Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[jts-khorat]

You say the airport takeover was not a peaceful protest....How many shots were fired, how many bombs were dropped, how many lives were taken???

It is not only the dead body count to measure how far off this is froma peaceful protest; the Bangkok Post notes here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132372

Deputy Prime Minister for economics Olarn Chaipravat said the government may have to pay about one billion baht to about 500,000 stranded Thais and foreigners at Suvarnabhumi airport, or about 2,000 baht per person a day.

Because Suvarnabhumi airport was under siege by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), more unemployment in the tourism sector would arise because the number of tourist arrivals next year would plunge, according to Mr Olarn.

The deputy premier said the initial forecast estimated 13.5 million tourists would travel to Thailand in 2009, but the figure would definitely drop due to the current political situation.

As a result, about one million people working in hotels, restaurants and other tourism-related businesses could be laid off next year, Mr Olarn said.

[GizmoBKK]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

One of the more valuable comments in this thread; well said!

Meanwhile Suvarnabhumi remains closed and i receive this bangkokpost sms (no further comments on their website, yet):

The Airports of Thailand (AOT) announced that Suvarnabhumi airport will be closed until 6 p.m. Monday.

I guess they mean Monday Dec 1... Let's hope for everybody's sake they are right and it will not take longer than this.

Edited November 29, 2008 by GizmoBKK

[pauls2979]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

One of the more valuable comments in this thread; well said!

Meanwhile Suvarnabhumi remains closed and i receive this bangkokpost sms (no further comments on their website, yet):

The Airports of Thailand (AOT) announced that Suvarnabhumi airport will be closed until 6 p.m. Monday.

I guess they mean Monday Dec 1... Let's hope for everybody's sake they are right and it will not take longer than this.

agree , fab post ,

[FatherF]

Just seen this on SKY News,

"Anti-government protesters in Thailand have taken a police officer captive as tensions at an airport standoff escalate."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...kpoint_Tensions

Now what happens?

FF

[Birger]

Manager: Police Open Fire at Suvarnabhumi PAD Protesters

ASTV Manager Online reported that police have fired shots at PAD protesters who are gathering at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

The news agency reported that at 9.23 a.m. this morning more than 200 police officers have moved in on the PAD protesters who are gathering at Suvarnabhumi Airport. The police have reportedly fired shots at the protesters near Gate No. 4 of the passenger terminal.

In a another development, at 9.40 a.m., riot police units have set up a police checkpoint and used a mobile jail unit to block off 1 lane of traffic leading to the Suvarnabhumi Airport. More than 100 riot police officers are stationed at the checkpoint.

Source: Thailand Outlook - 29 November 2008

This protesters have been doing this nonsense for a while now and unfortunately it just getting worse. Let's say that it should be a re-election and the same government was elected again should they accept that ? What i mean is that this government been elected 2 times in a row and they have to accept the fact that the majority of the people want this government. What exactly are their demands ? are their demands realistic and what is their alternative. What government do they want if the could decide ?

[magisterludi]

First 6pm Saturday, next 6pm Monday...how about they just stop speculating. Sigh.

[lannarebirth]

I am in no way going to say I have captured the Thai perspective. What I will say is that there are lot of people utterly sick and tired of the whole thing including PAD, UDD, government and Thaksin and Sondhi. People writing on here tend to have a politicsal persuasion. A lot of ordinary people dont care or have time or inclination to care about politics.

Yes, that's the problem.

[GizmoBKK]

First 6pm Saturday, next 6pm Monday...how about they just stop speculating. Sigh.

For Saturday, they said "Saturday 6 pm the earliest". For the most recent announcement, they skipped that. ;-)

[HYENA]

Just seen this on SKY News,

"Anti-government protesters in Thailand have taken a police officer captive as tensions at an airport standoff escalate."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...kpoint_Tensions

Now what happens?

FF

Stepping into the second definition of terrorism. Thaiksin did do a lot for the poor which pissed off the upper class because they want the cake...but he also robbed the country in a terrible way. My wife says, "They all do that but we love him because he give us something no one give before...now my mom can go to hospital when she sick and we not have to sell land". He mad a difference in the lives of those where finding the next meal was the #1 priority. Put it this way, I had to settle some debts on my first visit because their crop didn't do so well (no money for...anything) and neighbors had to feed them for an enitre year. I gladly went fromneighbor to neighbor and paid off their debts. Not much but when you're thinking, "I'm paying because someone prevented these nice people from starving 2 years ago"...really made me think about people and wha'ts really important. So, corrupt as they ALL are, Thaiksin (however you spell it, I'm sure I'm missing a few H's since Thais love their H's in translaction) cared about the poor...no one cares if it was to buy votes or the purpose because they got something they never had. Given an even playing field (corrption in THai politics), the Isaan people love Thaiksin and they jsut want someone else to look after their interests, too. THey were ecstatic for once they had a leader who didn't talk them down and look down upon them only because of the situation in which they were born through no fault of their own.

Given all equal and if they're all going to stay corrupt, only for the good Isaan people, bring Thaiksin back! He was not democratic and he had human rights violations, as well...I'm only talking about the one point; benefit to the poorest of the poor. Someone needs to come in and..blah, blah, blah...never happen so might as well not worry about it...just hping for some swife action to bring money to Thailand

[sezze]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Thailand was 14th most dangerous places in the world before this month.Thailand has worked hard to earn the reputation of being dishonest..copyrights, freedom of speech, consistently idiotic politics where overthrowing an government (unheard of in this day and age) is a pastime...Thailand has always had a bad reputation. Only because I''m connected with Thailand do I see things completely different than just last year. Of all countries, Thailand was one of the lowest on my respect list...known for rampant prostitution, scams and lies. People are shocked when I reveal I've got a Thai wife...they ask some interesting questions...then when they ask again, they ask how my Taiwan wife is doing? Not much is known about Thailand in the mainstream except for our little niche here. This could be a forum from Cyprus for all anyone knows and we'd think the news in Cyprus was affecting everyone but in all truth, national news may mention in passing but India is the interested story of the week...India has come a long way from where it has been and actually has a dependable workforce and is trying to step up as a regional world power. Thailand has the money but it is all squandered. My first time there, I was predicting in 5 years, Thailand will be the Hollywood (only referring to wealth, not the real weirdos there) of Asia...but after I saw how deep seated the corruption was from tip top to the lowest of the low, I now realize why I still can get so many baht with the USD and this will continue for some time. Japan, on the other hand has handled things differently, so has Taiwan and South Korea...but there's Thailand making money on sex tourism as a larg percent of GDP...that's what Thailand is known for....lack of morals, ethics and rule of law and rule of international law...the copycat capital of the world (even though China does it more, Thailand has the reputation because of its size and scale of copycats and lack of originality. Anything made worthy of money, Thais will copy and sell for a buck...not a good reputation and it's quite unfortunate. You can see people in stores picking something up, seeing a "made in Thailand" stamp on it, then the value goes down and it sits on the shelf likely being a copycat of an original idea or style. What have Thais historically brought to the world? Famous ingenuity, inventions? Nope, just professional mimics selling their family members for cash. Anything for a buck.

I don't like it now that I love the people there (minus the snooty old money and intolerably prejudice caste system believers)

Unfortunately all our president and most leaders have said is it's unfortunate or a quick one sentence condemnation of what's happening and that's that. "This is bad, they should stop" seems all any big leaders have to say because not many on the world stage care, unfortunately. It would be nice to see Thailand get a reputation--not worried about losing it any more than it already has...never had a good one to start. Think about how you felt, your opinions, your friends before you had the idea to visit (if there are any who had no contact prior to certain later point in life). Thailand likely meant nothing except cool pad thai when you could find a place that made it....Thai food is great...other than that, how's Taiwan?

It is very harsh how you say it but there is more then a hinge of thruth in it . . That is also why corruption is on every scale of this society . Wheather you believe it or not , that indeed is what Thailand is known for . Nice beaches and a good nightlife ( or let us say prostitutionnetwork ) together with marvellous temples . They are not known in the world for inventions of any kind and even myself cannot think of any invention being Thailands original . However , this is a 3th world country and things like this are normal for a 3th world country . Thailand is struggling to get out of 3th world country and was succeeding due to all the industries mentioned above .This brought Western people in and together with their money there was a good connection status being build ( export and transport ) . That together with more and more people going there and the effort of a very succesfull businessman ( Thaksin was a very succesfull one ) , who brought in big international companies the country was booming . Now they are being pushed back in and will stay there again for how long ... nobody knows .

[endure]

Flaming and insulting posts have been removed. Read the rules.

[garyh]

First 6pm Saturday, next 6pm Monday...how about they just stop speculating. Sigh.

For Saturday, they said "Saturday 6 pm the earliest". For the most recent announcement, they skipped that. ;-)

Was that this Saturday or the next one???????????/

[NanLaew]

Nice to see the PAD guys on national TV abducting a guy and driving away in a car with false red cross decals.

Lot's of women and children enlisted but just like the Muslim extremists, it's just handy to have them as a major part of the 'human shield'. Tactics first employed by a failed and executed despot but just as deplorable.

PAD said they would relinquish Government House when Samak stepped down. They didn't.

The PM has offered direct negotiations. PAD refuses to open a dialog.

Decent folks these PAD leaders, eh?

You PAD supporters deserve all the sh!t that is coming down on your heads.

Edited November 29, 2008 by NanLaew

[Birger]

This protesters have been doing this nonsense for a while now and unfortunately it just getting worse. Let's say that it should be a re-election and the same government was elected again should they accept that ? What i mean is that this government been elected 2 times in a row and they have to accept the fact that the majority of the people want this government. What exactly are their demands ? are their demands realistic and what is their alternative. What government do they want if they could decide ?

[Robski]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Final battle in Bangkok a Pyrrhic victory

By Awzar Thi

Column: Rule of LordsPublished: November 27, 2008

(snip)

The alliance has been operating an armed and dangerous security force with impunity, yet its leaders have over the last few months moved around freely, apparently without fear that any of Thailand’s quarter-of-a-million police officers will make an arrest. They have refused investigators access to crime scenes in premises that they have occupied. They have illegally detained other citizens, and have declined to negotiate for the return of public utilities and facilities. Yet they have been permitted to carry on.

(snip)

The irony is that while the alliance has emerged as the greatest threat to Thailand’s institutional order in modern times, it is a threat that is coming not from without but from within that order. While other countries are concerned with the danger of terrorist attack or political violence orchestrated against the state from outside, it is the super-conservative elements at the heart of the state that are responsible for the havoc being wreaked in Bangkok today.

(snip)

Bravo. Excellent article. So sad but true.

Yes an excellent article, thanks for posting.

The two paragraphs I've highlighted, get right to the heart of the matter.

This is terrorism from within the establishment.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Robski

[ukrules]

Whilst appreciating points made herein, I do recall my personal experiences crossing, or not, the Channel, when the transport workers, apparently predominantly French truckers, would blockade Le Harve and the Normandy ports often to bring pressure for their local political issues. The police there often seemed loath to proactively deal with this interruption to commerce and passengers either.

Just a thought/memory.

Regards

/edit typo//

Yeah, I've lived in France a while and experienced the french style of protests, which often involves unrelated people. I don't really appreciate that either. I've not seen them take over an airport in Paris, though.

Oh yes ! Union strikes shutting down airports are common all over Europe. Preferably during the peak holiday season, to give their demand more power. Rings a bell?

Yes it does ring a bell ... and how long do these strike take to be solved ?? 1 day max . And this is not a strike ... a strike is from employees working there , not a mob taking over a airport because this is a serious break in every security measure you can have . This is not aimed at the government directly .. this is aimed at the millions of people travelling around the world and at business people who need to travel for it . I said it before ... the government house .. no problem ... that is a reasonable place to go for action airports/harbours/business centres ... out of the question

A few years ago there was a long blockade of oil refinery / distribution depots in England which pretty much brought the entire country to a halt, not just a couple of airports like we have here.

We should be thankful they didn't do this in Thailand (yet) as they could do it quite easily. Action like this affects everything, then you have panic buying in the stores, etc.

Edited November 29, 2008 by ukrules

[magisterludi]

First 6pm Saturday, next 6pm Monday...how about they just stop speculating. Sigh.

For Saturday, they said "Saturday 6 pm the earliest". For the most recent announcement, they skipped that. ;-)

I hope you're right I've made reservations for Thursday hoping that will be long enough, but I don't want to keep my hopes up too much yet.

[Onyxia]

Nice to see the PAD guys on national TV abducting a guy and driving away in a car with false red cross decals.

Lot's of women and children enlisted but just like the Muslim extremists, it's just handy to have them as a major part of the 'human shield'. Tactics first employed by a failed and executed despot but just as deplorable.

PAD said they would relinquish Government House when Samak stepped down. They didn't.

The PM has offered direct negotiations. PAD refuses to open a dialog.

Decent folks these PAD leaders, eh?

You PAD supporters deserve all the sh!t that is coming down on your heads.

Yes, almost as nice as seeing a bunch of red shirts pull an elderly man from his car, beat him tell he is unconscious then proceed to execute him by shooting him in the head.

Thaksin said he wasn't involved in politics anymore. LIE

Police continue to let the astv station get attacked.

Police lie about the weapons they used on oct 7 to disperse the crowd. Police try to cover there tracks by saying the people blew themselves up, even after the evidence showed them to be lying.

Great government you have, eh?

[yadetout]

Some new videos at the end of this post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chaos-Bangkok-t225194.html

[Gravelrash]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

One of the more valuable comments in this thread; well said!

Meanwhile Suvarnabhumi remains closed and i receive this bangkokpost sms (no further comments on their website, yet):

The Airports of Thailand (AOT) announced that Suvarnabhumi airport will be closed until 6 p.m. Monday.

I guess they mean Monday Dec 1... Let's hope for everybody's sake they are right and it will not take longer than this.

agree , fab post ,

Agree also, but few of the PAD sheep here here will agree. But, but, but it is worth destroying the country because Taksin did.....

[grandpops]

Back on OT. I suggest in future, nobody reply to the troll posts supporting PAD.

Lets stick to the task in hand.

This report is every where in the world and came on here late last night from another source.

Fingers on the pulse everywhere in the world except here in Thailand in the upper echalons of Thai society.

This protest as we know is a "Coup by Cowardice" that has failed. Government is safe in Chaig Mai and more entrenched than PAD are at the airport.

Looks like Thaksin is showing his hand now as the strong leader this country needs.

If the Army clear out PAD, the country will more to the final stages of the Business Elite controlling Thailand.

If the Army Coup, it will lead to civil war that will finish the Business Elite controlling the Thailand.

There is no win for them now whatever happens. They have shown their hand to the world and have no support whatsoever.

Almost every press report mentions them as "so called" PAD or "the ironically named" PAD or mentions the disparity between their partys name and their aims.

[jaloochapurr]

Just got a notice from United Parcel Service,sent a package to my children in a hilltribe in Chiang Mai.

Due to Civil Unrest in Thailand we are unable at this time to deliver package.

Can one imagine the amount of cargo that is being backed up due to all this.This does not look good for Thailand.

Any other place in the world would not stand for a group of people stopping all airport traffic. The bullets would of been flying long before now.

Could you imagine what would happen if this was tried in London or New York?

[wxpwzrd]

Back on OT. I suggest in future, nobody reply to the troll posts supporting PAD.

<SNIPPED>

Wow that is bold. So you are saying that people supporting PAD here are trolls? If this is not what you are saying, please clarify. Because this sounds a little elitist on your part.

<edited for bad spelling>

Edited November 29, 2008 by wxpwzrd

[dave9988]

How sad and hopeless. The government is trying to end things peacefully but that's been proven ineffective and when they attempt to use force, the police back off because of fear. Is it not a police officers job to enforce and apprehend those who break the law? The government is unstable without support from the army and police force. It's time someone seriously step in and take charge. Get the united nations involved or something, it's not only a Thailand but a world issue. There are people from other countries stranded and this protest will only tempt other anti-government groups in other countries around to world to put on the same show... Like they say in sports, "THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE"

Well nice try at that spin, but let us look at facts:

1. The new gorilla in the corner is the court, who announced at 3 PM Friday, it would accelerate the corruption ruling against the government currently in power including the PM.

2. In that announcement it had adequate evidence to rule. It would not required the 30 some statements from the leaders. They could use a written input if desired by Tuesday morning at 11:00 AM.

3. Once they find the PPP and the other 2 parties were corrupt in election process they are out, (This is assuming that indeed they have solid evidence of vote buying etc..) (Even a statement from the PPP states the evidence is strong), and new elections will be forthcoming.

4. Which group of police, military, etc wants to follow the orders of a government that probably will not be around this time next week?

All the talk by the defenders of the PPP of being the democratically elected government of Thailand will be shown to be ???

The PAD will have saved face, and will disapear, as they are not the ones trying to gain power, just resist corruption that has been an integral part of Thai politics since 1932 when the Monarchy was abolished.

4.

So then why did they need to close the airport if this judge is going to solve everything?

[Plus]

but it is worth destroying the country because Taksin did.....

Not did, Gravelash, he WILL, if they don't stop him.

A week without an airport is nothing compaing to revolution into Republic of Thailand.

[HYENA]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Thailand was 14th most dangerous places in the world before this month.Thailand has worked hard to earn the reputation of being dishonest..copyrights, freedom of speech, consistently idiotic politics where overthrowing an government (unheard of in this day and age) is a pastime...Thailand has always had a bad reputation. Only because I''m connected with Thailand do I see things completely different than just last year. Of all countries, Thailand was one of the lowest on my respect list...known for rampant prostitution, scams and lies. People are shocked when I reveal I've got a Thai wife...they ask some interesting questions...then when they ask again, they ask how my Taiwan wife is doing? Not much is known about Thailand in the mainstream except for our little niche here. This could be a forum from Cyprus for all anyone knows and we'd think the news in Cyprus was affecting everyone but in all truth, national news may mention in passing but India is the interested story of the week...India has come a long way from where it has been and actually has a dependable workforce and is trying to step up as a regional world power. Thailand has the money but it is all squandered. My first time there, I was predicting in 5 years, Thailand will be the Hollywood (only referring to wealth, not the real weirdos there) of Asia...but after I saw how deep seated the corruption was from tip top to the lowest of the low, I now realize why I still can get so many baht with the USD and this will continue for some time. Japan, on the other hand has handled things differently, so has Taiwan and South Korea...but there's Thailand making money on sex tourism as a larg percent of GDP...that's what Thailand is known for....lack of morals, ethics and rule of law and rule of international law...the copycat capital of the world (even though China does it more, Thailand has the reputation because of its size and scale of copycats and lack of originality. Anything made worthy of money, Thais will copy and sell for a buck...not a good reputation and it's quite unfortunate. You can see people in stores picking something up, seeing a "made in Thailand" stamp on it, then the value goes down and it sits on the shelf likely being a copycat of an original idea or style. What have Thais historically brought to the world? Famous ingenuity, inventions? Nope, just professional mimics selling their family members for cash. Anything for a buck.

I don't like it now that I love the people there (minus the snooty old money and intolerably prejudice caste system believers)

Unfortunately all our president and most leaders have said is it's unfortunate or a quick one sentence condemnation of what's happening and that's that. "This is bad, they should stop" seems all any big leaders have to say because not many on the world stage care, unfortunately. It would be nice to see Thailand get a reputation--not worried about losing it any more than it already has...never had a good one to start. Think about how you felt, your opinions, your friends before you had the idea to visit (if there are any who had no contact prior to certain later point in life). Thailand likely meant nothing except cool pad thai when you could find a place that made it....Thai food is great...other than that, how's Taiwan?

It is very harsh how you say it but there is more then a hinge of thruth in it . . That is also why corruption is on every scale of this society . Wheather you believe it or not , that indeed is what Thailand is known for . Nice beaches and a good nightlife ( or let us say prostitutionnetwork ) together with marvellous temples . They are not known in the world for inventions of any kind and even myself cannot think of any invention being Thailands original . However , this is a 3th world country and things like this are normal for a 3th world country . Thailand is struggling to get out of 3th world country and was succeeding due to all the industries mentioned above .This brought Western people in and together with their money there was a good connection status being build ( export and transport ) . That together with more and more people going there and the effort of a very succesfull businessman ( Thaksin was a very succesfull one ) , who brought in big international companies the country was booming . Now they are being pushed back in and will stay there again for how long ... nobody knows .

I don't mean to sound harsh...I am just frustrated battling opinions similar to my former opinion (nothing irritates you more than your former self). Now I have a soft spot for my new family who happen to be dirt poor and my heart goes out to them. I cannot imagine what they feel and I only wish I made a lot of money to help them all out. I can keep them fed, but I'd like to do so much more than that and I am doing with a lot less in order to change their lives for the better. I can understand why people rob, steal, sell themselves, etc for their family because my feelings are just 1% of what their blood families feel. I eat cheap food because buying something expensive, even any luxury means that's money I don't have to help my new family. I don't like it one bit but I understand why people do what they do. Reputations, it's all so very sad and Thailand by every right should be far more developed than it is...I'm not talking about the pretty buildings and the wealthy people who have likely generations ago gotten wealthy by connections to some corrupt government of the past (seems they pay off all their family and friends, that's how you succeed in Thailand).

Now I see a class warfare where the old money and those who have money to go to nice schools dislike those who had to leave school in 5th grade to work in the rice fields or their families would starve...then comes farang with more money than they've seen in a lifetime throwing it like it's candy! I can understand the desperation and wanting to do SOMETHING to just get a leg up, get ahead...and when it comes to copyrights, ethics, morals, forget it! They want to help their family eat and maybe their children have and education and their children to have maybe a small business...

One reason I love Thai people (not the snooty culture but the real jai dee) is because they have family cohesiveness I've never seen in my country. I love them as my own blood, more than my own family because my own family...well, put it this way; yesterday was Thanksgiving and I was home alone. Thanksgiving is the American #1 family holiday. What did I do? I read and worried about what's happening in Thailand half a world away from the people I love. My family doesn't care so a marriage will benefit me because I get a family again! I HATE the reputation Thailand has and they've done it to themselves. My wife, her region and her family have nothing to do with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic Thais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic Thais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this out loud and can look themselves in the mirror that night and claim they are Buddhist people! I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, you'll understand this term).

My resentment comes from good hearted people just trying to get by and feed their families, keep them out of poverty and they're treated like sh*T. No wonder they want to leave their country! They'll never have any opportunity with such prejudice. I can't even do business with a company because they're busy asking her why she has money and what does she do for money, how she got their number, what is she doing with a phone...when all she wants to do is ask about pricing for wholesale shoes for export to America...she can't even get that far because these people are so horribly nasty and outwardly so...so I can't do any business through her because they give her hel_l and their snobby attitude is more important than making money and doing business. Nice Buddhist people! Now I have to fly there myself just to talk to these stuck up snooty ethnic Thais when she's right there a taxi ride away and can't facilitate some business so I can try to make a little more money to send to her poor family...

It took some pushing to get her to tell me about this (and how it hurts her and seems embarrass her reinforcing society's demand that she feel low and act low) but she had to tell me why she can't go to this business and price some crates of shoes and ship them to me. This, to me is unbelievable but the resentment is deep and horrible from Thai to Thai. She calls herself Thai, they don't consider her truly Thai. Not many will tell you this because it is terribly humiliating. Some of you may be insulated, being married to a Thai with money...or an ethnic Thai. I see things from a different point of view, a different Thailand than some and I don't like what I see. I told her at least in my country she's the same as everyone else...we even elected a black president, so skin color matters less than it ever has. I told her dark skin is beautiful but everyone wants to be white while the farangs want to be dark. Thailand "land of the free" is just another lie of many...put on a good face and treat your brother/sister with disdain. I hope Thailand continues its struggles until something clicks. This is why I feel so harsh about Thailand; it's a different Thailand than many may know.

Edited November 29, 2008 by HYENA

[dave9988]

Q.1

What is the likelyhood of PPP being disbanded?

Q.2

After they are disbanded, won't a government with the same ideology be elected again? Some of ThaiVisa seem to believe that without vote buying the PPP wouldn't be in power but they won overwhelmingly, vote buying aside they are the party that the majority of Thai people want in power.

Q.3

Sondi says PAD will leave after Dec 2 if PPP is disbanded... then why is PAD doing what they are doing now? Why are they causing this chaos?

[grandpops]

First 6pm Saturday, next 6pm Monday...how about they just stop speculating. Sigh.

For Saturday, they said "Saturday 6 pm the earliest". For the most recent announcement, they skipped that. ;-)

I hope you're right I've made reservations for Thursday hoping that will be long enough, but I don't want to keep my hopes up too much yet.

They are giving them the jitters. Keeping em awake and nicely of them now, they are trapped at the airport by the police. Trapped by their own stupidity.

So what! Many Thai businesses and leaders turning up on TV here, Al Jazeera, CNN, BBC complaining about massive multi billion baht losses to the freight services.

Millions of baht worth of perishables to be thrown away including flowers, seafood and fruit that were being exported. So if any Educated Thai can make a forward prediction, the Export industry in Thailand is going to start feeling the pinch NOW

The Seafood industry when the cheques for the food at the airport don't arrive. Etc.

This educated elite may find it a better idea to remove PAD and have Thaksin back at the helm. This is where he would have been if they hadn't gerrymandered his removal through the courts.

PAD haters. Forget the gibes about convictions etc. They don't count if the Judge was put in power soley to convict him.

[Plus]

So then why did they need to close the airport if this judge is going to solve everything?

They seized the ariport three days before the schedule announcement, and we still don't know which way the verdict will go, and when. Usually it takes something like two weeks after closing statements though this time it might come as early as on the next day.

Still, the case is about vote buying, the protests are about government being Thaksin's puppet - two entirely different things.

[andersonat]

Here's some things that have been bothering me ...

Q: Is it (or is it not) the task of the Thai Armed Forces ( - and that includes the Thai Army) to defend the constitution of Thailand ?

Specifically, is it not the task of the Head of the Army to obey the instructions of the Head of the Government ?

- Or is the Head of the Thai Army allowed to pick-and-choose which instruction he'd like to carry out ?

.

The Prime Minister should sack the Head of the Army *immediately* and shut down the demonstrations using all of the forces of law and order available to the Government.

And if the PAD would like to content the next election, they'll get their chance. [Note: The PAD are *not* a political-party who have a mandate from the Thai populace - they are (currently) Anarchists].

Q: How many people voted for the PPP in the last election ?

Q: How many supporters does the PAD have ?

[Q: How does anyone know how many supporters the PAD have ?]

Q: From whom ***exactly*** does the PAD receive its financial support ???

Q: How many policeman, soldiers, sailors, air-force-personnel are there in Thailand ?

Q: What are they all doing this weekend ?

- Don't accuse the Prime Minister of cowardice when officer+soldiers *with guns* are hiding in their barracks.

Q: Why isn't the Baht going through the floor on the Currency Markets ? The currency is still very strong !

.