k (or there abouts) for a private room.

I cannot understand why so many farang pay for private hospitals when they're sick or having babies. For your Thai wife to have a baby in a government hospital it's free. Yes free. You can use a private doctor, if you wish, for the birth. Cost about 1,500 Baht, c section. Plus private room. about 600 per night.

Hernia operation in government hospital 10,000 Baht incl 3 night private room. Is there any difference between a private hospital and a government one ? Just the price.

[gunnyd]

Definitely the UK. If I had a choice it would have been the USA instead of LOS. Don't get me wrong, we have excellent doctors and a top notch level of care, but if your baby needs treatment in a NICU by a specialist the bill will go up exponentially.

E.G. Vejthani Hospital C-Section package 3 days in hospital 60K THB

My wife needed 16 hours in ICU after her C-section 130K THB

My babies were born 14 weeks premature so they needed and still need care in the NICU. Cost 50K THB EACH a day! We hit 1.5M THB inside of 2 weeks. Luckily when I had to tell the hospital that we had no more to give them, they have decided to cut us a break. They will be in the NICU for at least 2 more months, and in hospital 3-4 more months.

In the USA I have decent insurance and the most I have to pay for the entire family a year is $3000. I have already spent $60000 here. But the children can not be moved because of their condition.

And don't dismiss my advice because of the premature birth of out children. I have seen a dozen near and full term babies that have needed NICU care, mechanical ventilation, IVs, etc. since we have been at the hospital.

The cost of a couple of plane tickets is nothing compared to the unexpected. You never know whether your child will have complications that will need specialized care. Better to be in a Western country. Hindsight is always 20/20. Once you end up trapped in a situation like ours you have to pray, hope, pay, and wait.

And congrats, the best of luck to you and yours.

Edited December 15, 2008 by gunnyd

[coventry]

If you'd used the government hospital, treatment for your wife and babies it would have been free. Can someone please tell me why farangs insist on going private ? Is it cause you're farang and it's expected ? Is it cause you don't trust government doctors, even though they probably trained at the same colledge ? Is it cause your wife doesn't want to be in a room where others spit Betel Nut saliva into spitoons ?

[gunnyd]

If you'd used the government hospital, treatment for your wife and babies it would have been free. Can someone please tell me why farangs insist on going private ? Is it cause you're farang and it's expected ? Is it cause you don't trust government doctors, even though they probably trained at the same colledge ? Is it cause your wife doesn't want to be in a room where others spit Betel Nut saliva into spitoons ?

3 reasons:

NO NICU

ALL OF OUR BABIES WOULD BE DEAD!

And the main reason. Me and my wife have been patients at Vejthani Hospital for a couple of years. We had fertility treatment here. We trust the doctors here. We wanted the same doctors to follow us throughout her treatment and pregnancy. It has nothing to do with money. Believe me, I go to and have stayed in Veteran's Administration hospitals inpatient on more than one occasion.

And if we were at home in Phoenix Arizona we would be in a public hospital. Not because of the accommodations, but because the county hospital in Phoenix is the best equipped to handle our case. I am most concerned with my wife and our babies health not the decor of the hospital. If that was the case we would be at Bumrungrad International.

There are only 4 hospitals in Bangkok properly kitted for our particular case that can provide the level of acute care that our babies need, and the cheapest hospital is Vejthani.

Take your snobbery comments and [holds 2 fingers up] jackass..

Edited December 15, 2008 by gunnyd

[coventry]

There is no ICU in Thailand government hospitals. That's a lie

Who say's your babies would be dead ? Prove it ?

Me,I have one daughter, born via IVF age one year, and twins to be born (via IVF the same) in April. Born Government hospital Thailand both times. God willing.

The best hospital in your case are in Pheonix. Why is that ?

If your not concerned about the decor of the hospital, why remark on it ?

What is your particular case ?

Other than the fact that you're an American, one step higher than a piece of slime, you're no different to anyone else, even though you think you are. Just stick to killing innocent civilians and coalision troops, with airstrikes. It's what America is good at.

Have a nice day.

Edited December 16, 2008 by coventry

[Orac]

My wife is due in March and we have gone the other way - she had been living with me in England for 1 year but we decided that she would go back to Thailand to have the baby and I am now going backwards and forwards between the two. The main reason was that my wife was getting quite stressed partially due to her not being totally fluent in english (especially some of the more childbirth related terms!) and her also developing Diabetes in pregnancy. We felt it was important that she had the support of her family (particularly her mother) and was in more familiar surroundings. Since I went back with her last month the treatment from the local govt hospital appears to be as good as we were receiving here and she is much more relaxed. Also they are being much harsher with her on her diet due to the diabetes in Thailand than they were in the uk - they have threatened to hospitalize her and control her food if she doesn't do it herself!

The only draw back I am aware of (according to my wife) is that if it is a boy and born in Thailand he may be drafted into the army though I am sure there are ways round this !

[richard_smith237]

There is no ICU in Thailand government hospitals. That's a lie

Who say's your babies would be dead ? Prove it ?

Me,I have one daughter, born via IVF age one year, and twins to be born (via IVF the same) in April. Born Government hospital Thailand both times. God willing.

The best hospital in your case are in Pheonix. Why is that ?

If your not concerned about the decor of the hospital, why remark on it ?

What is your particular case ?

Other than the fact that you're an American, one step higher than a piece of slime, you're no different to anyone else, even though you think you are. Just stick to killing innocent civilians and coalision troops, with airstrikes. It's what America is good at.

Have a nice day.

Any valid argument that you may have had or thought you had has been ruined by being silly enough to make personal slurs.

In the future I will have children and have been reading this thread out of interested in people’s experience. Personal attacks such as this help no one and only succeed in persuading people such as myself that you are not intelligent enough to make a sensible decision.

For the benefit of others please maintain your composure and keep insults away from these informative threads.

(And for the record, I'm not American)

[gunnyd]

There is no ICU in Thailand government hospitals. That's a lie

Who say's your babies would be dead ? Prove it ?

Me,I have one daughter, born via IVF age one year, and twins to be born (via IVF the same) in April. Born Government hospital Thailand both times. God willing.

The best hospital in your case are in Pheonix. Why is that ?

If your not concerned about the decor of the hospital, why remark on it ?

What is your particular case ?

Other than the fact that you're an American, one step higher than a piece of slime, you're no different to anyone else, even though you think you are. Just stick to killing innocent civilians and coalision troops, with airstrikes. It's what America is good at.

Have a nice day.

Let's see:

My triplets were born 14 weeks premature.

I did not say there was no ICUs in a government hospital. There are no proper NICUs (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit) in any government hospitals. How do I know? I did my homework. Me and my wife spent 2 years travelling to Bangkok for IVF treatment. When we got the news that we were having triplets, I found out which hospitals with fully equipped NICUs and had experienced Neonatologists on staff.

We have an excellent team taking care of our two children. The team is headed by:

Professor Dr.Teerachai Chantarojanasiri, M.D.

Education

Certificate in Anesthesiology and Critical Care Medicine

1985 The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, USA.

Fellow in Pediatric Respiratory

1981 Department of Pediatrics, Faculty

Disease of Medicine, Ramathibodi Hospital,

Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand.

Certified Board in Pediatrics

1980 Department of Pediatrics, Faculty of Medicine,

Ramathibodi Hospital Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand.

Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)

1976 Faculty of Medicine, Ramathibodi

Hospital Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand

Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.)

1974 Faculty of Medicine, Ramathibodi

Hospital Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand

Professional Memberships.

1. Secretary and member of the Respiratory Care Committee, Ramathibodi Hospital (1984-present)

2. Secretary and member of the Sub-board committee on training of Pediatric Pulmonology. Medical Council of Thailand (since founded in 1989-present)

3. Member of the Research Committee of the National ARIC (Acute Respiratory Infection in Children), The Ministry of Public Health 1989-present.

4. Scientific Committee of the Operational Committee on the Program for Prevention and Control of Acute respiratory infection in children (ARIC) (1988-present)

5. National Advisory Expert on Respiratory Diseases and Respiratory tract infection. Ministry of Public Health (to set up the standard guideline for management of respiratory infection).

6. Committee of the Thai Thoracic Society 1992-present.

7. Committee of the Society of Critical Care Medicine, since found, Jan 1989-present

8. Scientific Committee of the 11th Asia Pacific Congress on Diseases of the Chest, 1989.

9. Secretary and member of the executive subcommittee on "Pediatric Critical Care" of the College of Pediatricians of Thailand. (1989)

10. Organizing and scientific committee of 6th Congress of Western Pacific Association of critical care Medicine (6th WPACCW) 1991.

11. Secretary General of the society of Critical Care Medicine (1992-present.)

12. Chief of Pediatric Intensive Care Unit. (1990-present), M.D

And

Dr.Wimol Sektheera, M.D

Pediatrics & Neonatology

Medical Doctor, Faculty of Medicine,

Songklanakarhin University.

Board Certification:

Board in Pediatrics Subboard Neonatology, Mahidol University

With them caring for our babies I am confident in my choice of Vejthani Hospital over a government hospital. Dr Wimol in particular has been staying at the hospital since November 24th when our babies were born. And along with the dedicated nurses here I wouldn't have them be anywhere else in Bangkok.

My statement on hospital decor was a reply to the generalized comment you made on farang not wanting to give birth in government hospitals because of accommodations I believe you mentioned my wife being next to a Thai spitting or whatnot. What does that have to do with anything?

Phoenix Arizona has 3 world renowned hospitals with specialized NICUs and teams of Neonatologists to care for Very Low Birth Weight premature infants and high order multiple pregnancies. Google Banner Good Samaritan and you will find many parents from all over going there for specialty care for high risk pregnancies.

What is my particular case? Read the following thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Happy-Birthday-t227991.html

You sir are an American hating self loathing individual. Personal attacks based on nationality are pretty low. And what does wanting my children born at home on Phoenix where my insurance would cover all expenses after I meet a $3000 a year catastrophic cap have to do with the United States of America's foreign policy? Did one of my fellow Marines drop a bomb on your village or shell your house?

Obviously you have never served you country where ever that may be.

When you are woken up by your wife and she is bleeding all over the floor you can't exactly schedule a flight back home now can you.

And contrary to how you are characterizing Vejthani Hospital the vast majority of patients seen there are Thai not farang. And when your wife and children's lives hang in the balance do you go to doctors you know and trust or go for the cheapest care available, Huh?

Good day sir. Your venomous attack confirms my original assessment YOU ARE A JACKASS.

[thaihome]

... Is it cause your wife doesn't want to be in a room where others spit Betel Nut saliva into spitoons ?

Yes, that would be a problem for me.

TH

[coventry]

... Is it cause your wife doesn't want to be in a room where others spit Betel Nut saliva into spitoons ?

Yes, that would be a problem for me.

TH

Get her a private room then. About 600 Baht a night. Job done.

[gunnyd]

Name me one hospital in Bangkok that would care for 2 farang parent's neonates properly in a level 1 NICU for 3-4 months without bankrupting them when said parents have no Thai property or Thai assets and I'll take back everything I said conventry.

As I said in my first post, you never know what emergency may happen and if it does you don't want to be in a Third World country with no NHS or laws governing not refusing care because of finances.

One of the number one things that bankrupt families in the US are medical emergencies. And as for locals, their children would just be left to die. Thais assume because you have White skin and an American passport that you are rich.

[coventry]

I did not say there was no ICUs in a government hospital. There are no proper NICUs (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit) in any government hospitals. How do I know? I did my homework.

You sir are an American hating self loathing individual. Personal attacks based on nationality are pretty low. And what does wanting my children born at home on Phoenix where my insurance would cover all expenses after I meet a $3000 a year catastrophic cap have to do with the United States of America's foreign policy? Did one of my fellow Marines drop a bomb on your village or shell your house?

Obviously you have never served you country where ever that may be.

Good day sir. Your venomous attack confirms my original assessment YOU ARE A JACKASS.

There are proper, whatever that signifies, NICU's in goverment hospitals. You get 0 out of 10 for your homework. My daughter developed Jaundice from birth. It wasn't noticed until we had been home 24 hours. She was then admitted to the government NICU where she was born, 3 days earlier. She has now just finished 12 months follow up checks. All at the government hospital and were free.

I must admit that I do dislike America, but I accept individuals as I find them. As for personal attacks ? Wasn't it you that initiated the name calling by calling me a "JACKASS"?

I have served in the forces and thank you for asking. I've had the pleasure of going on manouvers with many nations, US included. Unfortunately the American ones were probably the worst, second to the Danes. I'll probably get hate mail from Danes now, but I write as I speak.

All government hospitals, in BKK or Thailand generally, will treat any westerener without bankrupting them. The fees are ridiculously low. So now take back all you've said.

Finally. Thank you for wishing me a good day, but please don't call me "Sir". As I find that more offensive than "JACKASS".

Edited December 19, 2008 by coventry

[coventry]

Any valid argument that you may have had or thought you had has been ruined by being silly enough to make personal slurs.

In the future I will have children and have been reading this thread out of interested in people’s experience. Personal attacks such as this help no one and only succeed in persuading people such as myself that you are not intelligent enough to make a sensible decision.

For the benefit of others please maintain your composure and keep insults away from these informative threads.

(And for the record, I'm not American)

For the "record" you will find that the original slur wasn't by me. I only responded after being called a "JACKASS". I did call him a liar, that wasn't a slur, but a fact. He claimed there is no proper NICU's in government hospitals after doing his homework. He lied, full stop. May be 'Liar' was too strong a word, but he was spreading mis information. What do I do other than tell him he lied ?

Edited December 19, 2008 by coventry

[gunnyd]

Well SIR you ARE a JaCkAsS.

Having a child with jaundice and having triplets born 14 weeks premature are 2 different things. I did do my homework. I did say proper NICU. I am a Registered Nurse who practiced in the US for 15 years and my wife is a physician, what we find to be proper in a medical facility obviously doesn't gel with your "beliefs".

And FYI, you started it with the "your a farang that needs designer health care" in not so many words. I could not care less if it would have been an open ward with 1000 patients in it as long as the staff and the facility is properly equipped and certified.

We have been to most of the major facilities in 3 years that I have been in Bangkok including public facilities and they did not meet muster in our opinion. And that's what it is, it is our choice of the level of doctors and facilities that we demand for the proper care of our babies.... This is so

To the OP GO TO A NHS HOSPITAL IN THE UK!!!!! It is not worth the risk to your wife and children getting piss poor care when you have access to First World nationalized health care. Having a baby here IMHO is like playing Russian Roulette. I am sure many will disagree but as I said IT IS MY OPINION. This is coming from a pair of medical professionals from the US who have worked in world class hospitals, not some jackass with a big mouth who calls people a liar without reading the context of the post..

If I could turn back the clock I would have had my wife on the first plane out of here at the first sign of trouble. Not bad mouthing the hospital that is caring for our children, it's just that we would not be bankrupted by medical bills and Phoenix has one of the worlds top hospitals for the care of neonates. Unfortunately I don't have a time machine. OP: Put all of the <deleted> of the above posts aside and do what is best for your family.

Edited December 20, 2008 by gunnyd

[gunnyd]

As an addendum: For the last four weeks I have watched my daughter die, and am watching my other daughter and son teeter on the brink of life and death and on top of it I am staring down millions of Baht in hospital bills that I can no longer pay. It is extremely stressful. I am sure it is coloring my posts.

Mods: Please delete my flames, they are not on topic or appropriate.

[coventry]

Why is it that you keep deleting my responce to the above poster ? The man's a hypocrite and I was intending to prove it. What happened to free speech. Am I supposed to say sorry and let posters be misled by people that spread disinformation ? Is this supposed to be heaven where no body says boo to others ? I'll stick with this forum , but the above poster is an HYPOCRITE. Delete that if you want..

Edited December 22, 2008 by coventry

[Boo]

pm a mod instead of ranting about your issues on the open forum. But FYI, I can't find any posts of yours from this thread in the trash from the last 2 days so no one has deleted them but if you pm me with when you posted them I can have a look through a bit further.

It is entirely possible you thought you posted them but didn't or a conenction error happened whilst you were posting.

[Boo]

As to the other issue, it is not a competition as to who is right or wrong, gunnyd has given very valid resaon as to why he thinks there is no proper ICU in the government hospitals he & his wife looked at. They were looking for very specific reasons of which you have not experinced (unless your wife has given birth to very early triplets recently) so there is no need to post in such an agressive manner or to try to prove you are right. You thkn the governemnt hospital is fine, he does not. Leave it at that.

The op of this thread has been given a very wide range of opinions, that you disagree with gunnyd is just that, a difference of opinion.

So tone down your agression & stop with the name calling. That applies to GunnyD as well.