Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[seri thai]

Hope situation don't degenerate!!

hi angiud i am due to leave cold and foggy uk on the 8th of dec for thailand would you or anyone else like to hazzard a guess as to my chances thanks from ausan

Should be OK after HRH's birthday (5th Dec) told my parents to come then...

[kaotang]

Do you really believe this bullshit?

Do you really believe Tacky and his family government?

No, of course not. Both of Taksin and Sondhi are multi-millionaire moguls .. the difference is one of them is now bankrupt and is making some money by brainwashing people.

Really, in all the Thai politics history anyone in the power is always corrupted - even the Democrat Party or the military government .. but no one has ever damaged the country like these PAD people now.

And anyway, what are they requesting for? Calling themselves People Alliance for Democracy is a bit ironic since what they are seeking is either absolute monarchy or a military coup or some kind of "National Government" (by the way from appointment not from election).

How can you justify the act of these people?

[hungryhippo]

Do you really believe this bullshit?

Which part do you have the problem with?

The PAD has protested for more than six months,

That's correct, they've been protesting for a long long time, even before they took over the government house they had been protesting for more then 100 days.

If that is true why is there coalition government consisting of the People Power Party, Chart Thai and Matchima Tipataya Party close to being dissolved due to electoral violations and accusations of vote buying?

That's correct about being found guilty of vote buying, the coalition I wouldn't know about.

It's funny that the Pro-Government supporters who have a TV program on NBT Channel 11are bent on voicing their opposition against the PAD while they are broadcast on FREE TV, while ASTV is only available to those who have access to internet, members of provincial cable (which mind you only reaches 20-30% of the population)

Correct again, you need a dish to get ASTV and I've said before that if ASTV were to disappear then it would be dangerous for Thailand because the government could get away with what they wanted without getting caught.

For the last 6 months, the government has chosen to ignore hundreds of thousands of Thai citizens who have dome out to show opposition toward this administration.

Indeed this government has. A better government would have negotiated and solved this months ago, now things have escalated to taking control of airports and killing old men driving down the street just because his tshirt is yellow.

No, of course not. Both of Taksin and Sondhi are multi-millionaire moguls .. the difference is one of them is now bankrupt and is making some money by brainwashing people.

uh, you do realise that Sondhi is almost bankrupt don't you? ASTV filed for bankruptcy two weeks ago, however I've not been able to confirm that. If anyone else has info on that please spread the word.

Ed: Oh wait, I see what you did there.

Edited November 29, 2008 by hungryhippo

[magisterludi]

Enough of this battering. I need to go out for some food, and drink....But just to stir the pot a bit more, (seeing as how we have so many new guys that are jumping into the fey with such strong opinions (always pro PPP) for some reason....

Nobody has yet to post the reasons the PAD seized control of the 2 airports, so straight from the PAD site, here are the published official reasons:

What does the People's Alliance for Democracy have to gain from this long struggle?

A country that is free of corruption, crony capitalism, and nepotism. There is no financial gain to be made. Sondhi Limthongkul has already came out on several occasions and spoke about how he was offered more than 500 million baht for ASTV, but declined the offer knowing that it would be the end to INDEPENDENT Media free from the governments control. Pipob Thongchai has no business interest he is well known for his free educational schools in the provinces. Somkiat Pongpaiboon, is a former academic and now politician who wants to see change in society. Somsak Kosaisuk, is a leader of the state enterprises confederation who fought against the privatization of state enterprises. Chamlong Srimuang is a former army general, Bangkok governor and now an organic farmer who has a leadership school for civil servants as well as looking after unwanted street dogs. Not quite a group of capitalist bent on gaining from this long enduring struggle.

Several people have asked why have the PAD has resorted to protesting at Suvanaphumi airport?

The PAD has protested for more than six months, holding several mini rally's around the city. We have protested at the ECC, Metropolitan Police Bureau, UK Embassy, Silom, Siam Square and several other areas in the capital to protest the corruption and lies within the government.

The Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat governments both claim they came from free and fair democratic elections?

If that is true why is there coalition government consisting of the People Power Party, Chart Thai and Matchima Tipataya Party close to being dissolved due to electoral violations and accusations of vote buying? So, is it fair to say they had to cheat to win? If they do have the support they claim? Why would it be necessary to go such measures to win votes?

Is Thai Media free from government intervention?

It's funny that the Pro-Government supporters who have a TV program on NBT Channel 11are bent on voicing their opposition against the PAD while they are broadcast on FREE TV, while ASTV is only available to those who have access to internet, members of provincial cable (which mind you only reaches 20-30% of the population), and viewer who purchase Free to Air satellites. So, in other words the people who support the PAD have had to go out of their way to listen to what the PAD has to say and not the PRO-Government Propaganda that is being aired. So, you could say the made a conscientious choice to listen to ASTV instead.

This government loves to speak of their populist policies? But always forget about the criminals within their party

Why doesn't this government ever talk about the former party members who have been jailed such as Somchai (Kamnan Poh) the father of Sonthaya Khunplume former tourism minister or Wattana Asavahame who have both fled the country after their convictions of corruption? Let's not forget the other person they are protecting Thaksin Shinawatra.

For the last 6 months, the government has chosen to ignore hundreds of thousands of Thai citizens who have dome out to show opposition toward this administration. The PAD realizes that the airport closures will drastically affect Thailand on a variety of dimensions. However, we will no longer be ignored.

I will join back tomorrow (if the world is still here)

Do you really believe this bullshit?

If I want to read political propaganda I can google it myself. No need to cite your sources either I suppose. Plagiarism sure is a quick way to type (read: copy paste) your responses.

[Tonyzill]

I think it would be wise to not consider ASTV a 'news source', for posts here or otherwise.

Also the 'live feed' shows what their spin doctors want you to see.

Stick with the BBC.

The problem with the BBC is it tends to be several hours out of date and then inaccurate at best!

One thing I wish I had in the USA is the BBC...at least the BBC shows news truly around the world and not just the US news that has to do with whatever the government has its dirty paw into. I really enjoy hearing about the world; unfortunately all news stations are biased one way or another...irritating! Everyone has a boss and a political supporter...farangs do it a bit more on the sly, though (except lately the US news stations have clearly discredited themselves with a terribly slanted view of our spoon fed news. I'd love to have a truly non-biased news source. I'm afraid even if I was the director, I'd likely lean towards the underserved and those without a voice.

It's nice to hear something is happening in Thailand, though...still not a blip on my TV in the Washington DC area. I'm more concerned right now about ehs shipment of my sin sod gold coming Monday and the safety of my tilac (yes, I'm shameless and selfish)!

I do have to say that whatever happens to PAD, they can't say they're surprised if shots start coming their way. I wonder what would happen if one crazy officer started mowing the aggressive one's down...would htey run or attack? I can't imagine the fear of the police actually being overrun having to leave your vehicles behind...running for fear of their lives. I'm sure they're on the brink of what one poseter said...thais are cool, cool, cool, then from jai yen to jai ron in a milisecond! I'm still smiling at that one because it's so true! Like pissing off a tiger twitching its tail, then its had enough and decides to bite the head off the trainer and be done with it.

It amazes me the restraint the police and army are taking...the army is losing a lot of money with no landings (don't they collect a fee)? I'm relieved rule of law is at least being attempted...adds SOME credibility to the nation (as if it had any to start with...who overthrows governments as a passtime anyway)!

[barcelonatio]

/edit typo//

Yeah, I've lived in France a while and experienced the french style of protests, which often involves unrelated people. I don't really appreciate that either. I've not seen them take over an airport in Paris, though.

Oh yes ! Union strikes shutting down airports are common all over Europe. Preferably during the peak holiday season, to give their demand more power. Rings a bell?

Oh yes ! Union strikes shutting down airports are common all over Europe. Preferably during the peak holiday season, to give their demand more power. Rings a bell?

Yes, it's normally French Air Traffick Control!

FF

Come on don't hog all the benefit. There is usually the British baggage handlers causing disruption at peak times, the owners of LHR causing weeks of disruption due to T5, plus of course as soon as the lazy UK airport workers see a snowflake they cancel flights as they have'n't charged the batteries in the snow clearers!

This is interesting... although taking over of an airport sounds sooooo primitive and surreal.... similar things happen in Europe. So many times there have been strikes with the metro in Barcelona, baggage handlers, air traffic controlers, etc. and one time the taxi drivers completely blocked Barcelona airport which caused havoc.... not to mention all the strikes in Italy all the time! So although Europe thinks it is so advanced and culturally superior, the same shit happens... although on a smaller scale.

[Tonyzill]

I think it would be wise to not consider ASTV a 'news source', for posts here or otherwise.

Also the 'live feed' shows what their spin doctors want you to see.

Stick with the BBC.

The problem with the BBC is it tends to be several hours out of date and then inaccurate at best!

One thing I wish I had in the USA is the BBC...at least the BBC shows news truly around the world and not just the US news that has to do with whatever the government has its dirty paw into. I really enjoy hearing about the world; unfortunately all news stations are biased one way or another...irritating! Everyone has a boss and a political supporter...farangs do it a bit more on the sly, though (except lately the US news stations have clearly discredited themselves with a terribly slanted view of our spoon fed news. I'd love to have a truly non-biased news source. I'm afraid even if I was the director, I'd likely lean towards the underserved and those without a voice.

It's nice to hear something is happening in Thailand, though...still not a blip on my TV in the Washington DC area. I'm more concerned right now about ehs shipment of my sin sod gold coming Monday and the safety of my tilac (yes, I'm shameless and selfish)!

I do have to say that whatever happens to PAD, they can't say they're surprised if shots start coming their way. I wonder what would happen if one crazy officer started mowing the aggressive one's down...would htey run or attack? I can't imagine the fear of the police actually being overrun having to leave your vehicles behind...running for fear of their lives. I'm sure they're on the brink of what one poseter said...thais are cool, cool, cool, then from jai yen to jai ron in a milisecond! I'm still smiling at that one because it's so true! Like pissing off a tiger twitching its tail, then its had enough and decides to bite the head off the trainer and be done with it.

It amazes me the restraint the police and army are taking...the army is losing a lot of money with no landings (don't they collect a fee)? I'm relieved rule of law is at least being attempted...adds SOME credibility to the nation (as if it had any to start with...who overthrows governments as a passtime anyway)!

Watch Al Jazeera news very good and unbiased.

[chrislarsson]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

[jeebusjones]

hi angiud i am due to leave cold and foggy uk on the 8th of dec for thailand would you or anyone else like to hazzard a guess as to my chances thanks from ausan

I'm in the same boat, though a little later. I'll be flying in on Dec 20 and sincerely hope the airport is back to normal by then... but then again, TIT.

[TAWP]

woman with her foot blown off on Oct 7th

How could someone lost her foot when the police used tear gas? What did they do that the police had to use tear gas? Answer please.

I've heard no talks about that woman since then. Where is she now?

Is this poster for real?

Koo82: Please, read some news once in a while, watch some news programs, something...that isn't just more of the Thaksin Kool Aid...if you did, you might have known about the teargas grenades of military grade that blow peoples limbs off and killed one unarmed young woman during the 7 Oct clash.

[seri thai]

[i have just heard this from a Thai in the office that they are opening fire on the PAD protesters...

My own view is they have it coming, it is not as if they were not warned !!! .. i hope this makes them think twice about accepting 700 THB a risking their lives for a couple of Thais that cannot accept they didnt make it to power!

I hope innocent people are not hurt...

}

I know a personal friend (Farang) who's middle class wife (Thai) if there of her free will.Nobody gave her 700 Baht. She is driven by a sense of fairness for Thais after the raping of the country by Thaksin and his mob.

Perhaps you could back up your claims heard from a policeman? What policeman. One at Suvarnabhumi? I don' think so.

As for your comment "They had it coming."

Unless you live in the bible belt of the USA or are closely related to Ghengis Khan, nobody demonstrating against an openly corrupt system, has it coming."

Leave the Thais to sort out there own form of Democracy I say.

And I shall stick to my knitting. I suggest you stick to boating.

my middle class wife as well....

Good to see no-one in the forum was so foolish as to marry a bar girl then

"I am Brian, and so is my wife!"

My wife, I would say is lower middle class, aspiring to be upper middle class and so would wear a yellow shirt if it wasn't so outre

[TAWP]

They are fighting against a government that has bought their way into power through duplicity, lies and vote buying. You would be negligent in your duties as a citizen of your country if you didn't do everything possible to oust these politicians who corrupt the word democracy and everything it stands for

Wake up! EVERY party bought votes. They couldn't win after buying votes so now they support the PAD to pull the PPP.

Sondhi is having 200 years in jail waiting. He has nothing to lose so he just fights like a rat.

Apart from the fact that he isn't sentenced to any jail time so far, unlike Thaksin that is?

[kaotang]

Do you really believe this bullshit?

Which part do you have the problem with?

Well, many points that i have problems with.

First,

There is no financial gain to be made.

For sure there is. A lot of people give them money and a lot of invisible hands help. That's why now Sondhi let Manager bankrupt and have enough money to start a new company right away.

Sondhi Limthongkul has already came out on several occasions and spoke about how he was offered more than 500 million baht for ASTV, but declined the offer knowing that it would be the end to INDEPENDENT Media free from the governments control. Pipob Thongchai has no business interest he is well known for his free educational schools in the provinces. Somkiat Pongpaiboon, is a former academic and now politician who wants to see change in society. Somsak Kosaisuk, is a leader of the state enterprises confederation who fought against the privatization of state enterprises. Chamlong Srimuang is a former army general, Bangkok governor and now an organic farmer who has a leadership school for civil servants as well as looking after unwanted street dogs. Not quite a group of capitalist bent on gaining from this long enduring struggle

And probably this is the part that I have the most problem with. Do you personally know all of these con men? Do you know what is behind the scene? Do you know about their relationship with some invisible hands? Not to mention how many times Chamlong took people to death and use women and children as human shield.

The PAD has protested for more than six months,

That's correct, they've been protesting for a long long time, even before they took over the government house they had been protesting for more then 100 days.

If that is true why is there coalition government consisting of the People Power Party, Chart Thai and Matchima Tipataya Party close to being dissolved due to electoral violations and accusations of vote buying?

That's correct about being found guilty of vote buying, the coalition I wouldn't know about.

To be honest with you, i think at this time the most corrupted institute in Thailand is the Court. They are very partial. The Democrat was caught with 2 million Baht for vote buying, while in this case PPP with 20K?? Read the court case.

It's funny that the Pro-Government supporters who have a TV program on NBT Channel 11are bent on voicing their opposition against the PAD while they are broadcast on FREE TV, while ASTV is only available to those who have access to internet, members of provincial cable (which mind you only reaches 20-30% of the population)

Correct again, you need a dish to get ASTV and I've said before that if ASTV were to disappear then it would be dangerous for Thailand because the government could get away with what they wanted without getting caught.

ASTV started all the brainwashing propaganda programmes but the government cannot do anything because the court ordered temporary protection for almost 2 years now. It's ridiculous anyway. When the court orders sth that is pro PAD, the government respects it but when the court ordered them to get away, the PAD ignores it.

For the last 6 months, the government has chosen to ignore hundreds of thousands of Thai citizens who have dome out to show opposition toward this administration.

Indeed this government has. A better government would have negotiated and solved this months ago, now things have escalated to taking control of airports and killing old men driving down the street just because his tshirt is yellow.

You really think that they did not try??? But the PAD is untouchable .. and there are a lot more people play their part in it. The problem is these kinds of things cannot be discussed in full in this country. That's why everything looks so absurd and doesnt make any sense.

[jimbeam1]

Bus loads of police left Sisaket in a large convoy, heading for Bkk, this morning. If this is happening through throughout the region, there should be a massive police pesence in the city by tomorrow.

Why Sisaket?

Sisaket is far away and in Isaan country. Isn't that where the Thaksin loyalists all live?

Maybe that means they will be willing to do something against the yellow shirts.

What's wrong with police forces from neighbouring cities?

One could assume that these are border police and likely to be more willing to fight with BKK women and children.

Hi

My Girlfriends brother is a cop in Surin. He was sent to Bangkok on Friday. I know for sure he would rather be with us cutting rice right now.

jb1

[Shah Jahan]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

[Zebadee45]

Its so sad to of watched Thailand self destructing over the last few months and now it is becoming a laughing stock. We all know how wonderful the Thai police are, but their current display of incompetency really does go beyond belief.

I personally believe the damage that has been caused by these 'Terrorists'/'Insurgents' ( I use these words because thats what they would be called in any another country ) will have a long lasting effect on Thailand's economy and tourism.

I was on the understanding that the current government was elected democratically, maybe the stories of them being a puppet government for Thaksin to control from outside are true, but at least if we look back at the time when Thaksin was in power Thailand seemed to be a much more stable place, and more inviting for both business and tourist even if he wasnt the straightest PM in power, lets face it who wants to go there now?

Do the Thai people really want a Democracy, or even understand what it is?

[TAWP]

I believe in democracy, but like I said, the rights of one individual finish at the place where the rights of another individual begin. To trample on the rights of others to demand your own rights is not only a contradiction in terms but also a very selfish thing to do.

Rubbish, since when was it a human rights violation to stop you boarding a flight? Go back to Fourmod's wonderland.

UN universal declaration of human rights.

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
  (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
  Source: United nations website /Overview/rights.html
  
  
  

Really, with just a little google search you could have found that. In most countries its just simply called "Freedom of movement".

I get annoyed by people stating their feelings/beliefs as if they were facts. Just because you "feel" something is true, it doesn't make it true.

Don't be ignorant:

1) No-one was stopped from leaving the country. It was airplanes that was canceled by the airlines. The PAD didn't stop them.

2) Anyone is still able to leave, and return, to and from the country in other places.

3) The 'right' is generally in regards of citizen vs government.

4) Would you be oppose to a criminal being allowed to leave the country and citing this 'Right' in the police stopped him?

[madi]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Final battle in Bangkok a Pyrrhic victory

By Awzar Thi

Column: Rule of LordsPublished: November 27, 2008

People’s Alliance for Democracy members camp out at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport on Nov. 25, 2008. The group has forced the airport to close, stranding hundreds of travelers. (Photo/PAD)

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Hong Kong, China — Organizers of the prolonged raid on the Bangkok international airport have insisted that they will bring down the government at any cost. In targeting the airport they have taken a dramatic strategic step and have also made a move of enormous symbolic importance.

Suvarnabhumi Airport represents modern Thailand. The new airport was a huge project aimed not only at cementing the country’s commercial place in Asia but also at demonstrating how far it has come by comparison to most of its immediate neighbors.

Under normal circumstances, legions of security personnel would have protected the terminal, accompanied by the dire warnings of senior officers about anyone thinking to damage national prestige with funny business that might upset foreign tourists and businesspeople. Under normal circumstances, the police would have quickly moved to prevent or end any seizure, just as they did when protests occurred on government premises against the interim military regime last year.

But these are not normal circumstances. Crowds have already spent months occupying Government House, defying court orders to vacate, as well as one attempt to forcibly dislodge them. Now they are seemingly also at liberty to camp out in Thailand’s showpiece airport, with the expectancy that another military putsch will bump both them and the incumbent government out.

All these events speak to the complex interests that are at work behind and through the cynically named People’s Alliance for Democracy.

The alliance has been operating an armed and dangerous security force with impunity, yet its leaders have over the last few months moved around freely, apparently without fear that any of Thailand’s quarter-of-a-million police officers will make an arrest. They have refused investigators access to crime scenes in premises that they have occupied. They have illegally detained other citizens, and have declined to negotiate for the return of public utilities and facilities. Yet they have been permitted to carry on.

Although both the alliance and its nemesis, the ousted Thai Rak Thai government, share contempt for democratic life, the contrasts between them in many respects could not be sharper. Whereas the former prime minister and his party twisted the electoral process for personal and political advantage, the people behind the current events are inimical to electoral politics.

Whereas the former government played with institutions to obtain its objectives, this group is hel_l bent upon laying waste to them. Whereas the Thaksin regime had some image of the future, the alliance leaders conceive of their country only with reference to an imagined past.

The irony is that while the alliance has emerged as the greatest threat to Thailand’s institutional order in modern times, it is a threat that is coming not from without but from within that order. While other countries are concerned with the danger of terrorist attack or political violence orchestrated against the state from outside, it is the super-conservative elements at the heart of the state that are responsible for the havoc being wreaked in Bangkok today.

Irrespective of what happens next, all Thailand’s core institutions have without exception suffered losses. Globally, their credibility has plummeted. It will not easily be recovered.

Domestically, they have lost authority. This loss is grievous and lasting. Active and engaged public life depends upon durable institutions. Where government and non-government agencies alike are working reasonably well, spaces exist to propose improvements, defend rights and redress wrongs. Where reactionary forces cut them down for fear of losing their status and out of misguided ideas about lineage and tradition, social life gets much more basic, much more ugly.

Thailand’s political parties and politicians have proven incapable of leading their country out of this morass. Its senior courts have encouraged conflict at the behest of interested parties, out of political rather than legal imperatives. The police force has again shown itself to be a tool of vested interests rather than a criminal justice agency of any sort. And the army too has once again demonstrated that it acts for its interests, and its interests alone.

The “final battle” unfolding in Bangkok can only end in a Pyrrhic victory. The attack on Suvarnabhumi Airport has struck at the authority and credibility of all institutions in Thailand. Whatever happens, the damage has been done. The 2006 coup pushed Thailand to the brink. The airport takeover has decidedly pushed it over.

--

(Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma

[SiriusBlack1]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Very true, and very sad. Thailand's reputation lies in ruins for a generation. Its former status as a standard-bearer of democracy in the region now stands exposed as the shabby illusion it always was. Welcome to the return of coups and counter-coups. The mornings waking up and turning on your TV to see stern-faced generals (cue the patriotic marching tunes), interrupting your usual cooking and celebrity gossip roundup to declare that they did what they had to for the good of the country. Again.

The PM's resignation would do no good, because fresh elections would only turn up another winner that the people like but the soldiers do not, and the chaos starts all over again. Either the constitution will be rigged again, to tip the scales in favor of the powerful elites even more than they are now, or the grunts will completely dispense with the charade of elections and rule as a junta. A Crescent of Autocracy is complete, stretching from Bangladesh to Vietnam.

[kaotang]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

I do agree with you!

[HYENA]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Thailand was 14th most dangerous places in the world before this month.Thailand has worked hard to earn the reputation of being dishonest..copyrights, freedom of speech, consistently idiotic politics where overthrowing an government (unheard of in this day and age) is a pastime...Thailand has always had a bad reputation. Only because I''m connected with Thailand do I see things completely different than just last year. Of all countries, Thailand was one of the lowest on my respect list...known for rampant prostitution, scams and lies. People are shocked when I reveal I've got a Thai wife...they ask some interesting questions...then when they ask again, they ask how my Taiwan wife is doing? Not much is known about Thailand in the mainstream except for our little niche here. This could be a forum from Cyprus for all anyone knows and we'd think the news in Cyprus was affecting everyone but in all truth, national news may mention in passing but India is the interested story of the week...India has come a long way from where it has been and actually has a dependable workforce and is trying to step up as a regional world power. Thailand has the money but it is all squandered. My first time there, I was predicting in 5 years, Thailand will be the Hollywood (only referring to wealth, not the real weirdos there) of Asia...but after I saw how deep seated the corruption was from tip top to the lowest of the low, I now realize why I still can get so many baht with the USD and this will continue for some time. Japan, on the other hand has handled things differently, so has Taiwan and South Korea...but there's Thailand making money on sex tourism as a larg percent of GDP...that's what Thailand is known for....lack of morals, ethics and rule of law and rule of international law...the copycat capital of the world (even though China does it more, Thailand has the reputation because of its size and scale of copycats and lack of originality. Anything made worthy of money, Thais will copy and sell for a buck...not a good reputation and it's quite unfortunate. You can see people in stores picking something up, seeing a "made in Thailand" stamp on it, then the value goes down and it sits on the shelf likely being a copycat of an original idea or style. What have Thais historically brought to the world? Famous ingenuity, inventions? Nope, just professional mimics selling their family members for cash. Anything for a buck.

I don't like it now that I love the people there (minus the snooty old money and intolerably prejudice caste system believers)

Unfortunately all our president and most leaders have said is it's unfortunate or a quick one sentence condemnation of what's happening and that's that. "This is bad, they should stop" seems all any big leaders have to say because not many on the world stage care, unfortunately. It would be nice to see Thailand get a reputation--not worried about losing it any more than it already has...never had a good one to start. Think about how you felt, your opinions, your friends before you had the idea to visit (if there are any who had no contact prior to certain later point in life). Thailand likely meant nothing except cool pad thai when you could find a place that made it....Thai food is great...other than that, how's Taiwan?

Edited November 29, 2008 by HYENA

[tingtongmaak]

Regardless of the fact that the majority of Thai voters elected Thaksin again I think they should seriously step down if they are unable to show force and remove these idiots who are screwing up the country.

Let's hope they storm the place successfully tomorrow.

If people get hurt I hope its the skum who were seen shooting at the opposition and setting fire to motorbikes earlier this week.

[pnustedt]

Why Sisaket?

Sisaket is far away and in Isaan country. Isn't that where the Thaksin loyalists all live?

Some of the Thaksin loyalists live in Sisaket, actually, Bkk and the South are a minority in this country and most Thais are Thaksin loyalists.

[rafval]

A Crescent of Autocracy is complete, stretching from Bangladesh to Vietnam.

In my opinion thats the nature of human politics, democracy has never worked until a country develops a big middle class, roughly when the urban population is as big as the rural, otherwise the lower class always prefers an autocratic rule in any case, so either way its going to be an autocracy in Thailand and many other countries for a while yet.

[magisterludi]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Final battle in Bangkok a Pyrrhic victory

By Awzar Thi

Column: Rule of LordsPublished: November 27, 2008

People’s Alliance for Democracy members camp out at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport on Nov. 25, 2008. The group has forced the airport to close, stranding hundreds of travelers. (Photo/PAD)

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Hong Kong, China — Organizers of the prolonged raid on the Bangkok international airport have insisted that they will bring down the government at any cost. In targeting the airport they have taken a dramatic strategic step and have also made a move of enormous symbolic importance.

Suvarnabhumi Airport represents modern Thailand. The new airport was a huge project aimed not only at cementing the country’s commercial place in Asia but also at demonstrating how far it has come by comparison to most of its immediate neighbors.

Under normal circumstances, legions of security personnel would have protected the terminal, accompanied by the dire warnings of senior officers about anyone thinking to damage national prestige with funny business that might upset foreign tourists and businesspeople. Under normal circumstances, the police would have quickly moved to prevent or end any seizure, just as they did when protests occurred on government premises against the interim military regime last year.

But these are not normal circumstances. Crowds have already spent months occupying Government House, defying court orders to vacate, as well as one attempt to forcibly dislodge them. Now they are seemingly also at liberty to camp out in Thailand’s showpiece airport, with the expectancy that another military putsch will bump both them and the incumbent government out.

All these events speak to the complex interests that are at work behind and through the cynically named People’s Alliance for Democracy.

The alliance has been operating an armed and dangerous security force with impunity, yet its leaders have over the last few months moved around freely, apparently without fear that any of Thailand’s quarter-of-a-million police officers will make an arrest. They have refused investigators access to crime scenes in premises that they have occupied. They have illegally detained other citizens, and have declined to negotiate for the return of public utilities and facilities. Yet they have been permitted to carry on.

Although both the alliance and its nemesis, the ousted Thai Rak Thai government, share contempt for democratic life, the contrasts between them in many respects could not be sharper. Whereas the former prime minister and his party twisted the electoral process for personal and political advantage, the people behind the current events are inimical to electoral politics.

Whereas the former government played with institutions to obtain its objectives, this group is hel_l bent upon laying waste to them. Whereas the Thaksin regime had some image of the future, the alliance leaders conceive of their country only with reference to an imagined past.

The irony is that while the alliance has emerged as the greatest threat to Thailand’s institutional order in modern times, it is a threat that is coming not from without but from within that order. While other countries are concerned with the danger of terrorist attack or political violence orchestrated against the state from outside, it is the super-conservative elements at the heart of the state that are responsible for the havoc being wreaked in Bangkok today.

Irrespective of what happens next, all Thailand’s core institutions have without exception suffered losses. Globally, their credibility has plummeted. It will not easily be recovered.

Domestically, they have lost authority. This loss is grievous and lasting. Active and engaged public life depends upon durable institutions. Where government and non-government agencies alike are working reasonably well, spaces exist to propose improvements, defend rights and redress wrongs. Where reactionary forces cut them down for fear of losing their status and out of misguided ideas about lineage and tradition, social life gets much more basic, much more ugly.

Thailand’s political parties and politicians have proven incapable of leading their country out of this morass. Its senior courts have encouraged conflict at the behest of interested parties, out of political rather than legal imperatives. The police force has again shown itself to be a tool of vested interests rather than a criminal justice agency of any sort. And the army too has once again demonstrated that it acts for its interests, and its interests alone.

The “final battle” unfolding in Bangkok can only end in a Pyrrhic victory. The attack on Suvarnabhumi Airport has struck at the authority and credibility of all institutions in Thailand. Whatever happens, the damage has been done. The 2006 coup pushed Thailand to the brink. The airport takeover has decidedly pushed it over.

--

(Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma

Bravo. Excellent article. So sad but true.

[A_Traveller]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Hm... no he didn't. There was no attempt to seriously engage with raising education standards, the provision of the '30 baht health scheme' was both in track prior to his election, and was largely starved of development funds [no management infrastructure built for example]. There was no attempt to deal with the key hidden economic issues such as the effective monopolies in the processing of rice, nor any attempt to open the economy to meaningful external [or for that matter internal] development]. By the by whilst making speeches early in his term, they were truly dichotomous, the local version espoused protectionism [note monopolies point above], whilst international versions were warm and fuzzy but lacking in structural methodologies to allow economic developmental engagement.

Khun Thaksin viewed the Kingdom as his personal fiefdom, a perspective reinforced by the 'guilty but not' verdict of the asset concealment case.

Whilst he was not the first, nor the last politician here to be driven by personal [commercial] agendas, he was singular in the breadth and voraciousness of his administrations, as you imply in your closing sentence.

Regards

/edit clarify//

Edited November 29, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Samuian]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Unfortunately so!

However but it is as it is - I am afraid!

[john b good]

i heard they having a good time playing badminton in the cool aircond terminal. anyone up to make a farang team ???

I'd be up for that TB

[Gravelrash]

It appears that the bib are as incompetent as they are corrupt.

I wouldn't have thought that level of incompetence was possible. If the government was smart they would have sent the police in to fine every PAD member 1,000 baht, now that would have mobilized the troops, the PAD would have been crushed under a police charge.

[HankChinasky]

Regardless of the fact that the majority of Thai voters elected Thaksin again I think they should seriously step down if they are unable to show force and remove these idiots who are screwing up the country.

Let's hope they storm the place successfully tomorrow.

If people get hurt I hope its the skum who were seen shooting at the opposition and setting fire to motorbikes earlier this week.

I lost all hope that the police will at some point storm the place, as you said.

I think nothing is going to be done by police or army, and therefor the last option is for the prime minister to resign.

I know it's a sad situation to bow down in front of a despicable organization such as PAD and their almost unanimously condemned methods but the government is clearly not able to handle the situation anymore.