State Of Emergency Declared

[Wolfie]

Helicopters have been heard around swanny-poo (thats from the pantip.com webboard)

[animatic]

Let's see your IQ test would just be:

Is that all you want? Or do you want a true IQ test that asks questions including science, history, math, comprehensive reading?

I think you need to go and read wikipedia or something, and then come back and discuss IQ properly.

Reading and believing Wikipedia is not a sign of intelligence same as looking and believe Fox news or reading the National Enquirer.

A true IQ test shows retention, but it shows ability to solve problems and use reason.

It is not a test of stored learned knowledge,

but a measurement of the ABILITY to use knowledge.

Some people have photographic memories and can remember EVERYTHING that they have read,

but can't think their way out of a locked car they have never been in before with out advice.

Some people are idiot savants that can replay ANY piano concerto they have heard once,

but can['t go to the toilet alone.

Intelligence Quotient means quantified measured ability to

put knowledge and reason to work on what problem is at hand.

I vote for Marylin Vos Savant for Thai PM.

[LaoPo]

On TOC they have a guitarist singer entertaining the reasonably big looking crowd at Suvarnabhumi.

How thoughtful of PAD's Sondhi Limthongkul ! I'm sure the stranded tourists will applaud so much kindness...

Maybe Sondhi better doesn't show his face, explaining the PAD's actions to the thousands of passengers; a few angry Farang guys might not be amused....

LaoPo

[rainman]

On TOC they have a guitarist singer entetrtaining the reasonably big looking crowwd at Suvarnaphumi. It is surreal. I still dont figure M16s in all of this. That is just not the way it is done. There are also lots of women in the crowd.

I think there was a band playing too, right before the Titanic sunk.

[TheJoker]

Why M16's

Exactly.

M16's are crowd control tools, right?

Shoot the front row and the crowd leaves, right?

Yes, the true face of a lost government with bunker isolated paranoia.

What do you suggest , water pistols ?

You dont do crowd control with automatic weapons

Yeah that's right! Just use a Main Battle Tank....

[HankChinasky]

On TOC they have a guitarist singer entetrtaining the reasonably big looking crowwd at Suvarnaphumi. It is surreal. I still dont figure M16s in all of this. That is just not the way it is done. There are also lots of women in the crowd.

I think there was a band playing too, right before the Titanic sunk.

Let's hope.

[baht&sold]

I don't agree. It's ok to have discussions. If it's not your thing, log off. If Bendix or Wolfie or H90, with their superior insights of Thailand, know what it takes to end this debacle (airports closed, etc.) - then please enlighten us.

As several have suggested, quite simply call elections rather than potentially slaughter or maim.

The Govt is likely dissolved on Dec 2 anyways (for VOTE-FRAUD) Their answer is to remove vote-fraud rules (a natural democratically elected Govt reaction...)

Also, elections would COST Thaksin and Somchai apparently would rather slaughter and maim vs simply call elections (it's just easier and less expensive).

Again, to solve this crisis, all the PM has to do is say one word: ELECTIONS....

[FatherF]

On TOC they have a guitarist singer entetrtaining the reasonably big looking crowwd at Suvarnaphumi. It is surreal. I still dont figure M16s in all of this. That is just not the way it is done. There are also lots of women in the crowd.

I think there was a band playing too, right before the Titanic sunk.

Let's hope.

I think it kept on playing "as it sank"..........

FF

[h90]

I have seen repeatedly people say that PPP has "thugs" but PAD has "supporters and protesters"

I have also read how PPP carrys out "vote buying" but PAD "compensates supporters for lost earnings"

Or should we just be saying the PPP *are* thugs?

The easiest way out of the current deadlock is new elections.

The question is: why the current government refuses to call for the new elections, if they are so sure in the outcome?

Is it because they want to remove the vote-fraud rule from the constitution first?

they are not sure about the outcome and they invested a huge amount in vote buying but didn't get much back.

So it is a complete loose unless they put in a huge amount of money again, but for what??? if PAD does not allow to get money back.

[opalhort]

Am still waiting for the mods to come up with an idea how to set up a true-news-only topic.

Anyway, since everybody has some opinion here, please allow me to add my own:

Most of us will remember the last coup in 2006 when Thai people presented roses to the military.

How about this idea:

Let the military and police go out and give roses with yellow ribbons to all demonstrators (yellow and red shirted).

Wouldn't this send the right message to the current Thaksin proxy government and amount to a very peaceful coup?

opalhort

Edited November 28, 2008 by opalhort

[regfrancis]

If the police chief can be sacked for not doing as ordered, why not the army chief?? Governments are surposed to govern -not the staff

FF

Edited November 28, 2008 by regfrancis

[Tonycheston]

Is this new?

Thai protesters want to talk

Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:05

Protesters occupying Bangkok's main international airport have agreed to hold formal talks on Saturday with Thai authorities following initial contacts, a police commander said.

[Danton]

This is the end .

Thailand will never be the same again.

So long .

[khunjamespittman]

In most countries taking over an airport and trying to instigate a coup would be called a tad more than potentially annoying.

My point is that the PAD's actions aren't terrorism. No physical threat to anyone.

The Thai Rouge are armed and have been attacking people. That's closer to terrorism.

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

[oceano]

In most countries taking over an airport and trying to instigate a coup would be called a tad more than potentially annoying.

My point is that the PAD's actions aren't terrorism. No physical threat to anyone.

The Thai Rouge are armed and have been attacking people. That's closer to terrorism.

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

yes...and they put all 18.000 in your house...come back to reality please

[h90]

In most countries taking over an airport and trying to instigate a coup would be called a tad more than potentially annoying.

My point is that the PAD's actions aren't terrorism. No physical threat to anyone.

The Thai Rouge are armed and have been attacking people. That's closer to terrorism.

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

The same criminals did in France to kick out the king, the same criminals did in East German and Romania or when USA separate from England .

Always the people in power make the laws and so they are right in the letters of law.

After seizing power it changes. Every coup is legal if successful but illegal if fail.

[jitter27]

Can anyone confirm calls I have had that the Army are mobilising around BKK ?

Just saw pairs of soldiers posted at each stairs of Payathai BTS. In camouflage uniforms, helmets and big walkies-talkie.

[james24]

what is going on?? Nothing has really changed in 24 hours. A situation like this you would think that something would have been done. Just been watching PAD tv and they look like they are having a right laugh, are there still tourists in the airport?? If so talk about rubbing salt in the wound, Im pretty sure most of em there dont really have a clue regarding the real reason why they are there, and the money, it must be costing you know who a fortune!! How much a day ju think to finance this??

Edited November 28, 2008 by james24

[simon43]

Just saw pairs of soldiers posted at each stairs of Payathai BTS. In camouflage uniforms, helmets and big walkies-talkie

[\quote]

Big walkie-talkies?

Well that's it then. Clearly a coup is about to commence, initiated by these 2 guys at Payathai BTS..

In the future, you can tell your grandchildren 'I saw it start - it was those 2 guys with the big walkie-talkies...'

Simon

[girlx]

Can anyone confirm calls I have had that the Army are mobilising around BKK ?

i live quite near phayathai BTS and earlier there were loads of police and emergency vehicles racing past here, in fact for 2 days now i have heard loads of sirens.

[jitter27]

You're kidding but those were pretty big ones. I'm sure they have a better network than my phone...

[Florin]

The same criminals did in France to kick out the king, the same criminals did in East German and Romania or when USA separate from England .

Always the people in power make the laws and so they are right in the letters of law.

After seizing power it changes. Every coup is legal if successful but illegal if fail.

The difference between ALL the examples you give and the current situation in Thailand is that the current government is ELECTED...did anyone in 18th century France elect the French king?? Or the Communist rulers in Eastern Europe? NO...Only Russia actually CHOSE Communism, on everyone else east of Germany it was IMPOSED.

You're obviously too fanatical to be convinced, but this is NOT a people's revolution!! For that you'd need the majority of the people to want to topple the government...sheer numbers show that this is not the case! Whether because of ignorance or bribes is irrelevant, what is relevant is that 6 out of 10 people in Thailand (not Bangkok, THAILAND) are NOT protesting on the streets...I lived through our revolution in Romania and the simple fact was that MOST people wanted a change because of the hardships and isolation imposed in the 80s. Thai society however is much more polarized...especially since when you want to topple a government you have to come up with clearly BETTER SOLUTIONS. In all the historical examples you give, that was the case...in the current case, what is "better"?? "New politics"? The Democrat Party? What is being tried here is not the replacement of a cruel, physically repressive regime with "people power", it would be the replacement of a corrupt regime with a different kind of corrupt regime...neither of which is ideal or worth fighting for!!!!!

[phaethon]

In the future, you can tell your grandchildren 'I saw it start - it was those 2 guys with the big walkie-talkies...'

Hey! This is serious: you can do a LOT of damage with a walkie-talkie - especially if you insert it sideways...

[henryalleman]

It is truly amazing to me that so many people from democratic nations are for a coup.

Obviously you people are not the smarter and educated among your own people. HAA HAA

I read that poor stupid people get their votes bought so democracy cannot work here. But I think logically that the other side can and does try to pay the poor more but the poor still vote for the same party under a new name.

So I think that argument is nonsense.

Has it occurred to most of you that this is a cultural and geographic fight?

Issan people and the people in Bangkok do not like each other.

They do not even speak the same language at home.

The problem facing the Thai Elite who have done 20 coups in the past is that the world community will no longer tolerate the nonsense. One or two more coups by thie elite here and Thailand will be turned into a Burma like wreck by world trade sanctions against it.

As far as tourism here goes, it is near dead now and will be killed by a long fight combined with a world recession.

The Thai economy likely goes to negative GDP growth this quarter or next.

Crime will increase drastically,

Many wealthy Thais are leaving.

The foreign tourists will leave soon too.

Either Thailand becomes a real democracy or it will become a real wreck--as in Burma.

It is truly amazing to me that so many people from democratic nations are for a coup.

Obviously you people are not the smarter and educated among your own people. HAA HAA.

I have a hunge that those are mostly comments from some rednecks from a country across the pacific. Because they are people who still think that an ex war prisoner, because he show military leadership is fit to run a country. For all people who treasure democracy its a clear fact that the military should play no part, or have some role in politics. i can not imagine that this kind of comments are made by an Aussie, Kiwi or Europeans.

Suggesting that only the military can bring a solution is an insult towards the whole Thai society, and will show that Thailand is some kind of banana republic. Even in the breakdowns of the old USSR satellite states not any military power was involved. Let their be some chatarsis, maybe its make it possible that a new kind of young politicians stand up, and send the old incestuous gang of old crocodiles from both side to some pensioner resort, and build a more democratic and justice society.

[animatic]

In most countries taking over an airport and trying to instigate a coup would be called a tad more than potentially annoying.

My point is that the PAD's actions aren't terrorism. No physical threat to anyone.

The Thai Rouge are armed and have been attacking people. That's closer to terrorism.

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

The word terrorism gets bandied about a lot.

What is TERROR? n.

1. Extreme fear; fear that agitates body and mind; violent dread; fright.

Terror seized the rebel host. --Milton.

2. That which excites dread; a cause of extreme fear.

Those enormous terrors of the Nile. --Prior.

Rulers are not a terror to good works. --Rom. xiii. 3.

There is no terror, Cassius, in your threats. --Shak.

Note: Terror is used in the formation of compounds which are generally self-explaining:

as, terror-fraught, terror-giving, terror-smitten, terror-stricken, terror-struck, and the like.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996

terrorism

Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong.

Although these groups have no formal connection with governments,

they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments.

Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets,

including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion.

Israel has been a frequent target of terrorism,

but the United States has increasingly become its main target. (See also September 11 attacks,

Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah, and Basque region.)

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy

AND

terrorism

1795, in specific sense of

"government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in France" (1793-July 1794),

from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see terror).

"If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue,

its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue,

without which terror would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent."

[Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794]

General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded in Eng. 1798.

Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823.

Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947,

especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine --

earlier it was used of extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866);

and Jacobins during the French Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste.

The tendency of one party's terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter

was noted in ref. to the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973).

The word terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively,

to the Maquis resistance in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, 1979).

AND

terrorism –noun

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Origin:

1785–95; terror + -ism

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

As you can see it has several definitions,

not the least is government terrorising it's own people.

We have a group announcing it will move to a location in advance,

stating it is there to stop a change in law. The government doesn't stop them enroute.

The GOVERNMENT then uses fear and violence to harrass them on site. They respond.

We see the group at a site and the government ministers encourage the training

of guerilla irregulars to harass and kill the group on sight under cover of night.

Not face to face confrontaion, but sowing terror, in the hopes the group will leave.

They don't.

Which side actually uses terroism here?

"If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue,

its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror --

virtue, without which terror would be barbaric;

and terror, without which virtue would be impotent."

[Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794]

He of course went to the block himself...

Do any of you see the dichotomies involved here???

Edited November 28, 2008 by animatic

[erobando]

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

I have no problem with arresting PAD members.

I was responding to previous posts claiming that the PAD are terrorists.

Terror involves some sort of potential threat to civilians. PAD in the airport don't pose that.

30 drunken DAAD Thai Rouge in my neighborhood with clubs are a clear threat.

[henryalleman]

The black underlined text is even more telling. Or is that what you were hinting at?

That Google-ads link is to an article published on 4 December 2006. Nothing to do with the current situation. Not suitable for discussion on this forum.

--

Maestro

http://marketdata.set.or.th/mkt/sectoriali...&country=US

This today, the SET is up already 2 day's in row after months of decline.

[h90]

The same criminals did in France to kick out the king, the same criminals did in East German and Romania or when USA separate from England .

Always the people in power make the laws and so they are right in the letters of law.

After seizing power it changes. Every coup is legal if successful but illegal if fail.

The difference between ALL the examples you give and the current situation in Thailand is that the current government is ELECTED...did anyone in 18th century France elect the French king?? Or the Communist rulers in Eastern Europe? NO...Only Russia actually CHOSE Communism, on everyone else east of Germany it was IMPOSED.

You're obviously too fanatical to be convinced, but this is NOT a people's revolution!! For that you'd need the majority of the people to want to topple the government...sheer numbers show that this is not the case! Whether because of ignorance or bribes is irrelevant, what is relevant is that 6 out of 10 people in Thailand (not Bangkok, THAILAND) are NOT protesting on the streets...I lived through our revolution in Romania and the simple fact was that MOST people wanted a change because of the hardships and isolation imposed in the 80s. Thai society however is much more polarized...especially since when you want to topple a government you have to come up with clearly BETTER SOLUTIONS. In all the historical examples you give, that was the case...in the current case, what is "better"?? "New politics"? The Democrat Party? What is being tried here is not the replacement of a cruel, physically repressive regime with "people power", it would be the replacement of a corrupt regime with a different kind of corrupt regime...neither of which is ideal or worth fighting for!!!!!

didn't you read about the courts today? Around the 13-15th the PPP and Chart Thai will be dissolved, because of MASSIVE vote buying. so they are elected but not democratic.

[MikeWill]

... No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

What about Mr.T. then?

It sounds more like a saying: "different strokes for different folks".

Edited November 28, 2008 by Condo_bk

[Journalist]

Just saw pairs of soldiers posted at each stairs of Payathai BTS. In camouflage uniforms, helmets and big walkies-talkie

Big walkie-talkies?

Well that's it then. Clearly a coup is about to commence, initiated by these 2 guys at Payathai BTS..

In the future, you can tell your grandchildren 'I saw it start - it was those 2 guys with the big walkie-talkies...'

Simon

HELLO ! ...WHAT? .....YES, WE'RE HAVING A COUP.