Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[grandpops]

this is terrorism:

ASTV Anchor Rutthawut Mitrmak takes cover as he hears gunshots and explosions outside the ASTV studios.

The ASTV studios were attacked at around 2 A.M. last night. M-79 bombs, which were followed by gunfire, were launched at A STVheadquarters while ASTV News1 was broadcasting live from its studio.

Anchor Nutthawut Mitrmak took cover under the desk as assailants opened fire into the studio and several other sections of the building. He was slightly injured by broken glass.

M-79 bombs were found to have caused extensive damage to the first and second floors of the building.

Assailants also gunned down windows and balconies on the third and fourth floors, where TOC's studios and editorial staff are housed. Minor damage was found in TOC's studio as well.

[video on thailandoutlook.tv]

Wow. And from such a realiable source. Im starting to believe in PAD now.

Thanks for the video link, we enjoyed it immensly. Look forward to seeing more soon.

[animatic]

With all the threads on TV re all the PAD's shenanigans the past few months it's become quite clear that the vast majority of posters here, despite priding themselves on their percieved in depth knowledge of Thailand, have seemingly no clue of what is playing out here, and why. I for one am very surprised, I would've expected that many would have learned to adjust the angle of view when looking at events here. The western angle simply produces reflections from the surface.

Maybe the Thai are right, farang don't understand Thai politics or culture at all, even after they've spent decades here.

I've noticed a precious few posters who seem to have a grasp on the underlying issues, most are scratching around on the surface, fooled and confused by the smoke and mirrors.

The threads remind me of people running around in a maze, babbling incoherently.

How to win friends and influence people

I have had very similar thoughts.

Particularly as insults and flames get hurled my way periodically.

I take some minor solace in the few who I find myself in repeated PM contact with,

who on occasional, actual face to face meeting seem also to be informed people in general.

Many seem to have not found that small corner to pull back the veil from their eyes.

Or :

"And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hammy the depressed.

Edited November 29, 2008 by animatic

[JoeInSurin]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

By stopping international air traffic they have have hurt innocent people and Thailands reputation by not letting them " to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection" as expected by visitors as stated in their passports. I hate PPP and think they should be dissolved if found guilty by legal means within Thai law. I also believe PAD has the right to protest within the means of the law. Don't you think that taking over the airport was going a little to far?

[jdinasia]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

By stopping international air traffic they have have hurt innocent people and Thailands reputation by not letting them " to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection" as expected by visitors as stated in their passports. I hate PPP and think they should be dissolved if found guilty by legal means within Thai law. I also believe PAD has the right to protest within the means of the law. Don't you think that taking over the airport was going a little to far?

So i take it you are backing off your "they are terrorists" stance?

[wxpwzrd]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

By stopping international air traffic they have have hurt innocent people and Thailands reputation by not letting them " to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection" as expected by visitors as stated in their passports. I hate PPP and think they should be dissolved if found guilty by legal means within Thai law. I also believe PAD has the right to protest within the means of the law. Don't you think that taking over the airport was going a little to far?

Now that is much more accurate than throwing terrorism around. They certainly went over the edge by occupying the airports, but sometime drastic problems call for drastic action. History will be the judge. None of us will.

[Koo82]

Everytime I read posts from people who have such hatred for Taxin or who show such dogmatic support for the PAD, or the PPP or anyone for that matter, I always wonder how those people affected your life so much, or how the other side would make it so much better.

I guess I am just curious to know how (from those with extreme opinions)...why did you become so extreme?

All I am trying to ask in my posts is: what is the need for average Thai people to damage or destroy their country either supporting or condemning any of the ruling parties?

We have gone through years when policemen abused us thinking we were uneducated stupid idiots. In fact we were among those who received the graduation certificates directly from the King.

Government officials asked us to submit this submit that, copy this copy that, change this change that when we dealt with paperworks. If we wanted things walk, under table money was the key.

Policemen stopped any vehicle they felt like. 100 Baht note was the solution.

Just too much to name.

When Khun Thaksin came up, he said these government officials are paid by public tax and their duty is to serve public. One example: if contractor submits the period completion report, government officers to check within 3 days and pay within 7 days. Failing to do that would bring them to deep shat. Khun Thaksin wanted money to circulate. Contractors having money will buy material to invest for next period. Material shops and manufacturers have income. Money from our tax helped the government to pay IMF loan the previous government caused. After they knocked Khun Thaksin, the Army government did not release or limit the fund: business was stuck. 2 years after Khun Thaksin went until Khun Samak came, Thai economy did not move.

Khun Thaksin talked with some countries nearby not to sell rice and rubber cheap when exporting.

He let people play the illegal lucky draw. Money received was sponsored the best student in each province to study in foreign countries.

Khun Thaksin did not allow traffic policemen to stop vehicles.

Itv channel had secret journalists to find evidences of corrupt government officials. Itv was shot long time ago. Same with anything having Khun Thaksin spirit with it. All have to go.

We Thais saw a huge difference the Thai Rak Thai Party made. They did a lot more for poor people.

People are jealous when Khun Thaksin took chances to bring $ to himself and his family. He did not play the dirty tea money game. He did not kick other parties on the back when saying nice things at face. He did not please those noble people and was too confident until those people kicked him out and changed laws, appointed judges, and dug what he had done in the past.

They created the one that if a member in the party is wrong, the whole party is closed and members involved are banned 5 years.

9 people who judged Khun Thaksin did not have assignment from the King, meaning they are not qualified to judge. But no one can do anything to them.

We have enough shesh when Army people or other parties was PM. Give us TRT/PPP/PT any day.

[Crushdepth]

this is terrorism:

ASTV Anchor Rutthawut Mitrmak takes cover as he hears gunshots and explosions outside the ASTV studios.

The ASTV studios were attacked at around 2 A.M. last night. M-79 bombs, which were followed by gunfire, were launched at A STVheadquarters while ASTV News1 was broadcasting live from its studio.

Anchor Nutthawut Mitrmak took cover under the desk as assailants opened fire into the studio and several other sections of the building. He was slightly injured by broken glass.

M-79 bombs were found to have caused extensive damage to the first and second floors of the building.

Assailants also gunned down windows and balconies on the third and fourth floors, where TOC's studios and editorial staff are housed. Minor damage was found in TOC's studio as well.

[video on thailandoutlook.tv]

Wow. And from such a realiable source. Im starting to believe in PAD now.

Thanks for the video link, we enjoyed it immensly. Look forward to seeing more soon.

It's true. The FAO building also took a bit of fire (but you can't blame them for that really).

[KireB]

Declaration of the European Unionon the situation in Thailand(Bangkok, 29 November 2008)

The European Union Ambassadors in Bangkok reiterate their serious concerns about the siege of the Bangkok airports, resulting in the disruption of international air traffic and already over 100 000 passengers being stranded. While respecting the right of protesting and without interfering in any way with the internal political debate in Thailand, the EU considers that these actions are totally inappropriate. They are seriously damaging the international image of Thailand.

We urge the protesters to evacuate the airports peacefully without delay in order to avoid a major consular crisis and its economic consequences for Thailand.

We call all parties in Thailand to takes steps to resolve the crisis and restore public order, respecting the rule of law and country’s democratic institutions.

finish quote.

Never mind, its only the EU saying this so they can ignore it, not that they will ever read it in PADland. Not like Sondhi has spoken or anything is it!

And Somchai still refuses to step down?

[JoeInSurin]

It would not be anything new to someone that would support terrorism. I will never be able to convince Al Qaida that 911 is justifiyed. And I will never convince you that seiging the airport is justifiyed. Radicals have their aggenda and the civilized world has to deal with them with force.

Pretty easy for you to make an accusation like that hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly I think you may be that shallow to actually believe what you just spewed... You sound more like a radical extremist considering it is your view or no view. I am not a radical; I am not a terrorist and certainly do not support. I am actually a US Citizen and would bleed on my flag to keep it red. Would you?

There is only one Joe I know here in Surin and it is me. Hardly anonymous. I am shallow and a radical by believing in law and order?? I am a US citizen also. Most people I know in the USA that would bleed on the flag would not support taking over airports and breaking the law. As a supporter of PAD and taking over airports how far do you think you and your PAD buddies would have got in taking over an airport in the USA? You would have been bleeding but not on a flag.

[ozzieovaseas]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

By stopping international air traffic they have have hurt innocent people and Thailands reputation by not letting them " to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection" as expected by visitors as stated in their passports. I hate PPP and think they should be dissolved if found guilty by legal means within Thai law. I also believe PAD has the right to protest within the means of the law. Don't you think that taking over the airport was going a little to far?

we all know the closure of the airport by force is going way to far and no doubt some of the better educated members of the PAD know what massive havoc they are reaping on the country,the economy and even their own livelehoods.For something this exreme to come about must only be due to issues that have been stewed over for many years

[lapamita]

Acceptance of benefit by a public official and advantage grant.

thas why i still support a change to a democratic goverment lead by democrats

privat agin from public loos,a nd who thailand cope with it

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/8/39368050.pdf

pad go on

[Wolfie]

Somchai fired the national police chief Gen. Patcharawat Wongsuwanbut, moving him to an inactive post, and replaced him with the police inspector-general, Maj. Gen. Prateep Tanprasert...

As far as I can tell, National Police Chief is an inactive post.

I agree - lol the guy didn't seem to do much did he?

[cmsally]

im with you redeyes! In a former post like this i was vertually called a terrorist myself for citing the same views as you posted.Its true that no foreighner has the right to take the moral highground in someone elses country about issues they know nothing about.These "yellowshirts" whom are being portrayed as terrorists are in fact ordinary bread and butter citizens taking part in a protest,much like other countries would hold a demonstration on wars,industrial relations,gay rights or logging..the only difference is that these people are a bit sick and tired of corruption on such a massive scale as we have never seen.

Three lanes of traffic were clogged today and it took 2 hours to get to a supermarket normally 20 minutes away.These people were going to "join the cause".Are they all terrorists?

I say at least the've got the balls to stand up and take on a system that makes a mockery of democracy.

That may be your opinion, it's not mine.....

Nor mine. Otherwise why would it be following the 3 month timeline I mentioned before. Almost end of schedule.

[cattoc]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customers are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff really like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped need to be paid for their efforts and investment in next harvest seed, fertilizer and harvet labour -they are now seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space - lst week 200 tons of fresh produce get returned to packing houses as it was turned back at the airport. Margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people - significant efforts in processing and investment in expensive packaging... to make things even more cruel- the farmers had lost about 3 - 4 week os sales due to continual rain resulting in crop loss - the product being sent to the airport this week was intended to recover from that previous weather related loss.... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishable produce every night ( I would be guessing but the total number involved in the total agro supply chain dependent on exporting their produce by air - could be 200-300,000. The export orchid market is also getting destroyed.. over 100 tons of product is normally going to prime overseas markets every day. Miss just one week of shipments and flower and supermarket buyers change suppliers and sometimes never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one) for those who purchsed ex works they will have lost money they would not be able to recover. Another crisis is looming - every day tons of time critical phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio-medical products.. that has all stopped. Product caught up in the backlog or in transit (can be worth tens of thousands of dollars for one typical consignment of vaccine) - will be lost.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the deep impact this is having - rather than who is causing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky) quite easy for me......

The Police are in a catch 22 situation. We hear they are told to go into and clear the crowds, knowing that a minorty are hostile armed agitators - certainly not sharing the idealogy of the PAD - you dont see reports of the lone female policewomen being beaten up in the streets (of which there have been at least 3 cases in the last few weeks)- which if anything inflame Police further to react. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriachal authority which transcends the government), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there).

Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear or maybe they can as I am not Thai). Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of the livihoods of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really damaging an economy that doesnt have much protection or resiliance. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excel at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering their normal happy lives.

Edited November 29, 2008 by cattoc

[KireB]

When Khun Thaksin came up, he said these government officials are paid by public tax and their duty is to serve public.

Thats what he said and the irony of it all is that his own tax-avoidance is the reason this mess started!

Thaksin, or khun Thaksin in your words, is a hypocrit first class and I seriously doubt your intelligence for not seeing this.

[wxpwzrd]

It would not be anything new to someone that would support terrorism. I will never be able to convince Al Qaida that 911 is justifiyed. And I will never convince you that seiging the airport is justifiyed. Radicals have their aggenda and the civilized world has to deal with them with force.

Pretty easy for you to make an accusation like that hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly I think you may be that shallow to actually believe what you just spewed... You sound more like a radical extremist considering it is your view or no view. I am not a radical; I am not a terrorist and certainly do not support. I am actually a US Citizen and would bleed on my flag to keep it red. Would you?

There is only one Joe I know here in Surin and it is me. Hardly anonymous. I am shallow and a radical by believing in law and order?? I am a US citizen also. Most people I know in the USA that would bleed on the flag would not support taking over airports and breaking the law. As a supporter of PAD and taking over airports how far do you think you and your PAD buddies would have got in taking over an airport in the USA? You would have been bleeding but not on a flag.

Dang Joe wrong again... I have no PAD buddies, I am not really even a staunch PAD supporter. I believe in the cause of removing corruptness in the government. Yes Joe, Thailand currently has a puppet government financed and owned by Tacky and his family. Will the next one be any better? Probably not, Tacky had enough money to buy the votes he needed, and apparently has his family deeply rooted in the system. But one fight at a time Joe.

[JoeInSurin]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

By stopping international air traffic they have have hurt innocent people and Thailands reputation by not letting them " to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection" as expected by visitors as stated in their passports. I hate PPP and think they should be dissolved if found guilty by legal means within Thai law. I also believe PAD has the right to protest within the means of the law. Don't you think that taking over the airport was going a little to far?

So i take it you are backing off your "they are terrorists" stance?

They are still terrorists but not on the scale of 911. So I take it you think PAD taking over the airport was going a bit to far?

[animatic]

Joe --- are you seriously quoting Wiki? It isn't terrorism. It is certainly civil disobedience! I am sure that the PAD has struck fear in the hearts of the PPP (soon to be dissolved) and into TRT and Thaksin (dissolved party and ex-PM convicted for abuse of power) but that doesn't make them terrorists. THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

Yes he is quoting wiki.

I used several well regarded sources earlier.

he neglects to add this apropo Wikie comment.

The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because

it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents,

and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.

Sounds descriptive of a LOT of comments I read here, and from 'Official' PPP mouth pieces.

Dehumanize your opposite philosophically; so as to not care when they are harmed.

When confronted with Mumbai and true terror at work, is is startling

and grindingly disingenuous to hear so many keep using this phrasology

on a bunch of people having a large protest sit in, with guards around

to prevent attack from the governments terror inducing branch in red shirts.

No angels certainly, practicing economic political warfare likely, but I would not be 'afraid

of a typical PAD protester' even now. Since I wouldn't come up attacking in a red shirt,

or approach in a threatening manner. I'd be more afraid of a grenade lobbed at them hitting me...

Some of the base, dogmatic, intolerance shown here, and for weeks on end,

has shown me too many people here, whom I would less like to encounter.

This doesn't defend PAD, it DOES attack the intolerance and miss use of

phrasology to dehumanize them, to make SOME of you feel better, if they get killed.

50\50, split for a coup in TV land... boggles the mind.

But seem a greater percentage would 'smash the muppets heads in' with no regrets.

[Kerryd]

Vote buying allegations can be taken care of in court just like in any other democratic nation. Please don't use that nonsense as an excuse for these "peaceful protests".

How can these allegations be taken care of in court, when the government is trying to rewrite the Constitution to make their actions legal (after the fact) ?

Not to mention that the government is also trying to impeach some of the judges on the court that is trying their electoral fraud case !

Is that not governmental interference in the judicial system ? Should the people just stand by and watch the government, their government, make these changes ? Should they not have any say in how their government operates ?

Apparently not according to some here. Some seem to think it's "to bad, so sad, wait a few years and hope that if there is another election, they may get a chance to vote them out".

The way this bunch of crooks have been operating, the chances of there ever being a fair election in the future are slim to none.

And do you people honestly think that if the government of your home country acted in the same manner, there wouldn't be protests ? And if there were protests, they'd all be peaceful love-ins that would't dream of interfering with, or inconveniencing anyone ?

Tell me you are not that naive.

We've seen the violent protests at things like G-8, APEC and World Bank meetings.

We've seen protests of the Olympic torch run.

We saw parts of Paris burn because two criminals were running from the police and killed themselves (I think they electrocuted themselves by accident as they were trying to get away).

We've had violent protests in Canada over Native land issues, APEC & G-8 meetings. During one such protest, those peaceful, loving, gentle protesters were trying to break down barricades so they could attack the leader of a foreign country as his car drove by. Imagine the damage that would have done to Canada's image if the leader of a foreigner country was murdered on Canadian soil.

Do you think those people would sit back idly if their government was doing the same things that this government has been trying to do ?

I highly doubt it, and from what I've seen of protests outside of Thailand, they tend to be much more violent and aggressive than this one has been.

[wineaux]

Pretty disappointing evening, the missus and I were hoping to see the terrorists rounded up tonight and some sensibility restored to the Kingdom. But no, chaos still reigns. Maybe tomorrow...

Our thoughts are with those injured by the pad

Lets hope those poor souls that have put their children in harms way finally see the light

[JoeInSurin]

It would not be anything new to someone that would support terrorism. I will never be able to convince Al Qaida that 911 is justifiyed. And I will never convince you that seiging the airport is justifiyed. Radicals have their aggenda and the civilized world has to deal with them with force.

Pretty easy for you to make an accusation like that hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly I think you may be that shallow to actually believe what you just spewed... You sound more like a radical extremist considering it is your view or no view. I am not a radical; I am not a terrorist and certainly do not support. I am actually a US Citizen and would bleed on my flag to keep it red. Would you?

There is only one Joe I know here in Surin and it is me. Hardly anonymous. I am shallow and a radical by believing in law and order?? I am a US citizen also. Most people I know in the USA that would bleed on the flag would not support taking over airports and breaking the law. As a supporter of PAD and taking over airports how far do you think you and your PAD buddies would have got in taking over an airport in the USA? You would have been bleeding but not on a flag.

Dang Joe wrong again... I have no PAD buddies, I am not really even a staunch PAD supporter. I believe in the cause of removing corruptness in the government. Yes Joe, Thailand currently has a puppet government financed and owned by Tacky and his family. Will the next one be any better? Probably not, Tacky had enough money to buy the votes he needed, and apparently has his family deeply rooted in the system. But one fight at a time Joe.

I agree with you 100%. I just think taking over the airport was going way to far. I believe in PPP being removed by civil means if found guilty. I'm from Virginia where are you from?

[rainman]

This is not a protest anymore, it's a deliberate attempt at ruining Thailand's image and especially economy. If they want to protest, there are plenty of streets and government buildings.

[cmsally]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customer are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped to pay for their efforts - are seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space. margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishableoproduce every night. The export orchid marker is also getting destroyed. Miss just one week of shipments and supermarket buyers change suppliers and never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one). Another crisi is looming - every day tons of phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio medical products.. that has all stopped.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the impact this is having - rather than who is casuing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky)... The Police are in a catch 22 situation. told to go into crowds that have a minorty of hostile armed agitators. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriage), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there). Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - that I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear. Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really hurting an economy that doesnt have much protection. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excell at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering our normal happy lives.

Thank you for that post, you are right , many businesses are being decimated. Amazing how it can have come to this.

[groovyc]

THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.

get your facts right, would you? please..

[brahmburgers]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customer are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped to pay for their efforts - are seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space. margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishableoproduce every night. The export orchid marker is also getting destroyed. Miss just one week of shipments and supermarket buyers change suppliers and never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one). Another crisi is looming - every day tons of phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio medical products.. that has all stopped.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the impact this is having - rather than who is casuing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky)... The Police are in a catch 22 situation. told to go into crowds that have a minorty of hostile armed agitators. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriage), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there). Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - that I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear. Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really hurting an economy that doesnt have much protection. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excell at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering our normal happy lives.

Interesting points from a person who is directly affected. It's sad to see so much waste of perishables, and loss of livelihoods. Are there animals/pets in transit which are adversely affected also? PAD should find a way to enable perishables and pharma products to continue to move. I know at least Thai Airways Shipping facilities are about 1 Km from the main terminal - and there are other shippers in separate facilities. Might it be possible to enable some essential flights?

Edited November 29, 2008 by brahmburgers

[grandpops]

I'm leaving this post until tomorrow unless I see it kick off on TV in the bar later.

Post of the day to Koo82. EDIT and CATTOC. Just seen it but very good post.

This is how many of my Thai friend see the situation as well. I have heard thias defend Thaksin very strongly along these same lines personally.

He really was not the villain they set him up as. I remember the stagnant totally corrupt elitist set ups of the 90's. The vast majority of falangs on this board have no idea of Thailand. No idea of how the Army and elite have hamstrung this Government from even before it was elected. It's sickening, but why try and convince those that think a PAD world would be better. Perhaps they are better in ignorant bliss.

This "educated" clique use the rest of the country (particularly the north) as a source of cheap prostitutes, cheap workers and cheap commodities that they can sell on at vastly inflated prices. They are the parasites of Thailand and hopefully on the way out, even if PAD do delay this process for a bit longer.

Any of the annoying PAD sheep who wants a source or proof of this can get it easily. Just go round the beer bars, massage shops, cheap foodcarts, hawkers, litter collectors, maids, cleaners, hotel security guards, carpark attendants, street cleaners, gardeners etc. Ask them where they come from!! It's almost never Bangkok.

Think more Robin Hood when you think of Thaksin and careful what you wish for! He did a lot of things good for the people of the country that many falangs never get to meet.... the real rural working thais, not the ones that tell them they are handsome every five minutes.

Thanks Koo82

Edited November 29, 2008 by grandpops

[lannarebirth]

When Khun Thaksin came up, he said these government officials are paid by public tax and their duty is to serve public.

Thats what he said and the irony of it all is that his own tax-avoidance is the reason this mess started!

Thaksin, or khun Thaksin in your words, is a hypocrit first class and I seriously doubt your intelligence for not seeing this.

Talk is cheap isn't it? From my own personal experience, the only time I have ever had to pay a bribe (and not a small one) to a public official, was under the Thaksin administration, here in Chiang Mai. I was not looking for special favors but only paying to get the official to do the job the government was already paying him to do.

[frodo]

We have gone through years when policemen abused us thinking we were uneducated stupid idiots. In fact we were among those who received the graduation certificates directly from the King.

Government officials asked us to submit this submit that, copy this copy that, change this change that when we dealt with paperworks. If we wanted things walk, under table money was the key.

Policemen stopped any vehicle they felt like. 100 Baht note was the solution.

Just too much to name.

When Khun Thaksin came up, he said these government officials are paid by public tax and their duty is to serve public. One example: if contractor submits the period completion report, government officers to check within 3 days and pay within 7 days. Failing to do that would bring them to deep shat. Khun Thaksin wanted money to circulate. Contractors having money will buy material to invest for next period. Material shops and manufacturers have income. Money from our tax helped the government to pay IMF loan the previous government caused. After they knocked Khun Thaksin, the Army government did not release or limit the fund: business was stuck. 2 years after Khun Thaksin went until Khun Samak came, Thai economy did not move.

Khun Thaksin talked with some countries nearby not to sell rice and rubber cheap when exporting.

He let people play the illegal lucky draw. Money received was sponsored the best student in each province to study in foreign countries.

Khun Thaksin did not allow traffic policemen to stop vehicles.

Itv channel had secret journalists to find evidences of corrupt government officials. Itv was shot long time ago. Same with anything having Khun Thaksin spirit with it. All have to go.

We Thais saw a huge difference the Thai Rak Thai Party made. They did a lot more for poor people.

People are jealous when Khun Thaksin took chances to bring $ to himself and his family. He did not play the dirty tea money game. He did not kick other parties on the back when saying nice things at face. He did not please those noble people and was too confident until those people kicked him out and changed laws, appointed judges, and dug what he had done in the past.

They created the one that if a member in the party is wrong, the whole party is closed and members involved are banned 5 years.

9 people who judged Khun Thaksin did not have assignment from the King, meaning they are not qualified to judge. But no one can do anything to them.

We have enough shesh when Army people or other parties was PM. Give us TRT/PPP/PT any day.

Yes, we all know what an honest man Thaksin was:

Corruption/conflict of interests- Changed concessions on mobile phone business as excise tax

- Created satellite business to gain promotion from Board of Investment

- Corruption at Suvarnabhumi Airport and the purchase of CTX bomb detection scanners

- Corruption in the construction of railway Airport Link

- Lack of transparency in privatisation of state enterprises

- Media interference

Abuse of power- Appointed family, relatives, close aides to highranking positions of the state

- Used state budget without seeking approval from the House in projects to promote government popularity

- Abuse of power by negotiating with foreign countries for the interest of themselves (Exim bank loans)

- Abuse of power by instructing state agencies to investigate assets of government opponents

Infringe on ethics and moral integrity of country leader- Sold satellite concession and television station to a foreign country

- Evaded taxes from share sale

Interference in political check system- Interfered with the Senate which appointed independent agencies that checked the government

- Interfered with the appointment of Election Commission, Constitution Court judge and National Counter Corruption Commission and AuditorGeneral

Policy flaws that led to human rights violation- Extrajudicial killing of drug suspects

- Policy mismanagement and abuse of power in solving violence in the south

Created rift and destroyed unity of the public and instigating confrontation- Blocked information that checked the government and the prime minister

- Created confrontation between anti and pro government supporters.

--The Nation 2006-11-21

[jdinasia]

Sorry Joe ... you still don't get it! It isn't terrorism. Terrorism is lobbing grenades in the dark ... Terrorism is firing military ordinance containing RDX into a crowd while not even allowing them an area to escape etc etc etc

Civil disobedience IS inconvenient .... it is meant to be! Do I wish they had found another way? Yes! has this worked so far? Yes! (The government has not been able to illegally change the constitution and is apparently stuck until they get dissolved.) Do I wish the Democrats would resign en-masse forcing snap elections? YES! Do I understand why they do not? Yes! (They don't want to appear to be on PAD's side) Is this a royalist vs anti-royalist end game? Yes! (well I hope it is the end-game)

[Koo82]

I'm not convinced that Khun Thaksin was corrupt.

And you also believe the world is flat not round, and that man landing on the moon was just a hoax, right???

It wasn't PAD who launched a half dozen or so criminal corruption cases again Thaksin.... It was Thai government prosecutors. It wasn't PAD who convicted Thaksin in the first case and sentenced him to two years in jail. It was Thai courts and judges.

Only one case so far? His wife bought a land. He signed because he was her husband. Corruption what?